Drums of war

[Nara]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

"I am scared of the Americans and the Taliban"

After eight years of war this is what an Afghan doctor says, "I am scared of the Americans and the Taliban", and an old Afghan man says, "this war has made me afraid of the dark."

Read this harrowing article from The Nation magazine.

Some excerpts:
Qarar, agriculture minister's spokesman, says after one of his cousins was taken away on suspicion, and in the process two other cousins, who were just innocent bystanders, were killed by Americans.

• "Did they have to kill my cousins? Did they have to destroy our house?" Qarar asked. "
• "I used to go on TV and argue that people should support this government and the foreigners," he added. "But I was wrong. Why should anyone do so? I don't care if I get fired for saying it, but that's the truth."

Sher Khan occasionally acted as a driver for a police commander whom US forces had detained on suspicion, which made him suspicious in American eyes.

• The interrogators blindfolded him, taped his mouth shut and chained him to the ceiling, he alleges. Occasionally they unleashed a dog, which repeatedly bit him. At one point they removed the blindfold and forced him to kneel on a long wooden bar. "They tied my hands to a pulley [above] and pushed me back and forth as the bar rolled across my shins. I screamed and screamed." They then pushed him to the ground and forced him to swallow twelve bottles of water. "Two people held my mouth open, and they poured water down my throat until my stomach was full and I became unconscious," he said. "It was as if someone had inflated me." After he was roused, he vomited uncontrollably.
• Four months later he was quietly released, with a letter of apology from US authorities for wrongfully imprisoning him.

About new restrictions on US forces under NATO command

• The American troops that operate under NATO command [....] may now officially hold detainees for only ninety-six hours.....
• American soldiers, when questioned, bristle at these restrictions -- and have ways of circumventing them.
• "Sometimes we detain people, then, when the ninety-six hours are up, we transfer them to the Afghans," said one marine who spoke on the condition of anonymity.
• "They rough them up a bit for us and then send them back to us for another ninety-six hours. This keeps going until we get what we want."
• The actual change, however, is more subtle: the detention process has shifted almost entirely to areas and actors that can best avoid public scrutiny--small field prisons and Special Operations Forces.

US Troops POV:

• "You can't trust anyone," said Rodrigo Arias, a marine based in the northeastern province of Kunar. "I've nearly been killed in ambushes, but the villagers don't tell us anything. But they usually know something."
• For Arias, it's a matter of survival. "I want to go home in one piece. If that means rounding people up, then round them up." To question this, he said, is to question whether the war itself is worth fighting. "That's not my job. The people in Washington can figure that out."

Afghan POV:

• Taliban forces ambush American convoys as they pass through it, and then retreat into the thick fruit orchards nearby. The Americans return at night to pick up suspects.
• In the past two years, sixteen people have been taken and ten killed in night raids in this single village of about 300, according to villagers.
• In the same period, they say, the insurgents killed one local and did not take anyone hostage.
• The people of Zaiwalat now fear the night raids more than the Taliban.
• There are nights when Muhammad's children hear the distant thrum of a helicopter and rush into his room. He consoles them but admits he needs solace himself. "I know I should be too old for it," he said, "but this war has made me afraid of the dark."

 

[RVR]

US administration never thinks alternate methods of tackling violence.

They don't want to think like Mahatma Gandhi.

If Indian freedom struggle has taken the violent route, it would have been much easier for the British to tackle it.


Now Americans have come to a situation like catching a tiger's tail. They can neither leave it as it is nor can afford to prolong the battle.

American economy is already in the doldrums and will worsen if the battle continues

Let us hope for the best

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr. Narayanan,
What is your point? If you ask the victims of World Trade centre bombing, you would hear many equally pathetic tear jerkers. But the sequence of events should also be kept in perspective. If you indulge in mischief and bomb a crowded super market you will be punished. It is as simple as that. If you are angry with the US go to war with them and attack their army and take what they give in return. you will attack innocent citizens of US and then wail over the retaliatory action of US army. This some justice indeed!!

