God Exists

[ShivKC]

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i would not want my children to grow up in an atheist way, because of the following points which atheism fails to give me a convincing an answer. still awaiting!

1) purpose in life
2) concept of performing atonement from one's wrongdoing (Prayaschittha), and asking for forgiveness there by getting correcting the life track.

murphys management law says 'left to themselves, things will go from bad to worse'. this is what happens if we think, we are a part of evolution, next only to animal kingdom, and are free to live the way we want, as per our mutated selfish genes guides so.

but for a theist children, there is a guidance, and has a purpose to lead a good life and look out for being 'oneness with god'. that motivates them to do good and stay away from doing wrong, or win over other weak by all means, and justify with, survival of the fittest. one can over power a weak women in dark, silence her to stay away from seeking justice, and still lead a life without guilt. they cant tell their children' boy dont hide things from me, god is watching you'.

but for theists,karma fears them not to do bad. even if one did wrong, prayschitta helps the person pointing its wrong, and try not to do it again, and keep on pricking the conscience , and fear of karma, triggers him not to do wrong .. theism gives a purpose in life, set the goal for life to strive moksha, and give an ultimate goal/target for life and life after death. but for an atheist no such purpose exists...its like,
'"common my child, lets be strong, earn, eat, drink, and be merry,cos tomorrow we may die, and after, nothing is ours".

is it a good precedence?

atheist may argue, there is a selfish gene in every one, and its mutated for years, and in its human form now, it has already developed to do good, and be kind, and triggers selflessness.

but looking around the world, and studying the culture of religious pockets, this trend proves wrong. mutated genes are not giving any universal commonality in the mankind. and these cultural pockets of change, is 3000-5000 yrs recent, and genes would not have mutated to such an drastic change, in such a short span.


if life is to be set by 'survival of fittest', altruism and selflessness wont have any place, even if its argued as 'mutated selfish genes'. (will present a separate post soon)

no predator in the jungle ever survived by altruism. no lion ever had a sympathy and let free a pregnant deer.

these are the dangerous positions, an atheism may drive the society. though many of the atheist here have taken up this ism, only after the grown up and matured age by which they would have earned good judgmental skill to fall in to such situations,.. but, this position will prove disastrous, if it enters the minds of growing children...should any one want their children to take up this position?

 

[Yamaka]

"Turning to atheists, you appear determined not to accept the arguments put forth by the theists. That irritates the theists. You seem to be enjoying that secretly. Your comments are sometimes insensitive to the feelings of the vast majority of the people and that make them feel bad. Periyar called theists as barbaric but the vast majority of the people still continue to be theists. Neither did Periyar achieve anything nor did the theists lose anything. If you realize that, you would not mock at theists.

If the posts in TB forum are any indication, the other side of atheism appears to be supporting all the social taboos like Homosex, Divorce, Visiting temples even when someone has ‘theetu’, etc. If you think you are forward-thinking people in supporting these things, it is fine. Quite interestingly, most of the atheists in this forum are living in the West and their support to these issues is understandable from that perspective. But the atheists must realize that they are dealing with all generations of people (most of them in India) in this forum. While on one hand we must respect the sentiments of the older generation, we also have the responsibility not to misguide the younger generation in the name of ‘modern thinking’." - Haridasa Siva in post #801

Dear Siva:

1. In my mind, Periyar succeeded a lot... he made ordinary people to think the possibility of a Man-made God and the potential exploitation of the innocent people by Theists!

2. I believe now the ranks of "Middle Course" by the so-called "Agno-Theists" are swelling... this is a real success story for Periyar and the Atheists/Agnostics/Naturalists/Reformists/Rationalists... I am positive that the children of these people will turn permanently AWAY from all Man-made Gods and their worship in a few generations.

Modern thinking (the scientific thinking) will be with us for ever... our children WILL be more modern and scientific than us.. that's inexorable... get ready to accept the humongous changes coming on our way... our children will NEVER put up with old superstitious assumptions and discrimination in the Society... Everyone's Civil Liberty will be protected whether we like it or not.

3. Siva, the best argument that Theists in this Forum make is "Why Atheists come to this TB Forum?,,, Why they not start their own Forum etc?

My answer is Why NOT... what are THEY afraid of?

Again, I totally reject the underlying assumption that Atheists are anti-Brahmins and they hate Brahmins.... I believe that most of the Brahmins are intellectuals and they analyze ALL issues to the core...including the possibility of God and NO God...

Where's the problem?

I believe we are on the right track.

Wait & watch.

Peace.

 

[DrBarani]

Good News for Believers! If any atheist asks you "Prove me God Exists" all you need to tell him is

"Why NOT? What are you Afraid of?"

and that should do! Congratulations theists, you won the debate!

 

[subbudu1]

i would not want my children to grow up in an atheist way, because of the following points which atheism fails to give me a convincing an answer. still awaiting!

