Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys

[silverfox]

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There is more to it - this 'love' thing!!

Dear GS:
Agreed that love knows no borders. However, the way I see it, the youngsters who profess to be in love, are (most of the time) confusing physical attraction and (if I may say this - lust) with love. Love goes much deeper than that and it takes time to develop this.

I can site so many cases where a B girl marrying a NB, and that, too, a christian, and after a few years, ending up in divorce.
While nobody has the right to stop loving one another, at least we have the moral obligation to advise the parties about the consequences.

I think boy and girl should choose their life partners,and get their approval from parents,elders.In my perspective,love knows no borders,skin tones,beauty..etc.Love is magic,it happens.Where there is love god surely resides.Nobody has anyright to stop loving one another.Thank you.

gopal.

 

[GopalaswamyShridharan]

re

Shree silverfox,

Dear GS:
Agreed that love knows no borders. However, the way I see it, the youngsters who profess to be in love, are (most of the time) confusing physical attraction and (if I may say this - lust) with love. Love goes much deeper than that and it takes time to develop this.

Sir,at youngage initially attraction is physical,but once both boy & girl start socialising,there is sometimes deep love connection.I too like you,was initially thinking,but my friends made me change and realise,as to what true love is.My,koti pranams to my friends,who underwent this love chemistry.

I can site so many cases where a B girl marrying a NB, and that, too, a christian, and after a few years, ending up in divorce.
While nobody has the right to stop loving one another, at least we have the moral obligation to advise the parties about the consequences.

I have honestly not done any statistical analysis on this,and i am basing my perspective purely within family & friends,who have fallen in love and continue to live as married couples,with all the masala thrown into it.In fact,my christian friend went to the extent of asking his beloved to become a christian and she very happily did,even though she is TB.Though they had to go thru lots of trials and tribulations,but then regular TB married couples also undergo such demonic trials and tribulations in life.No one is spared sir.Thank you.

gopal.

 

[uksharma3]

Sri Uksharma3 ji,

Please don't use the words dogs & cow against our girls.

It is only an example. If someone says the washerman washed the dhoti as white as milk, one should not think the dhoti is milk. There is a word in Tamil for such argument 'Vidhandavadam'.
Anyway, I apologize if my example has hurt anyone. It should also be mentioned that cow is a revered animal and dog is a useful pet that also has good quality. We should not treat them as something lowly.
Also, I did not write ONLY about girls, I said the 'young' which includes both boys and girls.

 

[RVR]

It is only an example. If someone says the washerman washed the dhoti as white as milk, one should not think the dhoti is milk. There is a word in Tamil for such argument 'Vidhandavadam'.
Anyway, I apologize if my example has hurt anyone. It should also be mentioned that cow is a revered animal and dog is a useful pet that also has good quality. We should not treat them as something lowly.
Also, I did not write ONLY about girls, I said the 'young' which includes both boys and girls.

Dear Uksharma3 ji,

If your intention is not to hurt anybody then the matter ends there.Let us close the issue.

All the best

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

 

[uksharma3]

Am not sure what you may mean by keeping women "within a framework even if they had been academically educated". And do the same rules apply to a man?

I remind Bharathiar's song "Veettukkulle peNNai poottivaipomenra.." At some time in our long history, women were conducted as unpaid servants. May be the younger generation does not know that. It is a different thing if women place themselves under the guidance and protection of a male (Eg. Shrimathi M.S. Subbhulakshmi). But in many homes the women were treated lowly though it is history now. Still we hear news stories that women politicians are controlled by their husbands.

 

[uksharma3]

After writing my last posting, I listened to Sri Velukudi Krishnan's "Rukmini Kalyanam". In one place he says something that is apt to this thread. He says, as Kali yuga grows further, there will be two castes - males and females. Any boy will marry any girl irrespective of B or NB. I think it is a satisfactory ending to this topic.

 

[RVR]

After writing my last posting, I listened to Sri Velukudi Krishnan's "Rukmini Kalyanam". In one place he says something that is apt to this thread. He says, as Kali yuga grows further, there will be two castes - males and females. Any boy will marry any girl irrespective of B or NB. I think it is a satisfactory ending to this topic.

According to matrimonial sites also, there is terrific shortage of girls. Three boys are chasing one girl. There is no other option for our boys except marrying from other communities.

Sundaramoorthi Nayanar considered as a Saiva Brahmin, married Paravai Nachiar & Sangili Nachiar, both not belonging to brahmin community. Lord Shiva is the main participant for both the marriages.

