why are Hindus following Abrahamin religious practice

[vasumathi]

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Cremation is a good custom as it saves space and destroys thebacteria if ant in the deadbody. Most of the BRAHNINICAL PRACTICES ARE BASED ON SCIENCE ONLY WITH A RELIGIOUS COLOUR.
If the trend is an indication, even the nonhindus have to resort to burial as there is much pressure on space. Burial has its sentimental approach only.
sundararajan.

 

[kunjuppu]

just to give you another point, to reflect vasumathi mention of 'sentimentality'.

someone known to us lost his only son 21 years old in a car accident night driving sober no alcohol from bangalore to chennai while driving with friends. all were teetotalers, and i wish to emphasize that. also no drugs as these were good kids.

a rogue lorry driven by the cleaner hit them head on and the son was instantly killed.

the shocked parents, ofcourse, went through the cremation, more in state of shock than anything else.

now, about 10 years later, the immense wealthy parents, live with this grief which appears to never heal.

the father, in a poignant chat with me, a while back, mentioned, that instead of blindly following the tradition, he wished he had buried his son, in one of his (father's) estates.

it appears that the father and son were the best of friends. he feels now that atleast he would have had the consolation of sitting next to his tomb, and getting the feel of him, chat with him, and be able to grieve. for the father, has still not been able to find a mode to grieve.

ஆறாத புண் ! what to do? i had no consolation for the father. one could only sit and listen. even to open my mouth, appeared a violation

which is why, when people come up with rules, i have an issue re exceptions. there is always circumstances which may justify doing things in violation of tradition. there are those who live by the tradition, and consider it their fate. and then there those, liek the father in this true incident, who wished he had done something different.

 

[sangom]

just to give you another point, to reflect vasumathi mention of 'sentimentality'.

someone known to us lost his only son 21 years old in a car accident night driving sober no alcohol from bangalore to chennai while driving with friends. all were teetotalers, and i wish to emphasize that. also no drugs as these were good kids.

a rogue lorry driven by the cleaner hit them head on and the son was instantly killed.

the shocked parents, ofcourse, went through the cremation, more in state of shock than anything else.

now, about 10 years later, the immense wealthy parents, live with this grief which appears to never heal.

the father, in a poignant chat with me, a while back, mentioned, that instead of blindly following the tradition, he wished he had buried his son, in one of his (father's) estates.

it appears that the father and son were the best of friends. he feels now that atleast he would have had the consolation of sitting next to his tomb, and getting the feel of him, chat with him, and be able to grieve. for the father, has still not been able to find a mode to grieve.

ஆறாத புண் ! what to do? i had no consolation for the father. one could only sit and listen. even to open my mouth, appeared a violation

which is why, when people come up with rules, i have an issue re exceptions. there is always circumstances which may justify doing things in violation of tradition. there are those who live by the tradition, and consider it their fate. and then there those, liek the father in this true incident, who wished he had done something different.

Dear Kunjuppu,

Something seems not computing, at least to me. If that grieving rich father can find solace by "sitting next to his tomb, and getting the feel of him, chat with him, and be able to grieve", will it not be possible for him to do so with a life-size photo of the departed son on flexboard, or even better, since you say they are 'immensely rich', a life size statue of the dear departed son in metal? Why should there be some rotten remains of the son's dead body somewhere deep down under the earth and in what way is the father qualified to detect the presence of the son's astral body and things like that through those mortal remains?I tend to suspect that the immensely rich parents have been sold out to western mores already, and they may be longing to follow those customs!


You know, there is a place called Ponnani which is very famous as a religious centre of Muslims for the 'sunnath' (circumcision) ceremony of their boys. It is on the seashore and the soilis loose sand for miles inland. Because of the very large number of interments of muslims there, the water in the wells for many villages around that place had become unusable even in the 1970's. State govt., has, reportedly, given pipe water supply from distant water sources to all those villages now. Still, muslims continue to dig graves and bury their dead even in that place, still.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

I would like to add one point here. I am not sure about particular caste but as regards
Hindus are generally concerned cremating the bodies of young child (infants) do not take place.
They are only properly buried after death.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[renuka]

I would like to add one point here. I am not sure about particular caste but as regards
Hindus are generally concerned cremating the bodies of young child (infants) do not take place.
They are only properly buried after death.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

Not really sir, my mum said that she lost 2 siblings one who was a few days old and another aged 5 years both males and she said both were cremated.

