Brahmins eating non-vegeterian

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

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Shri nannilam sir,

Brahmana value system has undergone sea changes during the last two decades or so, with very many of our youngsters emigrating to foreign (western, mainly) countries and settling down there, establishing their families and bringing up their offsprings there. Necessarily, these young couples have to make very many changes to the original, home-made tabra life-style and value systems if they and their kids have to survive and flourish in those exotic milieu. Eating NV food, drinking or even getting drunk, drink and barbecue parties, and so on thus usually become part of their life style there. A good percentage of such people will not admit to any of these "deviations" when they visit India on vacations for fear of causing grief to their parents, elders, etc.

So long as our tabra agenda remains one of material prosperity of our children and our finding satisfaction by bragging about the trickle-down effects of such prosperity to ourselves (apartments in posh condominia, or super-rich gated communities, latest & high-cost cars and the best FMCG brands, and so on) I feel we should be humble and honest enough to admit the changes in our value systems and move on ahead, instead of making a mountain out of such mole-hills such as eating NV food. If we cannot stand NV, let us not eat, that's all; let us not bother whether other brahmins are eating NV or not.

I do not want to say anything on the above. But then I would
like to add that my sister's children and other relatives children
who are employed there are able to maintain certain level without
any deviation. In fact my BiL's son, who is employed there cooks
food for him and eats. He avoids going out to Non-Veg hotels.

Balasubramanian

 

[renuka]

Shri nannilam sir,

Brahmana value system has undergone sea changes during the last two decades or so, with very many of our youngsters emigrating to foreign (western, mainly) countries and settling down there, establishing their families and bringing up their offsprings there. Necessarily, these young couples have to make very many changes to the original, home-made tabra life-style and value systems if they and their kids have to survive and flourish in those exotic milieu. Eating NV food, drinking or even getting drunk, drink and barbecue parties, and so on thus usually become part of their life style there. A good percentage of such people will not admit to any of these "deviations" when they visit India on vacations for fear of causing grief to their parents, elders, etc.

So long as our tabra agenda remains one of material prosperity of our children and our finding satisfaction by bragging about the trickle-down effects of such prosperity to ourselves (apartments in posh condominia, or super-rich gated communities, latest & high-cost cars and the best FMCG brands, and so on) I feel we should be humble and honest enough to admit the changes in our value systems and move on ahead, instead of making a mountain out of such mole-hills such as eating NV food. If we cannot stand NV, let us not eat, that's all; let us not bother whether other brahmins are eating NV or not.

To a certain extent I feel Sangom ji's post is a well balanced post.

Let me share my Non TB point of view..even among Non TB's they keep lamenting about how these days youths do not follow any culture etc.

Frankly speaking I think each generation laments about the generation after them..so the oldies of these days feel they are better than the present youth but we should ask the parents of the present day oldies..for all you know their parents (if alive) would say "aiyoo I was so much better than my son etc..'what culture he is following now etc"

So you see..this is nothing new..just ask our parents and they will feel they were better than us in values,morals etc.

As humans grow older they need to feel good and have a sense of worth..hence there is a grandeur feeling to distract the signs and symptoms of an aging body and aging mind.

I feel we can only choose what we want for ourselves and not impose our personal values on others..I am sure no one likes to be imposed upon and like wise we should not be over imposing.

Lifestyle change..previously males were getting married during teens and gunning it with their barely pubertal one menstrual cycle old wives ..but these days if an unmarried 25 year old has sex..everyone laments and plays moral police as if one big earth shaking crime on the Richter of 10 had been committed.

What is the big difference?? After all sex is sex..its classified under Kama...be it Halal or Haram!

The best thing to do is to respect the decisions of others and let each one lead the lives they have chosen for themselves..if someone is happy being Vegetarian let him be happy..if someone is happy being Non Vegetarian..let him be happy... thats his choice.

Moral of the story: We are here for our own salvation and NOT to rule the world.

