Brahmins eating non-vegeterian

[Sastri]

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In TN, it is common for people to make fun of vegetarians ("thayir satham"), whom they inevitably assume to be brahmins. It is a tough situation, especially for the kids.

The vegetarians are considered as having an "attitude", which, IMO, is non-existent in most cases, and people constantly bitch about it! I have seen people give up on vegetarianism just to escape this bickering The funny thing is people who eat Non-Veg themselves make fun of those who eat stuff not palatable to them - like pork, as is common in the west, or snakes, as the chinese do.

I applaud you for being true to your convictions on this issue.

I have not been spared too of this nick name 'thayir saadam'. I order curd rice on most occasions to fight flatulence, acidity or heart-burn rather than to an affinity for the recipe or to an 'attitude'.

When I was in a non-tamil speaking state, whenever i order thayir saadam in the food court of our organization, a lady colleague, a non-tamil non-brahmin would hasten to comment 'oh, you are a brahmin and hence u order curd rice'. Such was the impact of the brahmin-curd rice nexus.

 

[Saisha]

Practice before you preach...Yes I do practice. I am in US for many years but do not eat any sort of non-veg....(even cakes and chocolates that have eggs in them). I neither give non-veg to my kid. If you test the urine of a person who had non-veg, it will have some toxicity which you will not find in a vegetarians urine. Being an Iyengar, I do not even eat onion and garlic. We have to take pride of the rich heritage our ancestors have passed to us and should follow the customs. In US, even some of the yogurts/sour cream/ice-creams/candies have gelatin in them. Gelatin is non-veg and kindly google it for more information. Vegetable soups have chicken broth in them in them. What they call potato soup has bacon in it. I did extensive research on this and do not eat outside mostly. I would survive with bananas and the food that I carry for travel. So we have to be careful with the food items that we buy in Grocery stores. I am in IT and my hubby too. He has no bad habits. Wherever we are, we can be what we want to be. I am happy to see many brahmins in USA are rigid.

 

[ganeshanu]

hi,
good one. but god is responsible for creating such a situations and he has to solve if he really wants.i went to many contries butbi never touched non-veg. still i am following brahmins culture. this is the the time to prove our selfs that our's is meaningful life in all aspects but people of other caste didn't accept this because they donot want to downgrade themelfs which is common in human being.we should spread the good things continuously with out putting ouselfs on top of the society' then only the people accept it

 

[kdevarajan]

Dear Shri Chandrasekaran,

Let me first tell you that I am a non-conformist old tāttā of 72 years. Due simply to the time for which I have lived, I have had the opportunity of seeing (and also been compelled to copy) the brahmin lifestyles of people born from 1880's and also to see the very present generation of brahmins. Believe me, I can vouchsafe on the honour of my word that Brahmins have degenerated without any shadow of doubt during this period.

Let us forget the superficial trappings. I remember people of my grandfather's and great grandfather's generation [I was lucky to see my mother's mother's father who lived very hale and hearty up to a ripe old age (for those times) of 84 years.]. They were a distinct set, I would say. The honesty, value they gave to oral promises/assurances, their knowledge of Sanskrit and hence of our scriptures, their attitude towards gurujis, swamijis and others of that genre, their views on temples vs worship within the homes, in almost all aspects the tabra community (at least in Kerala) has changed a lot. I find these changes to be degenerative for our community.

Simply by performing Sandhyaavandanam twice or thrice a day, sticking to vegetarian food and being a teetotaller, I do not think that today's degenerate brahmins will be able to regain even a small percentage of their past glory or brāhmaṇyam, if that word expresses all aspects special to a brāhmaṇa.

Your complaint is about the youngsters of today drinking, eating NV food, etc. Our ancient ancestors, the rishis who have been named as givers of each sooktam, have extolled the virtues of a drink called Soma. Indra, the main deity in the Rigveda is depicted as getting highly in rapture drinking the Soma juice offered to him. (R.V. IX-12). Similarly, if you take the trouble of studying our scriptures, it will be seen that eating non-vegetarian was not alien to the brahmins of yore. In fact some of the smritis recommend the meat of different kinds of animals to be given to the braahmanas in the Sraaddha rite so that the pitrus (manes) remain satisfied (without hunger) for different lengths of time.