The 1st sibling who was a few days old was cremated in Lahore(when Lahore was still India) and the second sibling was in Malaysia when he died and cremation carried out under the advise of a North Indian Brahmin priest.

Not that I want to drag in caste here but my mum said that is the practise of the community she belongs too(Punjabi Brahmins)

I also wonder why the difference?

Which is really correct?

 

[nachi naga]

i have amma and appas snaps.talk to them everyday,my best buddies keep quiet listening to me and i get relief all the time.

 

[ozone]

anandarama dikshithar, the katha kalakshepa guy, was buried and his samadhi a place of pilgrimage. i was very surprised when this happened.

Anantarama Dikshithar took Sanyasam before he died and hence the samadhi.

 

[ozone]

the father, in a poignant chat with me, a while back, mentioned, that instead of blindly following the tradition, he wished he had buried his son, in one of his (father's) estates.

A lame out used just to drive a point. The only people in the world who grieve fully or successfully are those who have a tomb? silly, absolutely silly.
For those who die in accidents or commit suicide I think there are no samskaras.

 

[sangom]

Not really sir, my mum said that she lost 2 siblings one who was a few days old and another aged 5 years both males and she said both were cremated.

The 1st sibling who was a few days old was cremated in Lahore(when Lahore was still India) and the second sibling was in Malaysia when he died and cremation carried out under the advise of a North Indian Brahmin priest.

Not that I want to drag in caste here but my mum said that is the practise of the community she belongs too(Punjabi Brahmins)

I also wonder why the difference?

Which is really correct?

Smt. Renuka,

afaik, there are two lines of "brahmin" opinion about cremation/burying. One is that only a brahmin who has kept his "oupasana agni" throughout his life should be given cremation with that agni. (If his wife predeceases him she also gets cremated with that agni, the husband has to grow a new agni by the using "AraNI" and start afresh for his own future use; but if he dies first what is the peocedure to be followed is not clear to me.)

So any boy before upanayanam, all girls before marriage, etc., are supposed not to get cremation. But during the last 50 or 60 years I have seen (heard) both cremation and burial depending upon locality, local customs, etc. Thus, there is no hard and fast rule when it comes to very small children, imo.

 

[kunjuppu]

dear sangom,

there is a beauty in european grave yards. if you go to the small village churches of england, and meander around it, you will see graves, some dating back 500 years, with their quaint quotations, many sad, some poignant and a few humourous.

even in toronto, i think, the local cemetries are among the most peaceful places to walk a summer evening. the only other occupants would be teenagers necking or making out . so, personally, i find it difficult to look on cemetries as full of decaying bodies and full of vermin.

i know that in india, cemetries particularly british christian ones are neglected and decaying. the local christian ones, (i grew up in xtian neighbourhood, and there were 2 cemetries nearby) are constantly recycled ie i think every 10 years the bodies have decayed sufficiently that all that is left is a few bones, which are crushed and sent to fertilizer factories.

the same goes in afaik muslim cemetries too. in bhopal, during the union carbide poison gas leak, the ulemas had to give special dispensation, so that many old graves could be dug again to accommodate new bodies, even though the accepted time span was not yet complete.

personally, i think, compared to all this, cremation is clean, and leaves no carbon footprints

re my friend who lost his son: he is of a calibre, that i can empathize. there is no picture of the son, in the house, or atleast not one i have seen. i find it pretty crude and garish, re our habit, to post a blowup of the dead person, in the prominent room of the house, and worse still, the habit of namaskaram to the pix.

as i said, many folks while alive, are crooks, and i find it difficult to bestow 'sanctity' on these fellows, just because they stopped commiting more crimes. maybe we should only wish that such as these, had departed earlier, and saved their society or family much grief

btw, i can understand my friend's need to have a grave of his departed son, and spend evenings near him. their home is by the beach, and the proximity of the grave, to the breakers, can indeed provide not only solace, but perhaps a perspective of things larger than the passing of life.

thank you.

