Why I Am Not A Hindu ?- Book Review

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

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your idea of karma yogam is your idea...

i understood this idea from bhagvadh githa...!:hungry:

 

[s007bala]

re

One's war is always considered dharmic to oneself.. and the other is always considered adharmic. For both groups, their own side is the dharmic one.

true.

There is nothing called a dharmic war. war is only for self-protection or self-propagation -- both are for self-ish reasons.

false.

Muhammad led his men to defend the law of dharmic islam (dharmic = righteous). To them fighting for islam is dharmic, to us fighting for our own dharma is dharmic. There are always 2 dharmas playing their role on world's stage before both will be gone.

wrong said to fight the inner demon within people within themselves.proh.mohm has been used and abused juslike christ is being used and abused.-period.

dharma is always one-non-duality=advaitham.

sb:frusty:

 

[sapr333]

i disagree... the mahabharatha itself is a classic example... duryodhana refused to give even one village (he went on to say that he cannot spare land equal to the tip of a needle) to the pandavas... and that is adharmic...
"

Seshadri, now you have taken the role of Karmic-Magistrate.huh!!

On what basis you condemn Duryodhana? He himselef would have taken a conscious/ judicious action, based upon the circumstances.. We dont share the tip of needle of Kashmir to Pakis... do you call it as adharmic? Rather Chinese, dont share the same with us in north east.. They all once belonged to Hindustan.. Now, can you tell them, that they are doing adharma?

I can even claim,that, his action of refusing to share the village could also be viewed as Dharmic for the society he lived in!!!.. Where is the question of Just war ie war to maintain Dharma.. In this light, you may not be able to condemn George Bush/Hitler/LTTE/Stalin/Idi Amin.. They also had better justifications, for their killings.

 

[sapr333]

true.
proh.mohm has been used and abused juslike christ is being used and abused.-period.

dharma is always one-non-duality=advaitham.

sb:frusty:

I would add the same point in a different way, what others said here....


So, according to you waging a war based on Dharma(advaitam) is right.. And according to Islam, waging a war against non-believers(those who dont believe in Islamic concept of God) is right.. According to an American, the allies. waging a war against Hitlers Jewish Genocide, is right!!.

Let me ask you this..If India got to wage war on pakistan on Kashmir issue, will you accept it right!! And what basis you would say it as Dharma.

Another question.. Who's dharmic.. Srilanka or LTTE? And on what basis?

PS: While responding, please dont forget.. Our debate is focussed on Group/Collective Karma..

 

[sapr333]

now you are with me!

as an individual, we all have the right to action, to decide or not... and whether we do it as a group or not, it is OUR DECISION that matters...

this is the essence of karma...

thanks, i would be simply redundant if i were to drag this anymore...

Rather, it should be God/Brahma's decision.. He is the final judge and absolute Legislator..

Seshadri,Correct me if im wrong!

 

[s007bala]

re

Seshadri, now you have taken the role of Karmic-Magistrate.huh!!

sapr333,if ss has taken the role of karmic -magistrate,what is your role?kulur-kancha-fier ROFL

On what basis you condemn Duryodhana? He himselef would have taken a judical action, based upon the circumstances.. We dont share the tip of needle of Kashmir to Pakis... do you call it as adharmic? Rather Chinese, dont share the same with us in north east.. They all once belonged to Hindustan.. Now, can you tell them, that they are doing adharma?

kshatriya dharmam is different.that way bharatham map is totally different if the concepts of dharma is being written or talked about.yes the entire bhu-loka was owned and occupied by bharatham.today if india does not take back its rightful place of jammu & kashmir-there is a reason.at the appropriate time,the borders will be re-drawn.similiarly with chinese.in fact that is why americans are in doldrums on account of adharmic interventions.

