Worshipping while Menstruating: What's wrong in it?

[Vaagmi]

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Just because medical treatment is not available at the site of accidents, should be just be sitting on our hands? Thankfully medical treatments are readily available in most of the urban areas (it might cost). So your treatment for those who can not get treatment it is "ram Bharose". A sure prescription of a defeatist.

What kind of nonsense is this. Please come to my native place which is in the southern district of Tirunelveli. I will take you to my paddy field which stretches for about 4 acres and is surrounded by other stretches of paddy fields. I will take you to the middle of the paddy field. I will ask you to imagine a snake bite to yourself. Then please start running. You will reach the nearest civilization point after 1 hour if you keep running all the while. In such situations suck and spit first aid (note it is only a first aid and not the final aid) saves life by extending the 30 minutes time available between death and survival. In the paddy fields medical treatment is not readily available and it is in these fields that most of the snakebites occur resulting in death in rural India.

What do you suggest? If someone in the field is bitten, take him to the nearest hospital or primary health centre even if it is more than 1 hour away and finally get the post mortem done when you reach there? or leave him to "ram Bharose"? Who is a defeatist? One who gives first aid to retain the life tenaciously and takes the patient to nearest medical centre or one who just takes the fellow to the medical centre without first aid so that the fellow dies on the way-note only 29.5 minutes are required for the venom to neutralise your breathing system whatever be your body size.

Pragmatic people have been trying to improve the conditions of Indians for the last so many years and still we do not have refrigerators in the primary health centres which can work without electricity. Electricity is a mysterious commodity which is not found most of the days in rural areas of India today. My village suffers a 16 hour power outage every day, 7 days a week.

Yeah enough said.

 

[9868836164]

Sir,
It is not compulsory that mental impurity should be there. But some may feel it and others may not feel it. Due to the harmonal changes, many feelings and emotions may be there. Sometimes people may get annoyed, sometimes headache, sometme stomach ache, back pain, etc. Sometimes, they may feel like eating something. It is not advisable to strain the body . Considering all these, they are advised not to visit temple, etc.

 

[sarang]

Since the free entry advocates are keen to evade the question of their family members' attitude and action, more need not be said.

 

[prasad1]

I used to think Ok may be others religions focus too much on outward reasons and seldom focus much inward and was under the impression that Hinduism is more logic based but I am yet to see evidence for Hinduism being logic based these days.

Over to you.

Renukaji,
A large majority of "hindu" practice is not very Hindu in origin. Some people would claim that if they follow it, it is "sanctioned" by some Hindu scriptures. If you dig deeper you find that it is made up.
In Satyanarayan Puja they say

Shri Satyanarayana katha (narrative) comes from the Skandha purana, Reva kaanda. Suta Maharshi narrated these stories, in Neimishaaranya to the Rishis who were performing a 1,000 year yagna for the benefit of mankind lead by Shounakji. In the stories characters who ignored their promise to perform the puja after their wish had been fulfilled suffered as a result. Therefore one is to deduce that one must stick to the promise given to the Lord in exchange of the desire fulfilled by his grace. One is not to ignore or forget the Lord’s Grace.

But in skunda purana, Reva Kaanda is about pilgrimage. There is no mention of Satyanarayana in it. So some enterprising priest wrote the Katha, and just to give it authenticity put it in a Purana. And now the devotee thinks it really is sanctioned by "scriptures".

Just as the story of virgin birth in almost all over the world.
In Adi Shankar's words:

Pashannapi cha na pashyathi mooDo

.

 

[prasad1]

Sir,
It is not compulsory that mental impurity should be there. But some may feel it and others may not feel it. Due to the harmonal changes, many feelings and emotions may be there. Sometimes people may get annoyed, sometimes headache, sometme stomach ache, back pain, etc. Sometimes, they may feel like eating something. It is not advisable to strain the body . Considering all these, they are advised not to visit temple, etc.