 

[prasad1]

I do not want to say anything on the above. But then I would
like to add that my sister's children and other relatives children
who are employed there are able to maintain certain level without
any deviation. In fact my BiL's son, who is employed there cooks
food for him and eats. He avoids going out to Non-Veg hotels.

Balasubramanian

That is admirable, but still Mr. Sangom's POV is right, live by your values and let others live by their values.

 

[sangom]

I do not want to say anything on the above. But then I would
like to add that my sister's children and other relatives children
who are employed there are able to maintain certain level without
any deviation. In fact my BiL's son, who is employed there cooks
food for him and eats. He avoids going out to Non-Veg hotels.

Balasubramanian

Sir,

I have also heard similar accounts from people here in India, about their children and other close relatives who are settled down abroad. But my sons, who are more sincere and truthful towards me, tell me that it will be really difficult to completely avoid NV food in practical situations, in many parts of foreign countries. Even in London, if you are asked to work overtime and cannot go to your house for food (incidentally, my youngest son in London - unmarried - cooks vegetarian food for himself) you are not likely to get veg. food except coffee and bread. People find it sometimes difficult to work on such coffee and bread throughout the night.

Secondly, the children are usually invited for birthday parties of their class mates and in such parties it is not always possible, nor civil, to sit by the side of your kid and guide him/her as to which items are veg and which are all NV and hence should be avoided. Hence it may so happen that children taste some NV item or another and pick up a taste for that too. Unless our relatives lead a hermit-like lifestyle, it is difficult to socialize with a very strict vegetarian agenda, I am told.

Perhaps the people whom you refer to have told you that they continue to be strict vegetarians for fear of offending you by telling the truth. That is what I feel.

 

[kunjuppu]

Sir,

I have also heard similar accounts from people here in India, about their children and other close relatives who are settled down abroad. But my sons, who are more sincere and truthful towards me, tell me that it will be really difficult to completely avoid NV food in practical situations, in many parts of foreign countries. Even in London, if you are asked to work overtime and cannot go to your house for food (incidentally, my youngest son in London - unmarried - cooks vegetarian food for himself) you are not likely to get veg. food except coffee and bread. People find it sometimes difficult to work on such coffee and bread throughout the night.

Secondly, the children are usually invited for birthday parties of their class mates and in such parties it is not always possible, nor civil, to sit by the side of your kid and guide him/her as to which items are veg and which are all NV and hence should be avoided. Hence it may so happen that children taste some NV item or another and pick up a taste for that too. Unless our relatives lead a hermit-like lifestyle, it is difficult to socialize with a very strict vegetarian agenda, I am told.

Perhaps the people whom you refer to have told you that they continue to be strict vegetarians for fear of offending you by telling the truth. That is what I feel.

dear sangom,

i would tend to agree with you.

tambrams in the west, whenever they visit india, like to project themselves as still maintaining the culture tradition foodhabits and such. they would like their indian relatives/friends to believe, that their lifestyle is just the same as in india, except they live in the west, where life is easy.

maybe some do. maybe others dont. but i would not ever use those claims as a bragging point here.

i see there is nothing to be ashamed if one wants to eat nonveg or drink alcohol. those who have moved away from india, should realize, that EVERY value that they brought with them, will be questioned by their children, some adopted and many discarded. such is life. why talk of their children? they themselves will convenient cast away all what appeared to be bothersome stuff.

a muslim colleague from pakistan told me something interesting...all the women who board the pia plane at toronto dress fashionably western and no headscarf...and within a hour of landing in pakistan, everyone would transform themselves to those baggy pants, and headscarfs or full angis. the moral of the story..when in rome, do as the romans...not everyone but many do.

 

[sarang]

Brahmanas who value vegetarianism will stick to and find vegetarian food wherever they are. Some who have respect for tradition and vegetarianism, but deviate, may one day return to their old ways when there is no need to deviate. Of course, some jump into the pool with full glee and enjoy the fares, will work hard to justify their act. Strict vegetarian pillais and chettiars too have to face this dilemma.

