Brahmin Marriages - Assertiveness/Aggressiveness of Girls - History and introspection

[suraju06]

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Dear Jaykay,

You have said ""oh what a crap mindset" !!."

Please mind your language and keep such language to yourself for frequent use in your immediate circle. Don't bring it here and spread it thin. We are decent people here.

Cheers.

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear Jaykay,

You have said ""oh what a crap mindset" !!."

Please mind your language and keep such stinking language to yourself for frequent use in your immediate circle. Don't bring it here and spread it thin. We are decent people here.

Cheers.

well you started using such language first - so Please mind your language and keep such stinking language to yourself for frequent use in your immediate circle. Don't bring it here and spread it thin. We are decent people here.

By the way, those who are sensitive & take offence to language should not dish out first !

 

[sankara_sharmah]

When the local Brahmins opposed their wishes they invited Brahmins from outside who would comply with their wishes.

This is how the Palakkad Brahmins were supposed to have been invited by the King of Palakkad who wanted to marry a tribal girl. Other stories are all forgotten.

Families of Brahmins also got banished if one person in their family committed Murder. This is the punishment according to Yagnavalkya Smiriti.

I am now transcribing a book

TRANS-HIMALAYA

DISCOVERIES AND ADVENTURES IN TIBET

BY

SVEN HEDIN

1909

A quote from the book which shows the total helplessness of the Brahmins. Am indication of their status/power in society. That too this was a petty Kingdom.

The Maharaja of Idar was a striking type of an Indian
Prince: he had a very dark complexion, handsome features,
and an energetic bearing; he dressed for entertainments in
silk, gold, and jewels, and altogether made an appearance
which threw all Europeans quite into the shade. Yet he
was exceedingly popular with them, and always a welcome
guest. He is a great sports-man, a first-rate rider, and an
exceedingly cool-headed hunter. He owes his great popularity
to the following incident: Once when an English
officer died in the hot season near his palace, there was
difficulty in finding a man to bury the corpse. As every
one else refused, the Maharaja undertook the odious task
himself. Scarcely had he returned to his palace when the
steps were stormed by raving Brahmins, who cried out to
him, with threats, that he had forfeited his rank, must be
ejected from his caste, and was unworthy to have rule over
the state. But he went calmly up to them and said
that he knew only of one caste, that of warriors; then he
ordered them to go away, and they obeyed.

 

[kunjuppu]

I am now transcribing a book

TRANS-HIMALAYA

DISCOVERIES AND ADVENTURES IN TIBET

BY

SVEN HEDIN

1909

A quote from the book which shows the total helplessness of the Brahmins. Am indication of their status/power in society. That too this was a petty Kingdom.

SS,

i am not surprised, at all, by this. this is probably true, judging by our own practices, just a few generations back. rigidity of caste and its consequences, has been the bane of india, and is dividing us now, more than ever, as all the hitherto, so called inferior castes, now are in the game, know how to play it, and enjoy giving today's brahmin what they feel, is duly deserved treatment, in return, for the insults meted out to their ancestors.

now we wish, racial memories should vanish, and let us all be equal, atleast in law, so that by crook, we can get back some of our privileges?

increasingly we will find, that we too want quotas. as we find, that the difference between merit based marks and quotas are getting narrower and narrower, and we as a community, do not even top the open quota. just an acknowledgement, given the right environment anyone can do well in school, and proving our howls and laments to be as hollow as the proverbial empty vessel.





ps.. i have great regard for sven hedin, both as an explorer and writer. coming from sweden he has few axes to grind re imperialistic britain. he has a cool nordic view of life, which i like.

 

[suraju06]

well you started using such language first - so Please mind your language and keep such stinking language to yourself for frequent use in your immediate circle. Don't bring it here and spread it thin. We are decent people here.

By the way, those who are sensitive & take offence to language should have the common sense not to dish out first !

Oh I see your point. In your English dictionary warped is equal to crap (Are you aware that thisword is used when you want to abuse). And suggesting that a girl will be willing to marry anything (not any one) is very decent. You do not appear to understand the difference between being critical and being abusive. Your immediate circle must be a strange bunch indeed.

