• This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
  • Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Brahmin Marriages - Assertiveness/Aggressiveness of Girls - History and introspection

  • Thread starter Thread starter sankara_sharmah
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Hi jaykay,
\
It has been a while, since my pre teen years, that I have heard of successful saabams. Are you sure that it was the parents’ saabam that prevented the son from having a child? Did the parents did not suffer at the absence of a grand child? How sure are we, that had the son acceded to the parents’ desire to live with them, a grand child would have been fructified with 10 months?

If the son could not get a natural born child, he could have adopted one. Couldn’t he?

To me it looks like these folks did not want children (yes there are folks like that, though personally I think they are missing out a great experience of a lifetime ie parenthood). So all in, they probably cheerfully admitted themselves to the old age home themselves.

Now you are talking about 40 or 50 year intervals. I thought old age homes came to india only recently ie past 10 20 years? Please explain.

Thank you.

I am one for saabams to come true. But in my experience, sadly, none of my saabams have been realized. Apart from the puranic age, I have not heard of saabams really happening.

.. but it is a good story anyway :)

You said it right. Parents never curse their own children, forget Shabam. Then again if human's could put shabham, and came true then Krishna was wrong when He said

Chapter 18. Conclusion--The Perfection of Renunciation
TEXT 66


sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja
aham tvam sarva-papebhyo
moksayisyami ma sucah

Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear.
 
Dear Tks,

The girl's answers to yr questions in bold letters are:

One of the list you may want to generate and even share are not just what you want but what you dont want explicitly. That way a prior checks could be made before a date. For example will it be acceptable if:
- Boy had a girl friend before but not in relationship now- No problem if he puts it behind and is ready to move on.
- Boy had a form of curable cancer - he is fully cured and from the best knowledge it is not hereditary but cause unknown.-No. I don't take chances in such matters.

- Boy may have had a spending problem resulting in personal bankruptcy (I am saying from example Indian fellows in USA) but since then has recovered and is now supposedly careful-No. I would prefer someone who is careful with his impulses.

- Boy has few too many traffic tickets showing carelessness but getting better-No. It is a window that opens into his nature. It is risky.

- Boy used to belong to Hare Krishna movement - left home, then came back and now has a good job- No. I would like to keep away from people who go to extremes.

- Boy has a problem watching porn secretly but once married he will be fine is the expectations -No. It is a depraved mind. I am scared of it.

- Boy has a stressful job - 9 am to 9 pm-No problem. I can manage. He can get around and can manage his time better. I will help him in that.

- Boy is a intervention cardiologist - his life revolves around patient calls.. So at night he may have to leave ..expects you to run the household and manages the children-No problem.

- Boy wants to have 4 or 5 children since he loves children-If health permits I wont mind.

- Boy is sincere, good looking, has a great job, well educated - but when he opens his mouth talks like an Asadu - voice tone, mannerism.-Such 'asadus' are great people to live with. I do not mind.

- Boy is too introverted but otherwise fine from all that is known through background checks-Ok for me. I can get along and even change him a little bit.

- Boy says he believes in UFO in the first date but otherwise fine-No

You get the idea .. Will you consider cases like this seriously or reject them. Which ones will you reject and why-​I have given you my answers. If you ask me to further justify elaborately I may not agree to do that.
 
Dear SS,
I am with you. I think it is better for you to maintain your independence, and have outstanding invites from your dil.
No matter what is said, going to live with dil, in many ways, even if she goes out of her way to accommodate you, it is her house. It has been established such.
I am not sure, how much into orthodoxy she is. If she follows the traditional 3 day off-kitchen pooja room and such things, which though have no rationality, is still a Brahmin practice, increasingly shunned in most tambram households of today.
Don’t know whether she tolerates coffee. Or would get upset if you have a glass of beer or a cigarette. Deviance from one’s firm habits and faiths, and acceptance of the same, to be practiced in one’s household, demands a level of tolerance and accommodation. This, from the dil, who would not let the other dil go to a disco! This one sort of looks like a virago to me.
You may be better off, if you ever need to, go live with the 2nd dil, and offer to take money from the first. You would probably rile them up both, but atleast you would have peace

Kunjuppu,
We are grateful to my elder DIL for taking charge of my son. For putting up with his eccentricities.