Sir,
You are right, what is between me and my God is personal.
I think this is clearly depicted in:
Kannappa Nayanar-epitome of devotion
This story is in praise of one hunter who never learnt any holy scriptures and whose discipline was just to kill-hunt, who became an excellent example of devotion.By this time the sage Shivakochariyar was desperate ,he worshiped to the Lord to remove the person who was responsible for this misdeed. The Lord appeared in his dreams and said that the deeds of the person was a delight to him, the water he spit on him more sacred than the Ganges and the flowers he brought in his hair more holier than the offerings of God. He also asked Shivakochariyar to hide and see the true devotion of Thinnanar.

But I guess we accept what we want, provided it is "OUR" view and not others.

 

[tks]

Sir,
You are right, what is between me and my God is personal.
I think this is clearly depicted in:
Kannappa Nayanar-epitome of devotion
This story is in praise of one hunter who never learnt any holy scriptures and whose discipline was just to kill-hunt, who became an excellent example of devotion.By this time the sage Shivakochariyar was desperate ,he worshiped to the Lord to remove the person who was responsible for this misdeed. The Lord appeared in his dreams and said that the deeds of the person was a delight to him, the water he spit on him more sacred than the Ganges and the flowers he brought in his hair more holier than the offerings of God. He also asked Shivakochariyar to hide and see the true devotion of Thinnanar.

But I guess we accept what we want, provided it is "OUR" view and not others.

Sri Prasad

In the tradition that is being discussed, is worshipping and prayer itself is banned or is it only the mode of worship in a temple which is a gathering of people in a public setting.

The private matter of prayer can never be banned and it is not an enforceable thing anyway in any society.

I still do not understand why this tradition is viewed in such a negative light.

In all traditions under the Hindu banner the so called God is everywhere and not just sitting in a temple. However in a temple many people come together to join in the worship.

In many homes I know including our own out of respect for others we do not go to public places including schools, work places and other public area (like a temple) without taking a shower if at all possible. Temple visits being optional it is certainly possibly to go to such a place only after taking a shower.

In a public setting our actions can affect others. It is like brining one's cell phone to a meditation hall. If a place of worship prohibits cell phones that will not be a big deal. It is easy to understand the issues involved.


Mensturation is a phenomena that happens only for females in certain age group. Its impact on others is not known and studied scientifically in a thorough manner to know if there are merits to the anecdotes.


This tradition is viewed more negatively because we live in a culture of demands and rights. This tradition from that lens comes across as discriminatory since this tradition has seemingly violated the rights of menturating women from praying in a temple as opposed to home.

Of course there are no police to check who is mensturating because they are self enforced practices.
In a self enforced system what becomes important is our duty towards other citizens. One will automatically want to be clean in body and mind in entering a temple because it is our duty to act that way towards others in a public setting especially a temple.

I do not view this tradition as hard and fast rules but merely a reminder to our responsibility towards others.

If a young girl is say attending a Upanayanam function of say a friend or cousin and ends up getting a period - should she tell the world she is skipping out of attendance, or attend and stay away from certain areas but mingle at a distance or mingle freely. Is there actually a correct answer?

 

[prasad1]

Tksji,
In the OP I quoted the context:

Mensturation is stigmatized in our society. This stigma built up due to traditional beliefs in impurity of menstruating women and our unwillingness to discuss it normally. We don't know what may have been the reason that forced the holy men to refer to menstruating women as 'unclean'. But almost all religions refer to menstruating woman as 'ritually unclean'. The society shies away from discussing menstruation. This leads to a lot of inconvenience for young girls. They aren't informed well; hence they tend to hold several misconceptions. Many women are supposed to not cook food, or enter the kitchen during this time. It started as a period of rest, but then turned to forced seclusion. In some cultures, if a girl practices some art form, like singing, or dancing, she is not supposed to touch her instruments at that time. "She might be robbed of her talent", they are told. Things are worst in tribal cultures, where women are forced to live in cowsheds, without proper sanitation and hygiene.

It is not just in Tribal society, I have seen it being practiced in TB community in Delhi, and even in USA.

And advertise in public the reasons, as if it is a badge of Honor. If there was a "Scarlet letter" they would make their women wear it.

scarlet letter


1. (Historical Terms) a scarlet letter A formerly worn by a person convicted of adultery

If I do not like my neighbor, I do not have to invite him to a personal function at my home. But, if I am holding the block party in my house, I am obligated to invite him. Similarly I can not announce to the world as to why I do not want to see him in local WALMART, GYM, or at the workplace.