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

 

[GopalaswamyShridharan]

I feel only a minority of boys and girls are choosing life partners all by themselves.Majority in the community marry within our fold,is my guesstimates.Thank you.

gopal.

 

[sriniranga]

Is NB Girls attract towards Bramin Guyes especially (BC,MBC,OBC), I got the info that no NB
girls marry towards Bramin Guyes(only Hindus i am discussing about )? Kindly let me know what is the ratio happned NB girls VS Bramin Boys Coz one gounder of my friend said, My community girls never go for Intercast marriage. obviously i am seeing lot of Bramin girls only affection towards NB guyes.

 

[RVR]

Is NB Girls attract towards Bramin Guyes especially (BC,MBC,OBC), I got the info that no NB
girls marry towards Bramin Guyes(only Hindus i am discussing about )? Kindly let me know what is the ratio happned NB girls VS Bramin Boys Coz one gounder of my friend said, My community girls never go for Intercast marriage. obviously i am seeing lot of Bramin girls only affection towards NB guyes.

You seems to be correct that more brahmin girls are marrying boys from other community. However no accurate figures will be available. Personally, I am hearing lot of marriages involving a brahmin girl with other community boy. One reason may be, the child get the caste tag of the father's community.

Certain communities other than TB, still have lot of restrictions on intercaste marriages. One of my staff member who migrated to Chennai from Salem area, shifted his daughter to his native place once she attained the marriage age. He feared that if she goes for intercaste marriage in Chennai, there will be lot of problems facing his own community.

Why brahmin girls are attracted to other community boys? Are they want to jump out of brahmin caste tag? Are they attracted to affluent boys of other communities? Are they averse to TB customs and traditions? Is it due to mother in law problem? Are our community boys not at all attractive?

I think we should make an honest introspection.

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

 

[silverfox]

Instead of us, guys, talking about our girls marrying outside the community, how about the girls themselves post their views on this subject? I would like to see a posting from a Brahmin woman's perspective.

 

[leosimha]

this is a very interesting topic.

yadha yadha hi darmasya glanir bhavatih bharatha
abhyuthanam adharmasya tadathmanam srujamyaham

 

[sraiyer]

Sri KRS has hit the nail right on its head. We should encourage dating amongst our children from a very young age of let us say 13-14. Children should be taught family values right from their childhood. On a different plane, I tend to believe that "not a blade of grass moves without HIS benevolence". Persons of opposite sex coming together is a much more serious matter than that. After telling the children what is right from what is not, I think we should let fate take its own course. Children these days are more selfish and they think they know better in deciding what is good or bad for them. We can take a leaf out of their own book and simply look the other way the moment they choose to act fresh. Of course to do that the parent has to be economically indepenent and not take a single penny from one's children. Parents' hand should always be above and never for a moment adopt the receiving posture.

 

[sriniranga]

For this only Girls of our community can explain. I belive mother in law and father inlaw problems are in all the community, this varadakshnai problems also available in other communities. But i have doubt. These NB's basically (OBC,SC , etc) are not liking our guyes, they are not like our growth, they are always scolding and cursing our and our Community. they why they are liking to marry our community girls. and I feel girls should have some common sence before loving nb's guyes. If they go our of our community marriage they(Girls and guyes) should name some bad word(We should frame it here. ).

What is our population of bramins in the india include all (south, north, west , etc) just would like to know the %.

You seems to be correct that more brahmin girls are marrying boys from other community. However no accurate figures will be available. Personally, I am hearing lot of marriages involving a brahmin girl with other community boy. One reason may be, the child get the caste tag of the father's community.

Certain communities other than TB, still have lot of restrictions on intercaste marriages. One of my staff member who migrated to Chennai from Salem area, shifted his daughter to his native place once she attained the marriage age. He feared that if she goes for intercaste marriage in Chennai, there will be lot of problems facing his own community.

Why brahmin girls are attracted to other community boys? Are they want to jump out of brahmin caste tag? Are they attracted to affluent boys of other communities? Are they averse to TB customs and traditions? Is it due to mother in law problem? Are our community boys not at all attractive?

I think we should make an honest introspection.

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

 

[sraiyer]

So strange, your Christian friends asks his TB girl to convert and she agreed instantly. So for your christian friend his religion comes first before his alleged love. And for this foolish TBG she has given priority to Love before her faith. Do you think "love" could not have been communicated with both the parties remaining what they were when they were born? Remember, Christians and Moslems are taught from their childhood that they should convert at least one non-Christian or non-Moslem to embrace their faith adopting whatever means. Stealth, cunning, cheating, everything is allowed -- for the larger purpose of expanding their number while reducing that of others. A solution to all this is arriving fast in the form of planet Nibiru (which is also called the 12th planet or planet X). Come 21 December 2012, and the day after what you will hear or sea all around would be simply Omkara Naadham. No harm we can continue to criticize and deride our faith until then.

