Drums of war

[RVR]

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U S Health care system

I am really shocked to hear the following news item.

The Hindu : Health : Obama admits US health care overhaul may fall through

Recently Tamilnadu has introduced a scheme to cover health cover for all poor and downtrodden under `Kalaignar Kaapitu Thittam'.

The Hindu : Tamil Nadu News : Insurance scheme: schedule for taking photos

When India is moving forward in the social security front, it is sad to know that US health care system is collapsing.

Let USA not think of war and concentrate on internal economy.

All the best

 

[Nara]

....

When India is moving forward in the social security front, it is sad to know that US health care system is collapsing.

Dear RVR sir,

If `Kalaignar Kaapitu Thittam' is properly administered and the poor are benefited then the scheme is to be applauded.

Please permit me to describe what we have here in the U.S.

Obama is now trying to enact quality universal health insurance for ALL that is affordable. The primary beneficiaries are working middle-class.

Way back in the 1930s FDR introduced social security program by which ALL working Americans can have a secure income during retirement. Later LBJ expanded affordable medical insurance for ALL people over 65, called Medicare. Federal government also subsidizes a program called Medicaid by which poor people are given FREE medical care.

There is also Supplemental Social Security Income (SSI) by which poor seniors and other disabled or otherwise unable to work people receive monthly payments for subsitance and rent in addition to food stamp for food. Food stamp is given in the form of a card that looks like a credit card so that when they use it they need not feel any stigma for being on food stamp.

Many Indian families bring their parents who become citizens after 5 years and start drawing all these benefits even though they have not contributed a dime to the system.

Cheers!

 

[RVR]

Prof Nara Sir,

Kalaigner Kaapitu Thittam is OK on paper. But they have awarded the medical insurance policies to a little known `Star Insurance company'. It is to be seen whether the Insurance company discharges the claims in the future without any hassles.

Probably they could award the insurance contract to a public sector insurance company (there are four such companies in India) which are capable of discharging the claims properly.

National Rural Employment Guarantee Scheme (NRGES) is a worthwhile scheme adopted by Government of India where all the rural landless labour are guaranteed 100 days of work every year at Rs.80 per day. Again it is implemented at panchayat level and corruption is going on at some places. Rahul Gandhi is trying to give Unique Identity Cards (Bio metric card) to every body and is trying to transfer the funds to beneficiaries directly to their post office savings accounts by passing government officials.

Let us hope for better implementation of both the schemes in future so that the poor and downtrodden enjoy the benefits fully.

All the best

 

[Nara]

.....
My charectrization of your ideas came directly from your admission that you admire Communist/Socialist ideology/philosophy. I did not mean any harm - I was just establishing a context.

Dear Shri KRS:

Here is the exchange you are referring to.

I was only responding to your query which was clearly an attempt at branding. I did not "admit" to anything and I don't have anything to admit to.

Calling someone "socialist ideologue" is never meant as a complement, or for that matter, not even meant in a neutral way to establish any kind of context. The only context it tries to establish is to prejudge whatever the person is going to say, through the "socialist" or "capitalist" caricature, which serves no legitimate purpose.

Further, there are as many terms of caricature for the people who seem to favor free market capitalism and corporatism. If I also start using such caricature to set the "context", we will only be throwing brickbats at each other.

This has nothing do with sensitivities, and all to do with practical civility so that an attempt at productive exchange can be made. Let us stick to the points and forget about labels.

That said, I appreciate your response. I too express my regret for being a bit too harsh. Hope there are no hard feelings.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.KRS Sir,

"...you would be surprised to learn that how some Americans even in the so called 'hinterlands' understand the complexities of the foreign relations. For Senate elections and the Presidential election, foreign policy is, often times a very decisive factor."

Sir, I agree with your assertions. The public knew about the foreign policies. But they are not quite aware of the way those foreign policies are implemented. For example, only after decades, now Americans are wondering about the aid and support they are offering to Pakistan out of their tax. It takes a very long time for a common man to make an impact on such policies.

"By the way, I did not know that the US had 'declared war' against India in 1971."

