God Exists

[Raghy]

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Dear Sri.Sangom sir, Greetings.

Thanks for your reply. I refer to your message in post #2080.

Sir, I can assure you, I am upright. That's why this conversation is happening. I am trying to tell my exact aim; but possibly due to my insufficient language skills, my message doesn't seem to be conveyed in full.

I think you have a clear agenda that it is your view which is the best and all other views are inferior. You ask somewhat thetorically, "Has anything happened in the forum that reflects any improvement in the brahmin community? for that matter any community?" And you try to project your "achievement" of including an ic married girl as sumangali in the ensuing sumangali prarthanai, as a great victory for your own approach of herding mentally weak persons with beliefs for their comforts and "reforming" them in your own majestic way!

Sir, I do have an agenda. But my agenda is not to say my view is the best and all the other views are inferior; if I really have to say that, I would just say that in one single message. So far, in this forum, I expressed my views just plainly.

I am not ashamed of working with someone with strong conviction to change their views using methods focused on their own strengths either. Although I wrote them to show the make-up of the brahmin community mentality, why not? I am more than happy to consider that as an achievement that would permanently change the practices in few families as the precedence got set.

I can assure you, my initial message was not written for the purpose as seen by you in the quoted message.

You see Mr. Raghy, you are stationary in a moving train compartment and have failed to notice the changes happening and not happening in the tabra society. In Bengaluru recently, in a seemantham function, even widows were given "manjal-kumkumam" and the option is nowadays left to the concerned woman to accept the kumkum or politely indicate "OK, I have taken, go ahead."

Kunjuppu had perhaps written also about "mottai paaTTi" being indispensable for sumangali prarthanai in some families/areas.

I quite agree. There are more instances such messages were written in this forum. I may have failed to notice the changes; I am very glad you brought this up. In my humble opinion, this shows that our community is willing to change for the better. So, why not build reform process on these little strengths instead of trying to thrust gloomy guilt feelings and blaming the community across the board as 'backward thinking'? That's what I am on about.

Your charge is "Yes, we have a group of very learned persons, thought long and hard about religion and God. Such learned persons took part more than 18 months in a public forum spreading rational thinking and fought against backward thinking through debates and arguments. Are you guys are satisfied with your achievements?" To this I say, when these very learned persons kept away from the forum for close to two weeks why was it that the moderator resigned and we were invited to come back?Anyway, now I understand very clearly where your sympathies lie. Yes, I am not satisfied with my achievement in spreading rational thinking and against backward thinking. But I also do not need this forum for that. I can again keep away, if that is what your agenda is. But first, be upright and tell what exactly is your aim.

I notice, you are not satisfied with your acheivements. I thought so, too. No sir, you don't need this forum to spread reform amoung backward thinking persons. But, this forum would need your messages for reforming our community, for the better future of our community.

Reforms including and built from strength of a community would work much better than criticisms. That is the point I am trying to make. Getting that message across to you is my agenda. That is the aim of my recent communications with you.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

dear raghy,

Your post #2059

By last count, I have given 1833 likes. So not sure which one you mean. please point out the post, and I will review it.

Re the rest of your post addressed to me, I have nothing to say. Kindly excuse.

Thank you.

Dear Sri.Kunjuppu, Greetings.

As I said in that message, I am not concerned about someone making a judgement. I am not worried about your 'liking' that message. All I wanted to convey in that message was, sometimes you could be wrong in your judgement too. But then, you say that yourself often times, don't you? So, that message was suitable only for that instance, only for that conversation. That message is not worth analysing.

Let's move on.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Why God never got a PhD ?

God was not interested to be a Philosophiae Doctor (Doctor of Philosophy) cos He is busy being the Bheshajam for the Bhava Roginam(Doctor for the ailment of existence).

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy, I am at a loss as well, you have cited my name also in this post.

Cheers!

Dear Sri. Nara, Greetings.