 

[happyhindu]

I would like to see a posting from a Brahmin woman's perspective.

sir,

from the perspective of brahmin folk i know:

while all my brahmin friends were raised in a typical middle class set up - not really concerned abt caste, or rather not the kind that discussed it as something important all thru the growing up years (except during the mandal commission times when it became a furore), caste did become an issue when it came to marriage for everyone.

in some cases love just happened, as it does for all teenagers some way or the other (the commonest first crush was Arvind Swamy, then Madhavan, then one of those bollywood Khans, then the guy in the neighbourhood or classmate, then someone else, and then yet someone else, until a relationship from both sides got established). Some cases of love marriages are successful, and so are the arranged marriages. I know of a NB boy who married a brahmin girl after much opposition from his family abt a year back. The boy's family conducted the wedding. They were in a live-in relationship for a few years b4 the wedding. The girl is too much in love with the boy, she puts up with a great deal of nonsense and interference (esp wrt money matters and comparisons). Thankfully her husband is supportive and they are a fairly happy couple. Another relative was forced to give up his TB girlfriend after his dad had a heartattack over self-imagined delusions of 'status' (a lot of ppl suffer from panam veri or so it seems these days).

In some cases the girls sorta manage to stride it out in an unhappy relationship where they feel pretty stifled - a lot it seems depends on the husband and how he balances out his relationship with his wife and parents. This has nothing to do with caste. The "in-laws probs" are pretty much common across all castes, which is more of a typical middle-class prob than a caste prob. All MILs want a dutiful DIL (just like themselves) and all DILs want freedom of choice (they want to be themselves too). Everything seems unique to each situation.

 

[sraiyer]

"Mother-in-Law poroblem" ? What is that? In this age? in these times? the poor old aged couple are existing fearing what the next morning would have in store for them. I think all this boils down to our doing our elementary duty of performing Sandhyavandanam and Gayatri japam. A person who faithfully does this I don't think he will ever face any problem whatsoever in his life. We should all get back to our roots. At least we should start performing our Sandhyavandanam and Gayatri Japam everyday at least -- the prathas sandhya and the saayam sandhya.

 

[sriniranga]

Yes this will happen silver, since the culture, food habits , all the other aspects are different between community to community, But then why our Girls and guyes are not understanding this. I know guyes are also going for inter cast marriage but comparing the ration of boys vs girls , if boys 1: 20 and girls 5: 20. Dont mind my write up, What makes then to accract in the following financial attraction or affection towards guyes /girls or Sexual attraction or we can think it is their fate. This is very painful condition especially for our community .

Dear GS:
Agreed that love knows no borders. However, the way I see it, the youngsters who profess to be in love, are (most of the time) confusing physical attraction and (if I may say this - lust) with love. Love goes much deeper than that and it takes time to develop this.

I can site so many cases where a B girl marrying a NB, and that, too, a christian, and after a few years, ending up in divorce.
While nobody has the right to stop loving one another, at least we have the moral obligation to advise the parties about the consequences.

 

[sriniranga]

This is our moral duty, i need to start, I stopped doing for past 5 years,I am ashamed of it once i saw your post. But one thing i am doing ramanama japam daily atleast for one hour. so I need to start compulsary doing sandavandayana.

"Mother-in-Law poroblem" ? What is that? In this age? in these times? the poor old aged couple are existing fearing what the next morning would have in store for them. I think all this boils down to our doing our elementary duty of performing Sandhyavandanam and Gayatri japam. A person who faithfully does this I don't think he will ever face any problem whatsoever in his life. We should all get back to our roots. At least we should start performing our Sandhyavandanam and Gayatri Japam everyday at least -- the prathas sandhya and the saayam sandhya.

 

[RVR]

A solution to all this is arriving fast in the form of planet Nibiru (which is also called the 12th planet or planet X). Come 21 December 2012, and the day after what you will hear or sea all around would be simply Omkara Naadham. No harm we can continue to criticize and deride our faith until then.