 

[kunjuppu]

A lame out used just to drive a point. The only people in the world who grieve fully or successfully are those who have a tomb? silly, absolutely silly.
For those who die in accidents or commit suicide I think there are no samskaras.

i think this post, is a perfect example of ignorance enveloped in arrogance.

first of all, who are we, to question the intensity of a father's grief at losing his son, and how he wishes to grieve for it. to call it 'silly' is
the height of insensitivity.

and who are we to know whether a soul has sanskara or not. has anyone come back from the dead, carrying affadavits?

 

[ozone]

i think this post, is a perfect example of ignorance enveloped in arrogance.

cool... For those who refuse to hear discomforting perspective, I understand how it could sound as arrogance.

first of all, who are we, to question the intensity of a father's grief at losing his son, and how he wishes to grieve for it. to call it

If this was not something to be talked about there was no need for it to be dumped here.

'silly' is
the height of insensitivity.

This one is even more sillier. Dont just fly off the handle just because you dont get it. Insensitivity is not one way.

and who are we to know whether a soul has sanskara or not. has anyone come back from the dead, carrying affadavits?

Who are we to hear some silly gripes about some one doing something they do not believe in.
And the same question would apply to you sir. Who are we to question how others want to grieve or respect the dead. Please read your other posts if you are not sure why I am telling this.

 

[kunjuppu]

ozone,

apparently you are unable to see how insensitive and cruel your post appears.

one rule cannot fit everyone. i have seen too many cases, of unbending folks, who have all through their lives, mocked and riled against those whom they think, have broken the laws of scriptures and ancients.... till they themselves have been forced to meet
circumstances, which made them bend the very rules that hitherto they were champions.

let us not accumulate the sin of arrogance against folks like my friend, who has lost his only son, and pass judgement on whether
the son's soul will reach moksha or not. the grief of the living are sometimes unbearable, and how low can one get, than mocking the grief of someone else.

i dont know what else to say, except obviously your parents have not taught you the values to be a human being ,or, if they did, you have missed learning the value of empathy. so sad. on both instances.

 

[prasad1]

Death - Bhagavad Gita —

The body has death, but not the soul. The body sleeps, the soul flies. The soul-stirring words on death and the soul in this chapter of the Gita, let us recollect. "Even as man discards old clothes for the new ones, so the dweller in the body, the soul, leaving aside the worn-out bodies, enters into new bodies. The soul migrates frombody to body. Weapons cannot cleave it, nor fire consume it, nor water drench it, nor wind dry it." This is the soul and this is what is meant by the existence of the soul. Now we shall be well advised to observe the existence of death, if there is any, in the momentous words of Sri Aurobindo, the Founder of the integral Yoga. "Death, he exclaims, "has no separate existence by itself, it is only a result of the principle of decay in the body and that principle is there already" it is part of the physical nature. At the same time it is not inevitable; if one could have the necessary consciousness and force, decay and death is not inevitable."


Why are we still talking about the lifeless body (panchbhuta)?
Every soul has to be celebrated, but we have to understand the true nature of who we are.
That is the message from all Upanishads and Gita, please do not kill the messenger. It is not show off from the messenger either.

 

[ozone]

ozone,

apparently you are unable to see how insensitive and cruel your post appears.

Sorry Sir, Please look yourself into the mirror. There is more insensitive-ness and cruel-ism in your posts than in others.
It is you who is blind.

one rule cannot fit everyone. i have seen too many cases, of unbending folks, who have all through their lives, mocked and riled against those whom they think, have broken the laws of scriptures and ancients.... till they themselves have been forced to meet
circumstances, which made them bend the very rules that hitherto they were champions.

Again it your post that smacks of mockery and so all the crap following it apply to you not me.

let us not accumulate the sin of arrogance against folks like my friend, who has lost his only son, and pass judgement on whether
the son's soul will reach moksha or not. the grief of the living are sometimes unbearable, and how low can one get, than mocking the grief of someone else.

You are the one who is accumulating it for dragging him here. Not me. I have nothing to do with your dear friend or his position.

i dont know what else to say, except obviously your parents have not taught you the values to be a human being ,or, if they did, you have missed learning the value of empathy. so sad. on both instances.