If the women does not want to do certain things, that is her call. Give her the freedom of choice without the stigma, or guilt, period or no period.

 

[tks]

Tksji,
In the OP I quoted the context:


It is not just in Tribal society, I have seen it being practiced in TB community in Delhi, and even in USA.

And advertise in public the reasons, as if it is a badge of Honor. If there was a "Scarlet letter" they would make their women wear it.


If I do not like my neighbor, I do not have to invite him to a personal function at my home. But, if I am holding the block party in my house, I am obligated to invite him. Similarly I can not announce to the world as to why I do not want to see him in local WALMART, GYM, or at the workplace.

If the women does not want to do certain things, that is her call. Give her the freedom of choice with the stigma, or guilt, period or no period.

Sri Prasad

I tend to agree with what you have stated - in today's world especially among more literate people there is no need to attach any stigma to a routine biological event which is part of nature. The stigma is caused by ignorance that can be removed by proper education of men and women.

Having said that Walmart or a gym is free to place certain requirements (dress code like need for shoes, not show up in your swim suit etc) .

Some places like walmart may not - I am sure you have seen pictures of real shoppers at Walmart . Here is a piece

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHuEGX4aqqE

So any temple can place requirements and there is no other enforcement mechanism other than what visitors do to abide by the guidelines. Such guidelines may not be originating out of ignorance or narrowness of mind.

Therefore education to remove stigma will lead to a more mature society.

Education is also needed to remove need to feel a sense of right to visit a temple against its guidelines.

 

[prasad1]

According to reports, about 75 percent of the women still shy away from buying sanitary pads and looks for alternatives such as getting them wrapped in newspapers or keeping them hidden in bags.


It is overwhelming to hear that 40 percent of women stay at home during 'that time of the month' and 65 percent don't wash their hair.


Living in the 21st century one should expect all primitive myths to be withered away by now, but that goes out of the window when one watches closely over the topic of menstruation.


Aditi Gupta, founder of Menstrupedia.com, claimed that one of the major issues, which hinder the awareness of the women, is inadequate education and the taboos that are attached to this sensitive issue.


Myths claim that women are 'impure' at this time of month and hence are not allowed inside kitchens or any holy place. The tyrannical burden of myths has overpowered women so much that they are forced to stay inside the home all the time.


Dr. Suneela Garg, a leading doctor in women's health, said that the way to fight these myths is to open up about it and not hush away from people during the periods. It is shameful to see that the condition of women has not enhanced over the ages on women still shy away from any question about periods directed towards them, she added.


Tanvi Azmi , an esteemed bollywood actress, believes that awareness is the key and that every girl should be given proper education on this topic at the correct age.


It is very heartwarming to hear that Whisper has taken a pledge on itself that they would educate 15 million girls by 2017, which would be a major benchmark for the awareness among people of the country.


Watch the 'First Moon Party' an International Ad on a girl's first period by HelloFlo that went viral last month:

[video=youtube;NEcZmT0fiNM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEcZmT0fiNM[/video]
Menstruation still a taboo in 21st century India

 

[renuka]

Dear Prasad ji,

As far as I know menstruating women not allowed in kitchen is mainly a TB practice cos in most Non Brahmin Tamil families..women are only not allowed in the prayer room but cooking goes on as usual..but some Non Brahmin Tamil families too have the isolation practice of not allowing females to cook..I remember my paternal grandparents house had such an isolation room with an attached bathroom but after sometime the younger generation did not want to follow any imposed isolation and that practice died a natural death.

 

[tbs]

hi prasad sir,

sorry for this..just kidding...i read ur heading in different way...worshipping while masturbating...sorry...its men way...dont be serious..

 

[renuka]

hi prasad sir,

sorry for this..just kidding...i read ur heading in different way...worshipping while masturbating...sorry...its men way...dont be serious..

Dear TBS Garu,

Your post is perfectly fine cos its a known fact that the most commonly used word in the culmination of any act of mutual or self gratification is "O God".