I have not faced any problem remaining a vegetarian in any foreign land. All the companies and executives I have interacted with, understood the issue, respected it, and ensured that a tolerable veg menu was provided. It must be easy now, with increased awareness to vegetarianism, and with more veg items available in supermarket shelves.

 

[Nara]

...... Unless our relatives lead a hermit-like lifestyle, it is difficult to socialize with a very strict vegetarian agenda, I am told....

No dear Sangom, this is not true. I can't stand onion, though I love mild levels of garlic, and it is very difficult for me to find food that I can enjoy outside of home, in India, no problem in USA, and I would imagine this to be true in western European countries as well, I don't know. I really like to be vegan, but the most resistance to this choice comes from my closest family members.

The difficulty you are talking about was true decades ago. Those days I had to make sure something vegetarian will be available before hand when I went to office luncheons, or parties or restaurants, no more. There is always vegetarian options at every course, Hors d'oeuvre, entrée, and often even dessert. Just last week during lunch the waiter found me eggless ginger cookies to go with my espresso when I refused the cakes she offered on account of eggs. When people order food when working late it is often pizza and there will always be cheese or veg pizza as a matter of routine.

I have no sympathy when people lament loss of Brahminical values and cite Brahmins eating non-veg. If that is the way to lose it, I would welcome it. But, Vegetarianism is not Brahminical value and those who are honest know it already. For someone who was brought up veg to take up NV by claiming they had to, no other choice, well, to put it overly mildly, they are being disingenuous. If they like NV, they need to be honest about it, not hide behind made up excuses.

And, there are many persuasive reasons to adopt a vegetarian only life style. PETA takes an aggressive approach, some are really creative and I love them. Some border on the religious, which I can understand without condemning or condoning. There are many other deeply thoughtful arguments for vegetarianism. I would urge members to read up the Australian philosopher Peter Singer, he makes a very persuasive case for adopting vegetarian life style.

 

[Nara]

....I have not faced any problem remaining a vegetarian in any foreign land. All the companies and executives I have interacted with, understood the issue, respected it, and ensured that a tolerable veg menu was provided. It must be easy now, with increased awareness to vegetarianism, and with more veg items available in supermarket shelves.

Oh my dear brother sarang, this is a moment I want to celebrate, we both are on the same side (except the first para about jAti, but I have deleted that from the quoted text). This is making me giddy....

love you brother sarang

 

[sangom]

< snipped >
For someone who was brought up veg to take up NV by claiming they had to, no other choice, well, to put it overly mildly, they are being disingenuous. If they like NV, they need to be honest about it, not hide behind made up excuses.

Dear Shri Nara,

I had written what my son, who lives and works in London, had told us some time ago. I am not aware of his office location, the hotels nearby, whether some pizzza joint was open in the area late at night etc. But I know he likes to stick to vegetarian food as far as possible and was telling us of the difficulty he faced during one period of his working life. He used to be asked to stay on for the full night usually at around 9 or 10 P.M. whereas he was hoping to return and have some already cooked meal at his home.

I will not buy your line that all such difficulties are simply "disingenuous" excuses, at least in my son's case. Perhaps the saying is correct that only a woman who has given birth in the natural way (not caesarian) will know delivery pain!

 

[Nara]

...I will not buy your line that all such difficulties are simply "disingenuous" excuses, at least in my son's case. Perhaps the saying is correct that only a woman who has given birth in the natural way (not caesarian) will know delivery pain!

Why not? Afterall your son did not take up NV. Therefore, the fact is, your son's case strengthens what I have stated. Those who take up NV in the West claiming it is difficult to stay Veg here is simply lying, it is just not true.