Dear Sri Sriyer ji,

Could you please explain further on the above statement. I am an illiterate as far as astrology is concerned. What is going to happen after 21 Dec 2012

எண்ணாயிரம் ஆண்டு யோகம் இருப்பினும் கண்ணார் அமுதனை கண்டறிவாரில்லை உள் நாடி ஒளி பெற உள்ளே நோக்கினார் கண்ணாடி போல கலந்து நின்றானே

 

[sriniranga]

sir
i have one doubt, Will obc,Bc,MBC,Christians and muslims guyes are not like to marry SC/ST girls ? why tell me. why they are targeting towards Bramin girls, Because We bramin people are soft they wont do any thing what ever we do for that community. Is that the Reason ??? these NB people are stonger enough to beat the bramins because bramins are vegiterians and they are not strength to beat against them.

U can see lot of examples Ramadoss (Previous health minister) vs gopal dean of aims. Now onwards we Bramin girls should have common sense and think weather we can marry that guy or not.

sir,

from the perspective of brahmin folk i know:

while all my brahmin friends were raised in a typical middle class set up - not really concerned abt caste, or rather not the kind that discussed it as something important all thru the growing up years (except during the mandal commission times when it became a furore), caste did become an issue when it came to marriage for everyone.

in some cases love just happened, as it does for all teenagers some way or the other (the commonest first crush was Arvind Swamy, then Madhavan, then one of those bollywood Khans, then the guy in the neighbourhood or classmate, then someone else, and then yet someone else, until a relationship from both sides got established). Some cases of love marriages are successful, and so are the arranged marriages. I know of a NB boy who married a brahmin girl after much opposition from his family abt a year back. The boy's family conducted the wedding. They were in a live-in relationship for a few years b4 the wedding. The girl is too much in love with the boy, she puts up with a great deal of nonsense and interference (esp wrt money matters and comparisons). Thankfully her husband is supportive and they are a fairly happy couple. Another relative was forced to give up his TB girlfriend after his dad had a heartattack over self-imagined delusions of 'status' (a lot of ppl suffer from panam veri or so it seems these days).

In some cases the girls sorta manage to stride it out in an unhappy relationship where they feel pretty stifled - a lot it seems depends on the husband and how he balances out his relationship with his wife and parents. This has nothing to do with caste. The "in-laws probs" are pretty much common across all castes, which is more of a typical middle-class prob than a caste prob. All MILs want a dutiful DIL (just like themselves) and all DILs want freedom of choice (they want to be themselves too). Everything seems unique to each situation.

 

[happyhindu]

sir
i have one doubt, Will obc,Bc,MBC,Christians and muslims guyes are not like to marry SC/ST girls ? why tell me. why they are targeting towards Bramin girls, Because We bramin people are soft they wont do any thing what ever we do for that community. Is that the Reason ??? these NB people are stonger enough to beat the bramins because bramins are vegiterians and they are not strength to beat against them.

U can see lot of examples Ramadoss (Previous health minister) vs gopal dean of aims. Now onwards we Bramin girls should have common sense and think weather we can marry that guy or not.

Sir, i do not know why you feel someone is targetted.

I did some counting and found that the number of brahmin boys married to NB girls, i know of, is higher than the number of NB boys married to brahmin girls (inclusive of brahmins of other states).

As regards caste (which i'd rather call the feeling of community in this case), each community has its own expectations of how their children should be settled. This is esp true of biz families running succesful companies who wish to enhances biz contacts or forage alliances thru the marriage of their children (which i think is rather sick on their part). If the children choose a spouse outside of that ambit, it upsets the elders.

No matter what caste, it does seem always better for a marriage to be contracted b/w equals. If a couple were the same caste too, dunno know how far a relationship wud be trouble-free if it involved a huge disparity wrt to financial background of both parties. It all seems to depend on luck and fate...

As regards other castes, came across a case that happened abt 20 years ago. An ezhava-thever couple were forcibly seperated by the boy's parents, they were made to divorce and the boy was married off to his atthai's daughter soon after the divorce. The couple were friends with someone known to us. I was young then. And conservatism levels were much higher then.

When i bcame a teenager, i only saw girls running after boys with sleeveless t-shirts or ray-ban glasses. And boys running after anything in skirts or salwars with low cuts. The names were all mixed - hindu, muslim, christian. As teenagers dunno how much religion figured on anyone's mind when it came to love (lust or filmi attraction mostly i'd call it for that age).

Boys who took busses, rode cycles, tvs50, scooters, etc were all immediately rejected by the girls. Only a guy riding a bike or a car was considered suitable. This however did not deter the other boys from professing their love thru love letters, writing on walls, etc. A guy having more than one girlfriend was not uncommon either.