 

[prasad1]

hi prasad sir,

sorry for this..just kidding...i read ur heading in different way...worshipping while masturbating...sorry...its men way...dont be serious..

It is a serious matter. Yes I am a man, but so is the rule (customs) makers. If white man was responsible for starting slave trade, it was white man who got the world to stop that practice. If the discrimination against Black man was perpetuated by white man, it took a white man to stop this practice. (Mr. Lincoln and others). So men can not escape the responsibility.

 

[prasad1]

Officials attempt to shake off age-old custom against women
SATHISH G. T.

The district administration, after several attempts, is finally hopeful of ending an age-old custom at Gollarahattis (settlements of the Golla community) in Arsikere taluk.


The community has, for years, been keeping women out of the village limits during menstruation and outside their homes after the birth of a child.


The younger generation is by and large willing to do away with the custom, but elders want to retain it, said officials who held meetings with the people to end the practice.


After the birth of the child, the baby and mother stay in thatched huts outside their homes for months, regardless of the weather. In recent years, many women have even undergone hysterectomy to avoid this trauma.


H.C. Chidananda, Deputy Director of Women and Child Development, on Saturday told The Hindu that he had held three meetings with people of 20 Gollarahattis, where the custom is being followed.


“We have discussed all issues, including this particular custom, with the people. The youth are against it. But a couple of elders have been saying that if they do away with the custom, the deity, Junjappa, will get angry,” the officer said.


Zilla panchayat Chief Executive Officer U.P. Singh, District Health Officer Shymala Devi and other senior officials of the district administration conducted a meeting with village residents on August 4. “We have warned them that cases will be booked against them if they did not put an end to the custom soon. They told us that they would hold a discussion in the village and take a decision soon,” said Mr. Chidananda.


Mahalingappa, former taluk panchayat member, who has been motivating people to end the custom, said: “I am hopeful of people taking a positive step.”

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

It is traditional belief and custom passed on by our elders in whose time conditions were entirely different Now It is up to the the individuals to adopt,modify or discard it totally. It is something like whether we can eat non veg. food or not.Only thing is we can not and should not force our our opinion on others.

 

[Raji Ram]

It is traditional belief and custom passed on by our elders in whose time conditions were entirely different Now It is up to the the individuals to adopt,modify or discard it totally. It is something like whether we can eat non veg. food or not.Only thing is we can not and should not force our our opinion on others.

Since many think that they can act according to their own whims and fancies, some good customs are slowly vanishing! :sad:

 

[Iyyarooraan]

How anybody can avoid praying at any time of his life- whether in Pooja, in bathroom/toilet or on road or in a hospital. Prayer is made by the mind and it never gets polluted except by bad thoughts. Menstruation is a biological process over which the woman has least control. If menstruation blood spills over anywhere other than toilet, it is a discomfort to the lady and the onlooker. It is more a matter of hygiene than a matter of ‘polluting’ pious places or assemblies. A human body is not a sacred place but its mind is. Until we excrete we carry the stools/urine in our system. Forget that a human gets his first disease when he gets a mind. Thus none of us can pray! Is it possible for anybody to forget god at any time at his own will? Not even an atheist. We have set for ourselves manners, behavior, ethics, etiquettes, customs, etc. Most of us are not perfect examples in these. If we agree we mingle or else we get away from the scene till we prefer to. Brahmins have been wrongly alleged to be anti-non-Brahmins. It is same here – man v/s woman.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Since the beginning of time, women have been guided by their monthly cycles.
The only reason mentioned in our scriptures is that she is unclean during that period.
Since the ladies, in those days, did not bathe and there were no bathroomfacilities
in the villages, for the rest of the day during the menstruating period, they are
naturally be termed ‘unclean’ during that time. A woman find irritable during those
periods mainly because of hormonial imbalance. Prayer requires a positive attitude.
The period is judged as impure and inauspicious. It had become a popular practice according
to our Shastras. According to Hinduism it is termed as ritually impure. These days
in some houses, people take bath and cook food too.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

As regards this, you may ask where and how you should acquire knowledge.
The best way to gain knowledge is to read a book written by our ancestors
on this topic explaining basic principles about the need to keep away. Those
days, even the food is not served to the ladies within the house and they
are asked to stay away in the Verandah or in a side room at the back of the
house in the villages. The food is served to them only after the elders eat,
being "Sesham".