1) purpose in life
2) concept of performing atonement from one's wrongdoing (Prayaschittha), and asking for forgiveness there by getting correcting the life track.

murphys management law says 'left to themselves, things will go from bad to worse'. this is what happens if we think, we are a part of evolution, next only to animal kingdom, and are free to live the way we want, as per our mutated selfish genes guides so.

but for a theist children, there is a guidance, and has a purpose to lead a good life and look out for being 'oneness with god'. that motivates them to do good and stay away from doing wrong, or win over other weak by all means, and justify with, survival of the fittest. one can over power a weak women in dark, silence her to stay away from seeking justice, and still lead a life without guilt. they cant tell their children' boy dont hide things from me, god is watching you'.

but for theists,karma fears them not to do bad. even if one did wrong, prayschitta helps the person pointing its wrong, and try not to do it again, and keep on pricking the conscience , and fear of karma, triggers him not to do wrong .. theism gives a purpose in life, set the goal for life to strive moksha, and give an ultimate goal/target for life and life after death. but for an atheist no such purpose exists...its like,
'"common my child, lets be strong, earn, eat, drink, and be merry,cos tomorrow we may die, and after, nothing is ours".

is it a good precedence?

atheist may argue, there is a selfish gene in every one, and its mutated for years, and in its human form now, it has already developed to do good, and be kind, and triggers selflessness.

but looking around the world, and studying the culture of religious pockets, this trend proves wrong. mutated genes are not giving any universal commonality in the mankind. and these cultural pockets of change, is 3000-5000 yrs recent, and genes would not have mutated to such an drastic change, in such a short span.


if life is to be set by 'survival of fittest', altruism and selflessness wont have any place, even if its argued as 'mutated selfish genes'. (will present a separate post soon)

no predator in the jungle ever survived by altruism. no lion ever had a sympathy and let free a pregnant deer.

these are the dangerous positions, an atheism may drive the society. though many of the atheist here have taken up this ism, only after the grown up and matured age by which they would have earned good judgmental skill to fall in to such situations,.. but, this position will prove disastrous, if it enters the minds of growing children...should any one want their children to take up this position?

Children learn from their friends and elders. Their habits and of course their own nature. Gora was an atheist brahmin. His son was an excellant person and was not only an atheist but did service to humanity.
Why should you waste time in arguing if god would punish or not? Religion finds strange ways of justification. People who are born in a faith , they can be pardoned by god if they do this. this and this. In other words you can kill in the name of God.

Lot of things are about moral responsibility and how we set an example for the child. Doing something out of fear is no good. It is there that the Government comes in place to enforce rules and create fear, in any case.

Finally we cannot invent somebody to justify a society. Society reached an equilibrium in order to survive and evolve - with or without god

 

[ShivKC]

Children learn from their friends and elders. Their habits and of course their own nature.

Religion finds strange ways of justification. People who are born in a faith , they can be pardoned by god if they do this.

Doing something out of fear is no good. It is there that the Government comes in place to enforce rules and create fear, in any case.

Finally we cannot invent somebody to justify a society. Society reached an equilibrium in order to survive and evolve - with or without god

subbudu sir, if children can only learn from society, then they can choose the convenient society of their bad choice, and justify it too, and without citing either religion OR law of the land, you have no other things to utter a word to the child.

i would not buy your point that, doing is something out of fear is not good. why people afraid of drunken driving. there is a fear about law of the land right!.

but the law of the land has its own drawbacks. some tribes in distant islands, still have the culture of killing the neighbour and take his farm land, and killing other for the show of bravery is still approved in the society. few hundred years ago in tribal lands cannibalism was prevalent, but its not much a recorded one in our Indian literature, because hinduism shaped indians not to resort to such things. this is what i was addressing in the previous post denying genemutation and social influence on morals.

relying on law of land alone, to guide people, atheism has a serious flaw. say suppose, if a child grows up and resort to serial-killing without getting caught by the cops for ever till death. do you have any convincing judicial system to punish this person, other than law of karma. i'm not sure karma/moksha/naraga exists, but this seems to be more a convincing system, than what atheism can give me.

also i have a request: could you please try to respond to the key points i addressed in the previous post, ie,, what is the 'purpose of life' and 'justice for act of debaunchery' according to your atheist view?