 

[Nara]

... you will attack innocent citizens of US and then wail over the retaliatory action of US army. This some justice indeed!!

The amazing thing is even seemingly educated and intellegent people think the poor Afhgans are responsible for 9/11. Pray tell Shri Raju, how many Afghans were involved in the 9/11 attacks?

What is the point you ask? The point is it is the stupid policies that come back to bite not just the Americans, but the rest of the world also.

What is the point you ask, ask the same of the American politicans who send poor soldiers and ask them to risk their lives for the sake of chicken hawks who want to shoot shoot and shoot, sitting in their a/c rooms and driving their fancy cars.

What is the point you ask? Just imagine if Sri Lankan army comes into your house and does these same terrible things because of LTTE atrocities, just try if you can to put yourself in their shoes, it is called empathy.

Justice is not leveling a country for a sad situation created by outsiders. There is a long list of nations that have to face justice, but won't, because they are powerful.

Demanding justice from women and children is total cowardice. Long before 9/11. the Soviet Union and Americans made Afghanistan one of the battle grounds for their proxy war, who is to face justice for that?

People who support black-site torture, night-time raids that kill innocents, have no business talking about justice. Killer sharks know more about ahimsa than the justice these people know.

 

[Nara]

US holds the world record in the number of military interventions in foreign lands. The sordid history of US military conquest will make the stomach of even Genghis Khan turn.

Texas, to California, the Americans expanded their territory through military might or sneaky politics. Central and South America were CIA's fiefdom staging coup de tats like having coffee for breakfast. History of Haiti is shining example of the terrorism, armed, political, and economical they practiced upon a freedom loving people that eventually left them the most impoverished nation in the western hemisphere.

In more recent times, all over latin America, country after country, Bolivia, Columbia, Venezuela, Chile, Brazil, Argentina, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Honduras, country after country, US supported miltiary dictatorships that brutally suppressed their own citizens so that the Americans have cheap banana and sugar.

US stands as the only country to have used the A-bomb and killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians to teach their military a lesson and to presumably avoid deaths of US servicemen. The Japanese were on the verge of total defeat at that time is too fine a point I suppose.

In our own neighborhood, they made a deal with the devils in Saudi Arabia which is one of the reasons for the sufferings of the poor and powerless all over even Islamic countries, particularly Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Iran today is a repressive Islamic country because of the stupid policies of past American governments.

US is the only staunch supporter of the criminal regime in Israel that brutally and callously crushes civilians every few months, not to mention the day-to-day humiliations they are made to endure.

World-wide, the US has been responsible, directly or indirectly, for uncountable deaths and maiming over the the last two centuries.

On 9/11 some 19 monsters from Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and other Gulf counties flew planes into American buildings and about 4000 innocents died, and hundreds of millions in property damaged. (Many would say this is nothing compared to the death and destruction Americans have caused, but violent retaliation is never a good answer.)

Taliban was made to pay for giving sanctuary to Al Qaeda, the perpetrators of 9/11, even though this could have been achieved without massive bombing, but that is another story. Now, they are out. Eight years have passed. There is about 100 or 150 Al Queda left in Afghanistan.

Yet, the war is continuing. Here is a summary of civilian, just civilian not counting Taliban, deaths since 2001.

2001 - 2003

• direct civilian deaths: at least 3,100 to 3,600
• indirect civilian deaths: at least 3,200 - 20,000
• direct & indirect civilian deaths: 6,300 - 23,600

2004 - data not available


2005

• direct civilian deaths: at least 408 to 478

2006

• direct civilian deaths: 929

2007

• 1523 - Estimated by UN Assistance Mission Afghanistan (UNAMA)
• 1633 - estimated by Human Rights Watch

2008

• 1800 - estimated by The Afghan Independent Human Rights Commission (AIHRC)
• 2118 - estimated by UNAMA
• 3917 - estimated by The Afghanistan Rights Monitor (ARM) over 6,800 were wounded, and around 120,000 were forced out of their homes.

2009

• 1500 - estimated by (UNAMA) between January 1 and August 31, 2009

That is a total of 9,260 to 9,628. With 1/10th the population of the U.S. this death toll is equal to more than 92,000 Americans, compared to the about 3000 who tragically died on 9/11. When is this revenge going end?

This is not including 2004 for which data is not available. Countless more are dead indirectly. Note that this count does not include combatants from either side, just civilians. Hundreds of thousands were injured, maimed for life and more hundreds of thousand displaced and made homeless.

For crime committed against the bullies of the world (USA), by a handful of Arabic monsters, who were supported by the oppressive and beastly regime that was once supported directly and indirectly (via Saudis), by the U.S. themselves, who have been since ousted, the ordinary Afghans want nothing but to be left alone, must, says Raju, must continue to pay dearly, with their lives, why? because Shri Raju says, "... you will attack innocent citizens of US and then wail over the retaliatory action of US army."

I have not heard anything more vile than this.


Source: Timeline of United States military operations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[KRS]

Folks,

I quit this Forum, because I encountered the following:

1. I did not agree with the owner of this Forum who allowed certain people in to the Forum who, while professing to understand the 'unity' of our tribes, have worked against such unity.

2. While there are folks here that sincerely want to help our community, I see some of the lso called leaders whose aim to assist our community is based on satisfying their own egos.

3. In my opinion, such a motive will not help us unite our community - it will rather destroy it.

4. All the messages written about the 'censorship' on this forum, muzzling certain folks are completely false. Because I quit as a Moderator, such folks are re writing history.

5. By the way, Sri Naachi did not quit because he was 'hounded'. He is a strong person. He quit for the same reason that I quit - and I suspect the same reason that Sowbhagyavathi Chintana quit. Nothing to do with how the members behaved.

6. I am saying all this, because there is no one to refute Professoe Nara's tirade against my country - USA. His whole thesis is wrong. I love him as a TG, but I am sorry that he is a socialist idealogue. I can prove this further, if I wish.

Anyways, this is to tell you all why I quit as a moderator.

Regards,
KRS

 

[RVR]

Welcome back Sri KRS,

As normal human beings, we are bound to have differences of opinion. Both of us had difference of opinion over a particular issue but that doesn't mean that I am against you or you are against me. I respect you very much and I wish, you continue to contribute to this forum as an ordinary member like most of us. I always respect your knowledge and analysis on various subjects.

I am really delighted to see you back in this forum and I am sure you will continue to contribute regularly

I am also having differences of opinion with Prof Nara on certain issues but keeping that aside, I respect him very much.

Personally If I have done anything harmful to the unity of our community, please point out, I don't mind correcting myself and if required I am willing to even tender apology.

All the best

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri RVR Ji,

It has been a great source of personal hurt on my part with my interactions with you, if you allow me to say so.

While I thought that I was trying to safeguard the interests of all our community and had a personal conversation with you, it was painted as me not allowing any 'free speech'.

I am sorry to say that I was quite hurt.

Adding to that was an insult by a person who had no problem with plageurizing, being promoted as a great hero.

Such folks, in the long run do not serve our community well. Where there is smoke, there is always fire. Having been in people evaluation business for long, it seems to me that we as a community do not call a spade a spade.

Anyways, my posting was to strictly to challenge the unsupportable posting about America, and in the process I had to explain why I quit.

By the way, all the best on the Swayamvarams, even though I think that they while are good, do not advance our cause. Just my opinion.

Regards,
KRS

Welcome back Sri KRS,

As normal human beings, we are bound to have differences of opinion. Both of us had difference of opinion over a particular issue but that doesn't mean that I am against you or you are against me. I respect you very much and I wish, you continue to contribute to this forum as an ordinary member like most of us. I always respect your knowledge and analysis on various subjects.

I am really delighted to see you back in this forum and I am sure you will continue to contribute regularly

I am also having differences of opinion with Prof Nara on certain issues but keeping that aside, I respect him very much.

Personally If I have done anything harmful to the unity of our community, please point out, I don't mind correcting myself and if required I am willing to even tender apology.

All the best

 

[RVR]

Thanks Sri KRS ji,

I don't want to reopen the old incident and if I am responsible for hurting you, I feel sorry for that. Please forgive me and forget it also.

I am also fully aware that Swayamvaram is not the only problem affecting our community. There are several problems in front of us. Anyway this is just one issue where we have been successful so far in helping our community in a small way. Even if one couple benefit out of our activity, we should all feel happy. I request you to suggest ways and means to improve it in the future.

Please also suggest other areas where we can do some service to our community and the society.

All the best

 

[anandb]

Welcome back Sri KRS,

As normal human beings, we are bound to have differences of opinion. Both of us had difference of opinion over a particular issue but that doesn't mean that I am against you or you are against me. I respect you very much and I wish, you continue to contribute to this forum as an ordinary member like most of us. I always respect your knowledge and analysis on various subjects.

I am really delighted to see you back in this forum and I am sure you will continue to contribute regularly

I am also having differences of opinion with Prof Nara on certain issues but keeping that aside, I respect him very much.

Personally If I have done anything harmful to the unity of our community, please point out, I don't mind correcting myself and if required I am willing to even tender apology.

All the best

The stance adopted by Shri. RVR is commendable when it comes to discussions on a public forum. As long as there are no personal attacks in discussions everything should be fair game. In fact the opposing view points is what makes this forum alive. I cannot imagine everyone to concur on everything then it would become a dull and boring world. When I feel so I desist from posting for some time or avoid getting into arguments with certain individuals where the discussion goes into a cracked gramophone record mode but I don't find anything wrong with these individuals as such. It is just that they are arguing it out forcefully. Personally I hate bracketing people into left wing, right wing and many other ideologues created by ourselves. The problem is it creates division in our minds and brands that person. Branding of products should not be extended into branding of human beings. What I feel is unless someone is indulging in விதண்டாவாதம் or குதர்கவாதம் where the person wants to oppose just for the sake of it, we normally find ourselves siding or not siding a person on multiple issues.

Anyway, Shri. KRS, you should be in this forum for the sake of having intelligent discussions.

Thanks

 

[Raghy]

Sri.KRS said:-

"6. I am saying all this, because there is no one to refute Professoe Nara's tirade against my country - USA. His whole thesis is wrong. I love him as a TG, but I am sorry that he is a socialist idealogue. I can prove this further, if I wish."

Sri.Krs, I am very surprised to read these words from you. Sri.Nara is just presenting a debate; that's all. Why do you decide that there is no one to refute Sri.Nara's statements? Why do say those statements are against USA in the first place? There is something called 'US foreign policy' which does not reflect any normal US citizen's views. Leave alone Sri.Nara writing them in this forum, I have discussed some of the points with US citizens personally.

Sri.Nara has shown some of the views about US foreign policies; if I were you, I will engage in a conversation with Sri.Nara to reiterate my point of views and the flaws in his point of views. (once I had a discussion with a US politician, local level politician, I suppose. We thrashed out so many points).

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

..... I cannot imagine everyone to concur on everything then it would become a dull and boring world.

[..]

Personally I hate bracketing people into left wing, right wing and many other ideologues created by ourselves

Dear Anand, I cannot agree with this more .

Spirited debate brings more traffic and that is what makes a web forum successful. Without a fly in the ointment like me this forum will become a mutual admiration society. Also, only when we argue we get an opportunity to do some research and learn.

It is easy to label people as this or that. Once the caricature is complete, the demonizing can begin. I personally try to stay away from debating with such people.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

KRS,

it makes all sorts of vegetables to make forum அவியல் a delectable dish. consider yourself as one of the ingredients. for arguements sake, let you be முருங்கக்காய்.

அவியல் without முருங்கக்காய், is ok, but not the same.

your inbox is full. whenever you are able to, please do the needful cleaning up.

thanks.

 

[anandb]

Dear Anand, I cannot agree with this more .

Spirited debate brings more traffic and that is what makes a web forum successful. Without a fly in the ointment like me this forum will become a mutual admiration society. Also, only when we argue we get an opportunity to do some research and learn.

It is easy to label people as this or that. Once the caricature is complete, the demonizing can begin. I personally try to stay away from debating with such people.

Cheers!

. Sri. Nara, the one issue on which I do agree with you is your views on USA and its policies. I used to admire this country once where i studied for a couple of years but not anymore. I think the average Americans are good people and leagues ahead of the average Brit (I have a fair number of Brit colleagues) but what seems to be rotten is their political system. To me all the American presidents seem to be caught up in a corrupt cabal of financial, political and corporate entities that the entire American policy making (previously foreign but now domestic as well) is sounding to start sinister to me. Or perhaps I read too much of Robert Ludlum. While the Indian political system seems to be going from bad to worse, I feel their American friends starting with George Bush Sr. especially are not lagging too far behind.

But as we say life is a cycle and not linear . What goes up comes down some time. It has been proved time and again whether it is individuals, corporates or countries.

 

[KRS]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

Your posting about America and her policies is bot based on truth.

1. America supported right wing dictatorships around the world in the past, because almost all these countries would have been controlled by communists and/or socialists with proxy power to the Soviet Union. Most of these countries, even today do not have any democracy. Without the American support, these countries would have b controlled by the leftist dictatorships.

2. Haiti, unfortunately, is ruled by leaders who, by tradition, like India, have not had any concerns for the well being of her own citizens. Nothing to do with USA, who have been giving billions in aid.

3, It has become customary for the left to equate exertion of military power by some capitalist/democratic countries with the nrute power exerted by the likes of Soviet Union. Such obfuscation is expected. Show me one country which USA has forcefully annexed against the wishes of that country's people, unlike the Soviet Union or the past fascist countries like Germany, Italy or Japan. Military force can and should be used against the evil principles of communism.

4. Japan was bombed with the atom bomb, exactly because of what you said - they did not know they were defeated and carried on because of a misplaced value on self pride. History shows that the USA did try their best to entreat them to stop fighting.

5. Israel has every right to treat the GUEST palestinian workers any way they want, given the reality there. Do you want to discuss the status of the so called Palestinians and the hypocrisy of the policies of the most countries against Israel? Let us not forget that Israel is a vibrant democract, with political voices that support the Muslim 'Palestinians' POV who are CITIZENS in that country.

Sir, your fascination with the leftist ideology and propaganda astonishes me, considering your independent thinking. Countless atrocities and murders have taken place around the world in the name of this ideology.

Regards,
KRS

 

[KRS]

I have cleaned up my inbox.

Regards,
KRS

KRS,

it makes all sorts of vegetables to make forum அவியல் a delectable dish. consider yourself as one of the ingredients. for arguements sake, let you be முருங்கக்காய்.

அவியல் without முருங்கக்காய், is ok, but not the same.

your inbox is full. whenever you are able to, please do the needful cleaning up.

thanks.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Raghy Ji,

Just because I value and appreciate Prof. Nara Ji, I have responded. He has right to his views and it is also my right to refute them, from my POV.

It is a common mis conception, held all over the world that the US Governmant's view is different from the citizens'. Nothing can be farther from the truth. When someone makes this assertion, they probably talk about the liberal views held by a small minority of the population, who are the loudest in expressing their views.

Regards,
KRS

Sri.KRS said:-

"6. I am saying all this, because there is no one to refute Professoe Nara's tirade against my country - USA. His whole thesis is wrong. I love him as a TG, but I am sorry that he is a socialist idealogue. I can prove this further, if I wish."

