Why I Am Not A Hindu ?- Book Review

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

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Guys..Relax! Relax! Relax!! For the arugment sake, let me buy all your points the last 10 post.. claiming..

Points taken!!. Lets drive the point, and stick to the duties, as destined by Varna.

Now here is the question.. In 1930's (none of us were born at that time), madras presidency had 95% Brahmins in govt jobs (not priestly jobs)..Possilby a Kshatriya(Thaisildar, Distict Magistrate/mini king)/Bhanya(Bramin british clerk) jobs. The society, soon after democracy, wish to bring back the 'Duties destined by Dharma" in accordance with their hindu religious doctrine(as claimed by you all,in recent post)... ie, all Brahmins should go back to 'Priesthood', in true spirits to maintain 'Dharma & Duties.. And inorder to correct the social imbalance,rather, to bring the hindu society back in line with varna, enacts , 'Reservation'''' .. Do you find any problem with this?

ha ha ha... now that is funny...

social balance can be achieved merely by bringing back brahmins to priesthood????!!!! wow, that is something...

brahmins' duties are more than that - to guide, counsel all the varnas...

but of course, due to a combination of the factors, brahmins have strayed away from their original duties.... but then, why did they?

it is a well known fact that the entire society and more importantly the king (the state in the present context), supported the life of the brahmins... so that a brahmin need not be bothered about basic security needs...

it is perhaps the brahmana, who still lives as per his ordained dharma... (not all, but at least a few)... whereas, none of the other jathis do their dharma...

how is that for a start?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

btw, it is an interesting perception that 95% of brahmins occupying govt posts are a social imbalance :lol:... such statements are generally considered sweeping statements when they do not portray the backdrop to the stage...

there are statistics which show that the presence of brahmins was due to the fact that brahmins took to english education readily than the other castes... because of poverty... and they did well in their pursuit...

most of the other castes did not bother to even consider it... and suddenly, one fine day, when they happened to look up, lo and behold - all the scheming brahmins had taken advantageous positions because of the vedas and upanishads and because they were brahmins... bah!

please make a comprehensive study on these topics and then discuss; your last post is nothing but immature and biased...

i do not want to waste time on such juvenile mentalities...

:bored:

 

[sapr333]

Seshadri>>brahmins' duties are more than that - to guide, counsel all the varnas...
but of course, due to a combination of the factors, brahmins have strayed away from their original duties.... but then, why did they?it is a well known fact that the entire society and more importantly the king (the state in the present context), supported the life of the brahmins... so that a brahmin need not be bothered about basic security needs..>>>

Even if the govt provides free ration (already rice is 1Rs/Kg) and a police protection(kings security), and make Brahmana as advicers for all varna, and mandate all Brahmanas to go back to 'Priestly jobs'.... Im sure its not a meaning ful and welcoming idea, in this modern society. So lets accept the fact, that ordaining someone to do their duty according to their jaathi, is not an acceptable one for all.

>>>it is perhaps the brahmana, who still lives as per his ordained dharma... (not all, but at least a few)... whereas, none of the other jathis do their dharma...>>

Just curious.According to Dharma (or according to you), whats the ordained duty for an untouchable?

>>there are statistics which show that the presence of brahmins was due to the fact that brahmins took to english education readily than the other castes... because of poverty... and they did well in their pursuit..>>

History speaks the otherway.. Sutras and untouchables were denied educational rights.. There is an interesting anecdote.. Many a hindus went for Bible class, just to learn English, which was forbidden for them to get access to it in the mainline/gurukul system. We can talk a lot about it.. The point I was driving is, let accept the facts first, and move forward.. The society has changed.. The world has changed.. Why we still wanna live in the laurals of past.

 

[sapr333]

Brahmins are not at the top of the social construct. .

But in the democratic set up, majority feels it as, otherway around. And legislators work according to the sentiments of people.

No debates/Proof/Arguments will help here, other than the sentimens of the public.. Mass decides the right/wrong, thats democracy, and thats indeed the drawback of democracy too, to a certain extent.

