Worshipping while Menstruating: What's wrong in it?

[prasad1]

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Even in historic times, menstruation was seen as a time to seclude women from the household. In Mahabharata, it is said that Draupadi was menstruating during her ‘vastra-haran’, and that is why she was in separate quarters, and wearing a single piece of cloth before taking her ritual bath, when she was dragged by Dushasana. Not much has changed since then because even today, girls are asked to stay away from rituals, temples, and anything remotely 'holy'. No touching, because then everything will become 'impure'.
Mensturation is stigmatized in our society. This stigma built up due to traditional beliefs in impurity of menstruating women and our unwillingness to discuss it normally. We don't know what may have been the reason that forced the holy men to refer to menstruating women as 'unclean'. But almost all religions refer to menstruating woman as 'ritually unclean'. The society shies away from discussing menstruation. This leads to a lot of inconvenience for young girls. They aren't informed well; hence they tend to hold several misconceptions. Many women are supposed to not cook food, or enter the kitchen during this time. It started as a period of rest, but then turned to forced seclusion. In some cultures, if a girl practices some art form, like singing, or dancing, she is not supposed to touch her instruments at that time. "She might be robbed of her talent", they are told. Things are worst in tribal cultures, where women are forced to live in cowsheds, without proper sanitation and hygiene.

In some Hindu groups a girl should not visit a temple or offer prayers while she is menstruating. According to these beliefs and customs a girl who has periods is impure and hence, should not even touch anything that shall be given as an offering to God. They also cannot take part in the religious ceremonies. But if logic is taken into consideration it is something that is given by God himself. It is the biological key to a woman's motherhood. So how can this be impure?

Some of the rules defined for Rajaswala woman in our religious scriptures include – she should practice celebacy during the period; she should not sleep in day time; she should not apply kohl to her eyes; she should not weep or cry; she should not bath; she should not take oil massage or use any scented thing; she should not speak or hear loud words; she should not comb or dress her hair; she should not stand amidst fast blowing wind; she should not cut her nails and so on.....

Mayan mythology explains the origin of menstruation as a punishment for violating the social rules governing marital alliance. The menstrual blood turns into snakes and insects used in black sorcery, before the Maya moon goddess is reborn from it. In Judaism and Christianity, the latter derives from the first, it is of the punishment for the disobedience of Eve who would eat of the Forbidden Fruit to know of the difference between good and evil.

Excuse me! But in Hinduism womb is considered sacred


Do you know that the reason why women do not prostrate themselves by laying flat on the floor like the men, but kneel and bow instead, is because the scriptures state that it is offensive to lay the womb on the floor because it is “the cradle of humanity,” in each and every woman. So our wombs are considered so sacred that the Gods Themselves find it offensive if you lay your womb on the floor to worship them. Then how can Gods really discriminate?

This whole humdrum is not just related with any particular religion. Some forbid them from entering temples or mosques, some restrict their physical and social behavior, different religions have different type of restrictions. There are many justifications for why these restrictions were introduced. Some of these explanations sound logical and must have been relevant to that era and time but the strange part is even after so much progress in the area of sanitation and personal hygiene many people still practice these things.
Worshipping while Menstruating: What's wrong in it? | Faith And Rituals Blog on Speakingtree.in


Apologists will say that I am questioning what is written in scripture, so be it.
I am talking from social point of view, and subjugation of women.

 

[biswa]

In the past some forum members have described how they have not allowed their wives to remain celibate during the menstrual period. That sounds like oppression / exploitation / blackmail and does not indicate liberation of women.

 

[renuka]

The uterus undergoes cyclical changes monthly due the effects of Estrogen and Progesterone...these hormones cause the cell lining of the uterus(the endometrium) to build up layer by layer preparing the uterus for a possible pregnancy..now if the ova released during ovulation does NOT undergo fertilization by a spermatozoa then the cell lining of the endometrium starts to shed at about 14 days after that and that is what we call menstruation.

Menstrual blood is made up of endometrial lining that is rich in nutrients and substrate that would have cradled the embryo if it had formed..so if Menstruatio is considered IMPURE that would mean that we humans start off our lives in an impure situation?? Does not make sense right? For all the talk about Union of Male and Female being a Yagna itself..just to start off in an IMPURE setting?