It was about 12 months back or there abouts. At that instance, Sri.KRS gave an opportunity for everyone to start fresh with a clean slate; we had this junior member ( not with us anymore though) made a remark which annoyed Sri.KRS leading to some action. I was advocating on behalf of that junior member as that was the first instance after the 'clean slate policy'. That was the time yourself and Sri.Kunjuppu supported Sri. KRS, the moderator's moderation. To jog your memory, you used this Thirukkural at that instance ....பீலிபெய் சாகாடும் அச்சிறும் அப்பண்டம் ....

That incident is immaterial. I made that point in #2059 to show Sri.KRS was supported by you at certain instances. That's all.

Cheers!

 

[ozone]

Great Examples to show People only remember what others wrote

 

[praveen]

just to voice out a few things (since we are discussing about krsji) and clear a few bits...

though he may have resigned, i have not removed him as a moderator. He is still a moderator and he has the permissions to do the moderator actions.

We (the moderating team) were told that if KRS was a moderator a set of members would not come back. We discussed it amongst us and for the good of the forum, KRS resigned.

But now it seems the same set of members (if not all atleast one or two) are demanding certain things to be changed/edited/added/removed etc... In such a scenario, i have to put my foot down hard and say the following (just a repeat of what was conveyed via private message)

All of you (Members) make and made this site what it is and that does not mean a certain set of individuals can hold this forum to ransom. We gave in to an extent and i had to swallow hard to let KRS resign. But enough is enough.

If you do not like certain things (moderation, no moderation, what others are saying etc...) please leave. If you wish to take all the members, please do so. I have no issues with it.

I am not worried about what you think of me or my attitude. Call me a saint or a sinner. I am not worried..
I know who i am and what i am. I simply cannot be justifying or prove i am x or y to everyone, everytime.

I have realized, a bit late, that it is very difficult to please all the people all the time.

Thats all. I hope this is clear.

 

[renuka]

We (the moderating team) were told that if KRS was a moderator a set of members would not come back. We discussed it amongst us and for the good of the forum, KRS resigned.

Its so disheartening to read this.Wonder what some gained from this!!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

I have not been following up this thread. But I happened to read this post from Praveenji (and I have not read the preceeding posts) and felt like making my comments. My comments are in general and have not even a slightest reference to any individual.

just to voice out a few things (since we are discussing about krsji) and clear a few bits...

We (the moderating team) were told that if KRS was a moderator a set of members would not come back. We discussed it amongst us and for the good of the forum, KRS resigned.


I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THIS. WHY WOULD THE MODERATOR RESIGN BECAUSE A FEW MEMBERS ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH HIM? ISN'T IT THE CHOICE OF THE OWNER OF THE FORUM TO DECIDE WHO STAYS ON?



But now it seems the same set of members (if not all atleast one or two) are demanding certain things to be changed/edited/added/removed etc...

EXACTLY. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS. WHEN PEOPLE GET ONE THING, THEY WOULD WANT ANOTHER. GREED ONLY GROWS.

 

[renuka]

I have not been following up this thread. But I happened to read this post from Praveenji (and I have not read the preceeding posts) and felt like making my comments. My comments are in general and have not even a slightest reference to any individual.

Dear Haridas,

I agree with you.You see everyone fights for freedom of speech/freedom of writing etc but not for freedom of Moderation.

What is so wrong with the Moderator having a Veto?

I remember once I was actively participating in a thread which was actually controversial sorts and me and another member were debating and I also did feel it was getting out of hand..that thread got closed by the moderator and I accepted the decision cos I also realized my mistake in what I wrote.

BTW a few dissatisfied members do not make up the majority.

To be fair we need to take a vote to see how many people want KRS to remain the moderator?

Praveen I hope you dont mind what I suggested..I am suggesting this purely out of good will.

Silent readers also should also voice their opinions at times when situation warrants.
We cant always sit back and let others sort things out.
I dont know how many feel taking a vote is the right thing to do?

Note :I respect KRS's decision to resign but a vote will show to everyone what the majority feel.

 

[C RAVI]

Its so disheartening to read this.Wonder what some gained from this!!