 

[s007bala]

re

So if one is born as fisherman then he has to do his duty, in the same vein apply for the other births...

mm,even though one is born in a fisherman's family,that does not prevent him/her to become a 'sathya gnayaani'.isn't it?

and India as such a term was unknown

sapr333,this is how we have been brainwashed by alien invaders for the last 1000 years,and despite becoming free for the last 62 years,the residual 'stockholm syndrome' is in grasp of indian mind unknowingly as 'malam'.

a chakravarthi ruled over smaller rajahs,which extended well beyond egypt,rome,russian territories,chinese territories,middle eastern countries,far east,americas...etc.the geography of bharatham map was entirely different,if one is quoting from sanathana dharma scriptures,which are millions of years old.

But in the democratic set up, majority feels it as, otherway around. And legislators work according to the sentiments of people.

No debates/Proof/Arguments will help here, other than the sentimens of the public.. Mass decides the right/wrong, thats democracy, and thats indeed the drawback of democracy too, to a certain extent.

sapr333,for rulers today,brahmanas are easy to predate and fool the masses,that all their woes are due to brahminical system.whereas the actual truth is,idiot kshatriyas lost the fight and got clobbered for 1000 years,and we brahmans had to use our ingenuity to keep the fabric of sanathana dharma alive=chanakya samhithi.

now moronic baboons vaishyas are losing the battle and the multi-national corporations are plundering the markets in india.why all these bad things are happening,becoz brhamana is not respected at all.now that brahamins are well placed in society worldover,the jealousy of other breeds erupts in forums like this.sapr 333,you are a classic example of brahmin hatred in this forum,and i am glad you make no bones about it,at least we know your motive.
:angel:
sb

p.s.strange i notice sapr333,palindrome as senior members and i thought this moniker is new in the forum??????????????

 

[s007bala]

re

Apologize, I tried a font size..It got blotted out... I never know this...Im sorry for making it feel like a spam.

all you need to do is go and edit it.voila ,its going to look fine instead of the monstrosity thats been posted for now untill edition of it!!

sb

 

[palindrome]

brahmins' duties are more than that - to guide, counsel all the varnas...

but of course, due to a combination of the factors, brahmins have strayed away from their original duties.... but then, why did they?

the brahmins strayed away from their original duties because of their own desire for wealth.

the excuse that a brahmin gave up his duties for wealth does not hold good.

the vedic brahmins did not cover wealth. as a brahmachari he lived as a bhikshuk, ate whatever was given to him, had his mind in control and played a role that was socially respected.

it is naive to think that a so-called "brahmin" suddenly decided to get tempted by english education with the so-called excuse of poverty...when his role itself was designed for aparigraha (non-possessive ness or not possessing anything).

there still are monastic traditions that live as bhikshuks...they are not involved in seeking money..they are living life as proper brahmacharis..and ppl still go to them for advice and guidance...

not from the so-called regular brahmins that are a recent creed.

my one cent.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Even if the govt provides free ration (already rice is 1Rs/Kg) and a police protection(kings security), and make Brahmana as advicers for all varna, and mandate all Brahmanas to go back to 'Priestly jobs'.... Im sure its not a meaning ful and welcoming idea, in this modern society. So lets accept the fact, that ordaining someone to do their duty according to their jaathi, is not an acceptable one for all.

how would we know that it would not work? you seem to portray it negatively....!!! maybe if all jathis were ordained to do their jathi work, it could actually work! :wave:

>>>it is perhaps the brahmana, who still lives as per his ordained dharma... (not all, but at least a few)... whereas, none of the other jathis do their dharma...>>

Just curious.According to Dharma (or according to you), whats the ordained duty for an untouchable?

there is no untouchable jathi... it is merely a service... you seem to be pretty much biased about what the jathis or varnas are... and also such statments speak a closed mindset behind it...

>>there are statistics which show that the presence of brahmins was due to the fact that brahmins took to english education readily than the other castes... because of poverty... and they did well in their pursuit..>>

History speaks the otherway.. Sutras and untouchables were denied educational rights.. There is an interesting anecdote.. Many a hindus went for Bible class, just to learn English, which was forbidden for them to get access to it in the mainline/gurukul system. We can talk a lot about it.. The point I was driving is, let accept the facts first, and move forward.. The society has changed.. The world has changed.. Why we still wanna live in the laurals of past.

whose history (his+story?)? nobody were denied educational rights...

i give a personal example of how a brahmana was... my late grandfather was a school science teacher and later on, was the headmaster at the govt school... (this was some 50 years ago)... he used to reward studious and intelligent students with small gifts (like pen, books etc) from his own money... the majority of such recipients were non-brahmins (son of the palkaran or the goundan... etc)... some have even visited him after they got to a good position in their life later...!

so you see, your distortion is your idea only...! mass opinion remains a mass opinion only - it does not become a fact!

the fact is that brahmanas were pillars of society, and still are... and this, my friend, is an undeniable fact... :angel:

you can go on harping otherwise, but that simply aint the truth...!