You might have seen or heard of some Brahmin men of old. Very intelligent, Sanskrit scholors, Extremely religious, but enjoyed all good things of life.

My son is such a Brahmin reborn. He was chosen to play the role of Infant Jesus in a Christmas play in the nursery school. He was about 3 years then. He told his teacher "I will not play the role of Jesus. I am a Hindu." We were shocked when we heard this.

My son would have fitted perfectly in a Brahmin community about 200 years back. Just to quote one instance, when he drops a pen from his table, he will shout for his wife. She has to come immediately dropping whatever she is doing, from the kitchen or wherever she is, pick up the pen and give it to him.

My son is a very good person. All the relatives love him and prise him. His teachers were fustrated with him , but never stopped encouraging him.

Such people make extremely difficult sons/students/husbands. Especially for modern girls.

Good boys do not always make good husbands.

My DIL loves him and is able to tolerate him. By MAA's grace we have found her.

When we visit them, we are treated like royalty. I never get/got such a treatment in my own house. She would not permit my wife to do any work. Now she has learnt to cook all kinds of fancy foods. Her Kitchen has a big library of cookery books.

But then there are drawbacks. Like you can not sleep during the evening or even lie down however tired you are. This is against Sasthras. That is what she claims. Unfortunately she is correct.
 
Dear Kunjuppu,

Dear SS,

I am with you. I think it is better for you to maintain your independence, and have outstanding invites from your dil.
No matter what is said, going to live with dil, in many ways, even if she goes out of her way to accommodate you, it is her house. It has been established such.
I am not sure, how much into orthodoxy she is. If she follows the traditional 3 day off-kitchen pooja room and such things, which though have no rationality, is still a Brahmin practice, increasingly shunned in most tambram households of today.
Don’t know whether she tolerates coffee. Or would get upset if you have a glass of beer or a cigarette. Deviance from one’s firm habits and faiths, and acceptance of the same, to be practiced in one’s household, demands a level of tolerance and accommodation. This, from the dil, who would not let the other dil go to a disco! This one sort of looks like a virago to me.
You may be better off, if you ever need to, go live with the 2nd dil, and offer to take money from the first. You would probably rile them up both, but atleast you would have peace

How are values built and become a value system of an individual in course of time? Right from childhood values are acquired and the system is built brick by brick throughout one's life. Many values picked up earlier in life are taken out periodically and are validated or discarded and replaced with new values. This is a continuous process going on. This is what is said about value system by behavioral scientists. So a value system of an individual is a thing of beauty painstakingly sculpted over a long period. To destroy it to build a new one is a mindless act. But that is one of the tragedies of human life. There are many other tragedies like what somebody said about human life that it remains an unfinished painting for ever. Particularly for women such tragedies occur frequently. In no other living species sacrifices are taken for granted from females. Just some thought.

Cheers.
 
Dear Kunjuppu,



How are values built and become a value system of an individual in course of time? Right from childhood values are acquired and the system is built brick by brick throughout one's life. Many values picked up earlier in life are taken out periodically and are validated or discarded and replaced with new values. This is a continuous process going on. This is what is said about value system by behavioral scientists. So a value system of an individual is a thing of beauty painstakingly sculpted over a long period. To destroy it to build a new one is a mindless act. But that is one of the tragedies of human life. There are many other tragedies like what somebody said about human life that it remains an unfinished painting for ever. Particularly for women such tragedies occur frequently. In no other living species sacrifices are taken for granted from females. Just some thought.