[/QUOTE]
Its your upbringing that shows up here more vividly. Your life has been no more better than a wild animal if I can make out from your posts and the friends you have. I know what you are made of, and where you come from, so I do not quite give a damn to your words.
Pity age is catching up with you and no matter how hard you try, you are not going to improve.

Take care

 

[kunjuppu]

ozone,

thank you for your kind reply. i wish you well.

God Bless.

 

[vsubbu48]

I dont think so. May have been rare cases. I remember having read such article and read that those were urns containing the bones/remains of the dead. Full body burials can only be of coffin kind. So, possibly they may have been cremated. Plus, tiny portion of ashes are supposed to be washed in the ganges , it is very much likely the unburnt ones may have been buried. Plus, acc. to our shAstrAs, the urns containing dry grains (rice/sesame) is to be offered and the same may have been used/buried separately. Our TN/Indian archeologists may simply want to prove Dravidian civilization separate from vedic ones or want to appease the secular factions on burials!

Plus, the cremation rules/philosophy is the same for all the varnas and there is no separate rule for Brahmins. Only the severity or timeline for the varnAs may have been different, according to their life-styles.

Dear Sir,

For your information I quote below a poem from Puranaanooru, a sangam period literature.
Poem No. 256
கலம் செய் கோவே கலம் செய் கோவே
அச்சுடைச் சாகாட்டு ஆரம் பொருந்திய
சிறுவெண் பல்லி போலத் தன்னோடு
சுரம்பல வந்த எமக்கும் அருளி
வியன்மலர் அகன் பொழில் ஈமத் தாழி
அகலிது ஆக வனைமோ
நனம்தலை மூதூர் கலம் செய் கோவே

In this poem the poetess says that just as a lizard sticks to the potter's wheel spinning at great speed, I want to stick myself to my dead husband's body. Please therefore make a pot with enough width to bury myself with my dead husband. This clearly shows that the practice of burying a dead body in 'eemath thaazhi' was prevalent in ancient sangam period.

 

[happyhindu]

Vsubbu48,

Thanks for the info.

I don't know how far true but was told that vedic civilisation practiced burial system only. The practice of cremation came much later. Am told the cremation practice was developed because sadhus used to dig out dead bodies for their studies. And it was beleived the atmas of such dug-out-bodies will become pretatmas and not get peace.

Actually it is claimed that sadhus like aghoras were like scientists of an ancient time, who dug out dead bodies, dissected them and studied anatomy, and developed surgery techniques. It is hearsay that Sushruta also developed his surgical skills in a similar manner. I don't know how far all this is true though (need to verify).

Regards.

 

[zebra16]

Vsubbu48,

I don't know how far true but was told that vedic civilisation practiced burial system only. The practice of cremation came much later. Am told the cremation practice was developed because sadhus used to dig out dead bodies for their studies. And it was beleived the atmas of such dug-out-bodies will become pretatmas and not get peace.

Does not appear to be correct. Burial and cremation practices were co-existing in vedic times. Pl refer to taittiriya brAhmaNam. Ashtakam 3, prasna 1 (also known as Nakshatra suktham) in mantra addressed to asterism "magha" representing "pitrs" the mantra goes "ye agni dagDhaa; ye an-agni dagDhaa"

 

[kunjuppu]

having read many tamil blogs, and invariably one of the of the topics is the treatment of the dead.

There appears to be a strong racial memory element in many of the (especially) rural NB tamil communities, that burial was the accepted practice, perhaps during the 1st or 2nd sangam age, or earlier. We are talking of the tamils of pre common era, may be.

widespread practise of cremation i think, it is felt, came only with the vedic values, which area a later manifest of tamil culture.

back to the reformers of today...

Although, by and large, today everyone including MK’s family practises cremation, the concept of burial is not frowned upon, as was evidenced by the prominent actor TS Baliah being buried in his garden in madipakkam (much to the chagrin of his neighbours who did not quite enthuse on the idea of a dead human in their vicinity.

MGR, anna, periyar were buried. Would be interesting to see what happens to MK, though murasoli maran was cremated. So was nedunchezhian, a mudaliar.

 

[kunjuppu]

the pix above probably does more to propagate tamil hinduism than the works of a 1000 vedic priests..