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

the brahmins strayed away from their original duties because of their own desire for wealth.

the excuse that a brahmin gave up his duties for wealth does not hold good.

the vedic brahmins did not cover wealth. as a brahmachari he lived as a bhikshuk, ate whatever was given to him, had his mind in control and played a role that was socially respected.

it is naive to think that a so-called "brahmin" suddenly decided to get tempted by english education with the so-called excuse of poverty...when his role itself was designed for aparigraha (non-possessive ness or not possessing anything).

my one cent.

you conveniently seem to forget that there was an upheavel of the societal setup?????

such statements which expect too much of the brahmin while ignoring other factors does not hold water...

poverty forced him to look otherwise - it was one of the main reasons... people started to look down on the brahmin and he took to english education...

it cannot happen as you want it to happen... just because it does not go well with you, cannot be inferred to mean that it did not happen...!

non-possessiveness is a different thing and existence is a different thing!!!! dont get confused by reading too much... one has to live in this world to perform his duties - to god/devas/forefathers/humans/animals... it is not as simple as you think it to be...

 

[palindrome]

brown.

maybe if all jathis were ordained to do their jathi work, it could actually work!

then they should (try to do so). without talking abt anything else.

there is no untouchable jathi... it is merely a service... you seem to be pretty much biased about what the jathis or varnas are... and also such statments speak a closed mindset behind it...

true there is no untouchable jaati. but let us not forget that brahmins are also supposed to do exactly that - merely service. unfortunately some upper castes (not only brahmins but also those that are considered shudras) decided to treat others as untouchables in the past as though it were a jaati. such a prob does not exist anymore.

the fact is that brahmanas were pillars of society, and still are... and this, my friend, is an undeniable fact...

nope. please read thru various versions of hindu history. there were tribal janapadas, including kings that did not seek any counsel from brahmins nor did they treat brahmins as any higher varna. in later times too it held true for several groups. i have spoken to so-called rajputs and so-called marathas and they still do not agree that they depended ever on a brahmin's counsel. Even a man who stands in the front row during a battle, the kind who has no fear of death, does not consider any man higher in any varna or higher in any way than him.

the prob comes because of applying varna to jaathis (occupations). all that was conveyed in the ancient past was that a man moves from various stages in life to finally vanaprastha and if possible, sanayasam; and that attaining brahman is the highest or highest goal for a hindu. Attaining brahman as the highest goal is not restricted to any jaati. But later came the IPR (intellectual property rights) by possibly those who did not understand head or tail of what they former rishis were saying and they botched it up...

you can go on harping otherwise, but that simply aint the truth...!

no discussion ever stops...that is why it is called a discussion..

 

[palindrome]

you conveniently seem to forget that there was an upheavel of the societal setup?????

such statements which expect too much of the brahmin while ignoring other factors does not hold water...

poverty forced him to look otherwise - it was one of the main reasons... people started to look down on the brahmin and he took to english education...

it cannot happen as you want it to happen... just because it does not go well with you, cannot be inferred to mean that it did not happen...!

non-possessiveness is a different thing and existence is a different thing!!!! dont get confused by reading too much... one has to live in this world to perform his duties - to god/devas/forefathers/humans/animals... it is not as simple as you think it to be...

poverty is what many brahmins in the past seemed to live in without complaints. they owned nothing, by choice, by practice...

please let me know what forced a brahmin to look otherwise because of so-called poverty.

nothing can happen as anyone wants it to happen.

 

[sapr333]

Bala,

>>>.the geography of bharatham map was entirely different,if one is quoting from sanathana dharma scriptures,which are millions of years old.>>

Lets be realistic and interpret thinks in a learned way in accordance with history,archeology,science. Human race has developed over last 50,000 years only. It has got civilized just 10,000 years ago..Cow and horses were domesticated just 8,000 years ago. Oldest known civilization is Sumerians 4000BC.