In sum, therefore, there is really no relation to one's "brahmin-ness" and his/her being vegetarian, teetotaller, performer of sandhyaavandanams, etc. Your motto of "It is better to die standing than to live kneeling"! will be good as long as you keep it your personal policy or motto.But, it will be foolish to set standards of brahmin-ness for others based on a few items which you feel are important.

If you truly want to be a brahman, get back to a Vedapatashala immediately, learn vedas and sanskrit as best as you can, adhere to the nityakarmaanushtaana prescribed under the sootra your family has been following and then think of one of the permitted jobs for brahmins which are —sva dharmo brāhmaṇasyādhyayanam adhyāpanam yajanam yājanam dānam pratigrahāsca (arthaśāstra I-3-5 to7)

The permitted sva-dharma for brahmins are learning and teaching of vedas, performing oneself and on behalf of others of yajnas, offering and receiving gifts or dānam,

Dear Thatha,

Beautiful, awesome words of wisdom. My grandparents and great grandparents were the kind of brahmins you talked about. Excellent knowledge of scriptures, discipline, sanctity of words and virtues defined a good human being (brahman).
We are just following brahmnism superficially as u rightly said by doing Sandhyavandanam, vegeterianism and alcohol etc.
Brahminism first and foremost implies a thorough knowledge of scriptures (Vedas et al)
and then leading your life as per scriptures.
Till then we are just clutching on to symbolic straws of brahminism.

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

Does it. mean that the god fearing orthodox Brahmins of this age should either go to vedapatasala and learn Sanskrit and scriptures
to prove their brahmanism or otherwise they can leave whatever they practice as brahmins and lead a life as per whims and fancies?

 

[kdevarajan]

Hi

Brother,

My point is we cannot call urself an "orthodox Brahmin" unless we dont know our scriptures ourself. We need to know Sanskrit and read our Vedas ourself rather than getting second hand knowledge from others.

Superficially following brahminism is one things (doing Sandhi etc.) but there is more to brahminism than mere rituals, which is what we need to imbibe.

Meanwhile it is certainly good to do Sandhi, be vegetarian etc. but that is just one small aspect of brahmnism.

regards,
Devarajan Krishnan

Does it. mean that the god fearing orthodox Brahmins of this age should either go to vedapatasala and learn Sanskrit and scriptures
to prove their brahmanism or otherwise they can leave whatever they practice as brahmins and lead a life as per whims and fancies?

 

[9868836164]

Dear Sirs,
Brahmanisamis not only abstaining from NVs, drinks, etc. or learning vedas alone. Such things will only help one practise brahmanism. What is brahmanism means that one should be able to see brahmam in everything. There is no caste for this. The one who does his dharma strictly, sincerely and seeing brahmam in everything is the true brahman.

 

[prasad1]

Practice before you preach...Yes I do practice. I am in US for many years but do not eat any sort of non-veg....(even cakes and chocolates that have eggs in them). I neither give non-veg to my kid. If you test the urine of a person who had non-veg, it will have some toxicity which you will not find in a vegetarians urine. Being an Iyengar, I do not even eat onion and garlic. We have to take pride of the rich heritage our ancestors have passed to us and should follow the customs. In US, even some of the yogurts/sour cream/ice-creams/candies have gelatin in them. Gelatin is non-veg and kindly google it for more information. Vegetable soups have chicken broth in them in them. What they call potato soup has bacon in it. I did extensive research on this and do not eat outside mostly. I would survive with bananas and the food that I carry for travel. So we have to be careful with the food items that we buy in Grocery stores. I am in IT and my hubby too. He has no bad habits. Wherever we are, we can be what we want to be. I am happy to see many brahmins in USA are rigid.

Well said, and welcome.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sirs,
Brahmanisamis not only abstaining from NVs, drinks, etc. or learning vedas alone. Such things will only help one practise brahmanism. What is brahmanism means that one should be able to see brahmam in everything. There is no caste for this. The one who does his dharma strictly, sincerely and seeing brahmam in everything is the true brahman.

