Growing live-in relationships - is it threat to india?

[prasad1]

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ha ha ha..prasad. it was always there .. the aberrations. except it was all kept under the folds (literally and figuratively too).

every family has an odd unmarried bachelor and effeminate. people dont talk about it, but the problem does not disappear. does it?

i found the traditionalist, remains a traditionalist, only till he faces the challenge of an aberration. if his daughter marries a NB, or even worse, a xtian or muslim, suddenly he becomes enlightened and speaks of universal brotherhood and all religions mean love and such stuff. till this happens, they are all fire and brimstone about tradition and purity and what not. i have seen this happen so many times, i have lost count.

everyone of us lives in some sort of a glasshouse. it is best, not to throw stones, as we end getting getting hurt and wounded ourselves. and all of them self inflicted. why?



i wonder what would happen if the mid 30s bachelors in the forum, fall suddenly in love, and are proposed to a live in arrangement. the current vehement stand against it - would they still adhere to it? or would throw it all to the winds, because of once in a lifetime chance to have had this newly found mate, and happiness. would they throw the current joy for a 'principle'? i think not. at that time, we will hear about gandharva marriage being very much 'indian'.

They would leave the forum, or change their name. LOL

 

[renuka]

Dear Ravi: Absolutely agree !. No traditional TB Girl or Boy will ever marry a person who has had a live in relationship.

Dear JK,

Overall Indian guys are the same all over the world.
They have double standards.

I would call them Global Desi..no matter where they are...their brains function the same.

For them all rules and regulations for a future wife for example..virginity etc only applies if the girl is also an Indian/Hindu.

When it comes to marry other Non Indian races..all this rule of virginity, former live in relationships wont matter.

That time they wont mind accepting anything..even if the girl had a child out of the wedlock would be accepted.

Then we will hear a sermon of a humanitarian kind from the Global Desi guys!LOL

 

[Jaykay767]

so what? if a traditionalist son or daughter marries outside, it is a big anguish for them like it has happened in the past. that son/daughter family will forever be outside of the TB circle. So just because it happens closer to home does not make it any different !! And if a traditionalist sings a different tune after that at least he is forced to change due to unfortunate circumstances but what about all the IA's who sing different tunes with different people in the same day depending on who they speak to ????

 

[prasad1]

Three famous TN Girls Vijantimala, Hemamalini, Vidya Balan all married recycled non-tamil Husbands. JayaLalitha never married her live in lover. And Tamils in this site are talking about culture, traditions etc. ​f your visible leaders and celebrities have such values, how can you talk of consistent TB values or customs.

I bet if we dig deeper in any family we will find black sheep of the family.
Brahmins as a community are no different than any group.

 

[Jaykay767]

Traditionalist TB culture is NOT defined by a narrow few. Most of us choose to follow our ancient Rishi's lock, stock & barrel Rest are free to do any leela in their lives

 

[Jaykay767]

yes, black sheeps are found everywhere & in all communities & families. But that does not change the world upside down.

Just because reality hits closer to home, does not change the world. Yes, for that traditionalist family, it is a disaster & my sympathies for them.

Every community wants to preserve its unique identity, whether it is the Brahmins, Christians, Muslims, etc.., & that unique identity is in the religion, traditions, customs, rituals we follow regularly. If everyone leaves the tradition & does lip service, it will wither away in a short time, hence the majority of us will strive to keep it going. The more we see some of the people discarding, the rest will react & double down to preserve it to eternity !!

 

[tbs]

yes, black sheeps are found everywhere & in all communities & families. But that does not change the world upside down.

Just because reality hits closer to home, does not change the world. Yes, for that traditionalist family, it is a disaster & my sympathies for them.

Every community wants to preserve its unique identity, whether it is the Brahmins, Christians, Muslims, etc.., & that unique identity is in the religion, traditions, customs, rituals we follow regularly. If everyone leaves the tradition & does lip service, it will wither away in a short time, hence the majority of us will strive to keep it going. The more we see some of the people discarding, the rest will react & double down to preserve it to eternity !!

hi

i think strong women folks preserve the cultural identity....from the birth of a child...the mother teaches the culture....women

preserve the unique identity....whether TB /hindu/jews/christian/muslim...depend of the women folks in home...the chiild

start learning religion/culture/customs/ rituals....