Past the teens, in the early 20s, naturally these outwardly things did not seem to really matter for the younsters. Love happened among those who studied, lived or worked in close proximity with each other. In my late 20s, i found out that girls having more than one boyfriend was getting rather common.

Anyways, relationships that started in those teen years resulted in atleast 3 mixed religion marriages i know of later (one is a hindu-muslim, another is muslim-christian and another hindu-christian). They might very well be SCs and STs, have never asked them their castes.

An NB i know married a bengali recently. Checked out of curiosity and found that the boy comes under the SC category. Am told that by interacting with the boy and his folks, it wud be very tuf to say they are SC (all are well educated, decent ppl, the boy is a professor in his 30s, good-looking, from a well-off background). There was no fuss or opposition from both sides. i won't be surprised if more such weddings take place in future.

So you see sir, not only those involving brahmins, there certainly are mixed religion and mixed caste marriages amongst NBs taking place as well (perhaps in greater numbers than those involving brahmins).

PS: sir, it may be possible that you are speaking from the politics point of view, where as i have spoken from what have seen and known so far in life (nothing to do with politics, its perhaps an outcome of industrialization, growing economy, globalization, greater interaction, etc).

 

[Jamadagneya]

This is natural... but there is a fix...

In terms of the Dharma Shastra a Brahman girl marrying a non-Brahman boy, is more sacrilegious (pratiloma), than a Brahman boy marrying a non-Brahman girl (anuloma).

But, such love affairs are but natural, due to the tides of time. With consumerism and westernization, cosmopolitanism follows. With that comes the erosion of Brahman culture and heritage. For many Brahmans today, being a Brahman merely means being a vegetarian and/or a non-drinker. Few have any knowledge of the Vedas or the Upanishads or even know what their Paramacharya (Sankara, Ramanuja, Madhva etc), has taught. This level of ignorance is much worse in the North. I have long stopped counting among Brahmans, such diluted Brahmans. Two good Brahmans count more than two million unlettered uninvested ones. To be a Brahman means to stand for something. Even the worst DK-DMK scum will have to respect genuine men of learning and God.

The solution is simple. We must start a mass movement to return back to the Vedas and pure Brahman culture. Return to our Sanskritic roots. Inculcate a sense of pride in all Brahmans and teach them about their great lineage; ensure they are worthy Vipras. (Vetthi iti VipraH). This is exactly how many peoples in the world (Japan, Jewry, Thailand etc) have reclaimed their identity at various points in history. Why, we could attribute even the Renaissance as being such a revivalist movement for ancient Greek and Latin high culture. Such revivals has been done many times the world over. Sankara himself, engineered such a revival- as did the others of the Bakthi movement. We must get off our armchairs and preach and march.

Now, how many Tamil Brahmans are willing to put their hands up, be counted, and dedicate themselves to this task?

 

[happyhindu]

The solution is simple. We must start a mass movement to return back to the Vedas and pure Brahman culture. Return to our Sanskritic roots. Inculcate a sense of pride in all Brahmans and teach them about their great lineage; ensure they are worthy Vipras. (Vetthi iti VipraH). This is exactly how many peoples in the world (Japan, Jewry, Thailand etc) have reclaimed their identity at various points in history. Why, we could attribute even the Renaissance as being such a revivalist movement for ancient Greek and Latin high culture. Such revivals has been done many times the world over. Sankara himself, engineered such a revival- as did the others of the Bakthi movement. We must get off our armchairs and preach and march.

Not sure i shd be asking this, but am really curious:

1) What is pure brahman culture?

2) Kindly elaborate on the lineage and viprahood (can priests be viprahs?)

3) How do you hope or plan to reclaim identity by attributing a renaissance or revivalist movement (if at all you might mean it that way)?

 

[RVR]

Going back to the pure brahmin culture etc is not possible. On the one side our community is migrating to various place throughout the world. On the other side those who stay back here also (both boys and girls) are forced to work under various environements which we were not used to earlier.

The above circumstances creates lot of opportunities for our youngsters. At the same time we come across some threats, one of which is the topic of this thread.

It is my humble opinion that parents have to play an effective role particularly when it comes to imparting our traditions and values. If both parents are working and the
children are left to the natural forces, the problem will continue. Grand parents can play an important role but their own position in the family has become a big question mark in some of the cases.

It is high time we analyse root causes and eliminate the problems at the point of origin.
I earnestly feel that `Effective Parenting' will solve most of the problems. Last year I had an opportunity to attend a program organised by Suki Sivam & others on `effective parenting' which was really useful.