Brahmanism could be practised in those days when the chAturvarNya system could hold the Indian society together. Even while this existed, we find that the vedic practices were openly opposed by the philosophies propounded by Buddha, Mahaveera, Brihaspati thru Charvaka, etc., and, slowly, the upanishad-composers also stressed a radically different philosophy with the concepts of Brahman, rebirth, etc. Thus, brahmanism changed its course from meemaamsa orientation to brahman-realization orientation.

Came Macaulay with his minutes on Indian education (1835) and tabras, at least, found a great opportunity to better ourselves materially and took to English education and government jobs, like ducklings to water; brahmanism of the upanishadic mold was practically forsaken. Recently we got another opportunity to better ourselves — in the new IT sector (which also goes by the name 'coding coolies'), and once again, we brahmins of Tamil Nadu, took the fullest opportunity and thousands, if not lakhs, migrated to the west.

And, it is the harsh truth that a good percentage of such tabra emigrés have, wisely, adopted almost all the practices and customs of their adopted country and this includes NV food of all types, drinking etc. Some who have not so adopted and adapted the culture of their new homeland catch onto one or another relic of old-age brahminism like vegetarianism, not eating onion & garlic, etc. While these are personal likes and dislikes, it is ludicrous to flaunt such foibles as examples of adhering to brahmin way of life; it is like the fool who caught hold of the tail of the elephant running amock and was being dragged, but claimed that he has "caught the elephant"!

It will be a lot more honest and courageous to admit that we have irretrievably lost brahminhood but are brahmins on government records only.

 

[Vaagmi]

Brahmanism could be practised in those days when the chAturvarNya system could hold the Indian society together. Even while this existed, we find that the vedic practices were openly opposed by the philosophies propounded by Buddha, Mahaveera, Brihaspati thru Charvaka, etc., and, slowly, the upanishad-composers also stressed a radically different philosophy with the concepts of Brahman, rebirth, etc. Thus, brahmanism changed its course from meemaamsa orientation to brahman-realization orientation.Came Macaulay with his minutes on Indian education (1835) and tabras, at least, found a great opportunity to better ourselves materially and took to English education and government jobs, like ducklings to water; brahmanism of the upanishadic mold was practically forsaken. Recently we got another opportunity to better ourselves — in the new IT sector (which also goes by the name 'coding coolies'), and once again, we brahmins of Tamil Nadu, took the fullest opportunity and thousands, if not lakhs, migrated to the west.And, it is the harsh truth that a good percentage of such tabra emigrés have, wisely, adopted almost all the practices and customs of their adopted country and this includes NV food of all types, drinking etc. Some who have not so adopted and adapted the culture of their new homeland catch onto one or another relic of old-age brahminism like vegetarianism, not eating onion & garlic, etc. While these are personal likes and dislikes, it is ludicrous to flaunt such foibles as examples of adhering to brahmin way of life; it is like the fool who caught hold of the tail of the elephant running amock and was being dragged, but claimed that he has "caught the elephant"!It will be a lot more honest and courageous to admit that we have irretrievably lost brahminhood but are brahmins on government records only.

Dear Mr. Sangom,

What a way to trash professions! If IT pros are coding coolies, all administrators will be file reading coolies and Bank officers will be either cash counting coolies or key-board tapping coolies and we can add the appendage coolie to every profession. A teacher like me can be called a chalk piece consuming coolie. It appears you are not well informed on the brahmins who have migrated. 9 out of 10 brahmins living abroad whom I know live a life as they lived in India. They do not eat non-veg food, do not drink, do not live a licentious life like the majority in those countries where they have settled. Their dress has changed, language has changed (though they speak mother tongue at home and insist on children too speaking the mother tongue when at home). They do not perform some of the rituals because of lack of facilities and regret it. They have carried with them to those distant lands their cultural practices, value system and religion. Please check up with a larger sample size.

 

[renuka]

Dear Mr. Sangom,

What a way to trash professions! If IT pros are coding coolies, all administrators will be file reading coolies and Bank officers will be either cash counting coolies or key-board tapping coolies and we can add the appendage coolie to every profession. A teacher like me can be called a chalk piece consuming coolie.