Sir, Pakistan declared war against India through pre-emptive attack in December, 1971. Pakistan did that because it was assured of material and strategic assisstance by the USA. In that context, positioning USS Enterprises in Bay of Bengal in a threatening intention, within missile striking distance in support of the aggressor, namely Pakistan would be considered as an act of war. USA did not strike India only because USSR had her nuclear submarine, moved from Vladivostok, in support of India.

Indo-Pakistani War of 1971 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Sir, India condemned a genocide (about 2.5 million public were killed. over 250,000 were raped. One woman said 'raping and killing would be an act of mercy compared to what I went through'. I have not provided the reference- but, I can get them from Bangaladeshi forums. Reams of references). Sir, unfortunately USA stood by this genocide; are you going to say US citizens approved this?

Sir, this is my last post on this topic, please (in our discussion. Not in the thread though). I understand your sensitivity about your country. Honestly I do not like to trample upon them. Since you asked about the 1971 situation, I wrote as minimum as possible. You may read more from more and more pages that would open from the link.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

re

Many Indian families bring their parents who become citizens after 5 years and start drawing all these benefits even though they have not contributed a dime to the system.

Nara,

while what you write maybe true to some degree,the flipside of immigration control,is the H1 B Visa system.In this system of allocation of visa,US goverment thereby US citizens have gained immensely,from tax paying Indians,Chinese.Indians are only second to Chinese,to utilise this visa program.Social Security Tax is deducted from the salary,so is health,dental,vision.Once a employer ceases the requirement of an individual,automatically,the person returns to home country.But the social security tax,health,dental,vision,payroll tax..are NEVER REFUNDED.This money collected goes to the kitty of US treasury.Which is a good thing as far as America is concerned.

I applaud Americans for their innovative schemes,to make life comfortable as much as possible for every of its citizens.I truly wish Indians have such similiar schemes,to jumpstart the comforts of Indians in all walks of life.

To Raghy:

Raghy,when i read the reply to KRS by you,it does make sense from your point of view.But the reality today is in 2010,our Indian political leaders as well as American political leaders,are forging with unity,in thought speech and action,in a concerted manner,so as to make Indian & American lives,more comfortable,peaceful and in harmony with each other.

War is a neccessary evil,to protect dharma.Wherever the Lord is,the winner will be established sooner than later.Let us see,if the Lord is satisfied with bhakthis of various religions existing in the world and its practioners.

nachi naga.

 

[kunjuppu]

nachi,

to the best of my knowledge, the u.s. citizen has it bad when it comes to healthcare. it is expensive.

those who are employed, get a 80% maximum refund. that too with hefty deductibles per year. i was told these to be around $5000 or less.

then there is a cap on the total spend. so, if one has a disease like cancer, which takes about $200,000 total treatment, many insurance companies might tell you that the cap was $150,000 or so and refuse to pay the remnants.

i have a friend who is being treated at henderson hospital houston, supposed to be the best for cancer treatments. his total expense over a period of 18 months is $200,000. he has what is called the platinum coverage. yet his out of pocket expense is $50,000.

people, who don't have jobs in the u.s. do not have health insurance. so, just like in india, they go spend their savings, sell valuables, mortgage or sell their house, for the treatments. then declare bankruptcy.

there is another way to get treatment. that is to go to any hospital emergency department. so what happens? poor people, who cannot afford early or preventive treatment, wait till the critically ill period, and admit themselves in the emergency. by law these cannot be driven away, and so the hospital treats them, and passes on these bills to the fee paying regular customers.

people in canada, who have had government funded health care, find the u.s. system wacky and unfair to the vast majority of its citizens. unfortunately, the medica profession, the hospitals, the drug companies, are all profit oriented (just like india) and have successfully railroaded any reforms.

add to it, they have used their money, to spread false propaganda and lies about canadian & european health care systems, chosing selectively some disgruntled folks here, and quoting them widely in the u.s. media. any canadian will agree, that we do not have a perfect system, but we are light years ahead of the u.s. and no canadian politican dare tamper our system for reducing any benefits.

ofcourse, KRS has disagreed with me before on this. but i find it surprising, that many indians, in the u.s., who are comfortably off, appear to have the same view. very very surprising indeed.

thank you.

ps.. hope there is no lingering ill feelings from the past

 

[nachi naga]

re

"hope there is no lingering ill feelings from the past "

Kunjuppu,i carry only goodwill of all even if i am mis-understood via my writings.

nachi naga.