Cheers.

very well put raju.

we probably dont ever realize in the past years, when the girls on marriage, have to give up their own homes, and go to live with in laws, 'trained' per the new household habits, and then passed on to the husbands place of domicile.

my own aunt, got married to an orthodox palghat family. in 1957. soon after marriage, for 6 months, she spent in palghat, with the in laws. only after this regimentation, she was permitted to join her husband in chennai. again it was koottu kudhithanam there with a multitude of brother, of whom only 2 others were married.

it was like a chathram, with people constantly going in and out, the stoves always on, because someone needed a coffee, lunch or tiffin. for example the dinner started at 730 to accommodate the school going children, and ended at 1030, when the last of the brothers doddered in, after closing the retail shops they owned.

my aunt, who was brought up in rural north malabar, put up with this.

but the next brother, married a girl from mylapore madras. she immediately put her foot down, and did thani kudhithanam between herself and hubby. taking the cue, one by one the other married brothers, slowly moved out. barring the eldest one, who was now saddled with 3 young unmarried brothers, a couple of school going sisters. and his poor wife, now the sole cook to feed 9 mouths, including her own two kids.

nobody asked whether these women had any ideas or ambitions of their own.

so, indeed, we have come a looooong way. giving our women not just word respect, but in action. so when i see the type of list that your friend produced to vet the husband, i am very happy that she has taken an interest in her life, and knows exactly what she wants.

kudos to these who are the true daughters of bharathiar. may their tribes increase.

for our men, if they are alone, i think, they can adjust and handle this very well. i had an orphan male cousin, who married in early 1970s. his wife was also working. so happy was he to get a working earning wife, that by the time she came home, he would have already started the evening dinner, by boiling the paruppu, cut the vegetables, and the decoction ready for a hot coffee. on the way from his own office, he would also daily purchase fresh snack and sure enough that is one of the happiest marriages i have ever seen.

a little gentleness and empathy on the part of men, goes a long way, in getting rewards multiple times from their spouses.
 
Dearjaykay,



(1)The first sentence-you are very judgmental. I leave it at that.
(2)The second sentence-the girl has already replied.
(3)Saying "I want to marry a good boy" is like saying I want to marrya boy. A girl would want, by default(if I may use a term from IT vocabulary) tomarry only a boy unless of course she is a lesbian. Similarly a girl with herqualifications would want to marry only a good boy and not a bad boy. It goeswithout saying.



I am sorry I did not mention this earlier. The girl is already married andlives happily. So your prediction of dooms day did not occur at all. She got aboy of her choice and married. No hysterical maniac depressed MIL or nut hubby.You had for company many of her relatives who were cursing her for herforthright and frank expression of her expectations.

I have only this to say "ah what a warped mind set!!!"



That was not ancient wisdom. Just your wisdom.

These are my own replies to you and not the girl's. If her reply is different Iwill post it here when she sends it to me (on the next holiday)

Cheers.

Dear Raju,

If one uses common sense, then they will not have to use IT vocabulary !! when someone says - I want to marry a good boy, then one should have the common sense to undestand - okay now how do I determine he is a good guy !!!!

So, first she needs to list the right priorities like a good boy, good value system. then she should ask her parents, relatives to check his character through common friends, etc.. then she should steer the conversation & ask him questions (without becoming an interview) to understand what he would do under different cirumstances in her meeting, etc...

Instead of doing this, this girl is worried about mother looking at roof,hysterical, elder siblings not married, etc... LOL !! so if a elder sibling on his own does not want to marry then what is the problem ??. I can show many families where some siblings remain unmarried & they also embrace spirituality, join ashrams etc... what a silly criteria & silly mindset !!

The reality is that once a girl crosses 30+ yrs, she is willing to compromiseon anything, this is a fact, unfortunate but true. To your warped comment, Ican only say "oh what a crap mindset" !!.

She may be married & settled for now, but dont count on the happily part.Nobody knows & it is a Long long way to go in life.

Cheers,

 
Last edited:
Dear Tks,

The girl's answers to yr questions in bold letters are:

One of the list you may want to generate and even share are not just what you want but what you dont want explicitly. That way a prior checks could be made before a date. For example will it be acceptable if:
- Boy had a girl friend before but not in relationship now- No problem if he puts it behind and is ready to move on.
- Boy had a form of curable cancer - he is fully cured and from the best knowledge it is not hereditary but cause unknown.-No. I don't take chances in such matters.

- Boy may have had a spending problem resulting in personal bankruptcy (I am saying from example Indian fellows in USA) but since then has recovered and is now supposedly careful-No. I would prefer someone who is careful with his impulses.

- Boy has few too many traffic tickets showing carelessness but getting better-No. It is a window that opens into his nature. It is risky.