 

[Jaykay767]

Dear JK,

Overall Indian guys are the same all over the world.
They have double standards.

I would call them Global Desi..no matter where they are...their brains function the same.

For them all rules and regulations for a future wife for example..virginity etc only applies if the girl is also an Indian/Hindu.

When it comes to marry other Non Indian races..all this rule of virginity, former live in relationships wont matter.

That time they wont mind accepting anything..even if the girl had a child out of the wedlock would be accepted.

Then we will hear a sermon of a humanitarian kind from the Global Desi guys!LOL

Hi Renuka:

Agree, there is definitely a double standard between desi & foreign.

Ultimately, it is all about value systems. Being rooted in religion, tradition ensure our value systems are strong.
The reason I am against all this broad minded stuff is because of the definition. When I ask people what do they mean by broad minded, they start saying – you should not be so fixated with tradition, you should be open with teen boyfriend/girl friend relationship etc.. when I say, all this will slowly lead to live-in relationship, their reply is so what, it is fine. You should change to accommodate all this etc.. fine, if this leads to better life, I can agree. All the people who propagate this are either divorced, are in live-in relation, or their kids are in similar situations.
All this broad mindedness is doing is to destroy lives with kids growing in such broken homes leading to violence etc..

Cheers,

 

[sangom]

Dear Sri Sangom Ji,

You said:


With all due respect, while it is possible for the TB community in India to view the IA kids as such, your statement in my opinion is neither fair, nor in good taste.

Generalizing something like this is not fair - in fact, I must say, because of generalizations like these, there are some uneducated and jingoistic statements about IA TB community are being made by some zealot folks right here in this forum.

Besides, how does one know that a perspective bride/groom are involved in pre marital sex? Do they usually divulge such things? I very much doubt that if any IA kid has any such experience in NA, the last thing they will be agreeing to is an arranged marriage. If they do, I can assure you that it is just a very tiny minority.

If IA lads from the western world are having such experiences, I won't put it beyond anything that it is happening in India among our community too.

Regards,
KRS

Sir,

I was only reproducing the common perception and I have heard such a view being endorsed by one or two tabra women who have given birth to their children in US and have brought them up there. It seems they have to take extreme care, particularly in the case of the daughter, and yet no one can be sure - this is what that mother said about her college-going daughter.

When I write it in the Forum, may be it appears as "neither fair, nor in good taste"; but truth is truth even if hidden by a golden plate - and truth is bitter in some cases at least.

 

[prasad1]

Sir,

I was only reproducing the common perception and I have heard such a view being endorsed by one or two tabra women who have given birth to their children in US and have brought them up there. It seems they have to take extreme care, particularly in the case of the daughter, and yet no one can be sure - this is what that mother said about her college-going daughter.

When I write it in the Forum, may be it appears as "neither fair, nor in good taste"; but truth is truth even if hidden by a golden plate - and truth is bitter in some cases at least.

May be you should talk with a bigger sample group. One or two do not make a good sample size. Some of their comments may be taken out of context.
Your comments about IA, is similar to comments made by TB of TN about girls in Mumbai, or Delhi. It is flippent comments.

 

[sangom]

May be you should talk with a bigger sample group. One or two do not make a good sample size. Some of their comments may be taken out of context.
Your comments about IA, is similar to comments made by TB of TN about girls in Mumbai, or Delhi. It is flippent comments.

Per pro KRS?

May be you find the comments flippant but the very fact that it is proving inconvenient to some here, tells me that it must have some truth in it. Our proverb says "oru pāṉai coṟṟukku oru coṟu patam" (ஒரு பானை சோற்றுக்கு ஒரு சோறு பதம்), so sample size does not matter here, imo.

Who is TB, by the way?

 

[C RAVI]

Shri Sangom,


As you stated in couple of your previous posts, my cousins living in America with growing kids has the same predicament.

One said (He is running his own Radio Station) that, he will do his duty to the core to teach all the morals, right and wrong about living to his 2 kids and keep his fingers crossed. If still things go beyond his control, he would remain least bothered and let them live their life they want and he would return back to Chennai with his wife to live in peace with all his post retirement monetary planning.

The other cousin, often expresses her concern about her growing daughter's and son's future in America. Now they are little kid and she is bit free of worries BUT stated thinking about their near future.

All these people are taking extra care with carrying a sense of having a sword hanging on their head. These people take extra efforts (more than tambrams in India) in following tambra customs, culture, tradition, spiritual activities etc etc so that their kids can be influenced positively and kept in order.

These are the people who value Indian culture, family values, tambram uniqueness etc..etc though they have "physically migrated" towards a green pasture.

Though their kids turn out to be disciplined, without teen sex, girlfriend/boyfriend sexual partnership, live in relationship from time to time with multiple partners etc..etc, my cousins could sense that, still their children would lose a chance to have a disciplined tambra girl from India as their life partner.


It is ironical to find some intellectually migrated members here making personal sarcastic comments and speculation about fellow members like myself, just because they are bachelors and expressing their genuine concern about a disciplined and secured life and voting against the concept of live-in-relationships, Instead of making a general statement against traditionalists to fire back for the sake of it, the way they wish.

What to say about them? Unfortunately they are the mentors/guides of today's mentally broadened and mentally grown up girls.

 

[sarang]

So says Krishna - kulanasanam when women go astray.

hi

i think strong women folks preserve the cultural identity....from the birth of a child...the mother teaches the culture....women

preserve the unique identity....whether TB /hindu/jews/christian/muslim...depend of the women folks in home...the chiild

start learning religion/culture/customs/ rituals....

 

[sarang]

Instead of asking questions perhaps a better approach would be to define your understanding TB culture. If the answer is there is no culture, then a different approach may be necessary.

We are all self appointed leaders; the media always refer to all swamis, yogis, pracharaks, acharyas as 'self styled'. We are all kings, as our domestic democratic constitution says (nam ellorum innattu mannar). By the same token, nobody has the right or credentials to question another's self appointment.

So, Sri Sarang Ji,

Can you kindly explain to us what the TB culture is? Looks like you seem to have good grasp of it from the 14th century!

By the way, since when you were appointed to be the authority of safeguarding such a culture, if you can define it?

Regards,
KRS

 

[palindrome]

Culture is a ritual, a practice, a custom, followed by a group of people.

Every practice did not exist once upon a time, until it was created.

Culture, or a cultural point (or 'habit') is created, disintegrated, then created again, in a perpetual cycle by different people over time. It is never constant.

The biggest difference in culture 500 years ago to present day is that Women can study, work, inherit, and have the freedom to choose.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri kunjuppu Ji,

I agree. From the reasons why many of us went west, to the thinking where homosexuality, live-in relationship, sex before marriage and IC, IR (both religion and race) are being viewed, it can only come from the view point of happy ignorance to the facts and data. Many in this Forum think that all the so called 'ills' of Indian society emanate from 'aping' the lifestyle of the west. I am sure, some of these folks also believe that the endemic corruption prevailing in India that puts it on top of every most corrupt list of nations must be because of this 'western' culture.

But, I have to try to explain. There are enough problems in the western societies without adding these manufactured ones.

After having lived abroad for 30 years, and having never worked in India, I was tasked with starting our operations in Channai, which I ran as MD for 4 years. This opened a window in to our culture there again, and while I appreciated many good things, I was shocked to find how the corruption has seeped in to the thinking of even the most educated. This showed up in many work related personal decisions they took.

I also witnessed many illicit things going on at the office, some quite daring and shocking. I have witnessed what passes as normal behavior in public, is not always extended to life behind the walls of some residences.

To me, this corruption pervading there beats every other so called 'decadent' behavior in the west. Because, kids grow up seeing this behavior at all levels day in and day out, and they learn quickly how to take short cuts. During my days, it was smoking beedis and cigarettes without our family's knowledge, and progressed to eating forbidden food and now extends to having girl friend / boy friend without their knowledge. I have come across many a girl, who got ditched by the boy friend at the last minute for an arranged marriage. This type of behavior is not any western 'aping'. As we know, a majority of relationships end in marriages ultimately lead to marriages in the west - divorce rate notwithstanding.

To me this corruption everywhere in India is the underlying reason for India's social ills, not 'aping' the west. Because it robs one the most precious human gift that God has given: to be honest with oneself and to the society around. For all the past glory talk, this lack of honesty in India is rarely acknowledged, and definitely not understood from the western culture pov. We need to see all the behaviors in India starting from not keeping the public places clean to being selfish in all walks of life, emanating from this societal and individual corruption

But of course there are folks like Sri C. Ravi Ji, who seem to have this honesty. But in my view, he is in the minority, and that train of Indian honesty left the station long ago.

Regards,
KRS

KRS,

re your post #93

i find there is a widespread ignorance about life in the usa or mores or sexual attitudes in this forum. people who call themselves traditionalists, take it to understand, that the tolerance of gays or inter racial (IR) marriages in the west, as a sign of decadence.

infact, they need to know, that even 30 years ago, an IR marriage was an oddity in many parts of the USA and illegal in some. Gays even more restricted. ..and the freedoms enjoyed by these, are hard fought and won.

India, with 1.2 billion, probably numerically has more gays, has more sexual crimes and abuse. We are only starting now, to discuss these publicly. Just because it was not reported, it does not mean that it did not exist.

Even among tamil brahmins i have known gays in india. when an obviously effeminate son, does not wish to marry, what is the reason given by the parents? in the olden days, some girl used to be forced on him, while he carried his dalliance with a male lover on the side. nowadays, due to dearth of girls it is not possible.

also, i think, many in the large group of unmarried bachelors, could be gays. because the desire to mate, and to raise a family is such a basic human need. that when lives a lie to such, there is always a suspicion of homosexuality. it has happened, and i am only aghast when traditionalists condemn such things, without understanding the background, or the existence of the same in their own family or friends.

no amount of explanation, i think, will take the wool off the eyes of some. it is breath wasted

 

[prasad1]

Culture is a ritual, a practice, a custom, followed by a group of people.

Every practice did not exist once upon a time, until it was created.

Culture, or a cultural point (or 'habit') is created, disintegrated, then created again, in a perpetual cycle by different people over time. It is never constant.

The biggest difference in culture 500 years ago to present day is that Women can study, work, inherit, and have the freedom to choose.

This is a beautiful definition of culture, you should post a link in another thread on Culture.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Sri kunjuppu Ji,

I agree. From the reasons why many of us went west, to the thinking where homosexuality, live-in relationship, sex before marriage and IC, IR (both religion and race) are being viewed, it can only come from the view point of happy ignorance to the facts and data. Many in this Forum think that all the so called 'ills' of Indian society emanate from 'aping' the lifestyle of the west. I am sure, some of these folks also believe that the endemic corruption prevailing in India that puts it on top of every most corrupt list of nations must be because of this 'western' culture.

But, I have to try to explain. There are enough problems in the western societies without adding these manufactured ones.

After having lived abroad for 30 years, and having never worked in India, I was tasked with starting our operations in Channai, which I ran as MD for 4 years. This opened a window in to our culture there again, and while I appreciated many good things, I was shocked to find how the corruption has seeped in to the thinking of even the most educated. This showed up in many work related personal decisions they took.

I also witnessed many illicit things going on at the office, some quite daring and shocking. I have witnessed what passes as normal behavior in public, is not always extended to life behind the walls of some residences.

To me, this corruption pervading there beats every other so called 'decadent' behavior in the west. Because, kids grow up seeing this behavior at all levels day in and day out, and they learn quickly how to take short cuts. During my days, it was smoking beedis and cigarettes without our family's knowledge, and progressed to eating forbidden food and now extends to having girl friend / boy friend without their knowledge. I have come across many a girl, who got ditched by the boy friend at the last minute for an arranged marriage. This type of behavior is not any western 'aping'. As we know, a majority of relationships end in marriages ultimately lead to marriages in the west - divorce rate notwithstanding.

To me this corruption everywhere in India is the underlying reason for India's social ills, not 'aping' the west. Because it robs one the most precious human gift that God has given: to be honest with oneself and to the society around. For all the past glory talk, this lack of honesty in India is rarely acknowledged, and definitely not understood from the western culture pov. We need to see all the behaviors in India starting from not keeping the public places clean to being selfish in all walks of life.

But of course there are folks like Sri C. Ravi Ji, who seem to have this honesty. But in my view, he is in the minority, and that train of Indian honesty left the station long ago.

Regards,
KRS

I am being facetious.
You an Indian Americam (IA) how dare you point out the truth about Us pious, drenched in Tamil Brahmin Culture.
The day you left India you lost the right to tell us anything. You do not have culture as only we have the exclusive right to Culture (what ever that means).


Your point is well made but the people who need to listen have closed their ears.

 

[kunjuppu]

This is a beautiful definition of culture, you should post a link in another thread on Culture.

i would agree with you 100%.. the only doubt i have is, palindrome gives 500 years (or implies) of female opportunities and progress.

i would personally put it as less than 50 years (or even less) for indian woman, and there are groups within india, who would not even know how to spell p-r-o-g-r-e-s-s.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Sangom Ji Sir,

After I got married to my Jewish American wife, we went to India to get the blessings of my elders. My uncle, who was very orthodox, and whose household I grew up in, challenged my wife on American life in general and Jewish life in particular. He had a group of friends who fed him information about America and life there in their nightly 'Arattu Thinnai' sessions, from information gathered from various newspapers and magazines. So, when she stated certain things that were based on real life experience of hers, that were contrary to his notion of what American life should be, he discounted her version.

You remind me very much of that conversation. Life long experiences of some folks in this Forum from North America does not matter at all. But a 'general feeling' from the community about the NA IA TB lads matters; without any concrete data. Of course a couple of moms' pronouncements that their own daughters are sleeping around (I have not in my life has come across normal moms who would say such things about their own daughters!) is 'veda vakyam'. And from this, one can then generalize that all or most of the IA TB kids are being trained 'in schools' to sleep around. Unfortunately, this is 'Truth' seeking to prove a wrong assumption. Thanks.

Regards,
KRS

Sir,

I was only reproducing the common perception and I have heard such a view being endorsed by one or two tabra women who have given birth to their children in US and have brought them up there. It seems they have to take extreme care, particularly in the case of the daughter, and yet no one can be sure - this is what that mother said about her college-going daughter.

When I write it in the Forum, may be it appears as "neither fair, nor in good taste"; but truth is truth even if hidden by a golden plate - and truth is bitter in some cases at least.

 

[kunjuppu]

to add to krs's post #120

the IA kids of the immigrant parents are some of the very hard driven and highest achievers of usa. as a group, they have been acknowledged by both the major parties in the u.s. as a preciious resource of the u.s.

this appears right across the board..i was so overwhelmed, when i went to a friend's house in the u.s., and there hung a plaque - a motion from the pennsylvania legislature, unanimous, that this man's son, is a credit to the state and mighty source of pride - and signed by the Governor. and this kid was 18 years old then

there are countless such stories. up in canada, where our kids are much more 'normal', no one likes to hear about these usa high achievers

all this does not come with booze, sleeping around and vagabond behaviour. it takes focus, hard work, motivation and above all a mad obsession to succeed - which the usa environment successfully builds in the children of our indian immigrants. no amount of parental discipline or stricture achieve this. it is self driven.

so i think, sangom and folks, would suggest, you ante up your opinions of IAs. the term ABCD is more an indian wishful thinking. today's IAs are among the leaders of usa tomorrow.

 

[palindrome]

i would agree with you 100%.. the only doubt i have is, palindrome gives 500 years (or implies) of female opportunities and progress.

i would personally put it as less than 50 years (or even less) for indian woman, and there are groups within india, who would not even know how to spell p-r-o-g-r-e-s-s.

I agree sir, it should be 50 years or less.

Big difference between women in my grandparents time, and my time.

My generation must thank women in my parents generation for that. Women currently in their 60s and 70s were mostly the trend setters. :thumb: So, bravo to women born in 1930s, 1940s and 1950s and a big THANK YOU to them :grouphug:

 

[palindrome]

Dear Sri kunjuppu Ji,

I agree. From the reasons why many of us went west, to the thinking where homosexuality, live-in relationship, sex before marriage and IC, IR (both religion and race) are being viewed, it can only come from the view point of happy ignorance to the facts and data. Many in this Forum think that all the so called 'ills' of Indian society emanate from 'aping' the lifestyle of the west. I am sure, some of these folks also believe that the endemic corruption prevailing in India that puts it on top of every most corrupt list of nations must be because of this 'western' culture.

But, I have to try to explain. There are enough problems in the western societies without adding these manufactured ones.

After having lived abroad for 30 years, and having never worked in India, I was tasked with starting our operations in Channai, which I ran as MD for 4 years. This opened a window in to our culture there again, and while I appreciated many good things, I was shocked to find how the corruption has seeped in to the thinking of even the most educated. This showed up in many work related personal decisions they took.

I also witnessed many illicit things going on at the office, some quite daring and shocking. I have witnessed what passes as normal behavior in public, is not always extended to life behind the walls of some residences.

To me, this corruption pervading there beats every other so called 'decadent' behavior in the west. Because, kids grow up seeing this behavior at all levels day in and day out, and they learn quickly how to take short cuts. During my days, it was smoking beedis and cigarettes without our family's knowledge, and progressed to eating forbidden food and now extends to having girl friend / boy friend without their knowledge. I have come across many a girl, who got ditched by the boy friend at the last minute for an arranged marriage. This type of behavior is not any western 'aping'. As we know, a majority of relationships end in marriages ultimately lead to marriages in the west - divorce rate notwithstanding.

To me this corruption everywhere in India is the underlying reason for India's social ills, not 'aping' the west. Because it robs one the most precious human gift that God has given: to be honest with oneself and to the society around. For all the past glory talk, this lack of honesty in India is rarely acknowledged, and definitely not understood from the western culture pov. We need to see all the behaviors in India starting from not keeping the public places clean to being selfish in all walks of life.

But of course there are folks like Sri C. Ravi Ji, who seem to have this honesty. But in my view, he is in the minority, and that train of Indian honesty left the station long ago.

Regards,
KRS

Very nicely put sir.

Years ago, i lived in a hostel. Girls came from various backgrounds. Money was not a criteria to decide morality. There were conservative people from rich families, and also progressive people from rich families.

Many females had a boyfriend (some also changed the boyfriend, often if a richer guy liked the female he got her). Some females also did things prohibited before marriage with the boyfriend; though getting pregnant was rarest of rare (maybe 2 or 3 incidents maximum per year).

I found it kinda ironical that females from conservative families (those who wore dupatta so perfectly well) were almost always the first to go flying. Maybe staying in a hostel meant freedom from repressive parents. These girls wud change so quickly. Some progressed to miniskirts in a few months time, whilst some remained traditionally clothed and yet had a boyfriend unknown to others until the secret somehow got out.

The secret got out in so many ways, some wud miss their period (more out of severe anxiety after the first time than actually getting pregnant), some wud be spotted buying contraceptive stuff, some wud get a letter which a prying roommate would spy on and find out the secret, and so on.

On the other hand, girls from progressive families, were not keen to cross the lakshman rekha in any relationship (the concept of 'fun' and 'freedom' had a different context to these (sensible) females). Some did not even bother to have a boyfriend. They did not care for that peer pressure value.

We also got to hear stories from the boys' hostels. Closet gays was the most whispered topic, almost with a kinda shock one cud not imagine. Even young guys (who were not gay) wud blame western influence for this. A couple rumored to be gay wud loose friends almost overnight. Other guys did not like being seen in their company. Unless a well known casanova, most guys did not want to be mistaken for a gay.

Am not really sure why people deride and blame western influence for tolerance of gays. I do not think everything (was) or is perfect in the world of elderly people. The ancient world seems pretty much tolerant to me. Can never understand, why this tendency to blame west for anything and everything which one assumes is "not there" amongst us.

As you say so rightly about being honest, i feel, we must applaud gays for being honest with their lives, if they chose to live with their gay partner, instead of ruining a girl's life.

Also, looking at how females from conservative families behaved, must say, i have many doubts about conservatism, traditionalism -- what these "really" think they are upholding?

 

[prasad1]

Am not really sure why people deride and blame western influence for tolerance of gays. I do not think everything (was) or is perfect in the world of elderly people. The ancient world seems pretty much tolerant to me. Can never understand, why this tendency to blame west for anything and everything which one assumes is "not there" amongst us.

Are you talking about us? We the pious upholder of Hindu Brahmins Culture.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Ravi Ji,

Pardon me for interrupting. But you made certain observations that reinforce my points.

The key to happy life are solid values. There are certain values one inculcates in one's children: Being true to oneself, honesty, loyalty, commitment, respect for another human being, not going after money, accomplishments, religious and spiritual truths, not being selfish and not hurting, using another human being.

These are universal values, not just taught by TB community, even though, the customs that reinforce these values differ from culture to culture.

Both my boys are married and they have always told me that they wanted the type of marriage their mother and I had. They both lead very happy lives with the above stated values we taught them. Like your cousin says, whether by traditional customs are not, these are the ever enduring values that make the world a happy place. This is all a parent can and should do. Some do it using traditional culture ways, others do it combining both the secular/spiritual ways. One does not own one's child. One's child is a gift, given to one for safe keeping, and making them successful in whatever culture they live in, and that is the job of the parents.

So, within this context, I feel sorry for your cousins who seem to feel that the proverbial 'Damocles sword' swinging over their head. Seems to me your first cousin's planned retirement in India, even though he went abroad on his free will and raised children there, is a personal dislike of the western culture, which some folks who live here do have. But no one, if I am correct, has forced him to live here. If he had such concerns when he had his children, the proper thing to do was to come back to India. Now that he has stayed and his children having grown up here, it seems to me, and again don't take this harsh, he is going to live far away from his children's company. Don't you think, from his children's pov, this may be viewed as selfish?

There are lots of TB folks in NA, far that matter from other Indian sub groups as well, who do not want to integrate in to the NA society. I have several examples of family and friends here, who socially do not integrate with the society, have only friends of similar liking from their sub groups, who in general teach their kids all the surface cultural things, without teaching them the values. Some of those kids are the ones who tend to go wild when they see a sliver of day light of freedom when they get to college. I think it behooves these types of parents not to live here with such an attitude about this society. Such folks are not doing themselves or their kids any good. Besides, the only reason for them to be here is purely materialistic.

I hope, I am not the one you refer to as guiding the girls the 'wrong' way. I am stating what it is, not what should be, while some folks here are stating an ideal based on what should be.

But if you are referring to me also, no issues. I can only state the obvious.

Regards,
KRS

Shri Sangom,


As you stated in couple of your previous posts, my cousins living in America with growing kids has the same predicament.

One said (He is running his own Radio Station) that, he will do his duty to the core to teach all the morals, right and wrong about living to his 2 kids and keep his fingers crossed. If still things go beyond his control, he would remain least bothered and let them live their life they want and he would return back to Chennai with his wife to live in peace with all his post retirement monetary planning.

The other cousin, often expresses her concern about her growing daughter's and son's future in America. Now they are little kid and she is bit free of worries BUT stated thinking about their near future.

All these people are taking extra care with carrying a sense of having a sword hanging on their head. These people take extra efforts (more than tambrams in India) in following tambra customs, culture, tradition, spiritual activities etc etc so that their kids can be influenced positively and kept in order.

These are the people who value Indian culture, family values, tambram uniqueness etc..etc though they have "physically migrated" towards a green pasture.

Though their kids turn out to be disciplined, without teen sex, girlfriend/boyfriend sexual partnership, live in relationship from time to time with multiple partners etc..etc, my cousins could sense that, still their children would lose a chance to have a disciplined tambra girl from India as their life partner.


It is ironical to find some intellectually migrated members here making personal sarcastic comments and speculation about fellow members like myself, just because they are bachelors and expressing their genuine concern about a disciplined and secured life and voting against the concept of live-in-relationships, Instead of making a general statement against traditionalists to fire back for the sake of it, the way they wish.

What to say about them? Unfortunately they are the mentors/guides of today's mentally broadened and mentally grown up girls.