God Exists

[Nara]

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....I am not speculating anything. I go by Sri.Praveen's message in post #2016. You are very welcome to deny that message and tell us it is not true. Honestly, you will make me very happy.

Raghy, I deny there was any negotiation, at lease to my knowledge.

I am not throwing any epithets.

You are not, but look at the general atmosphere.

I want you to, particularly you, Sri. Nara to guide the brahmin comunity through difficult periods.

This is too great a burden for me to carry, but I think I am doing just exactly that to the extent of my ability and limitations.

... Also you have an ego many times bigger than you.

I bet if a poll is held on this question all of the present gloaters will agree with you.

You have any concrete ideas how to deal with many times bigger ego?

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

I have not used "..." quotation marks which means that I have NOT given the exact words spoken by Sri. K.R.S.
I just conveyed the meaning in my own words.
I can find the post # and the name of the thread - given some time.

I don't remember to have seen any post from KRS where he had referred to some members
as 'rowdy guests'.But taking VR's words to be true it is quite unbecoming of him to have used such a phrase.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

The name of the thread "Why"
post # 43.
To save you trouble I have copy pasted it here!

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

You said:
so what is to me an ideal moderator (IM)? again i wish to reiterate, this is not a judgement call on KRS or praveen, but my vision.


I can categorically state, dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji, I do not have an iota of the skills you portray for an IM. I leave it up to Sri Praveen to self assess, if he is so inclined.

I am a simpleton, lacking in all three areas you highlight. I have neither the intelligence nor the patience to be a teacher. Not armed with great language skills, nor do I have a Solomon's wisdom that imparts justice.

I look at the world very simply. As one becomes a 'crown jewel' of this Forum, it perhaps should fall upon that person to display what all you mention above. I think that the onus is on the membership to understand the rules and behave accordingly, so that the Forum can be a safe place for everyone to speak one's mind without fear. This is the fundamental job of a Moderator, IMHO. By the way, just because one is among the jewels of this Forum, in my opinion, does not give them any more 'rights' than a Newbie, because, that would not be right. I often tell folks that we are all guests here - and as you can see, some folks take umbrage at that comparison. But let me explain this:

1. One is a guest, because the host allows one in in to a household, and in this case, free of charge.
2. A guest sees other guests, some long standing for sure, but nevertheless has the same rights as those other guests.
3. Guests have the responsibility not to get in to fights with other guests.
4. Guests do not have the right to abuse other guests.
5. Guests have the responsibility to obey the house rules.
6. If a guest violates rules 3, 4, and 5 above, then they are subject to any action by the host.
7. A guest can not question the actions of the host, because by definition, a host always holds the larger interests of the household and all guests in mind.
8. A guest has no inherent right to be a guest.

So, there you go.

I am sorry. I am not an ideal moderator by your definition. I am trying to do the best I can.

By the way, this discussion reminds me of a recent conversation I have had with one of our 'crown jewels'. To my comment that I get criticized by both camps on moderation and so it shows that I am impartial, this person said that it only shows that both sides see me as partial to the other side!

Regards,
KRS

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

If no negotiations took place behind the iron curtain why would Mr. Praveen say these words?
I am sure he won't tell a lie and he has no need to!



just to voice out a few things (since we are discussing about krsji) and clear a few bits...

though he may have resigned, i have not removed him as a moderator. He is still a moderator and he has the permissions to do the moderator actions.

We (the moderating team) were told that if KRS was a moderator a set of members would not come back. We discussed it amongst us and for the good of the forum, KRS resigned.

But now it seems the same set of members (if not all atleast one or two) are demanding certain things to be changed/edited/added/removed etc... In such a scenario, i have to put my foot down hard and say the following (just a repeat of what was conveyed via private message)

All of you (Members) make and made this site what it is and that does not mean a certain set of individuals can hold this forum to ransom. We gave in to an extent and i had to swallow hard to let KRS resign. But enough is enough.

If you do not like certain things (moderation, no moderation, what others are saying etc...) please leave. If you wish to take all the members, please do so. I have no issues with it.

I am not worried about what you think of me or my attitude. Call me a saint or a sinner. I am not worried..
I know who i am and what i am. I simply cannot be justifying or prove i am x or y to everyone, everytime.

I have realized, a bit late, that it is very difficult to please all the people all the time.

Thats all. I hope this is clear.[/QUOTE]

 

[saarangam]

The name of the thread "Why"
post # 43.
To save you trouble I have copy pasted it here!/QUOTE]
Thank you for copy pasting the particular post by Sri KRS.I had read that post and I never
got an idea that KRS was referring to his antagonists in an impolite language.Now I understand that your own anger against some members got expression through such a phrase as 'rowdy guests'. If an ordinary member had posted a reply with such a phrasing
he would have been censured, his post deleted etc.But as a very honourable member of this forum with lot of achievements, you are privileged to use such words and it won't be deemed as insulting some members.Sri Prasad has written that only posts insulting the
majority should be banned , but I don't subscribe to his view.

 

[KRS]

Folks,

I have read everything.

I am meeting with Sri Praveen Ji tonight, USA Central time to clear all this up. Till then may I ask you all to please stand pat on this?

Regarding 'Negotiations', I think Sri Praveen used a word that imparts the wrong meaning to what happened. While there were discussions between Sri Praveen Ji and me, no demand that I go was ever voiced by Sri Praveen to me. If some were asking him that they won't come back unless I resign was never brought up. I proactively suggested first that in the interest of all those who have left coming back that I resign and we mutually agreed and I asked his permission to announce it (Boy, that was a mistake!) He agreed.

There are lots of not well understood information posted all around. I will clear all this up after my meeting with Sri Praveen. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS

I am also taking the opportunity to lock this thread as well as the Poll with the Moderation facility that Sri Praveen left me with, if you do not mind.

We can reopen this topic after we calrify things and I think the Poll has served it's purpose - folks had the chance to opine.

 

[KRS]

Folks,

This thread is now open. For Moderator related news, please visit the topic 'News and Announcements'. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS

 

[ShivKC]

"Has Science Buried God?"

In which Dawkins said that, while he would not accept it, a reasonably respectable case could be made for "a deistic god, a sort of god of the physicist, a god of somebody like Paul Davies, who devised the laws of physics, god the mathematician, god who put together the cosmos in the first place and then sat back and watched everything happen


like what yamaka often says, god has no control on human beings.

 

[renuka]

"Has Science Buried God?"

In which Dawkins said that, while he would not accept it, a reasonably respectable case could be made for "a deistic god, a sort of god of the physicist, a god of somebody like Paul Davies, who devised the laws of physics, god the mathematician, god who put together the cosmos in the first place and then sat back and watched everything happen


like what yamaka often says, god has no control on human beings.

Dear Shiv,

Script,Dialogue,Screenplay,Casting,Editing, Production,Direction is all by God and most important the Remote Control is in His hand.

Its just that He is letting us act for now.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

"Has Science Buried God?"

In which Dawkins said that, while he would not accept it, a reasonably respectable case could be made for "a deistic god, a sort of god of the physicist, a god of somebody like Paul Davies, who devised the laws of physics, god the mathematician, god who put together the cosmos in the first place and then sat back and watched everything happen


like what yamaka often says, god has no control on human beings.

A person who believes
NOT in the EXISTENCE of God
but in His NON-existence,
talking about His lack of control
over human beings!!! :shocked:

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

Some people keep the picture of Vasthu Purushan in the House. I came
to know through a discourse that we can keep the pictures of Gods and
Goddesses and not the Vasthu Purushan as he is a demon. Some people while
constructing the house, they keep the picture of Vasthu Purushan at the
entrance. It is learnt that it is not advisable. However, we can keep the
pumpkin (white) or some break it also.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[ShivKC]

one of the repeated question what atheists pose here is 'why there is evil/bad happening in this world, if god is really at his work? as yamaka often puts here 'why there is poverty if there god truly exists'. interestingly, they all believe in human freedom and freewill.

now my question to atheist is..

instead of repeating the same questions, can you try to formulate a solution to this problem of evil, without destryoing human freedom?

why the red-china is consistently getting ranked low in human freedom?

