God Exists

[renuka]

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Originally Posted by kunjuppu

that in the process, i have had a chance to learn a lot about our society from the learned ones like nacchinarkiniyan, sangom, someone whose name cannot be mentioned, and (ofcourse) nara. ..

Dear Kunj,

Its so funny Ok..that you cant mention the name of some member.
Reminded me of some conservative patients I get who wont mention their husbands name when we ask them!!LOL

 

[C RAVI]

since this has been posted in forum, what stops you from publishing that persons name? im curious.
im sure , moderation has not put any clause or ban on referring any particular person's name.

curious! awaiting your frank response here.

I coud'nt resist my self to express what I guess, the answer from Shri Kunjuppu would be, for your question.

I supposes, that person is.. H.H.

Am I right, Shri Kunjuppu?

Sorry Shiv. I know, you are curious to hear the answer from Shri Kunjuppu.

But who ever that person is, whose name Shri K feel, can not be mentioned here, I wonder what can be the valid reason for such hesitance?

 

[prasad1]

Whether God exists or not, certainly Ego exists.

Let us try to overcome our Ego and develop the tendency to take debates as debates on a topic, rather sensitively bothering who is winning the show and who is losing.

I agree with you fully.
If we really overcome our ego, why would I be posting in a forum? Just a thought. LOL

 

[ozone]

since this has been posted in forum, what stops you from publishing that persons name? im curious.
im sure , moderation has not put any clause or ban on referring any particular person's name.

curious! awaiting your frank response here.

I'm guessing it is Suraju-oh-six. I am sure he must have had some good learnings and sleepless days too

 

[C RAVI]

I agree with you fully.
If we really overcome our ego, why would I be posting in a forum? Just a thought. LOL

Shri Prasad,

A very sensible and valid thought.

We can for sure retain our ego that kicks us to respond with our rebuttal. A debate can not exist without rebuttal.

The only thing is, this ego should be only to the limit of arguing on the subject matter. If it goes out of control, people tend to use some hard expressions that mostly hurts the opponent personally. As well, leads to instigating unrest among the debating groups.

Secondly, it makes the rebutter to address to the like minded member (who shares the same views and opinions) in order to express the counter argument, instead of addressing the opponent directly.

Lastly, it goes to the extent that the rebutter feels too disappointed to the extent of quiting onself.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

You said:


Several folks have left during this time and in my opinion, for lack of Moderation as Sri Praveen could not spend much time.

You also surprise me by implying that diverse views are not allowed here anymore.

Sir, people has chosen to leave not because their views were not allowed, but because they chose not to listen to the Moderation. As you know, both myself and Sri Praveen were involved. I don't understand why you would say such things again, when you said you had no issues when I offered any discussion on this privately. This type of playing both sides is what creates the problem. On one hand you say you support the Moderation, on the other hand you say something else. Sorry, I think this is absolutely wrong. Seems to me you are not forthright.

You seem to make it like that if one supports the Moderation, it must be because they belong to some vile and boring group. This type of assessment is also wrong on your part.

Regards,
KRS

Now I am really confused.

I find it unable to distinguish between KRS the moderator and KRS the member. For the message in the post, is so intermixed with overlappings across domains. atleast to me it appears such.

I see there are 3 distinct parameters – moderation, moderator, member.

Moderation is a set of guidelines ie ‘rules of the road’ to preserve sanity in the forum. I support it. I have said so several times before.

Moderator is one, who enforces moderation – if I have problem with the moderator, I will quietly leave the forum, than argue, because i would not waste my energy for something, which is an administrative thing of the forum, and upto the owner to address it, if he so choses.

With the member KRS, I can deal as I have dealt all along and had lively conversations.

To me, the above post #2044, spans all three parameters, and hence I find it confusing and I fear, addressing any one, will invoke censorship from the other.

Hence it is best I do not comment any more..

 

[ShivKC]

Now I am really confused.

I find it unable to distinguish between KRS the moderator and KRS the member. For the message in the post, is so intermixed with overlappings across domains. atleast to me it appears such.

I see there are 3 distinct parameters – moderation, moderator, member.

Moderation is a set of guidelines ie ‘rules of the road’ to preserve sanity in the forum. I support it. I have said so several times before.

Moderator is one, who enforces moderation – if I have problem with the moderator, I will quietly leave the forum, than argue, because i would not waste my energy for something, which is an administrative thing of the forum, and upto the owner to address it, if he so choses.

With the member KRS, I can deal as I have dealt all along and had lively conversations.

To me, the above post #2044, spans all three parameters, and hence I find it confusing and I fear, addressing any one, will invoke censorship from the other.

Hence it is best I do not comment any more..

i must say, you are very intelligent and diplomatic,, you know how to pen things!

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu:

Now I am really confused.

I find it unable to distinguish between KRS the moderator and KRS the member. For the message in the post, is so intermixed with overlappings across domains. atleast to me it appears such.

I can do nothing but smile. What a tour de farce!

Cleverness expressed with obfuscation with truth turned upside down and reflected back with an often repeated accusation! Brilliant!

I have nothing else to say. I, as a simpleton, prostrate before such a word gymnastics! Bravo.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Raghy]

Now I am really confused.

I find it unable to distinguish between KRS the moderator and KRS the member. For the message in the post, is so intermixed with overlappings across domains. atleast to me it appears such.

I see there are 3 distinct parameters – moderation, moderator, member.

Moderation is a set of guidelines ie ‘rules of the road’ to preserve sanity in the forum. I support it. I have said so several times before.

Moderator is one, who enforces moderation – if I have problem with the moderator, I will quietly leave the forum, than argue, because i would not waste my energy for something, which is an administrative thing of the forum, and upto the owner to address it, if he so choses.

With the member KRS, I can deal as I have dealt all along and had lively conversations.

To me, the above post #2044, spans all three parameters, and hence I find it confusing and I fear, addressing any one, will invoke censorship from the other.

Hence it is best I do not comment any more..

Sri.Kunjuppu, Greetings.

Now that Sri.KRS had prostrated to this message, I like to comment on this message, please.

I personally don't find any difference between Sri. KRS 'the moderator' and Sri. KRS 'the member' since I don't even expect to find one. Nobody is faultless. Although this forum has a rule 'moderators decision is fanale', that had not stopped me from voicing my opinions if I could prove my opinions are justifiable. I remember in one instance, I was not happy with Sri.KRS's severity in moderation towards one junior member; at that instance, Sri. KRS's moderation was supported by yourself and by Sri.Nara.

Now I am finding mesages from you voicing concerns about Sri.KRS's moderation.If your concerns are solid, if your points are well justifiable, I think you should be openly question the moderation about those points. It may be possible, you may have already raised your concerns; it may also be possible, Sri.KRS may have explained his actions. I don't know. I am only mentioning from a third person's point of view, without making any involvement.

While I am writing this to you, I like to bring to your attention about your own judgement, please. In the very recent past, one member, instead of addressing my message, commented on my person by writing something judgemental. It doesn't really worry me; but you clicked 'like' to that message. I am not asking you why; all I am saying is, you may make an error in your judgement too. Nobody is faultless.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

Sri.Kunjuppu, Greetings.

I personally don't find any difference between Sri. KRS 'the moderator' and Sri. KRS 'the member' since I don't even expect to find one. Nobody is faultless.
Cheers!

sh.raghy, while starting this post in full agreement with your point 'nobody is faultless', lets not forget there is an important message sh.kunjuppu has conveyed there. when it comes to KRS's post, and i also felt the same, many a times.

im a guy, who pays more attention to the tone of writing and try often to smell the emotions of the author. that's where, the problem lies with me, while owning this skill. i think, sh.kujuppu also feels the same, may be we both pounded too much on that red hard bound 'wren&martin' book,though there is one generation gap here.


have a look 2044 & 2058 of KRS. being a mod, and looking at his admonishing tone, even i have a confusion, whether that post is written with some kind admonishing authority (or) its just a friendly post (or) is it the unique style of sh.krs himself. to my limited english skills (unlike sh.K), i can only get a feel that, its written with more authority, not as it would be , from a fellow poster.

however, i give the benefit of doubt to sh.krs, concluding that, its may his own writing style, as he often says, he is a simpleton. may be he is the eldest son in his family, an unique trait of first born kids, who normally grew with authority and command.

so, why people are scared of KRS posts and struggle too much to figure out , if its written in the tone of friendly fellow poster OR moderator (even without red)..

the proverb goes, "he who has been bitten by a snake, is afraid of an eel'

anyways, i also safely conclude the same way you did. 'no body is faultless'

 

[tbs]

hi folks,
this is a web forum....nobody knows each other in physical manner....we are all from different continents....from usa, uk, south africa,

india and even australia... as brothers/sisters here in single platform....different back grounds/ differents tastes...still we feel

WE BELONG TO EACH OTHER....nobody is bigboss here....self moderation is more enough.....still sharing views....nobody is here

as THOTTA SINUGI...... age /other qualities does not make a any big deal here.....all are enough matured with life experiences....

different flower colors make a beautifUl garland......different ideas always welcome..not a ego/bossy type nature....i like the ravi's

beautiful word............. GOD EXISTS OR NOT.....BUT EGO EXISTS....NO DOUBT.....THANKS TO PRAVEEN SIR....MATURITY

MORE THAN HIS AGE...

 

[Raji Ram]

.....we are all from different continents....from usa, uk, south africa,

india and even australia... as brothers/sisters here in single platform...........

Very true.... We are ONE family of brothers and sisters! That is the reason for the forum :fencing:

நீர் அடிச்சு நீர் விலகாது! So, let us continue as a family!! :grouphug:

 

[Raghy]

Very true.... We are ONE family of brothers and sisters! That is the reason for the forum :fencing:

நீர் அடிச்சு நீர் விலகாது! So, let us continue as a family!! :grouphug:

Sowbagyavathy Raji Ram, Greetings.

I could not help it. Just being naughty......நீர் அடிச்சு நீர் விலகாது என்கிறீரே! என்றால், வேறு யாரவது அடிச்சால் நீர் விலகுமா?

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Shiv, Greetings.

After reading your message #2060, I went through post #2044 again. I did not find that post either authoritative nor admonishing. But then, I suppose such feelings are subjective feelings only.

Sri.KRS is right; during the said period, few members left, indeed due to lack of moderation. Often times people like to 'believe in something'; it does not have to be rational at all. Such beliefs and faiths are personal comforts. In the name of discussion/debates/arguments, trampling on such comforts are not very nice. Often times I felt this forum as merciless as gladiator arenas. In reality, there was no fun in this forum; I noticed more blood and gory. Of course, people love to watch gladiator fights, love to watch blood and gory, so such debates/arguments were very popular too. But I don't know how many persons benefitted from such arguments.

To be honest, I find the tone in #2044 much milder in tone compared to many of my own messages. My own message #2059 is one such a message too. I don't differretiate between members based on their number of posts/age/seniority/etc including the moderator/site owner status. All I see is a web message in front of me and I just address such a web message only. I am not too keen about the messenger at all. Recently I posted a message adressed to Sri.Praveen; that message had a similar tone too.

So, personally I don't see any difference between Sri.KRS 'the moderator' and Sri.KRS 'the member'. All the messages neither seem admonishing nor seem authoritative. But, that's me.

Cheers!

 

[ozone]

have a look 2044 & 2058 of KRS. being a mod, and looking at his admonishing tone, even i have a confusion, whether that post is written with some kind admonishing authority (or) its just a friendly post (or) is it the unique style of sh.krs himself. to my limited english skills (unlike sh.K), i can only get a feel that, its written with more authority, not as it would be , from a fellow poster.

I'm afraid we are expecting KRS as a member to be very concious of being a moderator in each post and that every post should be such that it does not have an iota of suspicion that it will fall through the moderator lense, and be a model post. I dont know if this is a fair expectation, but that seems to be it.
The tone of #2058 is no different from how a few other passionate or opinion-ated post-ers would respond, and there are several posts with similar or higher pitch, posted by normal members. To think that the tone of the post is so because it comes from one who has power and to think a response to it from another member would be degrees milder seems hard to take for me.

im a guy, who pays more attention to the tone of writing and try often to smell the emotions of the author. that's where, the problem lies with me, while owning this skill. i think, sh.kujuppu also feels the same, may be we both pounded too much on that red hard bound 'wren&martin' book,though there is one generation gap here.

nice to know. Wonder if this can be offered as a service. Hey, ShivKC, before I take a look at this, can you confirm if this one really smells fishy?

 

[C RAVI]

hi folks,
this is a web forum....nobody knows each other in physical manner....we are all from different continents....from usa, uk, south africa,

india and even australia... as brothers/sisters here in single platform....different back grounds/ differents tastes...still we feel

WE BELONG TO EACH OTHER....nobody is bigboss here....self moderation is more enough.....still sharing views....nobody is here

as THOTTA SINUGI...... age /other qualities does not make a any big deal here.....all are enough matured with life experiences....

different flower colors make a beautifUl garland......different ideas always welcome..not a ego/bossy type nature....

Very well said, Shri tbs..

NO MEMBER is a BIGBOSS here. Self Moderation is more than enough. Shri. KRS as a moderator, doing a great job here with maximum alertness.


I am reminded of one Rajani Kanth's dialogue - "Respect/honour should not be demanded. It should be offered by others with love".

 

[sangom]

Sri.Shiv, Greetings.

After reading your message #2060, I went through post #2044 again. I did not find that post either authoritative nor admonishing. But then, I suppose such feelings are subjective feelings only.

Sri.KRS is right; during the said period, few members left, indeed due to lack of moderation. Often times people like to 'believe in something'; it does not have to be rational at all. Such beliefs and faiths are personal comforts. In the name of discussion/debates/arguments, trampling on such comforts are not very nice. Often times I felt this forum as merciless as gladiator arenas. In reality, there was no fun in this forum; I noticed more blood and gory. Of course, people love to watch gladiator fights, love to watch blood and gory, so such debates/arguments were very popular too. But I don't know how many persons benefitted from such arguments.

To be honest, I find the tone in #2044 much milder in tone compared to many of my own messages. My own message #2059 is one such a message too. I don't differretiate between members based on their number of posts/age/seniority/etc including the moderator/site owner status. All I see is a web message in front of me and I just address such a web message only. I am not too keen about the messenger at all. Recently I posted a message adressed to Sri.Praveen; that message had a similar tone too.

So, personally I don't see any difference between Sri.KRS 'the moderator' and Sri.KRS 'the member'. All the messages neither seem admonishing nor seem authoritative. But, that's me.

Cheers!

Dear Shri Raghy,

You have said "So, personally I don't see any difference between Sri.KRS 'the moderator' and Sri.KRS 'the member'." And, imho, that is the root of all problems.

A moderator may have his own view/s on anything under/over the sun, but those views are better not heard in the forum of which the said person is a moderator.

Raghy,

I think you are not quite correct in saying, "during the said period, few members left, indeed due to lack of moderation.", if you are not referring to the concerned members' self-moderation. My memory is that most of them left because they would not tolerate any moderation. (I can give the relevant posts and their links here, but am refraining because, I personally will like all of them to return and contribute. But just to hog memory, I reproduce an extract from one such moderation post:—

"Let me make even more clearer.
if you are going to uphold your edition of brahminism by constantly hounding a few members, target each and every one of their posts, then i am afraid this website is not for you.
I suggest you leave this website and find some other website for your issues/activities.

I have not mentioned names, but then i am very sure whom we are talking about. Either you stop those silly activities and participate decently or just get out."
​

Hope this is sufficient.

Now, to your statement, "Often times people like to 'believe in something'; it does not have to be rational at all. Such beliefs and faiths are personal comforts. In the name of discussion/debates/arguments, trampling on such comforts are not very nice. Often times I felt this forum as merciless as gladiator arenas. In reality, there was no fun in this forum;"

Now, I can very well understand and agree that personal beliefs to which someone clings to, are of prime importance to adolescents and those who have some mentally weak predisposition. Such people will be virtually shattered if their comfort zone is razed to the ground by means of logical arguments and/or statements. But, you will agree, I think, that a Forum like this cannot be modulated to suit such specialized clients/membership. I am also at a loss to make any sense out of the "blood and gore" indicated.

Now that the issue has been resolved vide this, may we continue in our old-fashioned jovial manner?

 

[renuka]

After reading the post above I cant help thinking we(me included) are like small kids who lost our chocolate and crying out for a new chocolate.

Hey just forget every difference we have...what do we gain by complaining and complaining,complaining non stop.

Ok may be we should have a "Mudhalvan" experiment for a day or more.
Any one not happy with moderation should don the cap for a stipulated period of time and then share his experience with all.
Any takers??

 

[Raji Ram]

... Just being naughty......நீர் அடிச்சு நீர் விலகாது என்கிறீரே! என்றால், வேறு யாரவது அடிச்சால் நீர் விலகுமா?

'எதுக்கோ பட்டுக் குஞ்சலம்' என்பார்களே சார்! 'அது' அடிச்சா விலகுமே!!

(நாகரிகம் கருதி 'அதை' எழுதவில்லை!) :typing:

 

[C RAVI]

Ok may be we should have a "Mudhalvan" experiment for a day or more.

Any one not happy with moderation should don the cap for a stipulated period of time and then share his experience with all.
Any takers??

Can you take to start with? But remember, there should not be any special attachment as Mama, Mami, Anna, Akka, Yaar/Dost/Dude etc..etc , if your moderation should turn out to be justful and you could share your honest experience, as a moderator for a weak..

 

[Raghy]

'எதுக்கோ பட்டுக் குஞ்சலம்' என்பார்களே சார்! 'அது' அடிச்சா விலகுமே!!

(நாகரிகம் கருதி 'அதை' எழுதவில்லை!) :typing:

Sowbagyavathy Raji Ram,

I meant this.....(நீர் = நீங்கள் ). நீர் அடித்து நீர் விலகாது = நீங்கள் அடித்து நீர் விலகாது. ( வேறு யாராவது அடித்தால் விலகுமோ?)

Your reply is confusing! Let's move on!

Cheers!

 

[Raji Ram]

..... I meant this.....(நீர் = நீங்கள் ). நீர் அடித்து நீர் விலகாது = நீங்கள் அடித்து நீர் விலகாது. ( வேறு யாராவது அடித்தால் விலகுமோ?)

Good pun, Sir!

அவசரத்தில், இந்த 'ட்யூப் லைட்'டுக்குப் புரியவில்லை! மன்னிக்கவும். hwell:

 

[Raghy]

Dear Shri Raghy,

You have said "So, personally I don't see any difference between Sri.KRS 'the moderator' and Sri.KRS 'the member'." And, imho, that is the root of all problems.

A moderator may have his own view/s on anything under/over the sun, but those views are better not heard in the forum of which the said person is a moderator.

Raghy,

I think you are not quite correct in saying, "during the said period, few members left, indeed due to lack of moderation.", if you are not referring to the concerned members' self-moderation. My memory is that most of them left because they would not tolerate any moderation. (I can give the relevant posts and their links here, but am refraining because, I personally will like all of them to return and contribute. But just to hog memory, I reproduce an extract from one such moderation post:—

"Let me make even more clearer.
if you are going to uphold your edition of brahminism by constantly hounding a few members, target each and every one of their posts, then i am afraid this website is not for you.
I suggest you leave this website and find some other website for your issues/activities.

I have not mentioned names, but then i am very sure whom we are talking about. Either you stop those silly activities and participate decently or just get out."
​

Hope this is sufficient.

Now, to your statement, "Often times people like to 'believe in something'; it does not have to be rational at all. Such beliefs and faiths are personal comforts. In the name of discussion/debates/arguments, trampling on such comforts are not very nice. Often times I felt this forum as merciless as gladiator arenas. In reality, there was no fun in this forum;"

Now, I can very well understand and agree that personal beliefs to which someone clings to, are of prime importance to adolescents and those who have some mentally weak predisposition. Such people will be virtually shattered if their comfort zone is razed to the ground by means of logical arguments and/or statements. But, you will agree, I think, that a Forum like this cannot be modulated to suit such specialized clients/membership. I am also at a loss to make any sense out of the "blood and gore" indicated.

Now that the issue has been resolved vide this, may we continue in our old-fashioned jovial manner?

Dear Sri.Sangom Sir, Greetings.

It is very nice to read your opinions again in this forum.

I have taken part in other forums too. It is not very uncommon for the moderator to take part as a member. But in other forums, sometimes the moderator may use a different handle while posting as a member. But then, there are times, there is a good chance of a conflict of interest when the moderator's opinion differ from the member's opinion. I am not qualified to analyse either Sri.KRS's messages or your messages or the messages in question. So, I have to stop here.

Yes, sir. During the period when we had no moderation, few members did leave the forum due to lack of moderation. Unfortunately, most of them were not missed though. Few members like yourself have the erudition, knowledge, conviction and clear understanding of your own position very well; but majority of the members show up here lack such convictions or knowledge; but some of them seem to have faith and belief. They are weak minded persons. Why should anyone raze such weak minded persons comfort zone? Social reforms doesn't happen by razing weak minded person's comfort zones. Social reforms happen by building on strength. If I work on those same persons, their faith and belief is the strength from which I would build. When I mentioned about ;blood and gore', I meant the razing of such weak minded person's comfort zones.

I only mentioned about few members who could not defend their belief, got thrashed in couple of messages. I may be guilty of such thrashing too. I only mentioned such members. Not members who could debate/argue their point of views.

I think it is perfectly okay for someone to have groundless beliefs and an unshakable faith as long as such faith doesn't put others at harms way/ such faith stays personal/ such faith is not imposed on others.

Sri.KRS have done a very good job, a thankless job as a moderator. Nobody is faultless.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri.Sangom Sir, Greetings.

It is very nice to read your opinions again in this forum.

I have taken part in other forums too. It is not very uncommon for the moderator to take part as a member. But in other forums, sometimes the moderator may use a different handle while posting as a member. But then, there are times, there is a good chance of a conflict of interest when the moderator's opinion differ from the member's opinion. I am not qualified to analyse either Sri.KRS's messages or your messages or the messages in question. So, I have to stop here.

Dear Shri Raghy,

For any disease symptom we are advised strongly not to do "self medication" based on inputs like which medicine worked for X, or Y or Z. This is because what works for X/Y/Z may not work for me or you. I feel, in the same way, we should not compare other forums and try prescribing remedies for our problems in this website. (Incidentally, I have not participated in any other forum but have come across very vulgar and atrocious language in some and those have been tolerated, it seems. Obviously, we cannot make that as our model either. Hence we have to find the cure for our ills ourselves.

Yes, sir. During the period when we had no moderation, few members did leave the forum due to lack of moderation. Unfortunately, most of them were not missed though. Few members like yourself have the erudition, knowledge, conviction and clear understanding of your own position very well; but majority of the members show up here lack such convictions or knowledge; but some of them seem to have faith and belief. They are weak minded persons. Why should anyone raze such weak minded persons comfort zone? Social reforms doesn't happen by razing weak minded person's comfort zones. Social reforms happen by building on strength. If I work on those same persons, their faith and belief is the strength from which I would build. When I mentioned about ;blood and gore', I meant the razing of such weak minded person's comfort zones.

Rules 3 & 4 of this Forum Rules state:—

3.Each member agrees to have an open mind with respect to the views that are shared and topics discussed.

4.Be courteous. - Remember, we're a diverse community of people with diverse opinions. Everyone wants to be treated with respect, and showing respect to others makes the community better for all members.

And I think every member who registers is supposed to read, understand and agree to the above rules also. Therefore, if, as you now claim, there are certain weak minded persons whose "differently abled" status is to be recognized and allowed for, certain amendments to the Forum Rules will be indispensable. I leave it to Shri Praveen to take a decision in this matter and inform all of us.

I only mentioned about few members who could not defend their belief, got thrashed in couple of messages. I may be guilty of such thrashing too. I only mentioned such members. Not members who could debate/argue their point of views.

No comments.

I think it is perfectly okay for someone to have groundless beliefs and an unshakable faith as long as such faith doesn't put others at harms way/ such faith stays personal/ such faith is not imposed on others.

Once again Shri Praveen will have to decide this point.

 

[renuka]

Can you take to start with? But remember, there should not be any special attachment as Mama, Mami, Anna, Akka, Yaar/Dost/Dude etc..etc , if your moderation should turn out to be justful and you could share your honest experience, as a moderator for a weak..

Ok why not but right now I am not free becos my Nani(grandmum) is very ill in hospital and also I have my Sanskrit exam in February so I have to study too for it.

In March I should be free for this challenge for a few days!!LOL