- Boy used to belong to Hare Krishna movement - left home, then came back and now has a good job- No. I would like to keep away from people who go to extremes.

- Boy has a problem watching porn secretly but once married he will be fine is the expectations -No. It is a depraved mind. I am scared of it.

- Boy has a stressful job - 9 am to 9 pm-No problem. I can manage. He can get around and can manage his time better. I will help him in that.

- Boy is a intervention cardiologist - his life revolves around patient calls.. So at night he may have to leave ..expects you to run the household and manages the children-No problem.

- Boy wants to have 4 or 5 children since he loves children-If health permits I wont mind.

- Boy is sincere, good looking, has a great job, well educated - but when he opens his mouth talks like an Asadu - voice tone, mannerism.-Such 'asadus' are great people to live with. I do not mind.

- Boy is too introverted but otherwise fine from all that is known through background checks-Ok for me. I can get along and even change him a little bit.

- Boy says he believes in UFO in the first date but otherwise fine-No

You get the idea .. Will you consider cases like this seriously or reject them. Which ones will you reject and why-​I have given you my answers. If you ask me to further justify elaborately I may not agree to do that.

Sri Raju

Thanks for forwarding the responses.

I think in the absence of getting to know someone the answer is likely to be No since there is no other available information.

Depending on the person there may be a few Yes response to examine further.

To The Girl - Hope you have a wonderful married life :-) I hope you do write about the story of selecting your husband through Sri Raju
 
Hi jaykay,
\
It has been a while, since my pre teen years, that I have heard of successful saabams. Are you sure that it was the parents’ saabam that prevented the son from having a child? Did the parents did not suffer at the absence of a grand child? How sure are we, that had the son acceded to the parents’ desire to live with them, a grand child would have been fructified with 10 months?

If the son could not get a natural born child, he could have adopted one. Couldn’t he?

To me it looks like these folks did not want children (yes there are folks like that, though personally I think they are missing out a great experience of a lifetime ie parenthood). So all in, they probably cheerfully admitted themselves to the old age home themselves.

Now you are talking about 40 or 50 year intervals. I thought old age homes came to india only recently ie past 10 20 years? Please explain.

Thank you.

I am one for saabams to come true. But in my experience, sadly, none of my saabams have been realized. Apart from the puranic age, I have not heard of saabams really happening.

.. but it is a good story anyway :)

Dear Kunjuppu,

No parent will put saabams on their kids. However when one dumps their parents in a old age home & the immense misery caused by such people, then it is "BIG PAAVAM", & hence it is a curse on them. Both his parents died in the old age home itself.

this guy got married when he was 31, & then they dumped their parents when he was 34. Now after 17 yrs he is 51 yrs.Hope ths timeline helps. 17 yrs back there were a few old age homes in chennai.

this is not a story. if you want I can give you the details of this horrible fellow & the old age home - you can do your investigations !!

Pl do not jump to conclusions.

Cheers,
JK
 
I have added a poll. Please Vote.
Dear Sir,

I did not vote! Shall tell you the reason. I find orthodox boys do not attract educated brahmin girls anymore.

I shall mention about three boys in our close family circle.

1. One of our nephews, who sports a tuft and lives like a real brahmin. Though he earns in lakhs, he was rejected by

many girls and their parents. Finally he got a post graduate in Sanskrit with the guidance of one of the AchAryAs!

2. Another nephew is not an I T professional. He is working in a small town with 35 K / pm and his parents are affluent.

Search is ON for nearly two years!

3. One non IT professional working in a reputed company, earning 70 K and we are searching for the past one year!

Though he lives in a metro city, so far no girl is willing to relocate!

So, the orthodox boys who live in small towns are NOT the only guys who find it difficult to get a suitable match!
 

I found this in my mail box today! Probably, a matrimony site in which we registered sold my mail id!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Sir / Madam,

I am a vedic astrologer based in chennai and specialize in marriage, matching related.

I can prepare a report with following details.