I take strong objection to your using such abusive language here in this forum and justifying it and repeating it. I am reporting this to Sri Praveen for his decision and appropriate action.

I humbly suggest that you get a good English dictionary and keep it by your side when you sit before your computer.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Dear SS,

The Maharaja of Idar was a striking type of an Indian
Prince: he had a very dark complexion, handsome features,
and an energetic bearing; he dressed for entertainments in
silk, gold, and jewels, and altogether made an appearance
which threw all Europeans quite into the shade. Yet he
was exceedingly popular with them, and always a welcome
guest. He is a great sports-man, a first-rate rider, and an
exceedingly cool-headed hunter. He owes his great popularity
to the following incident: Once when an English
officer died in the hot season near his palace, there was
difficulty in finding a man to bury [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]the corpse[/COLOR]. As every
one else refused, the Maharaja undertook the odious task
himself. [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]Scarcely[/COLOR] had he returned to his palace when the
steps were stormed by raving Brahmins, who cried out to
him, with threats, that he had forfeited his rank, must be
ejected from his caste, and was unworthy to have rule over
the state. But he went calmly up to them and said
that he knew only of one caste, that of warriors; then he
ordered them to go away, and they obeyed.

The story is incomplete. It begs these questions:

1. If the king, as claimed by him, knew only one caste and that too the warrior caste to which he himself belonged, What was the role assigned by him ( as the king) to the brahmins and did he not think brahmin is also the name of a caste?

2. Were there only brahmins and warriors in that small country and no others?

3. 'Every one' refused to bury the body of that English Officer perhaps because they thought he was mlecha. Who were represented by this 'every one'?

I would venture to reason out this:

This was a small country and its society was having castes like all other hindu societies of that era. The brahmins were there from whom the king used to take advice on many matters including religion and statecraft. The brahmins were supposed to give advice to the king in critical moments on everything in which he or the citizens had a doubt. Brahmins interpreted Sastras and gave their advice as per the sastras. According to the sastra they referred to, a milecha's body was not to be touched by a King who in all probability was thought of as an avatar of God or Indra. In the eyes of another European, a Nordic as it happens to be, the brahmins became raving and the king became one who believed in only one caste. And we the Indians need such Europeans to interpret our history and scriptures because we consider them as sahibs. When this simple incident as reported with all its interpretational flaws by a Nordic, the arm chair revolutionaries get one more handfull of Aval (அவல்) to chew and pass judgment about the "always stupid, always arrogant, always casteist brahmin". The real culprit namely the society as a whole which formulated in the first place the caste system and sustained it for its own reasons always has to be treated as innocent. The kshatriyas, Vysyas, Shudras all had no role whatsoever in sustaining the caste system, they would want us to believe. A nice cock and bull story. நமக்கு காது இருக்கும் வரை, நாம் அனுமதிக்கும் வரை நமது காதில் இப்படி பூ சுற்றிக்கொண்டேதான் இருப்பார்கள்.

cheers.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Dear SS,



The story is incomplete. It begs these questions:

1. If the king, as claimed by him, knew only one caste and that too the warrior caste to which he himself belonged, What was the role assigned by him ( as the king) to the brahmins and did he not think brahmin is also the name of a caste?

2. Were there only brahmins and warriors in that small country and no others?

3. 'Every one' refused to bury the body of that English Officer perhaps because they thought he was mlecha. Who were represented by this 'every one'?

I would venture to reason out this:

This was a small country and its society was having castes like all other hindu societies of that era. The brahmins were there from whom the king used to take advice on many matters including religion and statecraft. The brahmins were supposed to give advice to the king in critical moments on everything in which he or the citizens had a doubt. Brahmins interpreted Sastras and gave their advice as per the sastras. According to the sastra they referred to, a milecha's body was not to be touched by a King who in all probability was thought of as an avatar of God or Indra. In the eyes of another European, a Nordic as it happens to be, the brahmins became raving and the king became one who believed in only one caste. And we the Indians need such Europeans to interpret our history and scriptures because we consider them as sahibs. When this simple incident as reported with all its interpretational flaws by a Nordic, the arm chair revolutionaries get one more handfull of Aval (அவல்) to chew and pass judgment about the "always stupid, always arrogant, always casteist brahmin". The real culprit namely the society as a whole which formulated in the first place the caste system and sustained it for its own reasons always has to be treated as innocent. The kshatriyas, Vysyas, Shudras all had no role whatsoever in sustaining the caste system, they would want us to believe. A nice cock and bull story. நமக்கு காது இருக்கும் வரை, நாம் அனுமதிக்கும் வரை நமது காதில் இப்படி பூ சுற்றிக்கொண்டேதான் இருப்பார்கள்.

