Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys

[DURGADASAN]

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Dear pannvalan
Even i myself thinking of ask the name's speciality. Because, I heard of Banan and Porunan. Certianly, new name and a nice name... Will shoot the same question next to Akura sir.

Appada... Much relief in my head now.

Pranams

 

[pannvalan]

Thanks, Durgadasan.

In Tamil, 'ba' is not there. Therefore, the word 'paanan' came from the root word of 'pann'.

Even the word 'Yazhppaanam' (Jaffna in English) means 'yazh isaithu paada valla
kalaignar peruvariyaaga vazhum oor/nagaram.

 

[sapthajihva]

Shri kunjuppu, I fail to understand what you infer from the above message to me. I presume that you have defined my character set/behaviour-response stimuli based on my posts here....

I leave the merit of such judgement to you.

A strong affinity to culture and roots does not necessarily wipe out humanity and rational thinking. It is a mistake if one thinks that a culture oriented person is akin to an extremist in his thoughts and reactions. For that matter we are all extremists in our viewpoints.

Regarding marriage, I think it is a matter of balancing the variables on all sides (parents/children/the other family). Further, after marriage, the balancing act still continues, till each is acclimatised to their roles and earn the confidence and trust of family members concerned (including each other).

Regards,

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Ravi,

I am positive that your parents will accept an orphan girl ,provided she comes as near to them in their usual customs and daily routines and follows vegitarian or non-vegetarian practice like them.If she comes somewhere near your sister's in appearance an likes, that will be enough for them.

Sneham( love and affection) will flow down smoothly from a higher level to lower level.

Sneham-in sanskrit has meaning as oil.Naturally it flows smoothly from higher level to lower level.
For an argument only-- parents give more love to children than they get from them - because of above analogy)

Greetings and Best wishes.

 

[civilsoft_bala]

Dear Mr. Pannvalan, thank you for such a elaborate point-wise advice to both parents and children. (Infact some of those points were what I was also trying to stress upon).
Dear Mr. Kunjuppu, I had a fully arranged marriage only (But many attributes of the girl, like her education, economic background of their family etc were purely as per my wishes - thanks to my MoM). Regarding B girls married to NB boys, if I come to know i will surely introduce them to this site & thread.
Having already looked on to the logically correct relation between parents and children (as elaborately writtern by Mr.Pannvalan), now we have to consider whether this alone will stop inter-caste marriages between B and NB or love affairs cropping between B and NB - ??? I feel there are certain other factors also to be thought of,
Love Has become the order of the day today - and in college if you dont have a girl / boy friend it is considered bad. - Iam sure iam not exaggerating anything.
Love has become socially well acceptable and shown as a heroism in all cinemas/mass media. individual's Parents may or may not accept love but todays society is well accepting love.
Most of colleges / BPOs / Software companies (even from schools) are co-ed/(mixture of girls and boys) and girls and boys are left alone together. Today's society does not pose any barrier for them to speak any amount of time freely.
Today's girls and boys are spending most of their time in their workplaces/colleges where no one is there to watch them or control them.
With this situation how can you ensure that they wont love (can you put a sponge inside a fire and tell sponge should be matured enough not to get burnt in the fire - it is stupidity infact).
- Please mind one thing - Love at that age will not see caste or creed or any such thing - it will crop between a male and a female purely based on certain other attractions like their character, look etc.
Having told this, i feel our objective of this thread is to see how to prevent erosion of the brahmin community by virtue of brahmin girls going out and marrying NB boys (hence going away from our communiy) ..
But before that, how long can you prevent like this ??? Can you ensure that your granddaughter will also not enter a love affair or your daughter will not allow her daughter to go into love affair ?? Surely no. So even if you struggle you can retain the community for a short-while only. After that the society will grow at its own course only and you cant do anything on that.
Child marriages / SATI etc are today extiguished and only read in books. Dowry is also slowly getting extinguished and Iam sure when my kids come up they will only read it in books. Similarly i can also imagine a day when the entire caste system will be a difficult subject to Mugup for history students (I mean such differences are slowly vanishing).
(Actually as per definition who is a brahmin - I have studied in history some thing like one who is truthful, marries single lady etc etc - Sorry I dont remember much). But as per those old definitions today all are brahmins only (including NBs). Todays NBs are very cultured and many of them (especially girls) are also becoming vegetarians. (Infact only brahmins are getting converted as Nonveg eaters - shame on us - bye the bye Iam a pure veg eater only !!!).
If more girls are going out of our community, i feel we have to attract more NB girls into our community so that every thing is balanced !!! (Iam just joking - but its also true)
So I will conclude telling, parents can be good enough with their children and children also can be good (as per points by Mr. Pannvalan) - Still Society today is becoming more liberalised, and it is not in our hands to control it fully. After-all what is marriage - a man and a woman have to live happily sharing their lives for few years which the Almighty has given us. Why so many controls and hassles. Only thing i feel parents have to care is that children out of immaturity should not fall in love with false partners and suffer in thier life. I feel parents have to ensure that much only.