 

[sangom]

Worship during menstruation by a woman cannot be stopped except by strong brain-washing, I think. Suppose a girl has written her engineering or medical entrance and on the day the results are annoinced, she is having her monthly period; will she not ordinarily pray to her God, that she gets best results in the exam.? Similar situations - very many - can be cited.

But when we come to social worship like going to temples, bhajans, etc., attending religious functions in which a number of people are invited, etc., it is better for the menstruating women not to take part. Most women realize the wisdom in this rule.

 

[Raji Ram]

Worship during menstruation by a woman cannot be stopped except by strong brain-washing, I think. Suppose a girl has written her engineering or medical entrance and on the day the results are annoinced, she is having her monthly period; will she not ordinarily pray to her God, that she gets best results in the exam.? Similar situations - very many - can be cited.

But when we come to social worship like going to temples, bhajans, etc., attending religious functions in which a number of people are invited, etc., it is better for the menstruating women not to take part. Most women realize the wisdom in this rule.

Very nice post Sangom Sir!

Praying in mind is entirely different from taking part in social worship!

But, the so called broad minded people argue that women can visit temples even with their monthly periods!

 

[renuka]

But, the so called broad minded people argue that women can visit temples even with their monthly periods!

Dear RR ji,

Actually after I read a line about what J.Krishnamurti thought about Gandhi fighting for the rights of Dalits to enter temple...I feel now this whole menses stuff is just no big deal.

Ok it goes like this..someone asked J.Krishnamurti about Ghandi's struggle for the Dalits to be permitted into the temples. All J.Krishnamurti said is "But God is not in the temples"

I think that is the best answer even for this situation about menses and worship in temples.

Its not really broad mindedness...its just realizing that all restrictions are futile.

 

[sarang]

That is why JK has no followers. He was disinherited by his adopted mother and guru. Anybody can say anything. But if the teachings are not in line with bharateeya culture, tradition and scriptures, they will simply evaporate.

Dear RR ji,

Actually after I read a line about what J.Krishnamurti thought about Gandhi fighting for the rights of Dalits to enter temple...I feel now this whole menses stuff is just no big deal.

Ok it goes like this..someone asked J.Krishnamurti about Ghandi's struggle for the Dalits to be permitted into the temples. All J.Krishnamurti said is "But God is not in the temples"

I think that is the best answer even for this situation about menses and worship in temples.

Its not really broad mindedness...its just realizing that all restrictions are futile.

 

[sarang]

Agree Sangomji. Some posts back I raised the question - whether close family members (wife, sister) or relatives of this forum members visit temples during those days - I have not seen any reply in affirmative or negative till now. I might have missed if there was a reply.

Worship cannot be stopped or so ordered - draupadi called govinda and did her saranagati when she was isolated wearing a single garment and was tormented by duschanada.

Worship during menstruation by a woman cannot be stopped except by strong brain-washing, I think. Suppose a girl has written her engineering or medical entrance and on the day the results are annoinced, she is having her monthly period; will she not ordinarily pray to her God, that she gets best results in the exam.? Similar situations - very many - can be cited.

But when we come to social worship like going to temples, bhajans, etc., attending religious functions in which a number of people are invited, etc., it is better for the menstruating women not to take part. Most women realize the wisdom in this rule.

 

[prasad1]

So "sati" practice still can be practiced, because prevailing practice should be allowed.
Dowry should be allowed as prevailing practice, and thee is large number of (boys side family) follow it.
Men should be allowed as mary wife as Dasratha was allowed to have multiple wives.
People should allowed to have slaves as it was practiced. Or African Americans should not be allowed to vote.

Thankfully the world progresses because of some enlightened leaders and unnecessary burden on some minority is removed. That is progress.

There has been struggle for progress, and there has been struggle to maintain the status quo .

should a priest wear a garment to cover the top? This was debated by in a temple here in USA? Can a Temple priest run a business? Can women decorate a Temple idol? There are objection on traditional grounds for all it. But things change.