cheers.

Sri. Raju,

I am surprised to see your post. Your point of View is New to me.

This is just a paragraph from the Travel Book of 701 pages, I am transcribing. This is only the first volume. The author was talking about meeting the King and gave a short introduction about him.

I had posted this only to buttress my post #12. This is not a discussion about the Caste system.

The Brahmins claimed to be the highest in the varna syatem. But only in Religious matters. Brahmins did not rule in the caste system. As per all the Smritis or the Hindu law books, the Kshatriyas were the ruling class. No exception. This is where the caste system differed from the class system of rest of the world. The Brahmins were the highest class but not the ruling class. They were as one said "The intellectual Aristocracy." In fact the scriptures specifically prohibited the Brahmins from acquiring wealth. A Brahmin should not store more than three day's requirement in his house. Poverty is the prescribed norm for a Brahmin. The Kings were exhorted to provide shelter and food for the Brahmins.

In all yagnas conducted by the Brahmins the yajamana (master) was always a king from other castes.

In the more than 3000 yeras of Indian history Brahmins have ruled less than 200 years. The Shudras have ruled for a much longer period of time. The Nanda dynasty was a Shudra Kingdom. The Mauryas were also Shudras. The Guptas were Vaisyas. The only Brahmin dynasty was the Kanva dynasty. That is why the Brahmins were allowed to live. If they had sought power they would have been wiped out long back.

Nanda Empire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Chandragupta Maurya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Brahmins were Raja Gurus. More like the Chancellors in the medieval British kingdoms. But they could be changed, killed or banished merely on the whim of a King. Expendable.

This is an incident which the author has heard from others. I do not think that the author inserted this is his book of Travel to Tibet to comment or pour scorn over the Brahmins or the caste system.

 

[suraju06]

Sri. Raju,

I am surprised to see your post. Your point of View is New to me.
This is just a paragraph from the Travel Book of 701 pages, I am transcribing. This is only the first volume. The author was talking about meeting the King and gave a short introduction about him.
I had posted this only to buttress my post #12. This is not a discussion about the Caste system.
This is an incident which the author has heard from others. I do not think that the author inserted this is his book of Travel to Tibet to comment or pour scorn over the Brahmins or the caste system.

Dear SS,

My post was more to answer the points raised by Sri Kunjuppu. You had said this earlier:

When the local Brahmins opposed their wishes they invited Brahmins from outside who would comply with their wishes.
This is how the Palakkad Brahmins were supposed to have been invited by the King of Palakkad who wanted to marry a tribal girl. Other stories are all forgotten.
Families of Brahmins also got banished if one person in their family committed Murder. This is the punishment according to Yagnavalkya Smiriti.

There are also stories/real life incidents recorded which speak about Kings ordering a brahmin to be tied to a stone and drowned in the sea, king ordering the eyes of a brahmin to be gorged out etc., So it was always the king and the castes which held up and supported the king who ruled the society. The brahmins never had freedom to say what they wanted. It was always the sword to their neck which made them interpret scriptures and sastras to the advantage of the ruling castes represented by the king. On those rare occasions when brahmins courageously spoke truth either they were guilletined or thrown into the sea. Even today this is the case. The modern way of guilletining is to deny them a job and the modern equivalent og throwing them into the sea is to drown them in hatred and hostility. This is what I am telling here.

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom,

Just tell them to post the profile of the boy in the major national matrimony sites, he will be flooded with alliances from all over India & the world !!.