Back to the past..in the past there was no mode of any sterile and hygenic methods to handle menstruation cos there was no home bathrooms and washrooms and people had to bathe in a pond or river..so it would not have been conducive to let females out these times to use the river or ponds and further more since there were no proper sanitary pads they had to be confined in a particular room to avoid embarrassing situation.

BTW the religious Unclean Time Frame for menstruation if 3 days if I am not wrong but a normal menstrual cycle is about 3 days to 7 days and some can even have for 10 days..but since Hindus only observe 3 days as unclean period one can conclude that women of India in the past were undernourished and anemic and only an undernourishment and anemia would render a very short cycle of 2 -3 days in most of the time...hence that would have led to the 3 day Unclean Time Frame.

But these days woman are hardly anemic and menses might even be 4-6 days ..so what about the extra 2 or 3 days? Is that considered pure or impure?

In Islam the Unclean Time Frame is as long the bleeding persists..so for them the Unclean Time Frame can range from 2 days to even 10 days.

Coming to physical strength during menses..in a young girl she might feel as energetic as ever but as a woman ages she might feel a bit tired during menses and hence some rest is advocated..so that is why in the past may be women were given the days off from housework to rest. Some woman also have dysmenorrhea which causes very painful cramps and some might need even bed rest.

As a doctor I see the absenteeism of women from work during the first 2 days of menses is very high and many come to see doctors for medication and sick leave.

Coming to the prayer part during menses in a present day modern set up personally I do not believe in any restrictions of any sorts..cos prayer is actually a mental mode of worship more than anything else.

 

[renuka]

In the past some forum members have described how they have not allowed their wives to remain celibate during the menstrual period. That sounds like oppression / exploitation / blackmail and does not indicate liberation of women.

You would be surprised to know that some women feel a spike in their sex drive during menses..partly becos one knows during menses a pregnancy is unlikely and that gives the woman a free devil may care feeling to indulge in sexual intercourse with gay abandon.

BTW it depends on your definition of sexual celibacy cos sexual act is also possible without engaging the reproductive tract.

 

[tbs]

hi

i heard that the famous kaamakhya temple near gawhati in assam...this temple closes 3 days in month.....it is devi temple....

even ppl witness some blood after 3 days inside the temple...its famous devi temple....mrs RR madam can put some more on it...

becoz she visited the temple recently....

 

[CHANDRU1849]

During the initial stages of all Religions, the founders and followers could not find definite answers for certain things; of which one is the above. For example, we have stories on Lunar and Solar Eclipses. Development of Science in all fields, has broken lot of myths associated with Religions.

Medical world has given a clear explanation for the incidence of menstruation and it is the individual's choice to decide the course of action.

Using left hand was also considered as inauspicious.

A Mridangam legend of 20th century was initially ignored by leading vocalists because he used his left side for the main side. Since he was very talented, he became a regular accompanist for some of the greatest vocalists of his time subsequently. Now, lot of Mridangam artists are using left hand for the main side.

The left hand myth was also shown in the 1967 tamil film 'OOTY VARAI OORAVU'. Sivaji's, who was the hero of the film, sister L Vijayalakshmi, was depicted as left hander. The hero thought it was a disease and required treatment. Of course, the medical world proved the reason for using left hand.

Since scientific development is a continuous process, it may not be surprise if medical world comes with some startling revelations about men in the coming years, like menstruation in the case of women.

 

[sarang]

If the temple has a sign on entry restrictions to women, that must be respected. Many young girls follow the rules and do not enter the temples on those days.

 

[renuka]

But what about Mental Impurity? How are we to know who is mentally pure or not?

So since everyone with pure or impure mind is allowed anywhere..I feel no big issue need to be made about menstruation.

 

[Ramacchandran]

The teple is a place where diseases are cured with NaNo technology! Passing light rays through copper images. These rays will affect the womb!

 

[prasad1]

The teple is a place where diseases are cured with NaNo technology! Passing light rays through copper images. These rays will affect the womb!

Sir,
You have lot of faith, or you are misinformed. Just because a superstition has been there, it does not become true. A women has a womb all the time (till it is removed). So are you saying that women should not do prayers? What Nano technology are you talking about? What copper images?

 

[Ramacchandran]

I am not a woman and let few women visit temples and pooja rooms in their house and post the effect.

