There is nothing for Praveen to comment. And there is nothing in that message that requires a moderator to intervene.
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God Exists
- Thread starter Brahin
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Sri.Sangom sir, Greetings.
I refer to your message in post #14. (from moderator resignation thread. While I was typing it, the thread was closed. So, I am posting my opinion here).
Rational thinking, analysing, thinking outside the square etc are really good. It is also very good to read or listen to a rational thinking, realised person.Let us say, the listener says..But kindly allow me to have a 10 minutes break to conduct my sandhya vandhanam; once I have done that, I am back to listen to you with the same enthusism.
Personally, I would be more than happy to take a break for 10 minutes and continue again. Importantly, I would not make any adverse comments about the Sandhya Vandhanam.
Usually I don't associate myself with Brahmin community since I don't know for sure and I don't look like one. But of late, I refer to brahmin community as 'our community'.
Our community does have persons immersed in அஞ்ஞானம் in varying degrees. Almost a case by case approach may be required. An approach applied across the board will not work. But that's what is happening in this forum. An uniform approach across the forum. Noboody is winning.
உத்தமம் is everyone is happy ; மத்திமம் is at least one side is happy; அதமம் is nobody is happy.
So, Sir, kindly ask yourself, please. Who is happy? Has anything happened in the forum that reflects any improvement in the brahmin community? for that matter any community?
Yes, we have a group of very learned persons, thought long and hard about religion and God. Such learned persons took part more than 18 months in a public forum spreading rational thinking and fought against backward thinking through debates and arguments. Are you guys are satisfied with your achievements?
If you are satisfied, I rest my case.
If you are not satisfied, can there be a fault in the approach?
Here is something about our community for us to think about..... Example #1 - She is an elderly lady, now in her early 80s. She studied until year 5. She lives in a village. Traveleled out of the village only for the sake of helping others during child birth; otherwise, she only stayed in that village. Few years back, she appointed someone to conduct pooja in the Rama temple in the village. She appointed a Mudaliar gentleman ( he was a vegitarian all his life. very soft and a good person). She only goes to that temple, only recieves 'Theertham' and 'sadari' from that gentleman only. She is an Iyengar lady.
Very impressive? not yet. She did not accept a brahmin girl who married IC to take part in Sumangali Prarthanai. ( Of course, it took about 15 minutes of persuation to change her mind).
Example #2 - A different elderly sumangali lady. Very conservative. Wouldn't eat in hotels; follows all the Madi & acharam by the book. There was a requirement for me to ask her if she would allow a brahmin girl, married IC to take part in SP along with her. Her answer was spantaneous... of course, she may attend! She is a relative, married and a sumangali... then she asked me 'I thought you are modern thinking; why are you even asking this question?'.. I mumbled some apology.
I showed the above two examples to show the ups and downs of our community. Levelling across the board may not produce desired results.
Cheers!
I refer to your message in post #14. (from moderator resignation thread. While I was typing it, the thread was closed. So, I am posting my opinion here).
Rational thinking, analysing, thinking outside the square etc are really good. It is also very good to read or listen to a rational thinking, realised person.Let us say, the listener says..But kindly allow me to have a 10 minutes break to conduct my sandhya vandhanam; once I have done that, I am back to listen to you with the same enthusism.
Personally, I would be more than happy to take a break for 10 minutes and continue again. Importantly, I would not make any adverse comments about the Sandhya Vandhanam.
Usually I don't associate myself with Brahmin community since I don't know for sure and I don't look like one. But of late, I refer to brahmin community as 'our community'.
Our community does have persons immersed in அஞ்ஞானம் in varying degrees. Almost a case by case approach may be required. An approach applied across the board will not work. But that's what is happening in this forum. An uniform approach across the forum. Noboody is winning.
உத்தமம் is everyone is happy ; மத்திமம் is at least one side is happy; அதமம் is nobody is happy.
So, Sir, kindly ask yourself, please. Who is happy? Has anything happened in the forum that reflects any improvement in the brahmin community? for that matter any community?
Yes, we have a group of very learned persons, thought long and hard about religion and God. Such learned persons took part more than 18 months in a public forum spreading rational thinking and fought against backward thinking through debates and arguments. Are you guys are satisfied with your achievements?
If you are satisfied, I rest my case.
If you are not satisfied, can there be a fault in the approach?
Here is something about our community for us to think about..... Example #1 - She is an elderly lady, now in her early 80s. She studied until year 5. She lives in a village. Traveleled out of the village only for the sake of helping others during child birth; otherwise, she only stayed in that village. Few years back, she appointed someone to conduct pooja in the Rama temple in the village. She appointed a Mudaliar gentleman ( he was a vegitarian all his life. very soft and a good person). She only goes to that temple, only recieves 'Theertham' and 'sadari' from that gentleman only. She is an Iyengar lady.
Very impressive? not yet. She did not accept a brahmin girl who married IC to take part in Sumangali Prarthanai. ( Of course, it took about 15 minutes of persuation to change her mind).
Example #2 - A different elderly sumangali lady. Very conservative. Wouldn't eat in hotels; follows all the Madi & acharam by the book. There was a requirement for me to ask her if she would allow a brahmin girl, married IC to take part in SP along with her. Her answer was spantaneous... of course, she may attend! She is a relative, married and a sumangali... then she asked me 'I thought you are modern thinking; why are you even asking this question?'.. I mumbled some apology.
I showed the above two examples to show the ups and downs of our community. Levelling across the board may not produce desired results.
Cheers!
S
ShivKC
Guest
i have an interesting thing to share here, without naming the person. a clue would be, sh.krs once admired that person as a sister, and been supporting that person, as he admitted, in his requiem.
for various other issues, few months ago, when a tussle popped up, i happened to read the archives of that person, who was once admired as an erudite, guardian of Hinduism. even K used to say often, in his typical style 'modern erudite hindu' and defender for Hinduism.
but what happened in the last 6 months, when that gangs barged in?. the same person, got brainwashed, and soon was clear to say ' no god', no puranas etc.. i can refer few posts from archives of the same person, who was once a pucca defender for Veda's, who took an U turn and said, vedas all humbug written by brahmins.
thats the brainwashing took place here, and the results were evident and quantifiable. this is where sh.KRS put his foot down, and i bet, he is right in that part of it.
thats why he felt so bad, when he was asked not to address that person by name not with any more salutation like smt'.
at this hour,i dont know, how many of those younger generation regular readers, who used to read it off line daily, got convinced by this time, that 'brahminism is all evil' and so is hinduism, as claimed by the mob..
but they won the first battle on the hunt for the blood of moderator, in the battle-of-KRS-2012AD, though not the war!
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sangom
0
Shri Raghy,
I think you have a clear agenda that it is your view which is the best and all other views are inferior. You ask somewhat thetorically, "Has anything happened in the forum that reflects any improvement in the brahmin community? for that matter any community?" And you try to project your "achievement" of including an ic married girl as sumangali in the ensuing sumangali prarthanai, as a great victory for your own approach of herding mentally weak persons with beliefs for their comforts and "reforming" them in your own majestic way!
FYI I had many months ago written about a similar incident in the house of a vaadhyaar tabra; I had occasion also to mention about a very inflexible woman who goes to Kalady for doing Sraaddham for her in-laws in order to avoid her low-caste dil from participating or even eating the "sEsham".
You see Mr. Raghy, you are stationary in a moving train compartment and have failed to notice the changes happening and not happening in the tabra society. In Bengaluru recently, in a seemantham function, even widows were given "manjal-kumkumam" and the option is nowadays left to the concerned woman to accept the kumkum or politely indicate "OK, I have taken, go ahead."
Kunjuppu had perhaps written also about "mottai paaTTi" being indispensable for sumangali prarthanai in some families/areas.
So, you see you feel you have achieved a great thing by arguing for an ic married girl and changing the views of your relative. But my own gut feeling is that womenfolk are hundred times smarter than what we duds can even imagine and your sil might have given in just so as to boost your ego.
Your charge is "Yes, we have a group of very learned persons, thought long and hard about religion and God. Such learned persons took part more than 18 months in a public forum spreading rational thinking and fought against backward thinking through debates and arguments. Are you guys are satisfied with your achievements?" To this I say, when these very learned persons kept away from the forum for close to two weeks why was it that the moderator resigned and we were invited to come back?Anyway, now I understand very clearly where your sympathies lie. Yes, I am not satisfied with my achievement in spreading rational thinking and against backward thinking. But I also do not need this forum for that. I can again keep away, if that is what your agenda is. But first, be upright and tell what exactly is your aim.
sangom
0
Shri Shiv,
You are referring to "mob", "gangs", etc. And I wonder whether Shri Praveen will once again find that there is nothing in your post which calls for his intercession! But I feel the proof of the pudding is in the eating and the very fact that in a short period of two weeks or so, the defenders of brahminism could not serve the purpose of this forum, the moderator was forced to resign of his own accord and the mob/gang was invited with Poornakumbham should sensitize your religion-numbed senses a wee-bit at least and make you understand the realities of this world where the web and mouse clicks are everything and god is only a topic of discussion, at best.
There was no battle for moderator, no war against KRS; it was only against the combining of the Church and the State (moi del'etat).
N
Nara
Guest
Dear Raghy,
This is a discussion forum. All sorts of people take part in varying degrees for a variety of reasons. Some come with specific questions on rituals, sthothram, etc. Many of us including those who have been branded as Brahmin Bashers have helped such individuals. Some come to present their literary talents and we all enjoy their contributions. Some write jokes, comment on movies and a variety of other matters. Few others write on cooking and recipes. Then there are threads that deal with controversial social issues.
Not all are interested in all the topics. I for one do not usually venture into cooking threads. But if I do, then it would be absurd of me to get my sensibilities razed if, for example, use of onion/garlic is promoted just because I don't approve of their use. If anything I can present my case against their use as best as I can. If I am not able to present a cogent case because of lack conviction or knowledge, but still insist that my faith and belief in abjuring onion and garlic must be respected to the extent of requiring other members to not to talk about onions and garlic, would be grossly unfair. I can only expect to be heard, to expect others to limit their contributions to my own level of competence and knowledge, is absurd.
Now, in General Discussion we do have controversial topics on a running basis. This fact is well known to everyone. So, if one ventures into such threads -- to do so is their right -- one must be prepared to read views with which they may vehemently disagree. In such cases they have the right to present a rebuttal. But, they do not have the right to want the views and arguments they disagree with censored. Their lack of knowledge and/or inability to make a cogent argument is not a valid excuse to claim they are being "razed". Further, this "least common denominator" standard is vague and impractical, who is to say what is "razing" what is not.
BTW, may I request you to cite a specific example of this "razing" from the forum, please give a link to the post. If what you are talking about is the general tenor of the arguments presented here, then it is only a POV. In my POV, it is the god-believers and those given to nostalgia about tradition who use disparaging language quite regularly.
Raghy, you ask what have we achieved? Let me confirm to you, I am not participating in this forum to achieve anything. It is in the most part a pleasurable time pass. So, in this respect, I say I have achieved a lot in the past 18 months. Anything more, like to change somebody's mind, would be, IMO, conceit. That can only happen on their own effort. If my presentations here help in the critical thinking of some unknown individuals, so much the better, but that is not my primary goal.
Lastly, about winning and happiness that you talk of, I hope nobody is looking to score a "win" or is seeking happiness from a mostly anonymous internet forum like ours. I for one must say I derive a lot of happiness just by having a civil argument on ideas. Of course I am unhappy when it turns uncivil and personal. But all in all, to your question "Who is happy?" my answer is I am, I am happy.
Cheers!
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N
Nara
Guest
Dear Raghy, I am at a loss as well, you have cited my name also in this post.
Cheers!
nara,
re your post #2085.
may i please add another option.
ie, if people find a thread unsavoury, boring, rude, hurtful, dull, above their heads, and such, they have the same option that i use often - skip/bypass the thread.
what we dont know wont hurt us.
believe it or not, this thread, God Exists, i have been here only so seldom, and that too, because someone referred me to come here. the original topic of this thread, is way above my comprehension.
i too am a 'weak' believer, with few fundas. i have taken what i consider valuable nuggets from the immense knowledge base of many folks here, both nasthikas and asthikas and inbetweens, and discarded the rest.
the discarding is from both groups, and inbetween groups.
faith, i have found, is very individual. i guess the same goes for anti faith, no faith, inbetween faith and weak faith.
peace.
re your post #2085.
may i please add another option.
ie, if people find a thread unsavoury, boring, rude, hurtful, dull, above their heads, and such, they have the same option that i use often - skip/bypass the thread.
what we dont know wont hurt us.
believe it or not, this thread, God Exists, i have been here only so seldom, and that too, because someone referred me to come here. the original topic of this thread, is way above my comprehension.
i too am a 'weak' believer, with few fundas. i have taken what i consider valuable nuggets from the immense knowledge base of many folks here, both nasthikas and asthikas and inbetweens, and discarded the rest.
the discarding is from both groups, and inbetween groups.
faith, i have found, is very individual. i guess the same goes for anti faith, no faith, inbetween faith and weak faith.
peace.
N
Nara
Guest
I think what Shri KRS did was a noble thing. He did so on his own, for the good of the forum as he said so himself. Shri KRS was not forced to resign by anybody. If there was any compulsion it was the circumstances precipitated by the few of us staying silent that "forced" him into this decision. I think that is what Shri Sangom sir meant.
Talk of ransom, gangs, valiant soldier is not helpful. Shri KRS himself expressed he was against forming of cliques. Let us duke it out with the power of our rational arguments, and, I say this with due respect, not with baseless speculations.
Cheers!
My dear Raji,
Actually I was worried that his health might get affected by all these happenings and Mr. K. R. S himself assured me that words do not affect him.
Apparently I was right and he did not know the strength of protests - silent or verbal made in unison.
A very good man like our own brother Dr. K. R. S!
A gentle - policeman and a gentleman-veteran
in the true sense of the words.
He got his well deserved freedom on the eve of the Republic day to do the things he really enjoys doing and remain peaceful and happy.
In many cases the true greatness of a person will be realised and felt ONLY after he quits the scene.
I will always cherish my interaction with Mr. K.R.S. and remember him as my own brother.
Dear Mr. K.R.S. Hope you will catch up doing things you have always wanted to do but could not because of the hand-cuffs that were put on the law-man's own wrists.
Take care sir! God bless you and your loved ones!
ray2:
Actually I was worried that his health might get affected by all these happenings and Mr. K. R. S himself assured me that words do not affect him.
Apparently I was right and he did not know the strength of protests - silent or verbal made in unison.
A very good man like our own brother Dr. K. R. S!
A gentle - policeman and a gentleman-veteran
in the true sense of the words.
He got his well deserved freedom on the eve of the Republic day to do the things he really enjoys doing and remain peaceful and happy.
In many cases the true greatness of a person will be realised and felt ONLY after he quits the scene.
I will always cherish my interaction with Mr. K.R.S. and remember him as my own brother.
Dear Mr. K.R.S. Hope you will catch up doing things you have always wanted to do but could not because of the hand-cuffs that were put on the law-man's own wrists.
Take care sir! God bless you and your loved ones!
ray2: Proves that words are more powerful than a sword!
Smt. V R thought Sri. K R S is 'word proof'. She may have to change her opinion!
But, I guess, now, Sri. K R S will enjoy his freedom and peace.
renuka
Well-known member
My dear Raji,
Actually I was worried that his health might get affected by all these happenings and Mr. K. R. S himself assured me that words do not affect him.
Apparently I was right and he did not know the strength of protests - silent or verbal made in unison.
A very good man like our own brother Dr. K. R. S!
A gentle - policeman and a gentleman-veteran
in the true sense of the words.
He got his well deserved freedom on the eve of the Republic day to do the things he really enjoys doing and remain peaceful and happy.
In many cases the true greatness of a person will be realised and felt ONLY after he quits the scene.
I will always cherish my interaction with Mr. K.R.S. and remember him as my own brother.
Dear Mr. K.R.S. Hope you will catch up doing things you have always wanted to do but could not because of the hand-cuffs that were put on the law-man's own wrists.
Take care sir! God bless you and your loved ones!
Dear Visa Ji,
I fully agree 100% to whatever you wrote...you see actually many are afraid of Lions so they only come in after the Lion has left the den.
But a Lion still walks proud wherever he is.
Though the collective lambs try to label the lonely lion as a lamb!
I like the strong and SILENT lion and not the vociferous stubborn lambs!
I like the strong and SILENT lion and not the vociferous stubborn lambs!
S
ShivKC
Guest
sad.. the discussions have shifted from 'God exists' to 'Moderator exists'!
lets stay tuned..
lets stay tuned..
renuka
Well-known member
Yes lets stay tuned to the latest in God exist thread..dear Shiv that was just a commercial break.
Hakuna Matata(there are no worries).
At what cost?
What is this victory worth? that leaves the forum at the mercy of a few.
The Forum WAS, the Forum Is and the Forum WILL
continue to be at the mercy of the few merciless ones! :doh:
continue to be at the mercy of the few merciless ones! :doh:
S
ShivKC
Guest
Why God never got a PhD ?
You can get your PhD working on this topic!
Why does He need it anyway - being The Omniscient already???
Why does He need it anyway - being The Omniscient already???
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