 

[tbs]

Nara,

while what you write maybe true to some degree,the flipside of immigration control,is the H1 B Visa system.In this system of allocation of visa,US goverment thereby US citizens have gained immensely,from tax paying Indians,Chinese.Indians are only second to Chinese,to utilise this visa program.Social Security Tax is deducted from the salary,so is health,dental,vision.Once a employer ceases the requirement of an individual,automatically,the person returns to home country.But the social security tax,health,dental,vision,payroll tax..are NEVER REFUNDED.This money collected goes to the kitty of US treasury.Which is a good thing as far as America is concerned.

Dear nachi naga sir,
you are rite....HI B visa money collected through taxes never returned..
i heard as many as 20,000 H1 B visa holders not getting any social
security/medicare benefits..in fact they contribute to social security/
medicaid...may be good thing for America....

regards
tbs

 

[nachi naga]

re

Nara,

I think by Sanathana Dharmam you mean Vedic Brahminism. If this is what you mean, then, Nachi Naga, you are proving my point. All religions claim ownership of the absolute truth based on nothing but age old tradition and faith. Why is your Brahminism any more true than what the Christians claim to be the truth. Because they are only 2010 years old?
Astrology is one of the six angas of the supposedly timeless Vedas, and yet it claims rather foolishly that sun and rahu & kethu are planets circling around the earth. How true it that?
Further, the vedas go on and on about inane things, like for example the life of some love crazed man getting played like putty. It talks about various rituals that are supposed to provide tangible benefits, none of which is true. Why should such a document be accepted as eternal truth? Sorry, makes no sense!!.

I mean Sanathanam Dharmam exactly what it means to the tee.Its not Vedic Brahmanism.There is no owner ship claimed at all,in fact Vedas are apoureshyam not human made origin.
Please show me a verse or verses in context,wherein Vedanga Jyotisham claims,that Sun is going around the earth or for that matter Rahu & Kethu do too.Rig Veda in one its verse says,Sun never rises nor sets,is this verse which is confounding you?
Rahu & Kethu are Moon's north and south nodes termed as chaaya grahams or shadowy points of grasp in a human life.Science are proving how important Sun rays or sunlight are an important effect to life forms and the reflected moons rays from the sun,an important effect in night life of plants,herbs,mind.Full Moon produces an high tide,in normal conditions,based on the phases of the moon and sailors used to navigate their ships in ancient period.
Vedas may not make sense to you,but to me and others like me,so do some of your writings relate the very same attitude.But then each has his/her views,isn't it?Sorry,we disagree,then we agree on our disagreement.Let's leave it at that.

Well, yes, it took a Newton to develop mathematical formulations that explained gravitational forces interacting among the heavenly bodies. But it was not something completely beyond the human comprehension. Gravity was seen and used by humans long before Newton came along. Gravity at least was kind enough to show itself even to the least of us in a way that all life forms used it for its own benefit. But your god is quote another story.

Sanskrit verses explain things in a sookshamam way or subtle way.Only the learned of this subject,can understand it.You are only exposing your inadequacy of a subject,which is way out of your depth and purview of matters to understand,which is understandable by me.You have specialised in some other field of operation and you are gifted in it.I dont understand your sentence about me quoting god,which seems to be another story.Kindly explain,if possible,so that i can relate to what you wish to state.

nachi naga.

 

[Raghy]

Sri Nachi Naga said :-

Raghy,when i read the reply to KRS by you,it does make sense from your point of view.But the reality today is in 2010,our Indian political leaders as well as American political leaders,are forging with unity,in thought speech and action,in a concerted manner,so as to make Indian & American lives,more comfortable,peaceful and in harmony with each other.

Sri Nachi Naga,

If you think Pakistan is going to 'forget' or 'forgive' the pummeling they received in 1971, you are dreaming. All along USA knows very well that a large portion of the money they pour into Pakistan is used to either build arms to attack India or to conduct terror activities in India. But, Pakistan is the 'closest friend' for USA. Mate, India has a reason to proceed very cautiously.

War is a neccessary evil,to protect dharma.Wherever the Lord is,the winner will be established sooner than later.Let us see,if the Lord is satisfied with bhakthis of various religions existing in the world and its practioners.

Sri Nachi Naga,

What dharma? War is not a necessary evil at all. Most often than not, wars are created to sell arms; just for business purposes. The 8 years war between Iran and Iraq was a good example. Sorry Sir, I am not convinced about the aims of most wars.

Cheers!

 

[anandb]

Nara,

I mean Sanathanam Dharmam exactly what it means to the tee.Its not Vedic Brahmanism.There is no owner ship claimed at all,in fact Vedas are apoureshyam not human made origin.
Please show me a verse or verses in context,wherein Vedanga Jyotisham claims,that Sun is going around the earth or for that matter Rahu & Kethu do too.Rig Veda in one its verse says,Sun never rises nor sets,is this verse which is confounding you?
Rahu & Kethu are Moon's north and south nodes termed as chaaya grahams or shadowy points of grasp in a human life.Science are proving how important Sun rays or sunlight are an important effect to life forms and the reflected moons rays from the sun,an important effect in night life of plants,herbs,mind.Full Moon produces an high tide,in normal conditions,based on the phases of the moon and sailors used to navigate their ships in ancient period.
Vedas may not make sense to you,but to me and others like me,so do some of your writings relate the very same attitude.But then each has his/her views,isn't it?Sorry,we disagree,then we agree on our disagreement.Let's leave it at that.

Sanskrit verses explain things in a sookshamam way or subtle way.Only the learned of this subject,can understand it.You are only exposing your inadequacy of a subject,which is way out of your depth and purview of matters to understand,which is understandable by me.You have specialised in some other field of operation and you are gifted in it.I dont understand your sentence about me quoting god,which seems to be another story.Kindly explain,if possible,so that i can relate to what you wish to state.

nachi naga.

Shri. Nara,

If I may intervene, it was Europe till the dark ages who were saying that the Earth was the centre of the Universe and the Sun was going around it. I am quoting certain verses from our Scriptures which said the opposite.

Aitareya Brahmana (3.44) declares:

“The Sun does never set nor rise. When people think the Sun is setting (it is not so). For after having arrived at the end of the day it makes itself produce two opposite effects, making night to what is below and day to what is on the other side…Having reached the end of the night, it makes itself produce two opposite effects, making day to what is below and night to what is on the other side. In fact, the Sun never sets….”

You are ridiculing that our Scriptures are unscientific. Just go through these links to see how much of Science is in our Scriptures.

Tamil Content : kamakoti.org:

Tamil Content : kamakoti.org:

I don't want to reply in detail as I would be deviating from the topic of this thread. May be I will open a new thread with the information I have read.

 

[Nara]

.....
people, who don't have jobs in the u.s. do not have health insurance. so, just like in india, they go spend their savings, sell valuables, mortgage or sell their house, for the treatments. then declare bankruptcy.

I second everything Kunjuppu has said. The west has long recognized that health care is a basic human right, just like education, food, and shelter. If the wealthiest nation in the history of the world cannot provide this, then, shame on them.

The pure free enterprise system has failed to provide this in USA. On the other hand, almost all other western countries have achieved this through government intervention in one form or another. Our ultimate goal is not achieving a free-enterprise Shangri La. The goal is to make the lives of everyone a little better.

The US system is a hodge podge of government and private insurance. If you are poor or over 65, then government takes care of the healthcare in one form or another, thanks to LBJ. But, everyone else is dependent on private sector insurance companies. There are basically three type of insurance.

1. Just plain health insurance that pays 80% of charges after some deductible and there are some maximums.
2. There is what is called PPO, where they pay higher percentage if you go to a provider who is in the approved list, but still have deductibles and copayments, etc.
3. There is what is called HMO (Health Maintenance Organization) that pays 100% except for somewhat nominal copays, but you are allowed to visit only approved providers.

In all three, the insurance companies take your money, but when large claims are made look for ways to get out of the obligations by finding some loophole or some minor discrepancy in the application form. Just as long as you don't get seruiously ill, or if you are rich, the system here in the USA is great.