 

[subbudu1]

subbudu sir, if children can only learn from society, then they can choose the convenient society of their bad choice, and justify it too, and without citing either religion OR law of the land, you have no other things to utter a word to the child.

i would not buy your point that, doing is something out of fear is not good. why people afraid of drunken driving. there is a fear about law of the land right!.

but the law of the land has its own drawbacks. some tribes in distant islands, still have the culture of killing the neighbour and take his farm land, and killing other for the show of bravery is still approved in the society. few hundred years ago in tribal lands cannibalism was prevalent, but its not much a recorded one in our Indian literature, because hinduism shaped indians not to resort to such things. this is what i was addressing in the previous post denying genemutation and social influence on morals.

relying on law of land alone, to guide people, atheism has a serious flaw. say suppose, if a child grows up and resort to serial-killing without getting caught by the cops for ever till death. do you have any convincing judicial system to punish this person, other than law of karma. i'm not sure karma/moksha/naraga exists, but this seems to be more a convincing system, than what atheism can give me.

also i have a request: could you please try to respond to the key points i addressed in the previous post, ie,, what is the 'purpose of life' and 'justice for act of debaunchery' according to your atheist view?

I will rather add that a bad society produces bad religion. Let us not mince words and we know that religion is misused because either the people behave without control or their upbringing is not good. Same will be true with atheism in place.

It is crystal clear that man came from apes and from other lower form. We know that apes dont have a god. We know that the holy cow also does not believe in god. It proves that survival and evolution happens with ownership of responsibility. Since no animals worship god, only humans invented god at a later stage. Until then humans continued living happily even without god. So for survival god is not a necessity. Even assuming that the concept of a hidden protector was invented for practical purposes, one must think about practical ways of living and a mechanism that will work , instead of inventing lies. As explained god is probably an invention and if so it is time to update the concept of invented. The concept of religion/cult which seems to emerge everytime god is emphasized and this concept causes danger to humans, like we see today.

 

[ShivKC]

subbudu sir, though i enjoyed your post, it is missing the point, what i asked earlier.

1) purpose of life .
2) rendering justice for acts of debaunchery.
3) left to themselves , things will go from bad to worse. should we not need any guidance

let me know if there is any answer in atheism for this. shall we line up our discussion along this. thank u

 

[subbudu1]

subbudu sir, though i enjoyed your post, it is missing the point, what i asked earlier.

1) purpose of life .
2) rendering justice for acts of debaunchery.
3) left to themselves , things will go from bad to worse. should we not need any guidance

let me know if there is any answer in atheism for this. shall we line up our discussion along this. thank u

These definitions were already provided by the Charvakas, the buddhists and the jains. They worked outside the framework of God.
I am sure in the light of modern science newer philosophies and scientific systems will come in place if at all there is a need to.

The evolution from ape to man is irreversible. Man has the intellectual powers that an ape does not have and his behaviour is bound to be more rational excepting for a few waywardly people who would anyway corrupt religion, even if the world were fully theist.

I dont know why you keep stressing such words like debaunchery. Rational people will live moderately irrational people will live immoderately.
Yesterday some avatars of god used to eat meat as per our revered scriptures. Today these habits are viewed intolerable by many. Certain licentious habits are viewed bad today and unpalatable even to me just in the same way as meat is unpalatable to me, even though we have meat consumption in our religion. The future society will do what it needs to build trust and friendship. After all Draupadi herself could be accused in a bad way, yet society could accept her. Every period of time will have its own standards of good and bad behavior.

The west is far more atheistic than India, yet there is more law and order. All this discussipn is irrelevant to the question of whether god exists or not.

 

[ShivKC]

After all Draupadi herself could be accused in a bad way, yet society could accept her. Every period of time will have its own standards of good and bad behavior.

The west is far more atheistic than India, yet there is more law and order. All this discussipn is irrelevant to the question of whether god exists or not.

alright, Every period of time will have its own standards of good and bad behavior. here is a set of argument.

what about the german concentration camps and gas chambers? can you as an atheist state that those camps were wrong? no, you can’t. cos they can claim, that they lived in a different culture with different ethical and moral values. The choices they made were their choices, and only for germans. the key point is, which you will also agree, no atheist anywhere has a right to impose his own moral views on someone from a different culture. without god, everything is permitted and we all live life completely for self.

for an atheist, he lived, enacted genocide, but escaped the from the arms of the law by his suicide.but a theist, he has not escaped punishment, cos he will be punished though his karma. thats the difference.. this is what i was asking about justice system debaunchery, which atheism has no answers. ""Rational people will live moderately irrational people will live immoderately"" is not the answer, because it doesnt answer about the justice for irrational acts.

you may say, this topic is slightly deviated away from the core point 'god exists?". no,like many attempts each one tried to prove the existence of god, like first cause, sub sets, philosophy,consciousness QM etc, im taking here the route of proving existence of god through 'LAW'.

in the world where every thing in science is defined by law, law of gravity, law of thermo dynamics, there must be existing a higher level of law & a highest ranked police man, who can control such mentioned acts which happens behind screen, goes un-punished, but since the JUSTICE system should exist common for all, there must be existing one Super Judge and Super Cop.. logically, you cannot question the existence of such super cop cum judge, cos you being a believer of science must also be a believer in Laws & system. even einstein was searching for an universal law by which every thing abides..

I call that super cop and judge as God and his mode of punishment as Karma. and i have coined his name only with just 3 letters!

do you have any other better judicial system to address this issues?

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr.Yamaka,

1. In my mind, Periyar succeeded a lot... he made ordinary people to think the possibility of a Man-made God and the potential exploitation of the innocent people by Theists!

".......think the possibility of a Man-made Hindu God ........" would have been more appropriate. Periyar never had the guts to address the theists including the abrahamic religions. He always addressed only the Hindu theist brahmins and justified it by specious arguments.

2. I believe now the ranks of "Middle Course" by the so-called "Agno-Theists" are swelling... this is a real success story for Periyar and the Atheists/Agnostics/Naturalists/Reformists/Rationalists... I am positive that the children of these people will turn permanently AWAY from all Man-made Gods and their worship in a few generations.

This is the fond hope of Yamaka and many other kazhagamites. Poor souls. They are in for a big disappointment if the present trends are any indicators. I dont know where is the swelling. It needs only a visit to Bangaru adigal's Melmaruvathur (I am deleberately avoiding the names of Mylapore and Tirupati temples) to see for oneself how the believers are increasing day by day. I recommend to you a visit to Melmaruvathur when you are in India next time.

Modern thinking (the scientific thinking) will be with us for ever... our children WILL be more modern and scientific than us.. that's inexorable... get ready to accept the humongous changes coming on our way... our children will NEVER put up with old superstitious assumptions and discrimination in the Society... Everyone's Civil Liberty will be protected whether we like it or not.

You are equating modern thinking with scientific thinking as if this definition is accepted by every human being under the sun. Similarly old and superstition are equated and put in the same bracket. Where from do you get these misconceptions? Please revisit your understandings and assumptions. They need urgent review.

3. Siva, the best argument that Theists in this Forum make is "Why Atheists come to this TB Forum?,,, Why they not start their own Forum etc?
My answer is Why NOT... what are THEY afraid of?

I have not come across any such argument so far in this forum - against atheism. People might have wondered why some one comes here to deliver a harangue from their pulpit to the indifferent theists and waste time. Let them all come. Theists and brahmins have no problem whatsoever. We can handle this and more.

Again, I totally reject the underlying assumption that Atheists are anti-Brahmins and they hate Brahmins.... I believe that most of the Brahmins are intellectuals and they analyze ALL issues to the core...including the possibility of God and NO God... Where's the problem?I believe we are on the right track.

Whatever we know or not, we certainly know who have hatred for brahmins. It is loud and clear. You can not miss it.

Cheers.

 

[nachi naga]

subbudu,when you were a child,you did not have faculties well developed to ascertain,whether your mother and relatives pointed your dad,but yet trustingly lovingly you believed.there are many mothers fathers in the form of gurus explaining and showing the path to god.trust them learm from them and automatically the inner guru within you will blossom and unfold the tru reality.renu already gave an analogy of oxygen,every breath is so ham whether in or out.my 2 cents explanation in layman terms.hope you are graced by the lord within and have the vision . krishna sharanam mama.

 

[Yamaka]

..............................

It is crystal clear that man came from apes and from other lower form. We know that apes dont have a god. We know that the holy cow also does not believe in god. It proves that survival and evolution happens with ownership of responsibility. Since no animals worship god, only humans invented god at a later stage. Until then humans continued living happily even without god. So for survival god is not a necessity. Even assuming that the concept of a hidden protector was invented for practical purposes, one must think about practical ways of living and a mechanism that will work , instead of inventing lies. As explained god is probably an invention and if so it is time to update the concept of invented. The concept of religion/cult which seems to emerge everytime god is emphasized and this concept causes danger to humans, like we see today.

Very well said... Thanks Subbudu Sir.

Regards

Y

 

[sangom]

Originally posted by Shri Nara
Yet, even though there are so many forums for expressing theism unfettered, and the fact that Praveen allows free flow of ideas in a few forums like General Discussion (GD), some people want us gagged even in the GD forum! Why is it hard for those whose sensibilities are easily ruffled to ignore GD forum, like we keep our peace in the forums where criticisms are not permitted? Is it morbid curiosity or fatal attraction?

Cheers!

Honestly, I tend to be convinced more and more that the so-called theists find more satisfaction and have, therefore, more passion in atheist-bashing. That is why they deliberately twist the matter and denote whatever the atheists say as "brahmin bashing" whereas they should have stuck to god-bashing or theists-bashing, if only they are honest in their conscience. When they rope in the "brahmin" feeling to get some support for which they would be ineligible, what they actually forget is that almost all members here are not real brahmins according to the very scriptures on which they swear, but most are here only because of the accident of their birth to parents who are labeled as "Brahmins" by the government's norms.

Someone announced that his forefathers supported theism, that they could not have been wrong and hence he swears by theism. But I ask all members to introspect and find out how far our forefathers had deviated from all that was envisaged of a true brahmin, diluted almost all matters relating to customs & manners, lifestyle, appearance, vocation to be chosen and rejected and so on. If the members feel that their forefathers right up to their previous generation had been 100% strict vedic brahmins, then there is some strength in the statement that their forefathers' theistic view was not wrong or cannot be wrong. But in almost all cases of TBs it will be found without doubt that their forefathers for many, many generations have continually diluted the adherence to scriptures and preferred the worldly wisdom of பொழைக்கிற வழி (poḻaikkiṟa vaḻi). Then, that means that the forefathers had little real faith in the scriptures but carried on the theist line because most humans are trained to be theists by their parents, society and by governments too, in some cases.

So, "brahmin-bashing" has very little relevance in this forum IMO.

There is a point made of atheists going to the kaabaa and announcing their pov, etc. Atheists here in this forum do not step into any other forum except the general discussions, in which Shri Praveen has allowed all povs. Here also the atheists do not want to convert anyone but they give their views. But if the theists feel that they can claim complete hegemony in this general discussion forum also in the guise of being "brahmins", I will say the atheists are also equally "brahmins" by birth and have as much claim to this forum as the theists.

The truth of the matter is that the so-called pseudo-theists here feel they have done a noble job in defending god against attack and annihilation by atheists, that their god will probably repay his gratitude to them in times of their (theists') need. In other words such wanton attack on the atheists is a "punyakarma" and accumulation of such punya will elevate them to heaven or moksha

 

[nachi naga]

How can God, who is most powerful can only be "formless and unknown"? That takes away some power from the "most powerful". Hence I declare that islam's version of God as an illogical definition.

its not islam which gave this truth,its our own homespun sanathana dharma which gave in sanskrit language nirguna brahman.in arabic language god is called al-lah.extensive commentary can be found in al-hind in arabic language too.

According to Hinduism, the most powerful God can be formless, formed, unknown, known, and even be powerless, all left to his own free will. That is the only consistent way God can be defined. The word "powerless" is in the same connotation of "Null set" being a subset of the All Powerful SuperSet and it is not mathematically illogical. Hence, the concept of God in Hinduism is more consistent than islam.

because human beings devolved,the avatars in the forms came into earthly plane.just as human body has various organs,we exist as in earth as a organ of the magno-monolith body of god,as in hiranya gabha aka womb of god.to have this vision arjuna became scared even though a kshatria warrior prince,lord krishna had to bring him back to normal.the sage of kanchi chandrasekerendra saraswathi has written in deivathin kural about the mahimas of god and ,the lord as avatarred in shirdi,puttaparthy and in future in guna-parthy will keep showing the margam,this i believe and now i write,i know.blessed are those who have had darshan of shirdi sai baba ,puttaparthi sai baba,guna-parthi sai baba.kali yugam is redeemed by the avataram from trinity's lord shivas paramparam.

 

[tks]

My replies in Blue.

Dear Ravi,

This is the second time you have used to word confused on me.My answer remains the same Ravi and I personally feel no one of us should even question that Percentage of Faith for God for anyone when I am not even sure if God "thinks" I qualify as His Bhakta.I do come with lots of flaws too.

- I said, you seem to be in confusion and misunderstand becasue you often tell me, Ravi, you know me better than this, Ravi, you know Amala better than this.....For nothing else I have found you confused and in misunderstanding.

- Our personal flaws as individual humans has nothing to do with our belief in GOD and our dedicated spirituality. I can say this with 100% affirmation.


See we are no Theist Police here but just sharing our opinion thats all.

- I can well see Atheist Police here. My honest suggestion to one Baktha (Amala) was found as stirn preaching by Shri Yamaka, sarcastically (adding LOL)

With regards to Nara's post that his opinion from the Atheist Camp even though I dont fully agree with it I guess he was also being frank.

- Amala, you, me , sh. Nara, Dr.Barani, Shri Sravna, Shiv, sh.subuddu1, Shri.Tks and all other members are honest here with our understanding and belief. Because of that only we are all honestly debating and presenting ourself here.

Ravi I cant understand this line of yours :




Really ? I am a Theist so Geeta and Vedas are my back up points.If someone chooses not to acknowledge them its their problem and not mine.
BTW I dont consider any knowledge ours..its all loaned from the All Mighty

- I told refering vedic scriptures would not stand good here where we have to present ourself with Atheist police, who all have considered veda and its teachings, zilch and oppressive.

[/QUOTE.]

Sri Ravi -

I was traveling and catching up on just few posts!

I find that you are very polite in your posts which is refreshing. However I was surprised with your recent posts which had a discrodant note ("You seem to be confused" etc). No need for any response, just sharing my perception.