.... and undo the work of 1000 abrahamic priests too

 

[happyhindu]

Does not appear to be correct. Burial and cremation practices were co-existing in vedic times. Pl refer to taittiriya brAhmaNam. Ashtakam 3, prasna 1 (also known as Nakshatra suktham) in mantra addressed to asterism "magha" representing "pitrs" the mantra goes "ye agni dagDhaa; ye an-agni dagDhaa"

Sir, taittiriya brahmana or any brahmana-text was not around in the vedic period.. The brahmanas (texts) were composed after the samhita period. Even the type of sanskrit used in brahmanas (texts) is different from vedic sanskrit.

Does any verse in the samhitas suggest cremation? If yes, then we can say cremation existed in the vedic period. So far, we only know that burial urns were a practice in old archeological sites...

 

[happyhindu]

View attachment 1430



the pix above probably does more to propagate tamil hinduism than the works of a 1000 vedic priests..

.... and undo the work of 1000 abrahamic priests too

Sir, am confused, this is what everyone does everyday, is tehre anything extra special about this pic? just bcoz it is surya?

 

[zebra16]

Sir, taittiriya brahmana or any brahmana-text was not around in the vedic period.. The brahmanas (texts) were composed after the samhita period. Even the type of sanskrit used in brahmanas (texts) is different from vedic sanskrit.

Does any verse in the samhitas suggest cremation? If yes, then we can say cremation existed in the vedic period. So far, we only know that burial urns were a practice in old archeological sites...

Once again I have to disagree with the contents of your post.

1. Unlike in other vedas, in krsna yajurveda, the mantras and brahmana portions are mixed. In fact that is why it is called krsna (meaning mixed.... and not black as generally translated) so the brahmanas also form the samhita portion. Any google seach will easily establish this. So the normal explanation of brahmana text being belonging to a later period does not hold good in case of krsna yajurveda.

2. Coming to the samhitas portion suggesting cremation, please refer to rg veda 10.15.10 to 14 and 10.16.9 to 10.16.13.

3. As regards how ancient the practice of cremating the dead, the following is the entry from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2008 edition regarding cremation of Buddha under the caption Funeral rites:

" The origin of Buddhist funeral observances can be traced back to Indian customs. The cremation of the body of the Buddha and the subsequent distribution of his ashes are told in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta(“Sutta on the Great Final Deliverance”). Early Chinese travelers such as Faxian described cremations of venerable monks. After cremation the ashes and bones of the monk were collected and astupa built over them. That this custom was widely observed is evident from the large number of stupas found near monasteries."

 

[happyhindu]

Once again I have to disagree with the contents of your post.

1. Unlike in other vedas, in krsna yajurveda, the mantras and brahmana portions are mixed. In fact that is why it is called krsna (meaning mixed.... and not black as generally translated) so the brahmanas also form the samhita portion. Any google seach will easily establish this. So the normal explanation of brahmana text being belonging to a later period does not hold good in case of krsna yajurveda.

Any proof?

Afaik, brahmanas (texts) may borrow mantras from the samhitas but are ritual texts (all about how a ritual is meant to be performed). All the brahmanas (texts) were composed after the vedic samhita period.

2. Coming to the samhitas portion suggesting cremation, please refer to rg veda 10.15.10 to 14 and 10.16.9 to 10.16.13.

Looked at the relevant portions - Rig Veda: Rig-Veda, Book 10: HYMN XV. Fathers.

In what way do you suggest the verses suggest cremation?

3. As regards how ancient the practice of cremating the dead, the following is the entry from the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 2008 edition regarding cremation of Buddha under the caption Funeral rites:

" The origin of Buddhist funeral observances can be traced back to Indian customs. The cremation of the body of the Buddha and the subsequent distribution of his ashes are told in the Mahaparinibbana Sutta(“Sutta on the Great Final Deliveranceâ€￾). Early Chinese travelers such as Faxian described cremations of venerable monks. After cremation the ashes and bones of the monk were collected and astupa built over them. That this custom was widely observed is evident from the large number of stupas found near monasteries."

Ofcourse Buddha was born after the brahmanas (texts) were composed.

Maybe this will help (please look up the sources though) - Brahmana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards.