Vaagmi
0
Renukaji,
That was a brilliant presentation. I agree with you hundred percent.
apple brings with it the paradise that was lost. any thoughts?
-
This forum contains old posts that have been closed. New threads and replies may not be made here. Please navigate to the relevant forum to create a new thread or post a reply.
-
Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.
- Status
Renukaji,
That was a brilliant presentation. I agree with you hundred percent.
apple brings with it the paradise that was lost. any thoughts?
Auh Ji,
Do you have answers to my questions in Posting No.1 ??
Myself and other members are perhaps waiting for 10 days and it is going to be more than 260 postings.........
How long the wait will be....?
This thead seems to be again hijacked to topics touching from 'Kudumi' to now Kula, Guna, Varna, Jathi, etc
I am just exploring the feasibility of steering this thread safely to achieve its desired goal.
And I have a senior member here coming often and asking for 'Solutions' like that of 'Quick-fix' available in Hardware stores.
P.S: BTW what is the difference between 'listening mood' and 'mute mode'?
Dear sir, all these are responses to your OP.
By community I am sure you meant all humanity. The solution is really very simple - always act, to the best of your ability, in a manner that inflicts the least harm.
Veteterans above,( Kala bhairavi / Dr Renuka / Tks / Vaagmi have their own way of writing in every topic so elaborately ( now it is about Veg/non veg =====it is so taxing for the other members to take part because we earnestly feel as to whether Such a long/ Long Essays on such Topic is useful for the majority ? you have even touched U.S in your anxeity. totally ignoring the Majority How long such Topics of not directly concerned will go on ?
Please all veterans start pondering the Goal of this Tamil Brahmin forum & please Discuss within yourselves &choose a few workable Topics For a practical solution for all brahmins so that simple persons are not left out to contribute to the community as such ? Some of you should think of closing the Subject when you ( veterans ) feel that too much of essay like writing will not be tolerated by the majority as is never ending as few of you turn around & even accuse each other ( anything excess is POISON.
please do not hi jack the forum & leave room for the Rest to contribute ? You also know the Tamil Provreb " mvallvanukku---- Vallavavan ====== Vaiyahaththil Undu
Rishikesan
Please all veterans start pondering the Goal of this Tamil Brahmin forum & please Discuss within yourselves &choose a few workable Topics For a practical solution for all brahmins so that simple persons are not left out to contribute to the community as such ? Some of you should think of closing the Subject when you ( veterans ) feel that too much of essay like writing will not be tolerated by the majority as is never ending as few of you turn around & even accuse each other ( anything excess is POISON.
please do not hi jack the forum & leave room for the Rest to contribute ? You also know the Tamil Provreb " mvallvanukku---- Vallavavan ====== Vaiyahaththil Undu
Rishikesan
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Rishikeshan Ji,
Veterans do not stop others from contributing.
Anyone who wants to start a thread is welcomed to do so and freedom of expression of anyone should not be curbed as long civility is maintained.
Its not compulsory for anyone to read every post that might be running into pages long..they can always skip such posts.
Its not entirely accurate to feel that simple people would shy away from threads..simple or complex..everyone is free to participate.
About POISON..there is nothing to worry..its Biodegradable and immunity is eventually formed.
renuka
Well-known member
Probably you were/are inattentive?
When Sunil Dutt was informed about drinking habits of Sanjay Dutt (even before the launch of his first film), Sunil Dutt boasted back:
"jaat daa puttar hai, sharaab toh piyegaa hee"
And here is a video for you to enjoy. swag jatt Da:
http://www.lyricswala.com/2015/01/swag-jatt-da-ranjit-bawa.html
renuka
Well-known member
???
I thought Sanjay Dutt was a Mohyal.
His mother Nargis who everyone thought was a full breed muslim actually had a Mohyal Hindu father who converted to Islam to marry her mum.
Mohyals are supposed to be a group of Brahmins who voluntarily left the Brahmin fold to serve as warriors.
So how is The Dutt a Jaat?
Unless he is Varna Mohyal and Guna Jaat?LOL
Wikipedia confirms what you have written Doc. But I remember having it read what I wrote in some film mag. May be the author had made the posting after two large Patiala pegs?
Veteterans above,( Kala bhairavi / Dr Renuka / Tks / Vaagmi have their own way of writing in every topic so elaborately ( now it is about Veg/non veg =====it is so taxing for the other members to take part because we earnestly feel as to whether Such a long/ Long Essays on such Topic is useful for the majority ? you have even touched U.S in your anxiety. totally ignoring the Majority How long such Topics of not directly concerned will go on ?