In my view there are really no theists or atheists or any other self proclaimed 'eists' here - Just a group of confused people with respect to this idea of 'God' with varying degrees of confusion and all asserting their views (I include myself in this list obviously). People of India and Indian origin love to argue

In my view everyone is fine regardless of their logic and belief system provided they are not out to denigrate others or act superior even while asserting they they are for the 'oppressed'. I have responded mainly to what I perceive as repeated behavior of put downs in their posts, with the intent to stop such unwarrented attacks by providing what I deem is an appropriate response. I dont deal with some who I feel are troubled beyond reason.

Despite all this it has been fun to argue. Let us keep arguing!

Regards

 

[ShivKC]

It is crystal clear that man came from apes and from other lower form. We know that apes dont have a god. We know that the holy cow also does not believe in god. It proves that survival and evolution happens with ownership of responsibility. Since no animals worship god, only humans invented god at a later stage.

if i could arrange your posts,

1) man came from apes
2) apes dont believe in god
3) so man dont need to believe in god
4) concludes, man is nothing more than an animal.

this logical deduction is what i was talking about the dangerous position, atheism could lead to. interestingly this position may contradict richard dawkins self-mutating genes stand, cos, your logic positions the man on par with animals, and no mutation could have resulted in mankinds advance nature of looking for god and doing good.

outcome of the dangerous position is here is, while keeping animals on par with humans,and in the absence of god and any divine guidance, any man could take up his own rule book and live an animal live and write jungle law.i have explained this in previous post

further deduction of that logic could lead to ..

1) animals force any weaker female and mate any time and any place, so any human can prey on any women.

2) animals eat their own sibling, so can a man, and the fittest would survive.

3) monkey robs the tourist, so why put the robbers in jail? after all we came from apes.


the thing is, humans though came from monkey, its the highest of the gods creation or evolution. it has the powers to seek god, commune with god, pray to god, which animals dont have that intelligence. and the science has grown along with human advancement, the search for god and his proof also went on with a higher level of thought process.

sadest part is, if god exists are not, atheist ideology, will push man down to the level of animal thinking.


anyway, i have an interesting question. how do you know that animals do not worship. though they lack constructional ability to build temples/do rituals, they must be silently praying to god, through their mind, while living in their burrows.. like how you asked proof for existence of god, can you please attempt to prove animals don't pray to god? i would appreciate your response to this

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Mr.Yamaka,
....................................................

Whatever we know or not, we certainly know who have hatred for brahmins. It is loud and clear. You can not miss it.

Cheers.

Dear Mr. Raju:

In my mind, what's hatred?

1. What that Norwegian Mass killer (Andre Breivik?) did to those innocent teenagers and his view against Muslims and Islam!

2. What some of the Rednecks in the US did to Blacks in Southern States (mostly around 1960s and before)!

3. What Israelis are doing in the Occupied Territories of Palestine against the Natives!

4. What Hitler did to Jews in Europe!

NEVER ever such things happened in TN against TBs.... what all we hear is just political rhetoric from a few Political Party cadre... that's all.

Even the most ardent followers of Periyar and Suyya Mariyathai Movement do allow their children to marry Brahmin boys and girls. Some people in the Forum even call Mu Ka as MK Iyer! (Ask Ms. Harini).

This "hatred against TBs" is another manufactured Belief started by some Theists, IMO.

Take care.

Peace.

 

[tks]

Atheists go everywhere and critique ALL man-made religions and their Gods, IMO.

I don't know who is specifically going after "bovine Brahmins(?!!)"? Not me!

Paranoia....

I understood from DrBarani's posting is that he was referring to the self-proclaimed "atheists" here. Let me provide clarification!

Have you been to say an Islamic forum and said 'Allah does not exist, Islamism is evil, I need respect and what is stated in Koran is all 'snake oil' ? (If I remember correctly you have done this here directly or indirectly).

Do reply, Yes or no to the question above , with explanation if needed.

Regards

 

[nachi naga]

I will rather add that a bad society produces bad religion. Let us not mince words and we know that religion is misused because either the people behave without control or their upbringing is not good. Same will be true with atheism in place.

It is crystal clear that man came from apes and from other lower form. We know that apes dont have a god. We know that the holy cow also does not believe in god. It proves that survival and evolution happens with ownership of responsibility. Since no animals worship god, only humans invented god at a later stage. Until then humans continued living happily even without god. So for survival god is not a necessity. Even assuming that the concept of a hidden protector was invented for practical purposes, one must think about practical ways of living and a mechanism that will work , instead of inventing lies. As explained god is probably an invention and if so it is time to update the concept of invented. The concept of religion/cult which seems to emerge everytime god is emphasized and this concept causes danger to humans, like we see today.

personally my opinion is,from man & woman we go to become apes,chimps,monkeys,vanaras as higher evolved animal king-queen dom.humans are so arrogant,that we think animals are sub-species and lower in divine form.wonder what the cow is gonna say now?