SELF EGO MASSAGING...Who all wanted Shri KRS to be out for themselves to be in.

What I wonder is, if majority of members wants Shri KRS to be in else they would be out, what will be the possible situation here?

IMHO, it's really funny, childish and creepy to find such a damand and subsequent actions.

If the few who wants Shri KRS to be "OUT" for themselves to be "IN" are offering good donation and financing www.tamilbrahmins.com, then, I think, it may make some sense to please the few.

 

[renuka]

SELF EGO MASSAGING...Who all wanted Shri KRS to be out for themselves to be in.

What I wonder is, if majority of members wants Shri KRS to be in else they would be out, what will be the possible situation here?

IMHO, it's really funny, childish and creepy to find such a damand and subsequent actions.

If the few who wants Shri KRS to be "OUT" for themselves to be "IN" are offering good donation and financing www.tamilbrahmins.com, then, I think, it may make some sense to please the few.

Dear Ravi,

There is a thread for voting started by Haridas..dont miss the thread.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

A real booster dose to the already bloated EGO!

What else can it be???

Its so disheartening to read this.Wonder what some gained from this!!

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

There is a thread for voting started by Haridas..dont miss the thread.

OH OKKK!!!! Thanks for prompting me...

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. praveen,

Long long ago, you made a member "walk the plank."

It was not one person but a two-in-one person.

We were elated that the Aegean Stables were cleaned once for all by Hercules.

But Hercules went BACK on his decision and let the filth pile up again. :shocked:

You have no one to blame but yourself for the situation you find the team of moderators in.

You still feel that a "group of people who hold the Forum at ransom" are more important to the Forum than a much respected and much loved gentleman moderator.

So the people whose unwritten slogan is "My way or highway" become one-up every time you give in to their pressurising tactics.

So be prepared to face many more such situations - each one becoming more serious than the previous one. :scared:

It will be a 'fight to the finish' like that of the the gladiators.

In the words of Mr. K.R.S. you have allowed the rowdy guests
ill treat and evict a person who was part of your household.

You may become angry with me. But I am old enough to be your mother / aunt and wish you well my son!

Once you kneel down to Evil, you will never again be able to get up and stand straight on your legs. :hail:

The evil will take care of it and make sure of it! :evil:

After making a decision you MUST stick to it! You must make sure that your decision is final and binding.

If people are dissatisfied tell them to GO AND JUMP!

If they want anything tell them to KEEP WANTING!

You said Over and out!

So let it be "Over and Out" for the trouble makers

and not the trouble shooters!

just to voice out a few things (since we are discussing about krsji) and clear a few bits...

though he may have resigned, i have not removed him as a moderator. He is still a moderator and he has the permissions to do the moderator actions.

We (the moderating team) were told that if KRS was a moderator a set of members would not come back. We discussed it amongst us and for the good of the forum, KRS resigned.

But now it seems the same set of members (if not all atleast one or two) are demanding certain things to be changed/edited/added/removed etc... In such a scenario, i have to put my foot down hard and say the following (just a repeat of what was conveyed via private message)

All of you (Members) make and made this site what it is and that does not mean a certain set of individuals can hold this forum to ransom. We gave in to an extent and i had to swallow hard to let KRS resign. But enough is enough.

If you do not like certain things (moderation, no moderation, what others are saying etc...) please leave. If you wish to take all the members, please do so. I have no issues with it.

I am not worried about what you think of me or my attitude. Call me a saint or a sinner. I am not worried..
I know who i am and what i am. I simply cannot be justifying or prove i am x or y to everyone, everytime.

I have realized, a bit late, that it is very difficult to please all the people all the time.

Thats all. I hope this is clear.

 

[Raghy]

Dear Sri.Nara, Greetings.

My dear brother, ( you are the only person ever to consider me as a brother)

I was preparing a reply for your post #2085. Then I read Sri.Praveen's message in post #2016. after that I made few changes in my reply.

My dear Nara, I wish to keep this reply for about 24 hours before I post it in the forum, because I wish to sleep on that. I sincerely hope you understand. ( Kindly don't think I am ignoring you... I am not).