I can even claim,that, his action of refusing to share the village could also be viewed as Dharmic for the society he lived in!!!.. Where is the question of Just war ie war to maintain Dharma.. In this light, you may not be able to condemn George Bush/Hitler/Stalin/Idi Amin.. They also had better justifications, for their killings.

george w bush was a tool used by republican party members.left to him he will say the truth as an individual.hitler was a psychopath,who was used by other psychopaths who blamed the jews for killing jesus christ.but in actuality jesus was killed by jews themselves using romans.stalin was fighting a class warfare of the rich and poor.he went against royalty but soon became a monster himself,like muka,even though muka is a much reformed man today.jj is again a witch as well as a bitch in heat,who is doing her tandavam.idi amin was a cannibal eating the flesh of humans physically as our forefathers did once upon a time.this same barbaric streak manifests iteself thru various births and deaths over a number of lifetime untill,you becomes saathvam tatvam.

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

I would add the same point in a different way, what others said here....


So, according to you waging a war based on Dharma(advaitam) is right.. And according to Islam, waging a war against non-believers(those who dont believe in Islamic concept of God) is right.. According to an American, the allies. waging a war against Hitlers Jewish Genocide, is right!!.

Let me ask you this..If India got to wage war on pakistan on Kashmir issue, will you accept it right!! And what basis you would say it as Dharma.

Another question.. Who's dharmic.. Srilanka or LTTE? And on what basis?

PS: While responding, please dont forget.. Our debate is focussed on Group/Collective Karma..

when it comes to collective karma,which is a misnomer imho,but to explain,finally it breaks down to individuals only.only a individual is responsible for his/her karma.since its easier to club things together,you term it as collection of souls or harvest of souls or atmas.every human being has to eat himself or herself to fill the belly=individual karma.one cannot see other eat and fill his belly.at the most you have a dristhi thripthi.

so,collective karma is bunkum.

sb

 

[sapr333]

11))sapr333,if ss has taken the role of karmic -magistrate,what is your role?kulur-kancha-fier ROFL



22))kshatriya dharmam is different.>>



33)))hitler was a psychopath,who was used by other psychopaths who blamed the jews for killing jesus christ.but in actuality jesus was killed by jews themselves using romans..
sb

1) I just used the term "Karmic-Magistrate to question the authority of man over god/karma.. But I wonder why you dragged Kancha in between.. Btw, whats Kulur & fier ROFL... didnt find those vocabs in websters.


22) If Kshatriya's dharmam is different, then are you ready to accept my view, thats 'Dharma is not universal, and its only individual".. Lets seek opinion with the scholarrs out here, cos, just like 'Group karma', this also would become an interesting topic for us to discuss.

33) Hitler was not a psychopath. . He too had some good ideology set towards developments of his 'Aryan Race and Germany',but he was focussed mainly on Germany's economical superiority.. He didnt kill the Jews alone.. He gassed even the handicapped Germans, gays,old men and women,tuberculosis patients etc etc,cos he felt that they are liablities to German economy.[/U][/U]

 

[s007bala]

re

1) I just used the term "Karmic-Magistrate to question the authority of man over god/karma.. But I wonder why you dragged Kancha in between.. Btw, whats Kulur & fier ROFL... didnt find those vocabs in websters.

i do not know your nationality.but these terms are ind-lish as well as tam-lish,only people belonging to these local regions will understand this language.

22) If Kshatriya's dharmam is different, then are you ready to accept my view, thats 'Dharma is not universal, and its only individual".. Lets seek opinion with the scholarrs out here, cos, just like 'Group karma', this also would become an interesting topic for us to discuss.

there is only one kshatriya dharmam.people of equal stature fight,unlike whats seen today.this is perverted kshatriya dharmam.there is no such thing as group karma.its like blaming the enitre jews for killing jesus christ-=how idiotic is that.