Now, over the weekend Obama is talking about not walking away from health "insurance" reform. This will make sure everyone can get coverage, not whether it is affordable or not. If it is not affordable, it is no different from not having it at all.

In the greatest democracy the world has seen (sarcasm alert for those who are irony deficient) healthcare can bankrupt you without any notice.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

re

Nara,Kunjuppu

Spot on.I believe UK,Aussies,New Zealanders too have super health care system.But,the beauty is today in India,healthcare is a roaring business for Indians,as this filed has been tapped for outsourcing.Indians are sheer geniuses.Sankara Nethralaya is an outstanding example of vision,heard tales of Dr.Badri working his magic on Mahaswamigal Of Kanchi.Still the MS songs haunt me especially Kanakashaila Viharini Amba....the older generation was truly a divine sorts.

Heard the Chinese are all geared to teach Indians a lesson again in Arunachala Pradesh,TOI reports.I always thot Chinese let us off easily in 1962 war,after a thorough whacking,Panditjis waterloo.Neither USA nor Russia,will be there to help us in our defense against chinese offence.Really worried!

nachi naga.

 

[Nara]

...The public knew about the foreign policies. But they are not quite aware of the way those foreign policies are implemented. For example, only after decades, now Americans are wondering about the aid and support they are offering to Pakistan out of their tax.

Dear Raghy, in spite of all the things that are going on in the world scene nowadays, you would be surprised that most Americans have no idea what Pakistan is, let alone where it is. Most people have an out-sized pride in their country that the politicians routinely exploit, much like in India. All it takes is a TV ad and everyone will just buy into it.

According to the conventional wisdom, the 1988 election was decided by the Willy Horton advertisement, and the 2004 election by the Swift Boat advertisement. What else do you need to show the US electorate is no more savvy than the ones in India.

Cheers!

p.s. Raghy, when you quote text from others, please put the text within "[" and the word "quote" and "]" at the start of the cited text, and [/quote] at the end of the text. This way the quoted text will be clearly displayed and will be easy to read.

 

[Nara]

...Indians are sheer geniuses.

Way to go Nachi, Indians are geniuses .

My wife's nephew suffered from Osteosarcoma when he was only 10 years old. He was treated by a famous Oncologist in Chennai. Their family thinks of him only next to Sriman Narayana.

Recently, the boy, who is now 28, had to undergo a followup procedure to install adjustable prosthesis to take care of the physical growth. The entire team made a mess of it. The poor boy was put under 4 times and it is still not set properly. Yet, the family just can't bring themselves to hold this famous physician responsible. The physician blissfully billed the family for all the mess he and his associates created.

So much for Indian geniuses.

Cheers!

 

[nachi naga]

re

Way to go Nachi, Indians are geniuses .
My wife's nephew suffered from Osteosarcoma when he was only 10 years old. He was treated by a famous Oncologist in Chennai. Their family thinks of him only next to Sriman Narayana.
Recently, the boy, who is now 28, had to undergo a followup procedure to install adjustable prosthesis to take care of the physical growth. The entire team made a mess of it. The poor boy was put under 4 times and it is still not set properly. Yet, the family just can't bring themselves to hold this famous physician responsible. The physician blissfully billed the family for all the mess he and his associates created.
So much for Indian geniuses.
Cheers!

Nara,
your gift of writing ceratinly punctures my baloon time and again.But what to do,like a bitter pill i swallow it.sigh!
American justice is speedy and very effective,unlike Indian judicial system.Law takes such twists and turns,Indians avoid courts like the plague,in my perception.
My sympathies to you and your extended family,hope he recovers well and be healthy and wealthy.
nachi naga.

 

[RVR]

Way to go Nachi, Indians are geniuses .

My wife's nephew suffered from Osteosarcoma when he was only 10 years old. He was treated by a famous Oncologist in Chennai. Their family thinks of him only next to Sriman Narayana.

Recently, the boy, who is now 28, had to undergo a followup procedure to install adjustable prosthesis to take care of the physical growth. The entire team made a mess of it. The poor boy was put under 4 times and it is still not set properly. Yet, the family just can't bring themselves to hold this famous physician responsible. The physician blissfully billed the family for all the mess he and his associates created.

So much for Indian geniuses.