 

[kunjuppu]

Shri kunjuppu, I fail to understand what you infer from the above message to me. I presume that you have defined my character set/behaviour-response stimuli based on my posts here....
,

saptha,

i sincerely accept my mistake re the highlighted comment.

anticipating how certain folks would react in circumstances, is wrong. i am remiss of such. sincere apologies.

:sorry:

 

[kunjuppu]

good stuff balaji.

spoken with wisdom. hope to see you regularly here

thank you.

 

[pannvalan]

We are not against love. But we differ only in defining what true love is.

Apart from one's outward looks, habits, speech and the only highlighted positive side of character initially, both the genders have become so calculative especially when it comes to marriage.

They don't mind loving somebody and marrying somebody else. Absolutely no remorse at all.

It is not because of 'kaadhal tholvi'. But, adhu unmaiyaana kaadhalukku allavaa, tholvi?

 

[sapthajihva]

Shri kunjuppu, your apology is accepted.....

I agree on most of the lines on which shri pannvalan has put his thought process. Marriage should not be a mere union of bodies fuelled by outward appearances. Being human beings, we put on so many masks that a mere friendly association cannot form the basis of evaluating a marriage proposal. Of course there are genuine cases, but am stating this on what I have personally experienced.

Let me give my personal example as a support for the above opinion. I can adapt with ease to both traditional and the unorthodox styles, whether it be dressing, etiquette or any other. But the undercurrent in all my motives would be not to let go of my culture. I have a deciding line in my thoughts which flags me off when something crosses the base.

But that does not mean that I go on carping about rituals and customs wherever and whever I go or that thought alone occupies all my space.

If a girl gets attracted to me thinking that I am all the modern, outgoing and extrovert guy, it might be a wrong conclusion for she does not know my value system, which stems from my family. And if I think that the girl is attracted to my base values, then I am wrong in my judgement. Only when the frequency match is strong and it does match with, or does not interfere with, both our value systems, can the relationship bear fruit.

Unfortunately, the factor of physical attraction blinds such thinking (we think it may not) and in such cases, the concerned rebel against all those who oppose their decision. This is a fine line which is difficult to discuss and it should be on a case to case basis. But it is hard to discuss whithout generalizing and that is where the sort of points shri pannvalan mentioned comes in.... as you mentioned, it is nothing but common sense.

The value system that I mentioned is mostly derived from the family and culture - it is here that most of the compatibility features related to a value system are met. Then comes the other peripheral items like education, looks, etc. This is why matches should be met within the culture and not anywhere else.

I am just touching on the psychological aspect and nothing else.

Nowadays, both boys and girls have a romanticised version of their future prospect, that it immediately dismisses the culture aspect as boring, conservative and uninteresting. Their mindset is already soaring above the clouds that often the ground realities are ignored.