Cheers,
JK

Dear Sir,

I am told that the boy's full profile is in more than one matrimony site. Still, it is not eliciting any response from the girls' side; the boy's parents are regularly scanning the sites, picking up suitable cases and following them up. In one or two cases the boy's parents had to even hear very harsh admonitions like "வேறெ வேலையே இல்லியா உங்களுக்கு? பையன் எங்களுக்கு ஸூட் ஆனால் நங்களே ஃபோன் பண்ண மாட்டோமா? ஏன் இப்படி disturb பண்ணறேள்?"

 

[Jaykay767]

Oh I see your point. In your English dictionary warped is equal to crap (Are you aware that thisword is used when you want to abuse). And suggesting that a girl will be willing to marry anything (not any one) is very decent. You do not appear to understand the difference between being critical and being abusive. Your immediate circle must be a strange bunch indeed.

I take strong objection to your using such abusive language here in this forum and justifying it and repeating it. I am reporting this to Sri Praveen for his decision and appropriate action.

I humbly suggest that you get a good English dictionary and keep it by your side when you sit before your computer.

Cheers.

Dear Raju,

well what you think is abusive need not be abusive for others. If you go to an english man or american, they will routinely use such language & it is not considered abusive. Infact these are words used in regular collogiual usage !

Nothing wrong in saying a girl will marry anyone or anything !!! - it is more a humor than to upset or insult someone. I would have used the samething with Boys if the context of the discussion was other way around - that Boys were rejecting traditional girls. I was only talking about 30+ yr unmarried girls so I was not pointing to the girl you were referring to.

you seem to be a very very sensitive person, so my humble request to you is - please dont dish out to others !! ie, dont make sarcastic comments, use slang words to others, use similar language to word your comments that you expect others to do.

if you use a slang, others also will use similar slang words !!

By the way, please dont worry about my english, I am similar to those tabras who can speak better english than the english man himself - LOL !!!

Cheers,
JK

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Sri. Raju,

The Brahmins have always suffered because they upheld their beliefs. They were scorned/punished even in Mahabharata and some of the Puranas. Remember the treatment meted out to Dronacharya by King Dhrupath. I can also quote many instances from Indian history.

And they were not the favourites of the British as historians would like us to believe. They were hated. I remember one incident in the autobiography of a senior ICS officer in Kolkata. A Brahmin Jamindar came to meet him. He was accompanied by a man carrying a pot of water. He shook the hands of the British officer and immediately washed his hand with the water poured out by his servant. Before leaving he also told the officer that he has to take a bath on reaching his house.

Here was a man who treated the White racist supremist with contempt. The British officer had to swallow the insult as the Brahmin was rich, educated and powerful. The British believed that by eliminating the influence of the Brahminsm they could get keep India permanently under slavery. The held the Brahmins responsible for the freedom movement. That is why they encouraged the anti-Brahmins and Muslims. These are all recorded. The English Parliament directed the East India Company to ensure that the non-Brahmins were given priority in admission to schools and colleges. The reservations started from the advent of the English educational system. They admitted Brahmins only because they could not get anyone else. They had no other students.

The Brahmins were not afraid of punishment. They were targeted by the Muslim rulers and the British.

We have not bowed down for thousands of years. We should not bow down now and ask for reservations.

 

[biswa]

How come the ranks of the ICS were largely populated by Brahmins then, if they did not want to serve the British?

 

[renuka]

I remember one incident in the autobiography of a senior ICS officer in Kolkata. A Brahmin Jamindar came to meet him. He was accompanied by a man carrying a pot of water. He shook the hands of the British officer and immediately washed his hand with the water poured out by his servant. Before leaving he also told the officer that he has to take a bath on reaching his house.

Dear Sir,

This I find really amusing cos firstly the Brahmin is a Zamindar??
I thought Zamindar are the ruling class and not Brahmins.

So what I find amusing is that a person who has left his traditional profession and taken up Zamindarism is still washing his hands after touching another person?


Or may be he acquired all that land from generations of receiving Bhu Danam and became a Zamindar??

 

[Raji Ram]

.........This I find really amusing cos firstly the Brahmin is a Zamindar??
I thought Zamindar are the ruling class and not Brahmins.........