Dear Sir,

Technically all of us are coolies...we are all engaged in service to others for a fee to sustain ourselves.

So going by that definition even I am a coolie to my patients.

The word coolie is not an insult...it just denotes a worker.

Out here some people tend to look down upon those who collect the trash and when the trash lorry comes by many people hold their noses in front of the workers.

I always tell my son..."do not hold your nose like others when they see a trash lorry cos the workers might feel insulated by this gesture..we need to respect them for their service that none of us will do..so at least for their sake bear the smell which they bear the whole day long"


BTW sir..There is only One master and the rest are His workers.

Well didn't Rajini sing :


Oruvan Oruvan Mudhalaali
Ulagil Matravan Thozhilaali

There's just one! There's just One Master!
The rest of us in this world are mere workmen.

 

[vkswamy84]

If a person wishes to stay as a teetotaller and vegetarian / vegan, it is possible anywhere in this world. It is not at all necessary

to have alcoholic drinks with friends and colleagues. The mind has to be strong. Brahmins start eating N V stuff just to enjoy the

new taste. If a person from other religions do their prayers at regular timings and visit temples on particular days, the brahmins

are the first to adore them, whereas many of them mock the practice of SandhyA vandhanam and regular visit to the temples.

It is very sad indeed! :tsk:

Dear Members :


I could not understand why Mr. Dinesh Chandrasekharan started this thread without knowing the basic idea about vegetarian and non-vegetarian. Ms. Raji Ram rightly quoted

"If a person from other religions do their prayers at regular timings and visit temples on particular days, the brahmins are the first to adore them, whereas many of them mock the practice of SandhyA vandhanam and regular visit to the temples"

We are all discussing about individual right.

First of all we all should know the basic idea "Why we should take food"? Just for survival. For survival we should necessarily take something. Without eating we can survive. For survival, during early civilisation man kill animal and eat and gradually turns into have least living things like leaves, fruits, seeds, etc. Every living being have life but when we cut trees, leaves. fruits, vegetables we are not feeling the pain of the least living thins and it will not hurt our feelings. When we kill animals practically we can see its atrocities and certainly we will have some kindness about the animal being killed. Here we can say only we will have the flesh in different dishes and at different restaurants. Animal killed by someone and cooked by someone. Why can't we enjoy. If you practically see the flesh of animal will not digest and it will come out whereas the vegetables will have lot of ingrediants, vitamins, etc. etc. even though most part of vegetables go waste as roughage.

Irrespective of caste or creed it is better to adopt vegetarian food for survival of long life and get more strength.

Good thing we should adopt rather than lingering unnecessary conversation.

I request everyone to take my version in a right spirit.

Regards,
VKSWAMY

 

[auh]

There is a video (old one) by PETA "Meet your Meat" and is a must watch (warning: graphic torture scenes included) for the advocates of NV - brahmin or not.

Going by that, even milk should be had from the local milkman only.

 

[sangom]

Dear Mr. Sangom,

What a way to trash professions! If IT pros are coding coolies, all administrators will be file reading coolies and Bank officers will be either cash counting coolies or key-board tapping coolies and we can add the appendage coolie to every profession. A teacher like me can be called a chalk piece consuming coolie. It appears you are not well informed on the brahmins who have migrated. 9 out of 10 brahmins living abroad whom I know live a life as they lived in India. They do not eat non-veg food, do not drink, do not live a licentious life like the majority in those countries where they have settled. Their dress has changed, language has changed (though they speak mother tongue at home and insist on children too speaking the mother tongue when at home). They do not perform some of the rituals because of lack of facilities and regret it. They have carried with them to those distant lands their cultural practices, value system and religion. Please check up with a larger sample size.