33) Hitler was not a psychopath. . He too had some good ideology set towards developments of his 'Aryan Race and Germany',but he was focussed mainly on Germany's economical superiority.. He didnt kill the Jews alone.. He gassed even the handicapped Germans, gays,old men and women,tuberculosis patients etc etc,cos he felt that they are liablities to German economy.

there is only one race=humanity.this aryan,dravidian,caucasian-asian,american,indian...etc is 'balls' and bull shit.whether hitler the butler gassed his momma and poppa or many of humanity,is a question for the jews who suffered just like brahmins who underwent genocide.hindus are undergoing genocide by other minority who is killing their culture.even though hindus ruled the world,today even in their homeland they are held ransom by minorities.

india is pledged by our leaders.the common man is also not bothered anymore.in fact if china attacks india,india will again lose the war.

sb

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

Rather, it should be God/Brahma's decision.. He is the final judge and absolute Legislator..

Seshadri,Correct me if im wrong!

i reply to this post, as it has a sense of inquiry to it... (at least i think so)...

if we attribute everything to a supreme entity called god, then all our actions become immaterial, since all our actions would be meddled in, by an umbrella entity... and nobody can be a judge of the other... hence, it attributes no intelligent consequences to our actions; then the "individual will" is only a misnomer... (but there are people who believe it this way)... this has a positive effect too, in that, by engaging in dharmic acts and not judging on its merit or result, the mind is involuntarily led to a state of detached attachment...

if we attribute a supreme entity as the final arbitrater in case of conflicting karmas, then again, by interfering in a natural logic, by putting in a voluntary effort, the law of karma is violated... but again, there are instances where a supreme entity has absorbed karmaphalas (if something merges into infinity, it becomes infinity) of various bhakthas... (like krishna interfering in various ways, in the sequel of events preceding the mahabharatha war)... but then, it is not always so, as such obvious interference (guidance) is less as yuga changes... probably it depends on the bent of mind of individuals... certain small interferences could have happened and continue to happen... but it would be difficult for us to comprehend it fully due to our inherent doshas... also, if a supreme being were given to interfere, it would only fuel our expectations, leading to disappointments, frustrations and eventually leading to more karmic acts... hence, the idea of god meddling in karmic affairs is best left to his own decision... but is not guaranteed!

if we see the law of karma as that which enables us to prepare for the next level of consciousness, then it follows that a supreme being does not interfere with individual will, but gives the knowledge/means to attain a higher level; here an athma is allowed to mature on its own... through various cycles of experiences... when all karmic effects are mitigated, the athma becomes pure or dosha-less; divine knowledge or knowledge of godhood is apparent... some equate this state of divine knowledge with godhood itself!

 

[sapr333]

i reply to this post, as it has a sense of inquiry to it... (at least i think so)...

if we attribute everything to a supreme entity called god, then all our actions become immaterial, since all our actions would be meddled in, by an umbrella entity... and nobody can be a judge of the other... hence, it attributes no intelligent consequences to our actions; then the "individual will" is only a misnomer... (but there are people who believe it this way)... this has a positive effect too, in that, by engaging in dharmic acts and not judging on its merit or result, the mind is involuntarily led to a state of detached attachment... !

Seshadri, thanks indeed for sharing your thought in a detailed way.. Trust me, before responding your post, I must have read, re-read your post for more than 10times.. or 15 minutes of thinking to respond back... Here I go..

Im reitrating my point..Im attributing all our judgments to an Absolute Magistrate..Say Brahma..

You also infered, any one can do evil and attribute it for the magistrate to decide later after death. Also you inferred, that could lead to detachments.. Contrarily, we dont have that ' Absolute Magistrate' living amonst us, to give judgements on daily basis.. Both ends are not met..

But then, you would agree with me, that, if not a 'Visible Absolute Magistrate' , we may call it as Brahma, is not living with us in this universe, to 'Judge our actions' on daily basis, I feel, there exists an 'Universal Law' handed down by him, for us to judge ourselves, based upon his "Book of Law".. I call this as, 'Morals are definitely rooted in Brahma'..I was driving this point some 300 posts before.... Brahma has given us the law.

PS: Im not sure how good I have articulated my point of view, but please feel free to share your counter=views on this, if you have any.. Thanks.

 

[sapr333]

Post # 485

sb

Bala, I dont find any meaning in that post, so ,I stay away from responding to that.. No bad feelings!!