 

[prasad1]

I am not a woman and let few women visit temples and pooja rooms in their house and post the effect.

What does it mean? Are you saying that after they have been struck by your "Nano power" or "copper rays" they can give their experience? Most of the women in a traditional TB family are not the rebels, so even if they think it is meaningless, they are not going to break traditions. Just because it is a tradition, it is not the law of the land. One can follow any "tradition" they want to follow in their home, but you can expect others to follow it.

 

[Raji Ram]

Just a thought which came in my mind!

Non brahmins follow the traditions much better than the brahmins.

Hats off to them! :yo:

P.S: Some of us find happiness in 'vithandA vAdham'!

 

[renuka]

I am not a woman and let few women visit temples and pooja rooms in their house and post the effect.

Dear Sir,

I am a living evidence ...I am perfectly fine with a perfectly healthy body and had no problem conceiving at all.

I find the Nano copper theory not evidence based cos you see menses takes almost 24 hours to start its first trickle down..so a woman might not yet bleed but internal uterine bleeding would have started 24 hours before..,for example internal bleeding would have started today for a woman but she will only exhibits external bleeding tomorrow.

So going by your theory a woman who is in a temple right now who has not started any external bleeding but already commenced internal bleeding would be affected by your Nano copper theory.

If you are right that means females should never go to a temple or may be start wearing a Dosimeter to a temple cos God knows next someone might come up with a radioactive theory.

 

[prasad1]

Meaningless "traditions" are followed more by uneducated or superstitious people. Intelligent human being is willing to listen to meaningful explanations and is not afraid to break useless superstitions.

Traditions are the chains to bind us down, particularly women. Sometimes it is golden chain, and some other time it is barbed wire. Look around you In saudi a women can not travel alone. She can not drive, or be seen in public withou a vail. Who made these "traditions" men.

Foot binding is the custom of applying painfully tight binding to the feet of young girls to prevent further growth. The practice possibly originated among upper-class court dancers during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period in Imperial China , but spread in the Song Dynasty and eventually became common among all but the lowest of classes. Foot binding became popular as a means of displaying status (women from wealthy families who did not need them to work could afford to have their feet bound) and was correspondingly adopted as a symbol of beauty in Chinese culture.


The Manchu Emperor Kangxi tried to ban footbinding in 1664 but failed. In the 1800s (19th century), Chinese reformers challenged the practice but it was not until the early 20th century that foot binding began to die out, partly from changing social conditions and partly as a result of anti-foot binding campaigns. Foot-binding resulted in lifelong disabilities for most of its subjects, and some elderly Chinese women still survive today with disabilities related to their bound feet.

 

[Vaagmi]

Just a thought which came in my mind!

Non brahmins follow the traditions much better than the brahmins.

Hats off to them! :yo:

P.S: Some of us find happiness in 'vithandA vAdham'!

Thathaasthu.

 

[sarang]

A sane voice in the din of anti superstition modernists.

A side story. Some months ago, rationalist and anti superstition crusader was murdered in pune. Anti superstition bill was passed by the maharashtra government. Perpetrators of this heinous crime have not been apprehended and the police has no clue to proceed. There was a report a couple of days ago, that the police have sought the help of a tantric for guidance.

Just a thought which came in my mind!

Non brahmins follow the traditions much better than the brahmins.

Hats off to them! :yo:

P.S: Some of us find happiness in 'vithandA vAdham'!

 

[prasad1]

Some people take cover of "tradition" to hide from facts.

Galileo's support for the heliocentric theory (note that this is Copernicus's theory, not Galileo's) got him into trouble with the Roman Catholic Church. In 1633 the Inquisition convicted him of heresy and forced him to recant (publicly withdraw) his support of Copernicus. They sentenced him to life imprisonment, but because of his advanced age allowed him serve his term under house arrest at his villa in Arcetri outside of Florence. Addendum Heliocentrism is the theory that the Sun is at the center of the Solar System as opposed to geocentrism, the Church supported theory which put the Earth at the center of the Solar System.

These self styled "traditionalist" who are against any rational explanation, are like the Roman catholic Church, and want to live in ignorance, and will try to muzzle any voice of reason.