As shri pannvalan mentions, they have to understand what 'kaadhal' really is...

 

[RVR]

For the benefit of Bachelor boys here, along with some of my friends, I shall try to organise a swayamvaram of tamil brahmin boys and girls in Chennai. I shall keep you informed about the developments.

Please bear with me till then.

All the best

 

[C RAVI]

Sri Venkataramani ji,

Great......Really would be a great initiative...

Hats off to you to come to such a conclusion....The contribution to this thread by all the members have really worked out to find some one doing constructively.

Hope the plan would turn out to be a successful project....

I would request you to consider the issues discussed in all other threads pertaining to marriage, form a collective note and deliver them as a speech to the audience of the event that would include the parents of the boys and girls.

Especially, please go through the thread - same gothram marriage, which can be discussed and made to understand to the community people, participating the event. This ways the success rate of the event would be much better...

Such initiatives would be highly appreciated.

Hope to receive an invitation for the same at the earliest.


Cheers...

RAVI

 

[pannvalan]

Please brighten the future of many young boys, from our community.

I wish you all the best and 100% success.

 

[RVR]

Sarvasri Pannvalanji and C Raviji,

The best way to tackle the problem is to face it squarely. Please suggest me as to how to go about so that we shall all work towards a common objective.

All the best

 

[civilsoft_bala]

Dear Mr. Pannvalanji, Quoting the lines which you have writtern as below

"We are not against love. But we differ only in defining what true love is."

If you really mean these lines, then will you accept a Love marriage (in case of any of your own close relations - say your own kids), if it is between B and NB - consider that you are finding it as a true and sincere love ???? (True love need not always be between a B and B, it can be between a B and NB also)

(I have taken the liberty to ask like this - if it has hurted you Iam very sorry - I will take back my question).

 

[pannvalan]

The question you have posed has been in the air for the past 60 years or so.

First, affection towards other communities need not be demonstrated only by having marital ties with them.

Second, the topic here we discuss is large scale incidence of inter-caste marriages, not stray, isolated cases.

Third, if I feel the love in question is true, will culminate in marriage (not for flirting alone) and is believed to be a successful one, I will either support it or remain neutral, depending on the facts of the case.

But, if I am not satisfied with the credentials of the case, I will also oppose it.

 

[pannvalan]

Dear Venkataramani, here is my reply.

PROPOSED SWAYAMVARAM – SOME POINTS SUGGESTED

​

1.Give wide publicity, but don’t spend huge amount for the event unnecessarily.
2.Even though I know you fairly, I couldn’t avoid telling this. Please don’t collect any fees/service charges, except an amount to cover the organizing expenses.
3.Inform the aspirants and their parents briefly about the noble objective behind your efforts, without going on the side of boasting.
4.Dos and Donts and other terms and conditions are also to be given in writing.
5.Let all your communication be in vernacular language as well as English, so that all kinds of people come and attend the event.
6.You invite some well known personality to preside over the function (Send him off soon).
7.Even in other towns and cities, the conduct of the event may be publicized through handbills and small cards of business cards size, while remembering Point No. 1.
8.The help and support of Brahmin associations in different places may be enlisted.
9.Brief Bio-data of all aspirants must be obtained and kept on record
10.Allot different time slots for people, by sub-grouping them basing on their expectations, which shall be ascertained broadly beforehand.
11.A common briefing session (lasting for 15 minutes) for all at the beginning is desirable.
12.Everybody must be made to realize that what you do is only creating a platform for the participants and there your responsibility ends. Let the participants discuss other issues amongst themselves. The ultimate choice is that of the respective individuals only.
13.You or your representative will act as a connecting point/link, wherever necessary.
14.It is advisable only two persons from each family are invited – The boy or the girl and one of their parents or one of the elders from either side.
15.Though photographing the event is alright, I don’t advise video-recording the proceedings, as the participants may feel their privacy is threatened.
16.Never allow anyone to shout or raise his/her voice, whatever be the provocation. Such persons must be politely requested to talk normal. If anybody doesn’t listen and still continues to shout or talk in high pitch, gently guide them out of the venue, with the help of a team of volunteers.
17.Maintain proper records for each case and further developments in their case. All follow up actions also may be recorded and it will also help face legal issues, if any, in future.
18. Allot code number to each case and initially, only this must be divulged to the other side, seeking details of one particular case.