1. Will it be a love affair or an arranged wedding?

2. Reason for delays in getting married?

3. When marriage will happen?

4. Will there be divorce/separation/re-marriage?

5. Will there be pre marital affairs?

6. Reason for no marriage?

7. Children (Progeny) issues, if any

This subscription comes with UNLIMITED marriage matching with six consideration:

1. Longevity of both boy and girl.

2. Factors showing more than one marriage.

3. Mental and psychological health of both boy and girl.

4. Any Dosha like Manglik Dosha, Sarpa (Rahu) Dosha etc.

5. Strength of the seventh and second house (Rules marital ties and family).

6. Ashtakuta Guna Milap (North Indian) or Dasa Porutham (South Indian).


All the above consultancy by email only and costs Rs 1000/- payable in advance.

All emails will be replied within 24 hours of receipt. If interested, please let me know.
 
Dear Sir,
I did not vote! Shall tell you the reason. I find orthodox boys do not attract educated brahmin girls anymore.
I shall mention about three boys in our close family circle.
1. One of our nephews, who sports a tuft and lives like a real brahmin. Though he earns in lakhs, he was rejected by
many girls and their parents. Finally he got a post graduate in Sanskrit with the guidance of one of the AchAryAs!
2. Another nephew is not an I T professional. He is working in a small town with 35 K / pm and his parents are affluent.
Search is ON for nearly two years!
3. One non IT professional working in a reputed company, earning 70 K and we are searching for the past one year!
Though he lives in a metro city, so far no girl is willing to relocate!
So, the orthodox boys who live in small towns are NOT the only guys who find it difficult to get a suitable match!
Raji,

I am not surprised about the Vote. Hardly any one votes in Social/Religious forums. Because we are dealing with opinions. They are a success only in Tech forums where we are dealing with facts.

We had discussed this problem almost threadbare a couple of years back. You could see one of the discussion I started.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...ducation-employment-marriage-evolution-i.html

Most of my posts in this forum has been only about the problem of marriages in the community. That is because of the number of nephews/nieces and my sons getting married in the last 10 years.
 
Dear Sir,

I did not vote! Shall tell you the reason. I find orthodox boys do not attract educated brahmin girls anymore.

I shall mention about three boys in our close family circle.

1. One of our nephews, who sports a tuft and lives like a real brahmin. Though he earns in lakhs, he was rejected by

many girls and their parents. Finally he got a post graduate in Sanskrit with the guidance of one of the AchAryAs!

2. Another nephew is not an I T professional. He is working in a small town with 35 K / pm and his parents are affluent.

Search is ON for nearly two years!

3. One non IT professional working in a reputed company, earning 70 K and we are searching for the past one year!

Though he lives in a metro city, so far no girl is willing to relocate!

So, the orthodox boys who live in small towns are NOT the only guys who find it difficult to get a suitable match!

well tell them all to relax & do their daily pujas, traditions, etc !!. Life is a circus, what goes around comes around !.

Once they cross 35+ yrs, the 30+ girls & their parents will desperately chase them to get married at what ever cost !! - LOL!!!
 
well tell them all to relax & do their daily pujas, traditions, etc !!. Life is a circus, what goes around comes around !.

Once they cross 35+ yrs, the 30+ girls & their parents will desperately chase them to get married at what ever cost !! - LOL!!!

The boys seeking marriage are twice as many as girls. Statistics from the Swayamvarams conducted by this site proves it beyond any doubt. There will be no girls chasing these boys. These boys would be forced to stay single. That is the reason for my O.P.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The boys seeking marriage are twice as many as girls. Statistics from the Swayamvarams conducted by this site proves it beyond any doubt. There will be no girls chasing these boys. These boys would be forced to stay single. That is the reason for my O.P.

I fully agree, Shri Sharmah. I know the case of a 35 year boy. His parents are trying their best to get a tabra girl, not sagotram, fair, qualified and home-loving and all those kinds of parameters. This boy is located in an interior Kerala village and earns around Rs.35K per month. There is great difficulty even in getting a response from the side of any tabra girl.

In my foolishness (sincerity?) I tried to advise the boy and also his parents that they should relax many of their conditions and it will be better to look for complete veg. nair girls also. They seem to have taken offence for my advise!
 
Dear Sangom Sir,

Home loving educated girls are very very rare. It is possible for a boy, who earn less than 60 K,

only to get a girl from a poor brahmin family, if he is very particular about caste and sect!
 