As I said earlier, this place is not here to win arguements, or put down some one else with articulation or to prove an ideolgy..Neither a place to seek an award from blog moderator nor a hall of G.D in IIM..

Rather, lets take this as a platform to enhance our knowledge/learn something new/reconcile with the difference/ or engage in a dialogue..

 

[s007bala]

re

Seshadri, thanks indeed for sharing your thought in a detailed way.. Trust me, before responding your post, I must have read, re-read your post for more than 10times.. or 15 minutes of thinking to respond back... Here I go..

Im reitrating my point..Im attributing all our judgments to an Absolute Magistrate..Say Brahma..

You also infered, any one can do evil and attribute it for the magistrate to decide later after death. Also you inferred, that could lead to detachments.. Contrarily, we dont have that ' Absolute Magistrate' living amonst us, to give judgements on daily basis.. Both ends are not met..

But then, you would agree with me, that, if not a 'Visible Absolute Magistrate' , we may call it as Brahma, is not living with us in this universe, to 'Judge our actions' on daily basis, I feel, there exists an 'Universal Law' handed down by him, for us to judge ourselves, based upon his "Book of Law".. I call this as, 'Morals are definitely rooted in Brahma'..I was driving this point some 300 posts before.... Brahma has given us the law.

PS: Im not sure how good I have articulated my point of view, but please feel free to share your counter=views on this, if you have any.. Thanks.

that is why aachaaryals exist amongst us=guru.

siva is the destroyer of avidya=ignorance as the lordship.thereby creating vidya,whose lordship is brahmaa.to maintain the creativity is the sustainer that is vishnu lordship.the karma phala is determined by these consciouness inherent within us.in actuality we become siva,brahmaa,vishnu=inherently divine in nature.for all three consciouness to manifest is only thru parvathi,saraswathi,lakshmi=shakthi=energy=inherently living pranam.

the buddist took notes from hindus and created a school and call it buddhism with a twist.similiarly jainism.similiarly sikhism.similiarly abrahamic faiths.

sb

 

[sapr333]

11))that is why aachaaryals exist amongst us=guru.


22)the buddist took notes from hindus and created a school and call it buddhism with a twist.similiarly jainism.similiarly sikhism.similiarly abrahamic faiths.

sb

11) If you wish to believe me that Aachaaryals represent "Absolute Magistrate" then you have to convince me in the following...

aa) Does Brahma have an exclusive loving relationship and communion (only) with Aacharyals of this mankind? And to Achaaryas only he shares his law book of 'Absolute Justice' on daily basis.

bb) Please go through the entire vedas, and enlighten me, how Brahma has revealed his justice modus operandi, to this mankind.. Is it through Events,Actions,Parables (or) conveyed just through Aacharyals.


22) I'm not sure how buddhists/Christians/Moslems copied Hindu doctrines.. If its true, I can only feel glad about it...

But then you need to prove your point here, than making stale comments..
Which part/doctrine of hinduism was copied?

Secondly, what's wrong in someone following(I stay away from using the word copy) the goodness of Hinduism? What exactly is your problem here? Please spell it out.

 

[Seshadri Subramaniam]

sapr333, let me put it this way:

assuming that a brahman did exist - and creation is just a thought for it, but a truth for us... then, it was only an explanation (or knowledge) that was disseminated... that these are the senses (or capabilities) and that one can perceive differently using one's intelligence... in such a case, working logically backwards, by discarding all that which was given, we come face to face with brahman...

assuming that the brahman itself manifested, to perceive itself in different forms and levels, using a certain intelligence (logic), then the knowledge of its transformation is inherently present in each form - known (manifest) or unknown (latent)... existence is but an experience...

laws and morals are binding only so long we remain within the realm of the senses...