Sri.Krs, I am very surprised to read these words from you. Sri.Nara is just presenting a debate; that's all. Why do you decide that there is no one to refute Sri.Nara's statements? Why do say those statements are against USA in the first place? There is something called 'US foreign policy' which does not reflect any normal US citizen's views. Leave alone Sri.Nara writing them in this forum, I have discussed some of the points with US citizens personally.

Sri.Nara has shown some of the views about US foreign policies; if I were you, I will engage in a conversation with Sri.Nara to reiterate my point of views and the flaws in his point of views. (once I had a discussion with a US politician, local level politician, I suppose. We thrashed out so many points).

Cheers!

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

I have cleaned up my inbox.
I have cleaned up my inbox.

Regards,
KRS

Originally Posted by kunjuppu
KRS,

it makes all sorts of vegetables to make forum அவியல் a delectable dish. consider yourself as one of the ingredients. for arguements sake, let you be முருங்கக்காய்.

அவியல் without முருங்கக்காய், is ok, but not the same.

your inbox is full. whenever you are able to, please do the needful cleaning up.

thanks.

Regards,
KRS

"Drums of War" or 'Drumsticks of War" ?

Welcome Sri KRS after a gap.

Greetings

 

[Nara]

I am sorry that he is a socialist idealogue

Sir, your fascination with the leftist ideology and propaganda astonishes me

Dear Shri KRS, I welcome you back and I will post a response. But don't expect me to continue the discussion if you are going to take such potshots as above. It is not going to take long for me to just change a few words and turn it against you, as follows:

I am sorry that he is a captalist idealogue

Sir, your fascination with the conservative ideology and propaganda astonishes me
​

Here is a similar exchange you had with the infamous s007bala:

KRS:
Please stop reading all this leftist garbage and without any original thought post them. I have clearly proved that Rush is not a 'racist'.

s007bala:
Please stop reading all this rightist garbage and without any original thought post them.I have clearly proved too, Rush is a rascist.

I have no desire for such pointless exchanges. If we are going to just throw opinions sans any evidence, then there is no point. You can call me socialist ideologue all you want, it won't get us anywhere.

I welcome spirited debate where points are well made. But if pointless personal epithets is part of your debating arsenal, then please count me out.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri Raghy Ji,

It is a common mis conception, held all over the world that the US Governmant's view is different from the citizens'. Nothing can be farther from the truth. When someone makes this assertion, they probably talk about the liberal views held by a small minority of the population, who are the loudest in expressing their views.

Regards,
KRS

Sri.KRS,

With due respect to your assertions/opinions, I was mentioning about 'foreign policies' only. An average citizen do not get to know about USA's policy about a certain country only after a long time after the policy was implemented. Only when the plocies become declassified, regular citizens get to access them; leave alone the said American may not locate the country in question on the world map, in most cases the policy may not make sense at all. Actually I can think of few, myself. For example, USA is the only western country ever to have declared war against India (in 1971). Most Americans may not even know that. But, I have nothing against Americans or America.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

Dear KRS, Greetings!

I would like to preface my comments by first pointing out that I did not go off on a tirade against USA just on a whim. I was only responding to Sri Raju, who made, IMO, a particularly vile comment. USA is my country too. My wife and I take part in its affairs regularly, as a member of the local community, like any good citizen. In this context I believe jingoism is not patriotism.

Secondly, I know where you stand and therefore do not expect you to agree with me. At the same time, I would like to emphasize that I have some gray matter inside my head, may be not as much as what is outside, to be swayed by what you call "leftist ideology and propaganda".

All I am going to do now is to show that my observations are not just regurgitated propaganda, but based on some solid evidence.

1. America supported right wing dictatorships around the world in the past, [....] Without the American support, these countries would have b controlled by the leftist dictatorships.

I suppose you have conceded my point that USA supported military dictatorships that brutally suppressed the masses. Leaving that aside, about 100 years before USSR came into existence, U.S. President Monroe USA declared Latin America to be the exclusive domain of U.S. This later came to be known as the Manroe Doctrine.