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Also can b made known that Sagotra marriage also is a choice. Choice can also be for brahmins speaking other languages.

greetings

 

[tbs]

Sarvasri Pannvalanji and C Raviji,

The best way to tackle the problem is to face it squarely. Please suggest me as to how to go about so that we shall all work towards a common objective.

All the best

hi RV sir,
please try to get to touch swaminatha sharma for astrological
sugessions/advice for swayamvaram....it hepls a lot...he is
most reliable in swayamvaram and very helpful.

regards
tbs

 

[RVR]

hi RV sir,
please try to get to touch swaminatha sharma for astrological
sugessions/advice for swayamvaram....it hepls a lot...he is
most reliable in swayamvaram and very helpful.

regards
tbs

Sri TBS ji,

Definitely it is going to be joint effort integrating with Sri Swaminatha Sharma for Chennai show.

Thanks and all the best

 

[RVR]

Also can b made known that Sagotra marriage also is a choice. Choice can also be for brahmins speaking other languages.

greetings

Dear Sri Suryakasyapa ji,

Let us not complicate matters involving Saga Gothra and other language speaking people. Let us be silent on this matter and leave it to the participants to decide.

If you are placed in Chennai, I request you to join the event in whatever possible way you choose.

Thanks and all the best

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri RV ji,

I agree with you,and wish your efforts all the best to become a fruitful and beneficial venture.

We need more suh from you and similar others

Greetings

 

[RVR]

Dear Venkataramani, here is my reply.

PROPOSED SWAYAMVARAM – SOME POINTS SUGGESTED

​

1.Give wide publicity, but don’t spend huge amount for the event unnecessarily.
2.Even though I know you fairly, I couldn’t avoid telling this. Please don’t collect any fees/service charges, except an amount to cover the organizing expenses.
3.Inform the aspirants and their parents briefly about the noble objective behind your efforts, without going on the side of boasting.
4.Dos and Donts and other terms and conditions are also to be given in writing.
5.Let all your communication be in vernacular language as well as English, so that all kinds of people come and attend the event.
6.You invite some well known personality to preside over the function (Send him off soon).
7.Even in other towns and cities, the conduct of the event may be publicized through handbills and small cards of business cards size, while remembering Point No. 1.
8.The help and support of Brahmin associations in different places may be enlisted.
9.Brief Bio-data of all aspirants must be obtained and kept on record
10.Allot different time slots for people, by sub-grouping them basing on their expectations, which shall be ascertained broadly beforehand.
11.A common briefing session (lasting for 15 minutes) for all at the beginning is desirable.
12.Everybody must be made to realize that what you do is only creating a platform for the participants and there your responsibility ends. Let the participants discuss other issues amongst themselves. The ultimate choice is that of the respective individuals only.
13.You or your representative will act as a connecting point/link, wherever necessary.
14.It is advisable only two persons from each family are invited – The boy or the girl and one of their parents or one of the elders from either side.
15.Though photographing the event is alright, I don’t advise video-recording the proceedings, as the participants may feel their privacy is threatened.
16.Never allow anyone to shout or raise his/her voice, whatever be the provocation. Such persons must be politely requested to talk normal. If anybody doesn’t listen and still continues to shout or talk in high pitch, gently guide them out of the venue, with the help of a team of volunteers.
17.Maintain proper records for each case and further developments in their case. All follow up actions also may be recorded and it will also help face legal issues, if any, in future.
18. Allot code number to each case and initially, only this must be divulged to the other side, seeking details of one particular case.