 

[kunjuppu]

canada and usa, i am sure some of you will be surprised, is a vegetarian's paradise.

not only are there all our traditional indian vegetables fruits (atleast in canada) are available but right throughout the year. this because we import these both from the north and southern hemisphere where the seasons are reversed. ie we get mangoes in winter too.

there are various categories of vegetarianism here - vegan eggan veggie and so on. all of these are now affordable lifestyles in an average sized cities. one even gets goats milk in the supermarkets, something i dont know if folks in chennai can get.

i know this is not the same in certain countries. japan for one comes to my mind. but i am sure, with its huge south asian population, and popularity of chicken tikka, the flavour of the british palate is kind now towards indian spices. so i would tend to think that being a veggie in u.k. is also quite manageable.

not sure in the scandinavian countries or russia or east europe but again italy greece spain with its abundance of vegetables one can be a veggie and manage. i know brazil is tough re lentils which they dont have and refuse to import (dont know why).

nowadays, if one wants to be a veggie, one can do so with the ease of importing food anywhere in the world. a visitor to japan will find it tough. so too in china. but these are exceptions.

 

[prasad1]

Sir,

I have also heard similar accounts from people here in India, about their children and other close relatives who are settled down abroad. But my sons, who are more sincere and truthful towards me, tell me that it will be really difficult to completely avoid NV food in practical situations, in many parts of foreign countries. Even in London, if you are asked to work overtime and cannot go to your house for food (incidentally, my youngest son in London - unmarried - cooks vegetarian food for himself) you are not likely to get veg. food except coffee and bread. People find it sometimes difficult to work on such coffee and bread throughout the night.

Secondly, the children are usually invited for birthday parties of their class mates and in such parties it is not always possible, nor civil, to sit by the side of your kid and guide him/her as to which items are veg and which are all NV and hence should be avoided. Hence it may so happen that children taste some NV item or another and pick up a taste for that too. Unless our relatives lead a hermit-like lifestyle, it is difficult to socialize with a very strict vegetarian agenda, I am told.

Perhaps the people whom you refer to have told you that they continue to be strict vegetarians for fear of offending you by telling the truth. That is what I feel.

I would not go to extent you are taking it to. There are ways to eat vegetarian food and even vagan food nowadays unless you are in middle of Sahara, antarctica, or some other remote places. If some one gives that excuse they are not telling the truth.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Shri Nara,

I had written what my son, who lives and works in London, had told us some time ago. I am not aware of his office location, the hotels nearby, whether some pizzza joint was open in the area late at night etc. But I know he likes to stick to vegetarian food as far as possible and was telling us of the difficulty he faced during one period of his working life. He used to be asked to stay on for the full night usually at around 9 or 10 P.M. whereas he was hoping to return and have some already cooked meal at his home.

I will not buy your line that all such difficulties are simply "disingenuous" excuses, at least in my son's case. Perhaps the saying is correct that only a woman who has given birth in the natural way (not caesarian) will know delivery pain!

There are misinformation and misinformed.
I can understand someone to be misinformed, but to claim that to be true is misinformation. I have stayed in London, Manchester, and various other places that too 30 years ago. There was always some vegetarian food available.

If you eat food outside of your home in India, you should not have difficulty with finding vegetarian food almost anywhere.
The question is can you guarantee that was prepared in a Brahminical Vegetarian way? No there is no way, and that is why even in India my mother would never eat Hotel food.

All said and done, eating habits should be an individual's choice, and that individual should be honest about it if ASKED.

 

[tbs]

canada and usa, i am sure some of you will be surprised, is a vegetarian's paradise.

not only are there all our traditional indian vegetables fruits (atleast in canada) are available but right throughout the year. this because we import these both from the north and southern hemisphere where the seasons are reversed. ie we get mangoes in winter too.

there are various categories of vegetarianism here - vegan eggan veggie and so on. all of these are now affordable lifestyles in an average sized cities. one even gets goats milk in the supermarkets, something i dont know if folks in chennai can get.

i know this is not the same in certain countries. japan for one comes to my mind. but i am sure, with its huge south asian population, and popularity of chicken tikka, the flavour of the british palate is kind now towards indian spices. so i would tend to think that being a veggie in u.k. is also quite manageable.

not sure in the scandinavian countries or russia or east europe but again italy greece spain with its abundance of vegetables one can be a veggie and manage. i know brazil is tough re lentils which they dont have and refuse to import (dont know why).