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad ji,

You know actually TB forum is a fairly rational forum..I happened to revisit another forum which I had not gone to in a long time and by just writing that "evolution of thought of early man deified the forces of nature and gave them names..like Vayu for wind..Agni for Fire and later these deification were worshiped as Gods"...Then someone there mentioned that its insulting to keep a Hindu Nandi's idol in a Shiridi Sai Baba temple and I explained that Nandi is symbolic of Jeeva Atma and Nandi as in an idol is a member of the Bovine species that does not come with an organized religion..for all these almost everyone is pissed mad with me and big time fighting with me!LOL

So that way TB forum is actually kind of rational even though we do find orthodox minded individuals who are yet willing to debate with a fairly reasonable mind....in other forums there is almost no scope for any discussion like what you started.I think if you had posted this in that forum..all guys would have declared a Jihad against you!LOL

So I guess TB forum is still actually very very rational and open minded.

 

[Raji Ram]

If the modern mind thinks that 'those three days' are also as good as the normal days, the girls can go to temples (but please
don't tell the priest about this!) and even get married with periods since the Homam will not become impure because of this! eace:

 

[Raji Ram]

There are certain norms to be followed in public places. We can't afford to eat like a 'pattikAdu' when we go to a five star hotel.

Similarly temples have set some traditions which are to be followed. We can do whatever we want in our own house but can't

extend the same 'fundA' in public places. Just my two cents.

 

[sravna]

But what about Mental Impurity? How are we to know who is mentally pure or not?

So since everyone with pure or impure mind is allowed anywhere..I feel no big issue need to be made about menstruation.

Dear Renuka,

You are right. In the final analysis only mental purity matters. All the restrictions and physical rigor and the reason for all the rituals are meant for effect on the mind and improve it. But many lost direction and many got morphed that the real intent is missed.

 

[Vaagmi]

prasadji,

in the last few posts you have been highly critical of those whom you call "traditionalists". This reminds me of the term inflation. It is believed that economists put everything they do not understand about the economy into a basket and call it inflation. Please think about what I have given below;

1. When Descartes gave us the cartesian coordinates we were very gung ho about it thinking that that is the final truth. But only until Newton came on the scene. Post Newton we thought those who were caught within the Cartesian Mechanics were all "traditionalists". OK. Newtonian mechanics held sway for a number of years and we built several of the facets of our civilization on that basis right from billiards board to rocket engines and recoilless guns. Then came Max Planck and we bundled all those enthusiasts of Newtonian mechanics into the traditionalist bag and dumped them and went full throat for the quantum mechanics. And lo we now find QM does not explain everything and we wait for a string theory which ties up everything neatly. So QM people will become traditionalists soon.

2. Every tradition had a strong reason when it took shape over a period of time. And every tradition is replaced by another radically different tradition in course of time. There is nothing right or wrong about this. A tradition takes time to yield its place to a new comer. There is no use going hammer and tongs against a tradition because WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THAT OLDER TRADITION.

3. Among the sources of contamination blood is considered to be the most dangerous. I would like to stop with this because if I am to speak about reaction of olfactory nerve ends and about pheromone reactions I may be crossing the limits of this forum.

 

[prasad1]

prasadji,

in the last few posts you have been highly critical of those whom you call "traditionalists". This reminds me of the term inflation. It is believed that economists put everything they do not understand about the economy into a basket and call it inflation. Please think about what I have given below;

1. When Descartes gave us the cartesian coordinates we were very gung ho about it thinking that that is the final truth. But only until Newton came on the scene. Post Newton we thought those who were caught within the Cartesian Mechanics were all "traditionalists". OK. Newtonian mechanics held sway for a number of years and we built several of the facets of our civilization on that basis right from billiards board to rocket engines and recoilless guns. Then came Max Planck and we bundled all those enthusiasts of Newtonian mechanics into the traditionalist bag and dumped them and went full throat for the quantum mechanics. And lo we now find QM does not explain everything and we wait for a string theory which ties up everything neatly. So QM people will become traditionalists soon.

2. Every tradition had a strong reason when it took shape over a period of time. And every tradition is replaced by another radically different tradition in course of time. There is nothing right or wrong about this. A tradition takes time to yield its place to a new comer. There is no use going hammer and tongs against a tradition because WE REALLY DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THAT OLDER TRADITION.

3. Among the sources of contamination blood is considered to be the most dangerous. I would like to stop with this because if I am to speak about reaction of olfactory nerve ends and about pheromone reactions I may be crossing the limits of this forum.