>>>sapr333,for rulers today,brahmanas are easy to predate and fool the masses.>>

Targeting any particular community is defnitely bad and wrong, and Im not here for any hate-speech. As palindrome said earlier, one should not blame the whole community for the mistakes done by few fundamentalists.


>>>now that brahamins are well placed in society worldover,the jealousy of other breeds erupts in forums like this.sapr 333>>

As a person, ONe-To-One, I may feel jelous, had you been something learned/greater/affluent than me.Thats jealousy.. How could a person feel jelaous over a society/country/community? And what would he achieve..

There is song of John Lennon (Beatles), which hum very often.. I see the world in this perspective.


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

 

[sapr333]

Seshadri>>poverty forced him to look otherwise - it was one of the main reasons... people started to look down on the brahmin and he took to english education...>>

Points taken. So, according to you, Brahmans shifted the ordained duty, and took other duties.Even shifted from Sanskrit to English,which is again a change against traditions.
In one of the good article written by Nachinarkinian (in this site, in article section), he says,Brahmins of Kannyakumari/Travancore, even excelled in the Baniya job of Money Lending. Thats indeed a good chance, for survival in accordance with the society.
So is the case with every Jaathi. Untouchable cannot make a living with the scavenging job, so he also took the English education. As time changes, things changed. Every body changed..All for good..

Now, where is the question of Jaathi now? Caste is irrelevant now..Ordained duty is irrelevant now.. So, Is it possible to eradicate Jaathi.. Or shed that identity?

 

[sapr333]

Seshadri>>poverty forced him to look otherwise - it was one of the main reasons... people started to look down on the brahmin and he took to english education...>>

Points taken. So, according to you, Brahmanas shifted the ordained duty, and took other duties.Even shifted from Sanskrit to English,which is indeed a great change against traditions.
In one of the good article written by Nachinarkinian (in this site, in article section), he says,Brahmins of Kannyakumari/Travancore, even excelled in the Baniya job of Money Lending. Thats indeed a good change, for survival in accordance with the society.
So is the case with every Jaathi. Untouchable cannot make a living with the scavenging job, so he also took the English education. As time changes, things changed. Society evolved for better economical reasons. Every body changed..All for good..

Now, where is the question of Jaathi now? Caste is irrelevant now..concept of Ordained duty/Dharma is irrelevant now.. So, Is it possible to eradicate Jaathi, now?. Or shed that identity?

sap

 

[malgova.mango]

Don't worry - the ball already is in your court.

 

[malgova.mango]

Pali!

Seeking wealth is a fundamental right for all jaathees.

First get the facts straight and be objective in your reply.

 

[pannvalan]

Kancha ilaiah's book on hinduism

1. I for one do not support the theory that Hinduism is on the decline.

2. I somewhat agree that brahmins eating meat - particularly calf meat -
finds a reference in ancient texts.

3. Animal sacrifices were quite a routine affair, those days.

4. 'Varnasrama dharma', as it is narrowly understood and propounded by
many today, will not work. I firmly believe that everyone is equal by
birth and we are all divided by our profession only. And this profession
must be left to one's own choice.

5. Buddhism and Jainism contributed to 'Vegetarianism' and 'teetotalism'
in Hinduism in a great measure and that's the major reason why these
two religions got subsumed into Hinduism gradually.

6. Though these two virtues - vegetarianism and teetotalism - are
to be appreciated, inculcated and ingrained in every human being,
those who eat meat and consume alcohol must not be shunned by
Hinduism, merely because of these two habits.

7. I repeat and trust firmly Hinduism can never decline or die. Ignore
these pseudo-secularists!

 

[sapr333]

>>Politicians need the caste system for getting elected. The so called social activists need a cause. You create imaginary enemies so that you can keep up the pretense of a fight.>>> But Brahmin-Baiting can not win elections any more.>>>

As said earlier, its very sad, that democracy has aligned itself in terms of caste count, but thats natures call.. Yes, Brahmin baiting gave DMK a success, and that strategy has percolated to all castes.As long as jaathi is there in our minds, sure these caste based politics will continue to remain.Every one should be blamed for this, not alone Brahmins


>>>You can go through the thread "Hinduism's conquest of the West" to find out about the spread of Hindu ideas in the West.