nowadays, if one wants to be a veggie, one can do so with the ease of importing food anywhere in the world. a visitor to japan will find it tough. so too in china. but these are exceptions.

hi k sir,
yes...its paradise of vegetarians....there are ppl more than 40 yrs in usa...even they never had problem....now a lot of

indian grocery stores....like saravana bhavan/woodlands types restaurants are plenty......IF THERE IS A WILL ..THERE IS A WAY....

food is personal choice.....my wife works in SUBWAY AS RESTAURANT MANAGER IN USA.....she says subway veg foods

more fresh than indian veg restaurants... SUBWAY IS PARADISE FOR VEGANS.....EVEN VEG/CHEESE PIZZAZ ARE PLENTY...

even i never had non veg food in army or any USA/CANADA.....its choice.....

 

[tbs]

hi sir,

The question is can you guarantee that was prepared in a Brahminical Vegetarian way? No there is no way, and that is why even in India my mother would never eat Hotel food.

just info....my uncle had so BRAHMIN'S HOTEL in chennai for more than 45 yrs old.......even in chennai brahmin hotels... there

is no so called BRAHMINICAL VEGETARIAN WAY FOOD...ITS NOT MADI SAPPADU.....the cook is always non brahmin in

many brahmin hotels in chennai...ONLY OWNERS ARE BRAHMINS.....

 

[amala]

I can personally vouch that the UK and even most of Western Europe is far far more vegetarian friendly than Malaysia! even Australia and Kiwiland (this is not personal experience but from parents/sibling). Having said that, if you can eat and enjoy Chinese/Japanese vegetarian, then there is absolutely no problem finding pure vegetarian food in Japan and Beijing (no garlic/onions, but plenty of tofu and seaweed though)

 

[amala]

I'm sure we all know about bhaktha Kannappa (Thinnappa) who used to offer Lord Shiva meat. So let us not judge people by the food they eat.

 

[sarang]

Cooks have emigrated to lucrative pastures. I am sure, special brahmin food cooked by brahmin festivals will be held in 5 star hotels in the not too distant future. By the way I have seen sprouting of 'brahmin cafe' in south.

There are still some madi respecting vathiyars and sticklers, who excuse themselves from kalyana sappadu and limit to taking only fruits. In three weddings I attended last year, madi thaligai was available for family elders and for very orthodox sets.

hi sir,

The question is can you guarantee that was prepared in a Brahminical Vegetarian way? No there is no way, and that is why even in India my mother would never eat Hotel food.

just info....my uncle had so BRAHMIN'S HOTEL in chennai for more than 45 yrs old.......even in chennai brahmin hotels... there

is no so called BRAHMINICAL VEGETARIAN WAY FOOD...ITS NOT MADI SAPPADU.....the cook is always non brahmin in

many brahmin hotels in chennai...ONLY OWNERS ARE BRAHMINS.....

 

[renuka]

I can personally vouch that the UK and even most of Western Europe is far far more vegetarian friendly than Malaysia!

100% true..try travelling on highways and stop for food out here...its so so hard to get anything vegetarian in the R & R (rest and recreation) stops.

Most of the time one just has to eat fruits and corn in the cup!

 

[auh]

This seems to be a "phoenix" thread.

 

[Raji Ram]

I'm sure we all know about bhaktha Kannappa (Thinnappa) who used to offer Lord Shiva meat. So let us not judge people by the food they eat.

The problem is that people don't care to have bhakthi like Kannappa but wish to eat what he offered to the Lord! :hungry:

 

[Raji Ram]

This seems to be a "phoenix" thread.

Does a phoenix have more than nine lives?

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Is it difficult to live without a non-vegetarian item!!

Balasubramanian

 

[Raji Ram]

Is it difficult to live without a non-vegetarian item!! .....

No Sir! But brahmins eat non.veg either for fun or to relish a different taste! :decision:

 

[Raji Ram]

I can't stand the sight of nonveg stuff, mainly the smell! :yuck:

Even in some parties where they serve such stuff, I keep away from people eating those stuff.