 

[nachi naga]

Dear Mr. Raju:

In my mind, what's hatred?

1. What that Norwegian Mass killer (Andre Breivik?) did to those innocent teenagers and his view against Muslims and Islam!

2. What some of the Rednecks in the US did to Blacks in Southern States (mostly around 1960s and before)!

3. What Israelis are doing in the Occupied Territories of Palestine against the Natives!

4. What Hitler did to Jews in Europe!

NEVER ever such things happened in TN against TBs.... what all we hear is just political rhetoric from a few Political Party cadre... that's all.

Even the most ardent followers of Periyar and Suyya Mariyathai Movement do allow their children to marry Brahmin boys and girls. Some people in the Forum even call Mu Ka as MK Iyer! (Ask Ms. Harini).

This "hatred against TBs" is another manufactured Belief started by some Theists, IMO.

Take care.

Peace.

the reservation policy validates hatred.instead of evaluating the merit worthness,the seats are allocated based on birth lineage.soon we will have doctors who will be butchers in human anatomy,engineers instead of building wil be designing wreckages galore within a short span of time.sometimes i wonder the yuga description from puranas,how did they prohesise this crap in future?or is it maya of the mind swerving my dharma and thereby giving me ashanthi?

 

[nachi naga]

Lord Muruga once posed some question on Avvaiyar. On being asked, avvaiyar said. O lord Muruga, you know everything in the world. Even then you have asked me these question. In obedience, I shall explain.
Avvaiyar is a great saint (Old Lady)

Lord Muruga: Which is the biggest in the world?
Avvaiyar : The world itself is biggest
Lord Muruga: Is this the universe the biggest?
Avvaiyar : No, the universe was created by brahma. Hence brahma is great.
Lord Muruga: If so, is brahma alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, brahma was born in the umbilical (navel) of vishnu.
Lord Muruga: If so, is vishnu alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, vishnu slept in the waves of the ocean.
Lord Muruga: If so, is the ocean alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, Agathiyar the great saint drank the ocean.
Lord Muruga: If so, is Agathiyar alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, Agathiyar was born in a pot.
Lord Muruga: If so, is the pot alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, the pot was made up of a little sand of the earth.
Lord Muruga: If so, is the earth alone biggest?
Avvaiyar : Not so, it is only a partial for Aadhisheshan (snake) who carries the world.
Lord Muruga: If so, is Aadhisheshan the snake alone great?
Avvaiyar : Not like that, this great snake is a small ring worn in the little finger of the and beautiful hand of Eswari.( The wife of Lord Siva )
Lord Muruga: If so, is Eswari alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, Lord Siva has given half of his body to Eswari.
Lord Muruga: If so, Lord Siva alone great?
Avvaiyar : No, the Lord Siva himself lives in the hearts of his devotees. Therefore the devotees are the great ones in the world and their glory is immeasurable...

facebook spiritual group postings courtesy copy and paste technology

 

[C RAVI]

if i could arrange your posts,

1) man came from apes
2) apes dont believe in god
3) so man dont need to believe in god
4) concludes, man is nothing more than an animal.

this logical deduction is what i was talking about the dangerous position, atheism could lead to. interestingly this position may contradict richard dawkins self-mutating genes stand, cos, your logic positions the man on par with animals, and no mutation could have resulted in mankinds advance nature of looking for god and doing good.

outcome of the dangerous position is here is, while keeping animals on par with humans,and in the absence of god and any divine guidance, any man could take up his own rule book and live an animal live and write jungle law.i have explained this in previous post

further deduction of that logic could lead to ..

1) animals force any weaker female and mate any time and any place, so any human can prey on any women.

2) animals eat their own sibling, so can a man, and the fittest would survive.

3) monkey robs the tourist, so why put the robbers in jail? after all we came from apes.


the thing is, humans though came from monkey, its the highest of the gods creation or evolution. it has the powers to seek god, commune with god, pray to god, which animals dont have that intelligence. and the science has grown along with human advancement, the search for god and his proof also went on with a higher level of thought process.

sadest part is, if god exists are not, atheist ideology, will push man down to the level of animal thinking.


anyway, i have an interesting question. how do you know that animals do not worship. though they lack constructional ability to build temples/do rituals, they must be silently praying to god, through their mind, while living in their burrows.. like how you asked proof for existence of god, can you please attempt to prove animals don't pray to god? i would appreciate your response to this

Dear Shiv,


Atheists says that humans were as crude and cruel as animals and have gradualy evolved, formed a fair and descent social set up, law and order and thus living a civil life on this Earth. There is nothing called God who is the reason behind all this.

Atheists claim that we have evolved in such a refine form by using imaginary GOD/Supernatural power to keep us frightened so as to adher to man made rules.

Atheists say that religion is used as a tool with some cryptic scriptures to mislead and oppress humans.