Shri Vaagmi sir,

The epithet "coding coolies" for our nouveau riche IT sector employees, is not my invention. This is very commonly used in the media at certain levels and also by the so-called clients/principals abroad who contract out to our IT firms like Infosys, TCS, Cognisant, etc., etc. This label came into usage because despite enough opportunities and, may be, financial support, India and Indian IT sector could not invent/develop any worthwhile program/software/computer utility/peripheral or anything of that sort which could get a patent. That was, I think, possibly caused by the sudden rush of wealth in the hands of the younger generation who could not think of anything else than enjoying a western life style, and also because our IT firms looked upon their employees more like mere coolies and were extracting as much as from pack animals or beasts of burden.

Yes, it trashes our IT industry but not the people who did and are still slogging in that sector.

I can see your anger probably because you have some glorious notions about our Indian IT sector. But it is not possible to change the world's view in line with your (or, for that matter, my) world view.

 

[prasad1]

Person who has lost his leg, can be called physically challenged, but to call him Langda, is heartless.
Similarly you can use derogatory term for others, but that is not right. Similarly the word collies was used as a derogatory term by the British and should viewed as such.

 

[Vaagmi]

Shri Vaagmi sir,
The epithet "coding coolies" for our nouveau riche IT sector employees, is not my invention. This is very commonly used in the media at certain levels and also by the so-called clients/principals abroad who contract out to our IT firms like Infosys, TCS, Cognisant, etc., etc. This label came into usage because despite enough opportunities and, may be, financial support, India and Indian IT sector could not invent/develop any worthwhile program/software/computer utility/peripheral or anything of that sort which could get a patent. That was, I think, possibly caused by the sudden rush of wealth in the hands of the younger generation who could not think of anything else than enjoying a western life style, and also because our IT firms looked upon their employees more like mere coolies and were extracting as much as from pack animals or beasts of burden.
Yes, it trashes our IT industry but not the people who did and are still slogging in that sector.
I can see your anger probably because you have some glorious notions about our Indian IT sector. But it is not possible to change the world's view in line with your (or, for that matter, my) world view.

Dear Mr. Sangom,

Your coding coolies are not "nouveau riche". They are comparatively well paid but they slog in their work stations for more than 10 hours, much beyond the mandatory 8 hours. They also work according to the American time or European time depending on who their client is. When there were opportunities we were no where near it. We were a third world developing country struggling to feed our millions with frequent visits of drought, depending on the ship loads of PL480 rotten wheat that was landing in Indian ports. When the chip came on the scene and subsequently it was exploited fully we were at best only consumers. But now the situation has completely changed. If the westerners pay for and prefer Indians it is because of their knowledge power. It is not out of any largeheartedness on their part or an act of charity. As for there being no patent, we do not invent the wheel all over again to patent it. My view on this aligns with the world view only as much as yours. Thanks.

 

[Ckmum]

Though an old post, there is some information to be shared

Harvesting The Biosphere: Book Review | Bill Gates
As they note in this article, 1 kg of average meat requires 10 kg of grains to be fed to animals.

Another information: The methane produced by livestock (not naturally born ones but bred in poultry, etc) is so much more than ones in wilderness that the global warming is accelerated many times.

 

[M S Ramesh]

many a times brahmins end up doing things which were not earlier in their gambit at all like hard jobs etc. which means they get into contact with people of other practices. this finally leads to many things.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Some people say since they are provided with such items in the Parties, Get-together
etc. they are unable to keep away. Some say on crossing Indian borders, they have
no other go. Some say Kashmiri Brahmins are non-veg., while in Bengal, they do not
eat meat but they eat fish. Even in south India, some people eat quietly in Hotels.

Balasubramanian

 

[prasum76]

Hi Dinesh,

As you said as a corporate person i have seen brahmin teenagers eating nonveg and having alcohol just for show off and fun.......

One thing you should understand . As a brahmin self control is our first karma than any thing else. Thats is not seen now with most of our teenagers.

And i dont agree that u have to remove ur identities while you go out with other peoples. And no body is insisting you to do this, and we should not be ashamed for having our identity.

Once you lost your karma then what is there to speak about those peoples.

Who will eat non veg? Animals coz its nature and god has given so many things to eat for human being.

There is a proverb " Vinasa Kaley Vibareetha Budhi".