Sri Pannvalan ji,

First of all I would like to see that the event is a joint effort of all of us. I request you to join the effort in whatever possible way.

Let us not collect any money from the participants.

We will engage a place for few hours - possibly Ayodhya Mandapam(West Mambalam), Sringeri Pravachana Mandapam (Mandaveli) or some other place which is available to us practically free.

We will not engage Video/photo etc as it will only add to the cost of the event. We don't require any publicity.

We shall play the role of facilitators only and let the participants decide their alliance partners.

We can use email, sms, phone/mobile, leading Vadhyars, leading astrologers for giving wide publicity.

Probably we shall meet on a Sunday evening and decide the future course of action. But I request your presence in the meeting.

Thanks and all the best

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Namassadhasae.

Sarvashree Pannvalan ji & RV ji,

If a swayamvaram of the kind proposed is planned (ofcourse after a preliminary meeting, as suggested by Shri RVji), there are tabloids for givng publicity of the event, absolutely free of cost, e.g. if the venue is Sringeri Mutt in Mandaveli, the news item will be published by Mylapore Times, free of cost. Just sending the details by email and a little follow-up, if required, will do. If it is Ayodhya Mandapam, Mambalam Times can be made use of. In both cases, if required and decided so, even I am ready to take up this assignment. We will definitely get support from local tabloid (the venue comes under the jurisdiction of which tabloid is their look out). Rest depends on the outcome of the proposed meeting pls. I can also try to get support from popular media also , free of cost.
Being a person based at Chennai, I am also available to lend my support pls.

'அவரவர் இச்சையில் எவை எவை உற்றவை அவை தருவித்தருள் பெருமாளே! - திருவக்கரை திருப்புகழ் '

 

[ganesh0010]

my first post

if Brahmin boys /girls marry outside the caste are we as parents not responsible

How many of us do sandhyanvandanam,/ gayatri regularly

How many of us visit temples and take part in temple activities regularly

How many of us tried to learn sanskrit and vedas

How many parents take time to explain the richness of our culture to children??

How many parents conduct poonal kalyanam at the proper age of eight years and insist from that age to do gayatri following the example of the father

How many parents educate their girl children about the religious practices to be followed during festivals/ teach them all the stotras/ take them to discourses on puranas etc

We parents are busy with our work during the day / TV or parties during evenings and wake up one morning to realize that children have not followed the family tradition

Let us all unite together to teach our young kids about our religion and culture

The tragedy of our culture is that the children have nobody to turn to in case of doubts they get about our religion and samskaras .,, see a christian family; they regularly go to church, every week./ all the 52 weeks , without fail, they have a FATHER at the church who will answer their doubts;; they know their religious book BIBLE

IN contrast how many of our brahmin children have been shown the books Valmiki Ramayana or Mahabharata or Bhagavad Gita by their parents

Do ponder and pen your thoughts

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Quote from Ganesh 0010 "The tragedy of our culture is that the children have nobody to turn to in case of doubts they get about our religion and samskaras .,, see a christian family; they regularly go to church, every week./ all the 52 weeks , without fail, they have a FATHER at the church who will answer their doubts;; they know their religious book BIBLE

IN contrast how many of our brahmin children have been shown the books Valmiki Ramayana or Mahabharata or Bhagavad Gita by their parents"

I disagree here. Where there is will there is way. Then about other religions, it is just akkarai pachai.Moreover,Hinduism is like big ocean.You cannot master even in one full life.Even if one is able to touch a"vakku"(corner that is positive.

Learning and understanding is continuous. Student has to yearn to learn.

There may be a number of scholars,pandits pious elders in your own locality,even next door.First step is simply follow elders,parents in their activities.Observe all the rituals going on in the family and friends and relatives places.

Try to learn at least one thing a day from yhat. Further development by reading and formal training is easy.

Best wishes and greetings.