Possible, and we should be glad about it. What are you trying to say here!!

The sadest part is, inspite of having 5000 year old civilization,we never conquered the west in terms of economy/Politics/Science/Military power/Social Health-care/Literacy/Per-capita,Human Rights etc.


>>>>BTW if you want a Dalit to be appointed as the priest of Thirupathi temple Kancha could approach the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh. Why did not the C.M appoint a Dalit as a priest?

Remeber, its all possible in Democracy. If ancient temples like Chidambaram could be taken over by the Govt, with a simple signature on gazatte, I think, these things could also happen. Its even possible,that, all caste people may even ask for reservation in Tirupathi Temple priest job, may be by 2050AD!!

And holding on to 'Jaathi' in line with Ordained duty ideology,esp, in this democratic set up, the loosers are indeed Brahmins.Thats the point I'm driving here.


>>If a Dalit become the Prime Minister of India will they pull down all the dividing walls in villages? >>

You dont need a dalit for enacting such laws.. We need Raja Ram Mohan Roys.We need Bharathiyars..For that matter, any one, who can really understand this social issue, and put the foot down and act boldly..Given a PM chance to JJ, she too would do it boldly..Who else in this world had guts to arrest Swamigal?

 

[sapr333]

Pali!

Seeking wealth is a fundamental right for all jaathees.

First get the facts straight and be objective in your reply.

There were times, that untouchables were denied land owing rights How can one expect them to seek wealth, in a country, where the 80% economy relied solely on agriculture.

Its a sheer, Fundamental Rights Violation, right!!

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Guys..Relax! Relax! Relax!! For the arugment sake, let me buy all your points the last 10 post.. claiming..

1)Brahmins were just Priests, living on Picksha, Preaching hinduism and doing rituals.
2) Nachi said, a rich man wont get married his son to a daughter of poor brahmin priest
3) Mango, talked about all our duties, as claimed by varna.
4) Brahmins were never Kshatriyas(kings) to command, and were destined for priesthood
5) Nachi said, Brahmins of Mahabaratha were inferior and cited drowpadi Swayamwarm.
6) Sesh, said, once should not feel inferior about his occupation. Priest hood is not just great. Lets respect our destined duties as destined by God's role play..
Points taken!!. Lets drive the point, and stick to the duties, as destined by Varna.

Now here is the question.. In 1930's (none of us were born at that time), madras presidency had 95% Brahmins in govt jobs (not priestly jobs)..Possilby a Kshatriya(Thaisildar, Distict Magistrate/mini king)/Bhanya(Bramin british clerk) jobs. The society, soon after democracy, wish to bring back the 'Duties destined by Dharma" in accordance with their hindu religious doctrine(as claimed by you all,in recent post)... ie, all Brahmins should go back to 'Priesthood', in true spirits to maintain 'Dharma & Duties.. And inorder to correct the social imbalance,rather, to bring the hindu society back in line with varna, enacts , 'Reservation'''' .. Do you find any problem with this?

Brahmins have ceased to be only Priests thousands of years back. Please see the thread " How varna/caste system harmed the Brahmins." Even at the time of Mahabharata Dronacharya was a teacher teaching weapons training. You will find a number of examples in the above thread.

Going by the discussions here please do not think the Brahmins have stuck to Priesthood only and think of Dharmasasthra. Far from it. Do you not know of Industrial groups in Tamil Nadu and elsewhere. TVS, Amalgamations, Seshasayee, Sanmar and thousands of smaller industrial units. When the government closed the avenue of government jobs, the Brahmins chose self employment. They started banks and finance companies also. Syndicate bank, Sundaram finance etc. etc. The Hotel Industry has been another main venture for Brahmins. Udipi hotels are there throughout India. Tamil Nadu did have a Brahmin's cafe in all the towns. Even now in all the major towns you will find Brahmins running messes and catering establishments.

Again I think you might have heard of Gen. Sunderji who was the Chief of the Armed Forces and Admiral Krishnan who was the Naval Chief of staff. After all Mangal Pande the first martyr of the War of Independence was a Brahmin.

Brahmins are even into leather processing units. The only field where no Brahmin seem to have entered so far is dealing in liquor. I might be mistaken here also.