Dear Renu,

Many brahmins were zamindArs. In fact Ram's father was one!! :thumb:

They own lot of lands and have servants who are very loyal to them. They are also called 'PaNNaiyAr's.

The main source of income is from their fertile lands. There will be a room in the front of the house to store the paddy

harvested from the lands. They used to refer to that room with a special name. Shall find out and let you know!

You must read the 'NandhanAr chariththiram' to know how cruel some of the paNNaiyArs were in those days!

My great grandma used to say that even in rich brahmin houses, they used to keep a long bamboo cut across cut into half,

to make a long canal and use it to pour butter milk to the untouchable servants! It seems they won't pour as a continuous

stream but will pour with small breaks, to avoid 'echchil' from the untouchable. I wonder how the 'echchil' will travel all the

way up to reach the buttermilk 'chombu'!! :dizzy:

 

[Raji Ram]

In a few brahmin houses in villages, even now, the girls with their monthly periods are NOT allowed to touch the taps to collect water.

The fear is that the overhand tank will become contaminated with 'theettu'!! Someone else in the house will keep a bucket of water to be

used by the girls on 'those days'!

 

[tbs]

Dear Sir,

This I find really amusing cos firstly the Brahmin is a Zamindar??
I thought Zamindar are the ruling class and not Brahmins.

So what I find amusing is that a person who has left his traditional profession and taken up Zamindarism is still washing his hands after touching another person?


Or may be he acquired all that land from generations of receiving Bhu Danam and became a Zamindar??

hi renu,
my grand father was zamindar...one who has a lot of land is zamindar....zamin darayati iti zamindar....

 

[suraju06]

Dear Raju,

well what you think is abusive need not be abusive for others. If you go to an english man or american, they will routinely use such language & it is not considered abusive. Infact these are words used in regular collogiual usage !
Nothing wrong in saying a girl will marry anyone or anything !!! - it is more a humor than to upset or insult someone. I would have used the samething with Boys if the context of the discussion was other way around - that Boys were rejecting traditional girls. I was only talking about 30+ yr unmarried girls so I was not pointing to the girl you were referring to.
you seem to be a very very sensitive person, so my humble request to you is - please dont dish out to others !! ie, dont make sarcastic comments, use slang words to others, use similar language to word your comments that you expect others to do.
if you use a slang, others also will use similar slang words !!
By the way, please dont worry about my english, I am similar to those tabras who can speak better english than the english man himself - LOL !!!
Cheers,
JK

Dear Jaykay,

This is a matter which was earlier also discussed in this forum. Expressions such as crap,bull s**t, the middle finger gesture etc. were all flaunted by learned members here in the heat of a discussion and always the explanation was that they live in a western society in which these are all accepted as normal. But i don't buy this argument. I have friends who are nationals of European and other Asian countries. and they never use such expressions in decent conversations. Moreover I travel a lot and my experience has never exposed me to such languages. As I read a lot , I can say with confidence that these are all expressions which are perhaps part of the lingo of unlettered American long haul truck drivers. So I am taken aback when I come across such expressions in decent circles. Sarcasm and healthy banter are part of any spirited conversation and so are welcome as they add spice to the subject. People generally do not take offence to that. I am happy that you are confident about your language and that encourages me to rest my case as you would have clearly understood what I have said here in this post.

Cheers.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear friends,

When time permits, those who have not yet read these pages, please go through the posts # 103, 104, 105 in this page and

#111 and 113 in this page! I have given a hilarious account of my experiences with 'madi and AchAram' in my in-law's house,

soon after my wedding!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear friends,

When time permits, those who have not yet read these pages, please go through the posts # 104, 105, 106 in this page and

#111 and 113 in this page! I have given a hilarious account of my experiences with 'madi and AchAram' in my in-law's house,

soon after my wedding!

 

[sankara_sharmah]

Dear Sir,

This I find really amusing cos firstly the Brahmin is a Zamindar??
I thought Zamindar are the ruling class and not Brahmins.
So what I find amusing is that a person who has left his traditional profession and taken up Zamindarism is still washing his hands after touching another person?