Cheers!

 

[saarangam]

In the words of Mr. K.R.S. you have allowed the rowdy guests
ill treat and evict a person who was part of your household.

I don't remember to have seen any post from KRS where he had referred to some members
as 'rowdy guests'.But taking VR's words to be true it is quite unbecoming of him to have used such a phrase.

 

[renuka]

I don't remember to have seen any post from KRS where he had referred to some members
as 'rowdy guests'.But taking VR's words to be true it is quite unbecoming of him to have used such a phrase.

I think you misunderstood what VR Ji wrote.Ask her for clarification please.
KRS Ji had mentioned before that everyone is a guest in the forum.

 

[Raghy]

just to voice out a few things (since we are discussing about krsji) and clear a few bits...

though he may have resigned, i have not removed him as a moderator. He is still a moderator and he has the permissions to do the moderator actions.

We (the moderating team) were told that if KRS was a moderator a set of members would not come back. We discussed it amongst us and for the good of the forum, KRS resigned.

But now it seems the same set of members (if not all atleast one or two) are demanding certain things to be changed/edited/added/removed etc... In such a scenario, i have to put my foot down hard and say the following (just a repeat of what was conveyed via private message)

All of you (Members) make and made this site what it is and that does not mean a certain set of individuals can hold this forum to ransom. We gave in to an extent and i had to swallow hard to let KRS resign. But enough is enough.

If you do not like certain things (moderation, no moderation, what others are saying etc...) please leave. If you wish to take all the members, please do so. I have no issues with it.

I am not worried about what you think of me or my attitude. Call me a saint or a sinner. I am not worried..
I know who i am and what i am. I simply cannot be justifying or prove i am x or y to everyone, everytime.

I have realized, a bit late, that it is very difficult to please all the people all the time.

Thats all. I hope this is clear.

Dear Sri.Praveen, Greetings.

This is going to be a bitter message.

Sri.KRS stood with you at the times of need. You should be standing with Sri.KRS, unconditionally.

To even say, you negotiated is shameful.

You did not start the forum anticipating few particular members to boost up the forum, did you?

Why should you negotiate with anyone with respect to what you developed?

If you stand firm, more people will join you. But if you falter, people would dump you.

Kindly get Sri.KRS to stand with you. no negotiations.

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

.... To jog your memory, you used this Thirukkural at that instance ....பீலிபெய் சாகாடும் அச்சிறும் அப்பண்டம் ....

That incident is immaterial. I made that point in #2059 to show Sri.KRS was supported by you at certain instances. That's all.

Dear brother Raghy, the memory jog didn't help, if you give the name of the member that may help, but it really does not matter. I want to make two points.

[1] From the Kural you quote it seems this member was a repeat offender.
[2] I support Shri KRS even now -- my issue was with ambiguous rules for moderation and the nature of moderation, not who the moderator is or moderation per se.

Cheers!

 

[ozone]

[2] I support Shri KRS even now -- my issue was with ambiguous rules for moderation and the nature of moderation, not who the moderator is or moderation per se.

Cheers!

With the exit of the moderator, which this author finds it very respectable and noble, the ambiguous rules stayed and did not follow the moderator. That said, this 'continue to support' means nothing.

 

[praveen]

To Raghyji, VRji and others,

Sri.KRS stood with you at the times of need. You should be standing with Sri.KRS, unconditionally.

I would be the most ungrateful person if i denied this. This is one of the main reasons why i eventually put down my foot and decided that enough is enough.

After making a decision you MUST stick to it! You must make sure that your decision is final and binding.

this time there are no changes and there will be no changes. What has been decided has been made known publically. So this decision is final now and in the future too. No member can negotiate with the moderating team. Either they like it and not. If they do not like it, the door is always open.

Let me also take this oppurtunity to publicly apologize to KRSji for what happened. I am sorry. If i had been firm and decisive a few days, this would not have happened and you would not have had to go through this. I am sorry. Plz come back to your moderating again.