So do not live in a fool's paradise and think the Brahmins will stick to Priesthood. Brahmins will venture into new fields. The Brahmins have no intention of sticking to Priesthood. This was decided by the Brahmins thousands of years back.

All Castes believe in caste, but only blame the Brahmins for it.

The reservation policy has made the Brahmins more vibrant and forced them into more profitable ventures than mere clerking for the government.

The government can not force Brahmins to stick to Priesthood.

Most of the posters here are people who are searching for their roots and an identity. So a lot of talk about Dharmasasthra etc. That does not mean that the Brahmins will go back to servitude.

In the 1900s, the Brahmins took up government jobs because they perceived an opportunity. The other castes were the landed gentry who were cultivators and did not need government jobs. I will write about "Brahmins denying opportunities to other castes for education" an age old myth created by others in a later post.

 

[malgova.mango]

one can't own others land in the name of right of wealth. if others, gave the land you can jolly well own it.

right to seek wealth is different. that one didn't own anything is entirely different issue.

common... i can seek wealth, but i can't claim over another's land as mine.
i can't complain that the other guy denies my fundamental right to seek wealth by refusing to accede to my claim.

 

[pannvalan]

I agree, all castes believe in casteism. All wish and strive to preserve and protect their own castes. Therefore, to abolish casteism within a short timeframe, say,
the next 50 years is just a good dream.

But, we can aim at diluting the evil effects of casteism as is practised today.

 

[sapr333]

So do not live in a fool's paradise and think the Brahmins will stick to Priesthood. Brahmins will venture into new fields. The Brahmins have no intention of sticking to Priesthood. This was decided by the Brahmins thousands of years back.

All Castes believe in caste, but only blame the Brahmins for it.

T.

I think we both are driving the same point..I think you are only creating an imaginary enemy...

My earlier response in-line to this point was to Sheshadri, who refered a situation that every one sticking to their kula job.. My point was, jsut that Brahmins moved to every sphere, so is the case with untouchable, where is the question of JAADHI here.. Lets shun it!! Thats the point I was driving here.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

sapr333, the earlier discussion was about karma and how it is to be interpreted... suddenly you linked between varna, jathi and karma and broached the subject of reservation, claiming that brahmins were only priests earlier!!!

kindly introspect your intention here... jathi is taken up as a cause only by the non-brahmins...

leave the religious matters separately... that is a different point altogether...

you seem to infer that brahmins stopped or prevented others from studying... and this was possible due to their perceived social status in the hierarchy!!!! ridiculous... you need to get your facts right - do not base your arguments on kanch's logic...

brahmins excelled in most of the fields, because they strived for it... you conveniently ommitted a factor called hardwork and diligence and chose to interpret it as discrimination... ha!

the occupation as per a jathi was perceived in the olden days; but even then, occupation mix did happen...

nobody is stressing that jathis should be the main cause for commercial employment... you are bringing this point from nowhere!!!

Sheshadri, who refered a situation that every one sticking to their kula job..

i said this in response to yout stmt that brahmins should go to priesthood only (anywaythe thinking that brahmins were just priests alone, is itself a fallacy!)... you cannot interpret it to mean that it is a standalone stmt...

years back when i was a kid, i have seen naickers give tea in a "kottankucchi" to the labour class person (and that too for the guy who works in their garden or house)... we offered them the same tumbler which we used to drink... and we were very orthodox... we never felt that them touching the tumbler could render it unfit for us to touch it again...!!!

brahmins were always magnanimous people... exceptions were/are there, but then, exceptions do exist in all categories, all groups.... dont they?

jathi is a means for our culture now... why should we shed jathi when it has no commercial occupational relevance anyway?

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

poverty was what the brahmin always lived in.

please let me know what forced a brahmin to look otherwise because of so-called poverty.

nothing can happen as anyone wants it to happen.

you seem to be hanging onto a three legged rabbit here...

the brahmin lived in moderation and not in poverty... if he wanted to, he could have used his intellect to gain riches and rule... but he abstained from luxuries, but not basic needs for survival and existence... and then again, there are occupations which are allowable for a brahmin, as an adviser, teaching, even commerce if the situation warrants it... all these would not have been allowed, if the brahmin were to live in poverty...

"VARUMAI IS DIFFERENT FROM ELIMAI"

did you get the point?