Sir,
May be traditionalist does not apply to you.
90+% of young people live in cramped quarters. 90+% of girls work full time out of the house. 90+% of young couple in India and abroad can not follow the traditions of 1000 years ago not even 50 years ago. Then there are MEN talking of traditions that are outdated, inconvenient and downright wrong.

Things that worked at one time may not work now. Just as you pointed out that in science we have to move on with newer theories, and put away the old theories. Similarly in society we have to evolve with the time instead of holding on to old ideas. When Kerosene stoves came the old coal angiti vanished, similarly when Gas became available we adopted them. Thank fully we put away the cow dung wash of ADDUP days. The customs do get out dated, it is only the enlightened who are willing to accept them.

I remember 50 years ago a neighborhood mami in Delhi used to sit in the cold Delhi Garage (for three days), with unkept hair shivering in her woolen Kambli, and eating food sitting on floor. I am pretty sure she was traditionalist, an embarrassment to other south Indian who had to explain that scene to North Indian friends.

Similarly my grandmother was married when she was 3 years old, and my mother married when she was 13. My mother moved to NI when she was just entering puberty. She followed the customs, but with the modifications, because my father was open to changes. If MEN are more considerate of their female family members these SUPERFLUOUS "traditions" change.

The law changed and child marriage was abolished. The law changed and "Sati" was abolished.

Raja Ram Mohan Roy is known as the 'Maker of Modern India'. He was the founder of the Brahmo Samaj, one of the first Indian socio-religious reform movements. He played a major role in abolishing the role of Sati. Raja Rammohan Roy was a great scholar and an independent thinker.

We do not need laws to change to abolish barbaric practices. We should be mature enough to accommodate the updated norms.

You might have reason to practice some traditions (I have read your explanation of Aswamedha Yagna), it does not mean that is the only explanation. I have seen TB's doing yagams where Animal sacrifice was performed in 20th century. I think it was just an excuse to eat goat (Or may be ignorance). You might have convinced yourself that we Hindus were and are the pious people, and our traditions are sanctioned by our scriptures. I am not convinced of that theory. So we might have differing standards.
I generally do not argue a point with you as you are highly qualified poster. I may not agree with your views sometimes, and some other times it is beyond my pay grade to understand you.

When Morarji Desai then PM of India visited UK, and was explaining the tradition of drinking one's own urine, I was not bemused.

If one has nasty tradition of torturing one's wife and children, they should stay away from western world. Or They might arrest that person for domestic violence. Then the "traditions" will not save that person.

I am pretty sure you are not one to follow every superstitions, like some one member here proclaims. I am sure that if your child is bitten by a cobra, you will try to get the best medical help you can get, instead of prayers like this member suggested. That is where "rubber meets the road", a true test of "traditions" and modernist.

Idiom Definitions for 'Where the rubber meets the road'
Where the rubber meets the road is the most important point for something, the moment of truth. An athlete can train all day, but the race is where the rubber meets the road and they'll know how good they really are.

 

[renuka]

If the modern mind thinks that 'those three days' are also as good as the normal days, the girls can go to temples (but please
don't tell the priest about this!) and even get married with periods since the Homam will not become impure because of this! eace:

Dear RR ji,

The wedding date is set sometimes 6 months earlier cos we have to book a hall etc..last minute dates are just not possible and we have no idea if that date will actually fall on a day where a person is having menses...No one asks the bride if she would be having her menses on that wedding date.

I know some brides that actually come for medication to post pone their menses and some with irregular menses just sit thru it cos the marriage is NOT held in a temple but held in a hall.

BTW even the guest that come to the wedding hall could be having their menses.

Some people I know believe that the subtle unproven vibrations of a woman changes during menses and its considered impure..but at a certain given time in this world somebody or the other is menstruating and how far is it impure radius??
No one really knows.

That way I find Sikhism very 'scientific" cos for them a menstruating woman can enter the temple and pray cos menses is just considered a biological function..

BTW RR ji ..how can fire become impure? Fire is called Pavaka....Purifier so even microbes stand no chance of surviving.

On the other hand if we want to follow the Puranas....Goddess Parvati had cursed Agni to lose his form and will have to eat everything..pure and impure..so even if menses makes the Homam Fire impure..on technical grounds that would be part of the curse of Pravati.