Everyone learns through mistakes. I have made my mistake and i am learning through it.

 

[Nara]

....To even say, you negotiated is shameful.

Come on brother Raghy, there is no need to speculate, there was no negotiation of any kind. Choice epithets are being thrown around freely, gang, mob, hyena -- let them go for it and have their heart's content, unburden, good for everyone.

However, none of these people expressing righteous indignation have any idea what took place behind the scene. First and foremost, there was no coordinated action. To that extent I can talk only on my own behalf, which I already did in the "Why?" thread.

To make it abundantly clear, I did not demand Shri KRS step down, I repeat I did not demand Shri KRS step down. Neither do I know of anyone making such a demand.

I don't want to go into the minutia of who said what, whe, etc. All I wanted was a more objective and transparent moderation. When certain adjustments were proposed I was only glad to come back. I was surprised like anyone else when Shri KRS announced he is stepping down as moderator. As I have said before,what he did was a noble thing. Those who are now piling on with over the top crass comments are soiling it.

Shri KRS has promised me that he will be back after a short break. I wish people will soon get their anger over with and get on with posting.

Cheers!

 

[prasad1]

To Raghyji, VRji and others,



I would be the most ungrateful person if i denied this. This is one of the main reasons why i eventually put down my foot and decided that enough is enough.



this time there are no changes and there will be no changes. What has been decided has been made known publically. So this decision is final now and in the future too. No member can negotiate with the moderating team. Either they like it and not. If they do not like it, the door is always open.

Let me also take this oppurtunity to publicly apologize to KRSji for what happened. I am sorry. If i had been firm and decisive a few days, this would not have happened and you would not have had to go through this. I am sorry. Plz come back to your moderating again.

Everyone learns through mistakes. I have made my mistake and i am learning through it.

It takes a big man with lot of courage to admit this, I admire that.
Having said that, and promising to follow through is enough for me.
I wish you also had made a demand that posts insulting the majority here also should be banned. The world is what it it is and it is not due to misdeeds of brahmins alone.

 

[Raghy]

Come on brother Raghy, there is no need to speculate, there was no negotiation of any kind. Choice epithets are being thrown around freely, gang, mob, hyena -- let them go for it and have their heart's content, unburden, good for everyone.

However, none of these people expressing righteous indignation have any idea what took place behind the scene. First and foremost, there was no coordinated action. To that extent I can talk only on my own behalf, which I already did in the "Why?" thread.

To make it abundantly clear, I did not demand Shri KRS step down, I repeat I did not demand Shri KRS step down. Neither do I know of anyone making such a demand.

I don't want to go into the minutia of who said what, whe, etc. All I wanted was a more objective and transparent moderation. When certain adjustments were proposed I was only glad to come back. I was surprised like anyone else when Shri KRS announced he is stepping down as moderator. As I have said before,what he did was a noble thing. Those who are now piling on with over the top crass comments are soiling it.

Shri KRS has promised me that he will be back after a short break. I wish people will soon get their anger over with and get on with posting.

Cheers!

Dear Sri.Nara, Greetings.

I am not speculating anything. I go by Sri.Praveen's message in post #2016. You are very welcome to deny that message and tell us it is not true. Honestly, you will make me very happy.

I am not throwing any epithets.

I want you learned guys back in the forum.

I want you to, particularly you, Sri. Nara to guide the brahmin comunity through difficult periods.

I don't care if you say it is the brahmin communitiy's own fault, they are finding themselves in this dilemma.

If an elderly person commit a crime, are you going to dump his children on account of his crime?

i don't care what you said in the past. You can help. You have the capacity. Also you have an ego many times bigger than you.

You know what you need to do.

I am a simpleton.

( This post is nothing to do with Sri.KRS).

Cheers!

 

[saarangam]

I wish you also had made a demand that posts insulting the majority here also should be banned.

Does it mean posts insulting the minority should be allowed. IMHO any post insulting any member of the forum should be banned.Otherwise the moderation would be one-sided and prejudiced.