This horrendous doctrine, in concert with the concept of manifest destiny, has caused death, misery and poverty for millions of Latin Americans long before Lenin was even born.

The post World War II rivalry between the two superpowers only gave USA an additional reason to suppress the aspirations of common people. This is not leftist propaganda. Look it up.

2. Haiti, .... Nothing to do with USA, who have been giving billions in aid.

This comment seems to suggest you are unaware of the Haitian history. Even if you are aware, let me briefly recount the history for other members. All of this can be easily verified if you care.

The slaves of Haiti rose up against the French and threw them out, and formed a republic in 1804, second only to the U.S. in this neck of the woods. The European powers of the day and USA laid a naval blockade and extracted onerous reparations, illegal even at that time, from the newly formed republic, which they had to borrow from the European bankers to pay. In today's money it is $21 Billion with a B. It took them more than 120 years to pay it off in 1947. I don't know how much this 21 Billion will be today if you include interest. Instead of patting themselves on their backs for the millions they dole out, they must first start with making good on the exotrtion money they look.

Next, early in the 20th century, USA invaded Haiti and occupied the country from 1915 to 1934. Here is what US State Department web site says about US's interest in Haiti.

As a potential naval base for the United States and other imperialist powers, Haiti's stability was of great interest to U.S. diplomatic and defense officials who feared instability might result in foreign rule of Haiti. In 1868, President Andrew Johnson suggested the annexation of the island of Hispaniola, made up of Haiti and the Dominican Republic, to secure a U.S. defensive and economic stake in the West Indies.
​

This, is from the State Department, not some left-wing, communist-loving, freedom-hating, lowlife website. The sordid history of US intervention in Haiti continued with its unwavering support of brutal and kleptocratic despot Papa Doc and Baby Doc Duvalier who ran up huge debts and stole hundreds of millions of dollars from the impoverished nation. None of this, of course, bothered USA, as long as they were stopping communism from Cuba.

When Aristide, duly elected by popular vote, wanted to improve the lot of the common people, USA came in and orchestrated a coup. They even vilified Aristide as a mad man. After a year or so, Clinton brought him back, but imposed crippling economic conditions in return that made life even more stark. So, the legacy of USA in Haiti is not a pretty one. For more see this article from the Independent.

3. ... Show me one country which USA has forcefully annexed against the wishes of that country's people

Well, when you say "annexed" you are putting a big caveat. But if you talk about brutal military intervention there is plenty, just Google US Military interventions. No other country comes even close. They now have global reach. Where they are not directly controlling they have their proxies doing their bidding.

4. Japan was bombed with the atom bomb, .... History shows that the USA did try their best to entreat them to stop fighting.

This is a complete myth. The Japanese were ready to surrender after the Potsdam Conference in 1945. See this article from Los Angeles Times. The millions of lives saved narrative is just completely made up. Read this article from Boston Review. An excerpt:

In July a US Strategic Bombing Survey report concluded that Japan would have surrendered by November 1945 even if the bombs had not been used and Russia had not entered the war.
​

Further, dropping the a-bomb on heavily populated city without any warning, is as immoral as it can get. On that one count alone USA is guilty of horrific war crime. But victors get to decide the moral imperatives.

5. Israel has every right to treat the GUEST palestinian workers any way they want, given the reality there.

Even a brief look at the map of the Israeli checkpoints will dissuade you of this fantasy. Here is a map of Israeli checkpoints. Also, read this NY Times article.

Alright, I have shown here that my view is not made out of thin cloth. For every reference I have provided here, there are hundreds that I have not cited for reasons of volume. I am not expecting you to agree with me, and that does not worry me. But stop saying I am this or that or anything else.

Thanks...

 

[RVR]

Left and Right

When we discuss about Left and Right, it reminds me of the conversation between Right Honorable Srinivasa Sastry and Left Comrade Baladandayutham

Right Honorable Srinivasa Sastry was considered as the ` Silver-Tongued Orator of the British Empire' in the English Language

V. S. Srinivasa Sastri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Comrade Baladandayutham is an excellent public speaker of Communist Party of India

Srinivasa Sastry was teaching in Annamalai University and Baladandayutham was his student.