Thats all we can say....... rest you leave it to god.....

regards
Prasannna

:help: Hi all,

Most brahmin teenagers nowadays, started eating non vegeterian.This had drastically increased in brahmin families from all part of the state.I am from coimbatore and i have been to chennai and bangalore as i work in IT.Being a teenager myself have always followed and lived the life of a how a brahmin should be.But,I see a lot of my fellow men drinking along with other colleagues for the sake and to show themselves as they can mix with any kind of people and sometimes for getting promotions they do so.I do believe in a policy that think "It is better to die standing than to live kneeling"!.

I sometimes endup in arguements and atlast i would not be able to give a correct reason for brahmins not eating non vegeterian.I stongly believe that scientific reasons are behind in each and every action that we do and the parents of most of the brahmin families not knowing, end up loosing in arguement with their children and other brahmin haters.So,can anyone help to get this sorted out.Because if we teenagers started practising all the old rituals,customs followed in earlier days,I am sure that we can have a better peaceful life and i do know that, the world moving towards technology,science has influence us more.Moreover, we staying away from home can stop us from doing the basic karma but will not stop us completely.So,stil basic things like sandhyavandhanam and gayathri can done as how a muslim helps other fellow men of his in getting a job and how a north indian employs another north indian in his business the same can be tried by a brahmin to stop extinction of brahmins.Its all the unity and support that he needs.So says the famous lyric of eminem."Everybody everybody come take my hand,We'll walk together through the storm,watever weather cold or warm.Jus let u knw that you r not alone".OM SAI RAM

 

[sadasivam.sridharan]

Some people say since they are providedcarcass such items in the Parties, Get-together
etc. they are unable to keep away. Some say on crossing Indian borders, they have
no other go. Some say Kashmiri Brahmins are non-veg., while in Bengal, they do not
eat meat but they eat fish. Even in south India, some people eat quietly in Hote

Balasubramanian

These are all lame excuses.Unless there is inherent detest for food prepared from animal carcass people will eat it any way.

 

[auh]

Are all rich brahmins stretching their hand to help the poor B (or NB)? Why then the obsession with what the other eats? Perhaps we all like to point out perceived deficiencies in others...

But having said that, I have found that socializing is a bit difficult sometimes due to the NV habit, in gatherings and the like. Generally cleanliness is also on the decline...

 

[sangom]

Even the staunchest vegetarian proponent will, if he/she is starved for about 10 or 15 days, eagerly eat any NV food if that is the only thing available then. We should recall Vishwamitra eating the dog-flesh from the hands of a Chandala. All this "pavishu" about vegetarianism of brahmins is only skin-deep.

 

[kunjuppu]

Even the staunchest vegetarian proponent will, if he/she is starved for about 10 or 15 days, eagerly eat any NV food if that is the only thing available then. We should recall Vishwamitra eating the dog-flesh from the hands of a Chandala. All this "pavishu" about vegetarianism of brahmins is only skin-deep.

dear sangom,

i tend to agree with you.

in 1972 there was a plane crash in the andean mountains of chile. isolated. rescue came only 72 days later. the survivors literally ate the flesh of the dead to keep them alive. here is one of the stories.

I-eat-piece-friend-survive-Torment-1972-Andes-plane-crash-survivor-haunted-ordeal-40-years-laterl

 

[kanchankapoor]

Humanity & Social Commitment Which Creates a Great Culture.

I'm not Tamil, myself Punjabi,

Eating non-vegetarian food items & drinking alcoholic drinks is not a sin. Of-course there are some health benefits from being a vegetarian. As suggested above by Renuka "Lead the life you are happy with & let others decide for themselves what makes them happy."

As per my understanding to figure out overall Tamil Brahmins eating behavior, we should have a look on some famous Tamil Matrimony sites like Shaadi.com or Bharat Matrimony. Here we can find so many Tamil Brahmins eating non-veg, they also drink occasionally. Which is fine. There eating & drinking behavior are not creating problems to Tamil Brahmins society.

It is all Humanity & Social Commitment which creates a great culture.
தமிழ் பிராமணர்கள் - ஒரு கிரேட் கலாச்சாரம்.