Atheist clearly say that, Humans are exploring sceince and technology becasue they are using their biologically evolved brains and could come out of great explorations, that were all naturally prevailing in the environment. They are gradually decoding and developing into useful forms.


Atheists say that we have developed many things, by learning from other living beings because only human genes and brains are growing smarter and smarter and achieving lot great.

Atheists say that if you give up religion and its priniciples, you would be clear to understand that God does not exist. They say that, the concept of GOD need to be precisely concluded as paradox because you could come out of the clutches of religion and its scriptures and by that you would clearly except that God doesn't exist.

Atheists say that only because of such religious scriptures humans are oppressing fellow humnas, otherwise of which they would have not.

Atheists say that Animals and Humans are same. The only thing is they could not evolve to make their life more better. But we have evolved on our own and still should have law and order so that we can have descent and fairl life, unlike animals.

Athiests say that the sense of descent social setup, fair human sense, the sense of realizing the need of law and order, the sense of descipline, righteousness, love to care each other, love to share with each other etc are not at all due to GOD...It's purely due to humans endeavors towards better evolution.

Atheists says that Animals are Animals because the environment is like that...But Humans are though Humans in the same environment are exclusively intelligent and are advancing purely becuase of their own efforts towards betterment and sophisticated life.

Atheists says that Scientific and technological advancements prove that we are the creators & progressing towards better creation and before these advancements we were incomplete humans.

Atheists says that only because of religion and religious scriptures we are differentiating ourself from other species, oppressing fellow humans and misleading ourself as incomplete humans. And only with technological, sceintific advancements, ignoring religion and religion made GOD, we are evolving to make ourself wholesome develped humans.


So, they say, we were the only fools praying GOD and not the animals. Now we are evolving towards better understanding, better technological advancements, better survival in terms of "the fittest survive", acheive a more realistic world with no ambiguity, no false projection of GOD and no misleading unproved GOD. We should not believe and pray GOD so that we can better evolve ourself. Those who are praying GOD are still not evolved completely and under confused state of mind and in dark.

So, they may say that animals don't pray as evolved humans don't pray God. The humans who believe in GOD and pray are the most pitiful lot. They need to evolve themselves and be in par with fully evolved Humans.


My question to Atheists would be, can they make an attempt to evolve animals equal to them so that 100% Theists can come out of dark and have complete evolution, atleast in the sense that Theists looks similar to Atheist in shape? Or atleast with their technological advancements can they develop some special gass or something and spread in the environment so that all Theists brains can shun religion and related oppressions, understand that God does not exist, so that the whole world will be full of peace and contribute a lot towards technological advancements in a focused manner, clearing off all unwanted garbage in their brain, pertaining to GOD?

 

[Yamaka]

the reservation policy validates hatred.instead of evaluating the merit worthness,the seats are allocated based on birth lineage.soon we will have doctors who will be butchers in human anatomy,engineers instead of building wil be designing wreckages galore within a short span of time.sometimes i wonder the yuga description from puranas,how did they prohesise this crap in future?or is it maya of the mind swerving my dharma and thereby giving me ashanthi?

Reservation Policy is a National Policy....which many of the Senior experienced TBs in this Forum support..

Independent India wants to correct the historical injustice done to the SC/ST/OBC for the past atleast 500 years by the Oppressive Caste System practiced by the Upper Caste.

I support the current Reservation Policy of India, and the logic behind it, period.

 

[nachi naga]

Reservation Policy is a National Policy....which many of the Senior experienced TBs in this Forum support..

Independent India wants to correct the historical injustice done to the SC/ST/OBC for the past atleast 500 years by the Oppressive Caste System practiced by the Upper Caste.

I support the current Reservation Policy of India, and the logic behind it, period.

at my age i am semi-senior tb,and i have a right to express a policy which will slide india down,if merit is not the criteria for educational excellance.give free books,lodging,clothing,encouragement funds etc but not to compromise on the merit.as far as history is concerned let it be history or herstory.forthe present its a political agenda to manipulate the citizens into another bout of ignorance.its logically illogical,imho.

 

[DrBarani]

at my age i am semi-senior tb,and i have a right to express a policy which will slide india down,if merit is not the criteria for educational excellance.give free books,lodging,clothing,encouragement funds etc but not to compromise on the merit.as far as history is concerned let it be history or herstory.forthe present its a political agenda to manipulate the citizens into another bout of ignorance.its logically illogical,imho.

Proof God Exists:


(1) Brahmins, in spite of less than 10% population, were able to "oppress" the other 90% for centuries, without touching any weapon!

(2) Brahmins controlled 90% of population for centuries, even though British and other aliens were sitting in Rock Fort with weapons and running the government!

The only way Brahmins could have accomplished (1) and (2) would be, if the Almighty God was on their side!

Q.E.D.