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

A query has been raised as to Why God is unequal. If everyone is rich,
there may not be a need for Alms. It is a valid point. God does not stop anyone
from getting an employment. It is a competitive world. Primarily education is
very much required. Many people slip into poverty for no fault of their own. It
is because some do not have adequate education owing to their family background.
Government programmes are not impressive to all. There should be a mechanism
to meet the needs of the poor as literacy level in India is still very low. If Educators
can provide literacy, free education to College Level and Business People can impart
job skill programmes to the economically weaker sections, with growing employment
opportunities, poverty can be brought down. We see in some families, because of IT
background, though parents were poor, there is a huge jump in the economical status.
God has nothing to do with the economical status or poverty. God shows the path
to every one, but people who have sources are able to shine. Children of people who
are doing Pujas in the Temple are really well off. Similarly, children of Srowthigals
are doing better. It all depends on the parent hood and family environment that decides
these days.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri ShivKC Ji,

I don't see where the 'Atheists' think that freedom is a part of their absolute belief. Free will, yes, but not freedom. Atheism, I believe directly leads to dialectic materialism, because social engineering to eradicate the perceived basic jnequality to share the fruits of one's labor in the society through limitations on individual rights come in to play.

Free will is a much different concept under both the monotheistic and the atheist traditions. Concept of free will as you know is more colored in ours.

Regards,
KRS

one of the repeated question what atheists pose here is 'why there is evil/bad happening in this world, if god is really at his work? as yamaka often puts here 'why there is poverty if there god truly exists'. interestingly, they all believe in human freedom and freewill.

now my question to atheist is..

instead of repeating the same questions, can you try to formulate a solution to this problem of evil, without destryoing human freedom?

why the red-china is consistently getting ranked low in human freedom?

 

[ashwin_ash]

Try telling a poor, homeless beggar on the streets that God exists. I am neither a firm believer, nor an unbeliever. Show me one person who's seen "God"...with tangible proof.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri ashwqin_ash,

You are asking for material verification of something that is based on faith as well as deeply personal. The concept of God is based on a person's essential question 'who are they' and 'how this Universe came to be'. A minority in this world choose not to believe God as a deity and the majority choose to believe otherwise. There are many who claim that they have 'seen' the deity, but as this is a deep;y personal human condition based on faith, this can not be proven scientifically.

I don't know what a beggar has to do with 'God'. By the way let me ask you a simple question. How do you 'prove' 'you' 'exist'?

Regards,
KRS

Try telling a poor, homeless beggar on the streets that God exists. I am neither a firm believer, nor an unbeliever. Show me one person who's seen "God"...with tangible proof.

 

[Govinda]

Try telling a poor, homeless beggar on the streets that God exists. I am neither a firm believer, nor an unbeliever.

I agree with that, one deprived of basic needs, most of them cannot focus on higher goals/ambitions.

But among those who were once rich, may have realized their fate and their past/karma which they could have played better (like expenses, careless encounters etc.). Again among these, are some who may not even realize, which is purely their own defiance to learning lessons. A homeless american , when given 10 bucks, might end up with a liquor bottle. The later case are the ones, who would be born again in poverty conditions from birth without knowledge of past to recollect. So, it is the karma/ our own desires that lead us to more/deeper ignorance.

There are also cases where people in slums are poor, hardly have a meal/day, but still religious, maintain virtues. Such people just have a test of time or other karma.

These kind of people are no different from the rich/middle classes, though have considerable resources, have obstacles ( mind/body) to understand the reality/God.

I would say, the conditions that obstruct one from realizing God (and its furtherance) are purely one's past karma. Though such conditions are visually painful, we are responsible for our own conditions (thru our own karma or thru others).

Show me one person who's seen "God"...with tangible proof.

We have umpteen scriptures with the 'coherent/consistent' details/measures of lokAs, forms/details of deities, and the rishis' worship in temples/caves etc. We have hundreds of architectural evidences that carry past the history and memory thru. generations. What more tangible proof do you need ? Could you have imagined or dreamed of any such form of deity otherwise?

