Dear Senthil, Greetings,
One of the things I said that you took umbrage to is the following:
This particular blog is full of opinions and half truths. There were some out and out falsehoods as well.
The two posts you made under this thread that I am responding to, are perfect illustrations of this in your own words.
... In short, elite brahmins are those who are birth brahmin but do not follow any of the brahmin life style..
Traditional brahmins are those, who do daily sandhya vandhana, who follow brahminic life code, and many other things..
If we apply this standard you would be hard pressed to find 1000 Brahmins in all of Tamil Nadu. You seem to have a romantic notion of present day Brahmins.
There are brahmins who are intermediate b/w these two, at varying levels..
Ah! You have a sliding scale for Brahminness!! Many months ago another member here suggested something similar, was it KRS? Anyway, this is just your opinion, and it is like having a sliding scale for pregnancy, a woman can't be somewhat pregnant.
Sir.. do you know, night soil cleaners, scavengers, sewage cleaners, are all NOT part of our caste system.. They are part of the modern urban system.. So, they are the issues to be handled by the urban people and NOT by jaati system..
Urbanization existed long before the modernization brought in by the British. The earliest urbanization started in Mohenjadaro/Harappa. In more recent times, Madurai, Thanjavur and Kumbakonam, among other sites, have been urban centers for at least 1000 years. Cleaning up after the upper castes waste was the job of Thottis. It was the jati system that assigned this task to one group of people from which they did not have any escape -- no escape even for their descendant.
But, even in villages, it was the Dalits duty to clean up after anything noxious like dead cattle, etc. So, even in places where there was no sewge system the dirty jobs fell on the heads of Dalits.
Sir.. when britishers dominated india, they took over all temples managed by brahmins.. the brahmins became slave workers to the temples.. The endowment act of 1892 is still in force, and the government is in full control of all temples..
This is completely untrue.
First, not all temples are under government control. Even the ones that are under government control, that too during the dreaded Dravidan rule, the EO cannot interfere with the pooja routines. The government has a role only in the administrative aspects.
The Archaka position passes down through a system of ancestral rights. The rotation of rights to perform pooja is governed by strict rules within the families that share these rights. (This is what is being challenged by the Dravidian gvernments with mixed success, the final chapter is yet to be written!)
Some temples rake in a lot of income like Sri Rangam, Thirvellikeni, and Madurai Meenakshi. There are temples with meager income, like the one in Thirupputkizhi, the temple where Bhagavat Ramanuja was supposed to have studied under Yadavaprakasha. But, rich or poor, Brahmin Archakas cannot be interfered with in matters of religious rituals.
So, to say that the Brahmin archakas are like slave workers, that too ever since 1892, shows how unconnected to reality your views are.
So to your question, it should be government which is NOT allowing brahmins to live their life style.
Senthil, have you visited Brahminical Matams and Veda Patashalas? I have, and I have not seen even one government official preventing Brahmins to live the way of a Brahmin, with all its good and ugly side. To top it all, all the Veda Patashalas I know receive 80G tax exemption, and yet get to impose 100% reservation for Brahmins only. If a Brahmin wants to live as a Brahmin, there are lots of opportunities to do so. It is the Brahmins who want nothing of that sort. Time and again I have seen Brahmin archakas choosing English medium schools for their kids. No Brahminical Acharya can make them send their kids to Veda Patashala. Only those who have no other go send their kids to Veda Patashala. There is no government interference whatsoever as you claim.
There were brahmin agraharams exclusively for brahmins so that they can manage their agraharam as per their tradition and customs.. Today, in the name of individual rights, how many such agraharams were being encroached by other caste people.. chicken stall, industries, and other encroachments which make a brahminic life style impossible..
Senthil, I don't know on what basis you say this. The exodus of Brahmins from village agraharams was completely voluntary. When opportunities openned up in the cities, it was the Brahmins who were in a position to take advantage and they did in droves. They all sold their property voluntarily. My own family did.
Let me narrate an incident, not as a proof of anything, but to illustrate my point. One of the prominent SV institutions owned a piece of property in the Sannithi theru of Therazhundur. They wanted to sell it and was ready to sell it to a Muslim party. Some of their own sishyas were so appalled that they came up with an alternative arrangement. This is reality my friend, nobody prevented Brahmins from leaving the villages or lead a life of penury.
the saddest part is instead of questioning these, the brahmins have become self-abashing permanently lost in guilt feeling..
You are making gross assumption. I don't feel any guilt at all, and if you go through the posts of many people here you will see that they all are quite opposed to passed down guilt. It is not guilt as you so presumptuously presume, it is reason and rationality. This canard has a western version, where rational Jews are pejoratively characterized as self-hating Jews. This gives the critics some satisfaction I suppose. But, let me assure you, it is reason that makes people like me reject Brahminism, not guilt.
In US, there are community settlements, where the particular community can set rules and regulations for the houses in their area.. i remember reading a news, that hindus in a US city is unable to build a temple, because the community administration is NOT giving no-objecting certification..
The rules must be reasonable and must apply to all equally. For example, many local jurisdictions restrict public buildings in residential areas. So you cannot build temples in such areas. This applies to Christian churches, Jewish Synagogues, Mosques, et al. Restrictive covenants that keeps away a particular group of people on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, and a host of other classification is illegal in the U.S. Of course, there are racists in the U.S. who try to put road blocks for temple construction, but they almost always loose. FYI, there is not a single metropolitan area in the U.S. without a Hindu temple. In major cities there are several.
In india, this is not possible.. When brahmins attempt to create exclusive brahmin settlements, what will be the reaction from government?
You are once again revealing your unfamiliarity with reality. The government does not care, and that I think is regrettable. Aspiring for a caste-exclusive settlement is, IMO, retrograde. This will probably make me out to be a British loving pseudo-secular, elitist, ideologue, in your mind. If so, I can rest in peace that my rationality is intact.
When christian community can have exclusive christian settlements, when they can have exclusive school for christian students, why NOT a brahmin, or a vellala community have exclusive school or residential area for them? We all understand that brahmin life style is different, vellalar life style is different and its logical to have exclusive schools for them..
So, what you want is complete segregation on caste lines, is it? Senthil, I am sure you are a nice and decent fellow. But ideas like this have been discredited a long time ago. We have a rich Tamil tradition that teaches openness and universal brotherhood (sisterhood as well -- in this the Tamils are just as bad as the Brahminits).
Earlier this afternoon I was watching a documentary on Vietnam. The Americans bombed Vietnam to smithereens. They used agent orange and radio-active warheads. Yet, the Vietnamese seem to have made peace with the past, they don't hold any grudge against the Americans. Our British past is older to the American misadventure in Vietnam. I think the time to stop blaming British for everything came a long time ago. Let us look to the future when the term "Dalit" will only have historical significance.
Thank you and best wishes....
.dunno,if gold kuja was also presented,anyways it was all good fun....younger days with hordes of relatives,summer hols with grand-parents,aunts,uncles,cousins...sigh!