Cheers!

Presently consumer courts in India are very active and deliver justice at a faster rate as compared to regular courts. It is much cheaper also as compared to the regular courts.

Please advice your relatives to approach consumer court immediately.

All the best

 

[anandb]

Nara,Kunjuppu

Spot on.I believe UK,Aussies,New Zealanders too have super health care system.But,the beauty is today in India,healthcare is a roaring business for Indians,as this filed has been tapped for outsourcing.Indians are sheer geniuses.Sankara Nethralaya is an outstanding example of vision,heard tales of Dr.Badri working his magic on Mahaswamigal Of Kanchi.Still the MS songs haunt me especially Kanakashaila Viharini Amba....the older generation was truly a divine sorts.

Heard the Chinese are all geared to teach Indians a lesson again in Arunachala Pradesh,TOI reports.I always thot Chinese let us off easily in 1962 war,after a thorough whacking,Panditjis waterloo.Neither USA nor Russia,will be there to help us in our defense against chinese offence.Really worried!

nachi naga.

I read a story which supposedly took place some time ago. An Indian from the IAS cadre living in Arunachal Pradesh applied for a Chinese Visa. He was told by the Chinese Embassy that he does not need one as he is already in China. Edhu eppadi irukku? I thought even the Chinese have a good sense of humour.

Hu Shih, (1891-1962), Chinese philosopher in Republican China. He was ambassador to the U.S. (1938-42) and chancellor of Peking University (1946-48). He said:

"India conquered and dominated China culturally for two thousand years without ever having to send a single soldier across her border."

Probably the Chinese now think it is "payback" time.

 

[RVR]

India is like to overtake China in growth rates

India to overtake China in 2020: Swaminathan Aiyar - India - The Times of India

Please read the above story

All the best

 

[Nara]

...
Please advice your relatives to approach consumer court immediately.

But they think the doctor is the very avathar of Danvanthri, and that they owe the boy's life to him. No question of even thinking the doctor is at fault, let alone suing...

 

[RVR]

But they think the doctor is the very avathar of Danvanthri, and that they owe the boy's life to him. No question of even thinking the doctor is at fault, let alone suing...

Prof Nara Sir,

Anyway it is their wish which we will not disturb.

Last year I bought a refrigerator and right from day one it started giving problems. I sent complaints to the company and their mechanics came several times to repair it without any success. Finally I gave a notice that I am going to consumer court for compensation with damages. Promptly they replaced it with a brand new one.

வாய் உள்ள பிள்ளை பிழைத்துகொள்ளும்

The new refrigerator seems to be OK as of now.

All the best

 

[nachi naga]

All along use only American collabaration products.Absolutely peace of mind.No wonder Dr.Pratap Reddy is so successful with Apollo.

nachi naga.

 

[nachi naga]

re

I read a story which supposedly took place some time ago. An Indian from the IAS cadre living in Arunachal Pradesh applied for a Chinese Visa. He was told by the Chinese Embassy that he does not need one as he is already in China. Edhu eppadi irukku? I thought even the Chinese have a good sense of humour.

Hu Shih, (1891-1962), Chinese philosopher in Republican China. He was ambassador to the U.S. (1938-42) and chancellor of Peking University (1946-48). He said:

"India conquered and dominated China culturally for two thousand years without ever having to send a single soldier across her border."

Probably the Chinese now think it is "payback" time.

anand,

i always suspected that what Mahaswamigal said is 100% correct,that the only religion existed millions of years back was sanathanam dharmam.And it was payback time,that Islamic,Christians,now Chinese are gearing to do.I am positive the Chinese are upto no-good,just feel it in my bones.

All the nuclear fissile material,design was passed on to Pakistan by Chinese with active help from christians.Other communities just want to kill hindus and hinduism,that seems to be the aim of these other communities.Hatred will ultimately kill them,just as we are witnessing events in Pakistan.Really sad.

nachi naga.

 

[amala]

Nara mama I'm truly very sorry to hear about your nephew, but please consider that this doctors is human and to err is human. He got it wrong this time. Don't we all at some time or another however specialised we are/think we may be?. I'm not defending him just pointing out that even the best of doctors get it wrong....sometimes.