 

[s007bala]

re

11) If you wish to believe me that Aachaaryals represent "Absolute Magistrate" then you have to convince me in the following...

aachaaryals=guru=teacher=one who removes you from ignorance in your spiritual path.aacharyaals are not absolute magistarte.they exist in courts paid salary by tax payers money.whereas aachaaryals exist to foster amity,peace and harmony in society ,using vedas,upanishads,....etc.

aa) Does Brahma have an exclusive loving relationship and communion (only) with Aacharyals of this mankind? And to Achaaryas only he shares his law book of 'Absolute Justice' on daily basis.

despite explaining you what is siva,brahmaa,vishnu,parvathi,saraswathi,lakshmi,if you cannot understand my explanation,then,i will stop explaining to you.

bb) Please go through the entire vedas, and enlighten me, how Brahma has revealed his justice modus operandi, to this mankind.. Is it through Events,Actions,Parables (or) conveyed just through Aacharyals.

its not for me to go thru vedams,but its you who needs education.so,kindly do what you write to me.thnx.apparently kancha will explain to you,so ask him?.

22) I'm not sure how buddhists/Christians/Moslems copied Hindu doctrines.. If its true, I can only feel glad about it...

i have never said copied,but instead sanathana dharma is the root,and like a tree has grown with many branches sprouting.

But then you need to prove your point here, than making stale comments..
Which part/doctrine of hinduism was copied?

which part has not been absorbed in various philosophical religions of the world?

Secondly, what's wrong in someone following(I stay away from using the word copy) the goodness of Hinduism? What exactly is your problem here? Please spell it out.

firstly there is nothing wrong.I have no problems,as i am a haapy sanatani dharmi enjoying life.:hungry:

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

sapr333, let me put it this way:

assuming that a brahman did exist - and creation is just a thought for it, but a truth for us... then, it was only an explanation (or knowledge) that was disseminated... that these are the senses (or capabilities) and that one can perceive differently using one's intelligence... in such a case, working logically backwards, by discarding all that which was given, we come face to face with brahman...

assuming that the brahman itself manifested, to perceive itself in different forms and levels, using a certain intelligence (logic), then the knowledge of its transformation is inherently present in each form - known (manifest) or unknown (latent)... existence is but an experience...

laws and morals are binding only so long we remain within the realm of the senses...

ss

beautifully written.well said.but consciusness exists as pure consciousness,so say the wise.

sb

 

[sapr333]

sapr333, let me put it this way:

assuming that a brahman did exist - and creation is just a thought for it, but a truth for us... then, it was only an explanation (or knowledge) that was disseminated... .

Seshadri,

If Brahman doesnt exist, ie, Supreme doesnt exist, then there is no question ,for having a supreme judge/dharma judge, subsequently, we humans dont have any accountablity for all our good/evil..Rather, we may not have someone to tell us, whats good and whats evil..

Why one should get worried about raping and looting others? Or why one whould strive to do good to others? We can have a jungle law too, where the powerful survive. But its not the same with mankind..There is some accountablity deep within us. And to whoom we share this accountablity.. Just to a law of karma (which even animals dont agree with) or we can frame some other law of Jungle Karma which claims killing as many to fill the belly is the best karmic..If its a cosmic law, then, still there should be a cosmic law enforcing agent.. Who is that universal law enforcer?

So there should be some one, who will have the authority to judge these Absolute Good and "Absolute Justice' or Absolute Legislator or Absolute Karma governor.. And that responsiblity is attributed to Brahma.

 

[sapr333]

ss

beautifully written.well said.but consciusness exists as pure consciousness,so say the wise.

sb

Dont forget, you need to philosophically answer to the thought of 'Free Will" also..

 

[s007bala]

Seshadri,

If Brahman doesnt exist, ie, Supreme doesnt exist, then there no question for having a supreme judge/dharma judge, subsequently, we humans dont have any accountablity for all our good/evil..

Why one should get worried about raping and looting others? Or why one whould strive to do good to others? We can have a jungle law too, where the powerful survive. But its not the same with mankind..There is some accountablity deep within us. And to whoom we share this accountablity.. Just to a law of karma (which even animals dont agree with) or we can frame some other law of Jungle Karma which claims killing as many to fill the belly is the best karmic..