Once Sastry told Bala to keep his `Left' ideologies within himself and don't bring it to the university premises.

Pat reply came from Bala `Sastry Sir, You are neither Right nor Honorable'.

Let us not talk about left or right here and let us all talk `Straight'

All the best

 

[RVR]

American economy

I think there is lot of confusion about the next American Budget

Please read the following article in business week

Obama?s $6.3 Trillion Scam Is America?s Shame: Jonathan Weil - BusinessWeek

America should concentrate on their internal economies first and cannot afford a war at this stage.

All the best

 

[KRS]

Dear Professor Nara Ji,

My charectrization of your ideas came directly from your admission that you admire Communist/Socialist ideology/philosophy. I did not mean any harm - I was just establishing a context.

Now knowing your sensitivity towards calling your ideas with any labels, I offer my unconditional apology and give you my word that I will not use such labels going forward.

My response is in 'blue' below"

Dear Shri KRS, I welcome you back and I will post a response. But don't expect me to continue the discussion if you are going to take such potshots as above. It is not going to take long for me to just change a few words and turn it against you, as follows:

I am sorry that he is a captalist idealogue

Sir, your fascination with the conservative ideology and propaganda astonishes me
​

If you want my ideas to have such a label, I have to agree. Because I happen to think that Capitalism properly regulated by a democratically elected government is the best system we have as human beings to create wealth and in the long term produce a peaceful world. I have no problem personally if you use the proclivity of my philosophical position to call me a right winger.

Here is a similar exchange you had with the infamous s007bala:

KRS:
Please stop reading all this leftist garbage and without any original thought post them. I have clearly proved that Rush is not a 'racist'.

s007bala:
Please stop reading all this rightist garbage and without any original thought post them.I have clearly proved too, Rush is a rascist.

I have no desire for such pointless exchanges. If we are going to just throw opinions sans any evidence, then there is no point. You can call me socialist ideologue all you want, it won't get us anywhere.

Again, I did not say it to be hurtful. By the way, it is good for you to quote the above exchange between myself and sri bala007 Ji. Perhaps, it would be good to quote the entire progression of this dialog (by the way I am not a particular admirer of Rush Limbaugh and I do not listen to his program very often). Sri bala was incorrigible and sometimes it produced conversations like above.

As I said, I apologize - different folks have different thresholds of sensitivity, as we have discovered in our own conversations some time back.

I welcome spirited debate where points are well made. But if pointless personal epithets is part of your debating arsenal, then please count me out.

Fair enough, now that I know what you consider as 'personal epithet'.

Cheers!

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Raghy Ji,

Foreign policy has been and is and will play a major role in American politics, perhaps more than it's share in other countries. VFW, the Foreign policy forum and other academic programs try to influence the American foreign policies and you would be surprised to learn that how some Americans even in the so called 'hinterlands' understand the complexities of the foreign relations. For Senate elections and the Presidential election, foreign policy is, often times a very decisive factor.

By the way, I did not know that the US had 'declared war' against India in 1971. Richard Nixon at that time was trying to discourage the Bangladesh split off from Pakistan (Indira Gandhi had the support of Soviet Union then, with the cold war in full freezing blast) and he positioned an aircraft carrier in Bay of Bengal in a threatening way. Other than this act, I do not remember the US declaring any actual war against India. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards,
KRS

Sri.KRS,

With due respect to your assertions/opinions, I was mentioning about 'foreign policies' only. An average citizen do not get to know about USA's policy about a certain country only after a long time after the policy was implemented. Only when the plocies become declassified, regular citizens get to access them; leave alone the said American may not locate the country in question on the world map, in most cases the policy may not make sense at all. Actually I can think of few, myself. For example, USA is the only western country ever to have declared war against India (in 1971). Most Americans may not even know that. But, I have nothing against Americans or America.

Cheers!