The boys seeking marriage are twice as many as girls. Statistics from the Swayamvarams conducted by this site proves it beyond any doubt. There will be no girls chasing these boys. These boys would be forced to stay single. That is the reason for my O.P.

Sir,

Pl go to any of the matrimony sites (the swayamvaram on this site is just 1 sample to draw any conclusions), you will see it filled with Girls from all communities beyond 30+ yrs not only tabra looking to get married. I know from a 37 yr old boy & he says he is flooded with alliances from 30+ girls which he never expected. he was rejected many times in his 20s by the same girls :(, now chasing him :).

Cheers,
JK
 
I fully agree, Shri Sharmah. I know the case of a 35 year boy. His parents are trying their best to get a tabra girl, not sagotram, fair, qualified and home-loving and all those kinds of parameters. This boy is located in an interior Kerala village and earns around Rs.35K per month. There is great difficulty even in getting a response from the side of any tabra girl.

In my foolishness (sincerity?) I tried to advise the boy and also his parents that they should relax many of their conditions and it will be better to look for complete veg. nair girls also. They seem to have taken offence for my advise!

Dear Sangom,

Just tell them to post the profile of the boy in the major national matrimony sites, he will be flooded with alliances from all over India & the world !!.

Cheers,
JK
 
...... I know from a 37 yr old boy & he says he is flooded with alliances from 30+ girls which he never expected. he was rejected many times in his 20s by the same girls :(, now chasing him :).
May be that is why it is said, பொறுத்தார் பூமி ஆள்வார்! :couch2:
 
Dear Sangom,

Just tell them to post the profile of the boy in the major national matrimony sites, he will be flooded with alliances from all over India & the world !!.

Cheers,
JK

Create a fake profile, post it and try. You are living in a dream world.
 
I fully agree, Shri Sharmah. I know the case of a 35 year boy. His parents are trying their best to get a tabra girl, not sagotram, fair, qualified and home-loving and all those kinds of parameters. This boy is located in an interior Kerala village and earns around Rs.35K per month. There is great difficulty even in getting a response from the side of any tabra girl.
In my foolishness (sincerity?) I tried to advise the boy and also his parents that they should relax many of their conditions and it will be better to look for complete veg. nair girls also. They seem to have taken offence for my advise!
Sangom,

Remember this thread started by me.

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/genera...e-parents-arrange-inter-brahmin-marriage.html

Many of the members of this forum are not aware of the realities of life.

Where will the Brahmin Cooks and Sasthirigals get brides?

I found that it is very difficult to sell this idea to the Bihari Brahmins who are the main source for girls. But recently I heard about a marriage which kindles hope.

Thanks to Lalu Prasad Yadav, the Railways has become almost totally Bihari at the lower level. A Bihari man who is a Brahmin was recruited by the Railways (Not exactly the Railways. But by the contractor employed by the Railway) to cook food in the canteen in Tamil Nadu. He cooks Dosa and Idli etc. for Tamilians. Now he has got his sister married to a Tamil Brahmin who also a cook there.

According to a couple of TV features Gounders in Salem and Coimbatore district are getting girls from Kerala for their men.


 
You can wait until you cross 35 years of age and then keep your door open and wait for the girls in the 30+ age group to come chasing you and you can even become a modern day Krishna frolicking with a bunch of 30+ beauties. If none comes chasing as expected you can still wait up to forty and then wait for girls of 35+ to chase you. If nothing of that sort happens you can wait up to 70 years and wait for women of 65+ to chase you and pin you down because you won't be able to run anymore. Life is indeed a hide and seek game!!
 
you are assuming soft & cuddly means they have no fighting spirit or they are cowards. If you watch carefully, you will find the most toughest guys are those who are quiet & appear soft. Those who talk loudly & posture to fight will generally not stand a chance in a hand to hand combat.

All the south Indian kingdoms came under Vijayanagar & blocked the Islamic Invasion for 100s of years. that collaboration comes from a soft culture !! The many north indian kingdoms could not come together to fight the Birtish !!.


Regarding your point 2, most of the kids from the mixed marriages face so much rejections from Brahmins, almost all of them will marrry outside forever !!

Well said JayKay Sir
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest ads

Back
Top