Or may be he acquired all that land from generations of receiving Bhu Danam and became a Zamindar??

Renuka,

The information would have been a surprise to most here. That is because we rarely read history especially social history because there are very few books. All the books are written from the point of view of the rulers, British and then Govt. of India. Political correctness is the term. Recently a number of books have been written from the Dalit Point of View. But what about the Brahmin's point of view? Just because the earlier historians were mostly Brahmins, every one accuses them of Brahminical point of view. But the fact is they wrote what was politically correct.

The traditional professions of the Brahmins is not only priesthood, but also acquiring Knowledge and disseminating it for future generations. That is why they had Brahmins like Bhaskara Bhatta, Patanjali, Yagnavalkya, Chanakya and others. Whatever India can claim as literary heritage was the contribution of Brahmins. Chanakya wrote Artha Sasthra which all about administration of a kingdom. A Brahmin also wrote Kamasutra by far the most popular of all the Sanskrit texts all over the world.

Brahmins have played the role of administrators for thousands of years. They played that role even when the Kings were invaders and were not Hindus. Birbal was a Brahmin.

Birbal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most of the Zamindars in India acquired their Zamins by being soldiers. They were soldiers who conquered places for the King and were rewarded with vast tracts of land. That is why most of the Zamindars and big landlords in Tamil Nadu were Telugus and Kannadigas because the Telugus and Kannadigas ruled Tamil Nadu for more than 300 years.

This is true of all the Kingdoms of India. But the Kings can not run a Kingdom only with soldiers. They needed Administrators. As I said earlier the Brahmins administered the Kingdoms for them.

You have to reward these people. These Brahmins were given large tracts of land. They became Jamindars later. Bengal was mostly ruled by the Muslims. They had Brahmin administrators who were given a lot of land and money. They became Jamindars.

Again scholars and educators have also to be rewarded. From the sasthras some one had estimated how much Yagnavalkya received as a prize when he won the great debate on the nature of Brahman. It comes to an colossal amount of a couple of Billion dollars.

But receiving all this money did not make them give up their Brahminical observances. Yagnavalkya wrote a Smiriti a law book.

One Brahmin whose story illustrates this in the recent past is Appayya Dikshita. He must have been very rich.

Appayya Dikshita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I will narrate another incident to show how little do we know about our society.

In his autobiography Sri. K.P.S Menon who was an I.C.S officer has written about an incident.

One of the first persons to acquire a Motor Car in Kerala was an Ezhava (Dalit). He was staying in Vaikom. He had employed a Nair as a driver. The road to the town goes around the Vaikom temple. As a Dalit the owner was not allowed to use that road. So he used to get down from the car when he reached near the temple and walk through the lanes to get around the temple. His driver would drive around the temple and wait for him there.

This curious incident which indicates the cruelty of untoucahbilty also indicated another important fact. Dalits were not prevented from acquiring money. In Kerala they had the monopoly of one of the most profitable business. Dealing in Liquor. They still enjoy that monopoly. Only Christians compete with that business.

Did your history books ever tell you that there were many Dalits who were very rich?

I come from a long line of lawyers. My ancestors gave legal advice to every one who could afford it. Nairs, Dalits, Muslims, Christian and also English men. They were orthodox Brahmins.

I remember Sri. M.R. Radha a die-hard anti-Brahmin recalling his Brahmin school teacher with respect and affection.

Brahminism is not a caste. It is a set of values and a way of living which emphasizes those values.

Myself, my wife and children admire, and respect the Honorable President of India Dr. Abdul Kalam. To us he is the Real Brahmin.

 

[sankara_sharmah]

We are all prisoners of the oppressive caste ridden society.

Unfortunately I do not see any sign of our coming out of this.

When an intellectual like Kancha Ilaiah talks about Dalits not becoming Priests in temples, no one asks him

1. Whether a Dalit could become a Achari. Carpenter, Gold Smith or a Sthapathi? The answer is NO.

2. Even among the Dalits could a Vettiyan (the caste dealing with dead bodies) become a Dhobi? The answer is again a NO.

3. Why the Dalits practiced untouchability among themselves. Why were Vettiyans considered Untouchable even by Dalits? Has it disappeared among them?