So there should be some one, who will have the authority to judge these Absolute Good and "Absolute Justice' or Absolute Legislator or Absolute Karma governor.. And that responsiblity is attributed to Brahma.

sapr333

'there should be someone'=yes there is someone.he/she resided in everything=sarvam brahmaa mayam.

we give responsibility,thereby creating hierarchies.each one of us are responsible.i am responsible too,for the deaths of 6000 american soldiers in iraq & afgahnistan becoz i have paid my taxes wherein politicians have taken salary.i am indirectly responsible for the deaths,for the decision of c-in-chief.

similiarly i am indirectly responsible for the millions of iraqis who have died during this war on terrorism.becoz my c-in-chief waged this war and i could not change his decision,as i believed thinking he is telling the truth.i erred in my judgement,so i have accrued ill-gotten karma in my debit account and my credit balance is reduced.

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

Dont forget, you need to philosophically answer to the thought of 'Free Will" also..

my research has led me to believe that karma=33% and free will=77%.the guru helps in both karma as well as free will.my gurus help me,this is a living fact for me.without them,i am no-body=aham brhamasmi=i am not this body but a free spirit aatma.

sb

 

[sapr333]

sapr333

'there should be someone'=yes there is someone.he/she resided in everything=sarvam brahmaa mayam.

we give responsibility,thereby creating hierarchies.each one of us are responsible.i am responsible too,for the deaths of 6000 american soldiers in iraq & afgahnistan becoz i have paid my taxes wherein politicians have taken salary.i am indirectly responsible for the deaths,for the decision of c-in-chief.


sb

Unless its a sarcasm, I hope, from your own words,that,you are voluntarily getting agreed to my point that, Collective/Group karma do exist... Just anwerer me with an Yes/No..

Upon that I can head on with an interesting question..



PS: I havent responded to some of your recent posts, cos I didnt find worthy to the subject we are discussing about.. Take it easy.

 

[sapr333]

my research has led me to believe that karma=33% and free will=77%.the guru helps in both karma as well as free will.my gurus help me,this is a living fact for me.without them,i am no-body=aham brhamasmi=i am not this body but a free spirit aatma.

sb

When you believe God is "You" and 'Within Yourselves', then why you need a guru to advocate or help in exploring God...

Saying in tamil goes, "Keeping the child in armpit, and searching for her around the streets"...


Bala, please ponder.

 

[s007bala]

re

Unless its a sarcasm, I hope, from your own words,that,you are voluntarily getting agreed to my point that, Collective/Group karma do exist... Just anwerer me with an Yes/No..

no.

Upon that I can head on with an interesting question..

PS: I havent responded to some of your recent posts, cos I didnt find worthy to the subject we are discussing about.. Take it easy.

you are more than welcome to respond or not respond.all of us have our freedom or free will.i have no sarcasm or hatred in my writings,plz do not mis-understand.comprehend with a lots of love ,affection spoken with a soft voice delievery....as the inner chatter within a human is also important for comprehension.

sb

 

[s007bala]

re

When you believe God is "You" and 'Within Yourselves', then why you need a guru to advocate or help in exploring God...

Saying in tamil goes, "Keeping the child in armpit, and searching for her around the streets"...


Bala, please ponder.

ha ha...i studied pre-school,kg,K12,undergraduation,Mastars,Phd....similiarly in spiritual education,you start from the lowest awareness untill you come to comprehend 'nirguna'brahman'=formless god=omnipotent=omniscient=the be it and end of it all=sarvam ishvara prapthi or srishthi.

for those who are still unable to grasp the vidya

Asatho Ma Sathgamaya,

Thamaso Ma Jyothirgamaya

Mruthyorma Amrithamgamaya

Lead me towards truth from untruth
Lead me towards light from darkness
Lead me towards immortality from Death

guru is kavacham.i need guru even now and my gurus stand by me.'jo bhi ho raha hai tumhare baley ke liye hi hora raha hai==whatever is happening for you ,its happenning for your own good only=sathya sai baba.

sb