 

[Nara]

....I would say, the conditions that obstruct one from realizing God (and its furtherance) are purely one's past karma. Though such conditions are visually painful, we are responsible for our own conditions (thru our own karma or thru others).

Govinda, the above encapsulates all that is wrong with what passes for Hindusim. I am not giving other religions a pass, they have their own equally, if not more, pernicious dogma that justifies/rationalizes human suffering.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Try telling a poor, homeless beggar on the streets that God exists. I am neither a firm believer, nor an unbeliever. Show me one person who's seen "God"...with tangible proof.

Sri.Ashwin, Greetings.

More often than not, a homeless beggar on the street would readily accept that God exists. Not one, I have come across many persons who claimed to have 'seen God'. I have come across hundreds of persons who claim to be seeing God in everything around them. But all these things are but only subjective.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Govinda, Greetings.

In my opinion, your message in #2142 is but judgemental. It is very hard to agree with such a message. You have just liberally used the karma theory to justify everything and sundry. I am not convinced with Karma theory. Who formulated the karma theory? We formulated 'karma theory' to suit our own whims and fancies; then we are expecting God to punish or reward as per 'our' karma theory! We even say, this process extends to many births! Come on, there should a limit to even backward thinking!

Cheers!

 

[ozone]

Dear Raghy,
Post #2145
Karma theory is one way of explaining the unexplainable or what seem irrational.
If you have a different perspective, please share. Back ward thinking onlyy happens if you blame and stay put.
Dont miss the part that says the future is in your hands.

 

[ShivKC]

T Show me one person who's seen "God"...with tangible proof.

what if tomorrow , one fine morning your motorbike wakes up and tells you' hey im the god', would you believe it.

what if a sage man in himalayas, claim himself of god?



the problem here is, what kind of tangible proof needed? that needs to be addressed

 

[Raghy]

Dear Raghy,
Post #2145
Karma theory is one way of explaining the unexplainable or what seem irrational.
If you have a different perspective, please share. Back ward thinking onlyy happens if you blame and stay put.
Dont miss the part that says the future is in your hands.

Dear Sri. Ozone, greetings.

I am more than happy to share my views after about 30+ hours. I am about to go to work for late afternoon shift, followed by an early shift tomorrow. So, kindly bear with me, please. I will share my views in detail.

Cheers!

 

[ShivKC]

equally, if not more, pernicious dogma that justifies/rationalizes human suffering.

Cheers!

instead of rejecting a view, with a stroke of pen, i would appreciate if the post is added with the solutions.


let me put it, what answer atheism has for 'human sufferings/death/illness/still born children?'.

 

[KRS]

Dear brother Professor Nara Ji,

Human suffering is real. Whether you have the Karma concept or not it is there. 'Why bad things happen to good people?' is the common refrain.

You will probably say that it is because of probability distribution. But here is a theory that seems to put together two concepts (transmigration of a soul plus the Karmic theory) to explain the above.

There are too many things that has happened in my own life that can not be either explained by the chance theory nor by the cause and effect principle.

One aspect of the Karmic theory I do not accept, because my Guru taught me not to accept is the link between Karma and Varna. I find lots of Hindus, especially those who follow the Purva Mimamsa tradition believe in this link and think that merits for next life comes from one's predominant Guna of this life. I think this is rubbish. I also think that this is what folks like you reject. And I do too.

But I believe in the Advaithic view that Ishvara is the dispenser of the fruits of ones Karma in present life and He is also responsible for slicing of the Sanchitha Karma in to Prarabdha in a way to advance one's soul towards the advancement of spirituality in the current life.

Besides, as I have told you a number of times already, I believe in the Hindu Astrology whose rules are nothing but based on the dispensing of the Prarabdha in one's life.

Regards,
KRS

Govinda, the above encapsulates all that is wrong with what passes for Hindusim. I am not giving other religions a pass, they have their own equally, if not more, pernicious dogma that justifies/rationalizes human suffering.

Cheers!