And we call ourselves intellectuals and thinkers.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

You are right!

Dalits practice untouchability among themselves.

They will not marry the other sects/ sub sects /people of other professions etc.

But a Brahmin girl will marry ANY one these sects/ sub sects/ people of other professions quite shamlesssly - since we are intellectuals and highly evolved and advanced in culture.

A boy from our village ( a mudaliaar) wanted to marry a Brahmin girl. His argument was that Brahmins are not objectionable on any ground.

Do you know how his father handled the situation. He asked the boy,
"If the younger sister of this girl (whom you wish to marry) gets married to a hari jan tomorrow, can you face the world claiming that man to be your co-brother-in-law (sagalai?)"

Of course the marriage did not take place. The mudaliaar boy was not prepared to take any chance with the fickle minded Brahmin brides.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

I know a very smart young boy in marriageable age, well employed, good looking, pious, free from any bad habits, working in a bank, drawing a fat salary.

The girls who is fortunate enough to marry him will get everything she can ever ask for... a loving family, silks, jewels, A.C car and what not.

BUT the sincere efforts to find a bride has not been fruitful for the past 3 and 1/2 years.

The reason.. the boy live in Palghat.

Isn't Palghat the cultural center of agmark Brahmins???

Then why this aversion???

He was just 28 when the search was launched. Now he is 31!!!

 

[sangom]

We are all prisoners of the oppressive caste ridden society.

Unfortunately I do not see any sign of our coming out of this.

When an intellectual like Kancha Ilaiah talks about Dalits not becoming Priests in temples, no one asks him

1. Whether a Dalit could become a Achari. Carpenter, Gold Smith or a Sthapathi? The answer is NO.

2. Even among the Dalits could a Vettiyan (the caste dealing with dead bodies) become a Dhobi? The answer is again a NO.

3. Why the Dalits practiced untouchability among themselves. Why were Vettiyans considered Untouchable even by Dalits? Has it disappeared among them?

And we call ourselves intellectuals and thinkers.

Dear Shri SS,

We are prisoners of not a caste-ridden society but of caste superiority in some way or other. While you mention (extol?) Brahminism in post # 142 above, why should we not concede that in much the same way, there can be elite concepts of "Dalitism", "Mudaliarism/Naadaarism" or even "Vettiyaanism" each one of these "not a caste, but a set of values and a way of living which emphasizes those values"; why do we tend to forget this simple truth?Kancha Ilaiah and may be others too, seek to become temple priests, but orthodox vadamas or (may be even vadama iyengars) may be looking down upon Gurukkals or their equivalent. Hence Ilaiah is just asking for only a space in the life of traditional brahmin life style, imho, and not full-blown brahminhood.

In Kerala, I am told that people belonging to many castes - and not only the goldsmiths by caste or the taṭṭāns - are now doing gold ornaments manufacturing for the very large jewellery chains and many are even graduates!

I agree with you that the tabra views in this forum are mostly supporting the high values of the so-called "Brahminism"; I am reminded of the Deva Bhaashaa joke of NSK here.

 

[mkrishna100]

That's the keyi.e they lived in Tier-2 City . . Had they been in Bangalore , Chennai then the success rate would be more .
In my family I had many seen many of my cousins daughter's flatly refuse to see any boys unless they are from Chennai , Bangalore .
I know of one Girl ( she is a family friend ) , whose Inlaws were from a Tier-2 City but had very good business , own house ,car , servants etc and after marriage the boy and girl were first in Chennai , then Dubai and Singapore ( he was working as a Management Counsultant ) and later after 5-7 years of marriage he decided to go back to his house in the Tier-2 city and take care of his father business and lead a more calm life but the Girl flatly refused saying she has no possibilities for career / night life/ socializing activities in a Tier-2 City except for watching the TV and cooking for him and her in laws and she decided to terminate the marriage . Now they are divorced after 7 years of marriage .They have no kids also as she refused to have kids as it interfered with her professional work .
Both the Boy and Girl are back to square one i.e single again .