Please all veterans start pondering the Goal of this Tamil Brahmin forum & please Discuss within yourselves &choose a few workable Topics For a practical solution for all brahmins so that simple persons are not left out to contribute to the community as such ? Some of you should think of closing the Subject when you ( veterans ) feel that too much of essay like writing will not be tolerated by the majority as is never ending as few of you turn around & even accuse each other ( anything excess is POISON.
please do not hi jack the forum & leave room for the Rest to contribute ? You also know the Tamil Provreb " mvallvanukku---- Vallavavan ====== Vaiyahaththil Undu
Rishikesan
Please all veterans start pondering the Goal of this Tamil Brahmin forum & please Discuss within yourselves &choose a few workable Topics For a practical solution for all brahmins so that simple persons are not left out to contribute to the community as such ? Some of you should think of closing the Subject when you ( veterans ) feel that too much of essay like writing will not be tolerated by the majority as is never ending as few of you turn around & even accuse each other ( anything excess is POISON.
please do not hi jack the forum & leave room for the Rest to contribute ? You also know the Tamil Provreb " mvallvanukku---- Vallavavan ====== Vaiyahaththil Undu
Rishikesan
C
CHANDRU1849
Guest
Is Guna based on caste or four different sects? When we have Brahmana Guna, naturally there should be Pshatriya Guna, Vaisya Guna etc. Castes may be later date creation.
Do we have any separate gunas within Brahmana Guna for different castes and sub sects - Vathima Guna, Vadama Guna, Tenkalai Guna, Vadakalai Guna etc?
prasad1
Active member
One of the world’s largest populations of tigers exists not in the wild—but in captivity in the United States. With an estimated 5,000 tigers, the U.S. captive tiger population exceeds the approximately 3,200 tigers in the wild.
Habitat loss and fragmentation is another important reason why tigers disappearing. Without a safe and healthy home for tigers and their prey, neither can survive in the wild. Humans are rapidly encroaching into wilderness areas that were once ruled exclusively by the tiger. In India, which is home to over one third of the world's wild tigers, the human population has exceeded one billion inhabitants. As tigers compete with humans for land, they find less and less to eat.
There is corollary. Brahmins just by quoting their so called "superiority", are not going to maintain their life style of 15th century. World is moving on.
Brahmins have ventured away from their profession, their services are not in demand.
What ever is worth preserving, every effort should be made to preserve it.
I agree things like vegetarianism, that which can be explained should be preserved. That is not by any gene.
Last edited:
But we do hear about them.
Please go through this thread completely.
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/showthread.php?t=30554
You will learn that Jaats have "fearless attitude", that Jaats are "brave" and as a consequence we should have more Jaat IAS officers and Jaat PM!
prasad1
Active member
கால பைரவன்;342939 said:
There is a tendency worldwide to profile a group of people on the basis of religion, race, color, country of origin etc. Most of the time time they are wrong.
Just because a table has 4 legs and a cow has 4 legs, we can not say a cow is a table, similarly the traits that are attributed to a group is not genetics.
tks
0
1. There is nothing to prove. My suggestion is to get the ideas published in a peer reviewed and reputed Science journal for starters. Then there can be even an attempt to call what is presented as Science. Anyone can interpret an existing work of Science and think it favors their imaginations (e.g., recent Indian Express article that some Cornell Research suggests Vegetarianism can cause cancer until some of the original authors corrected this view). Unless published calling it Science in forum like this every so often is not proper. It is just an imagination. The onus on such things on the person proposing.
2. B. Gita teaches timeless truths. These principles are not affected by some Scientific discovery or a new jargon. In fact correct understanding of what is taught will show that Boyd's findings are not in contradiction to anything in any of the scriptures. It does not lead to the conclusion presented. Doing so is disservice to the scriptures.
B. Gita 4.13 clearly states the definition of Varna that it is not birth based but Guna & Karma based . Since it is a well established scripture there is not much more to say , other than for people to "perceive" what is taught.
3. The cart in front of a horse is a metaphor that need to be perceived correctly to understand the fallacy of thoughts presented.
4. If the original intent of Sri VB to find concrete items, it is better to focus on those instead of imaginations that will only taint the entire effort.
tks
0
There are only FOUR Varnas based on Guna composition.
Because the words like Brhamana, Kshatriya, Vaisya, Shudra are used to show both Varna classifications AND in other context birth based Jaathi classifications.
To remove such confusions and present a context, there are usage like Varna Kshatriya etc only to inform the reader that the word Kshatriya used is not referring to a birth category but one that has to do with Guna.
Therefore Guna or Varna can ONLY be used as qualifier to four words: Brahmana, Kshatriya, Vaisya and Shudra.
When there is no qualifier, the usage of the word means it refers to Jaathi or Kula unless the context of usage makes it clear
Therefore it would be meaningless to call Guna Vatthima or Vathima Guna etc
There are several thousands of caste classification to which words like Guna cannot apply.
There are always (past, present and future) only Four Varnas which are not based on birth.
tks
0
Sri VB, I will lessen my engagement with this thread at this point.
I think there are enough thoughts to begin an action plan perhaps in a more private setting.
I would stay away from divisive imaginations in this thread, in order to assure a chance to succeed.
Please let me know if I can help later .
Thanks
I think there are enough thoughts to begin an action plan perhaps in a more private setting.
I would stay away from divisive imaginations in this thread, in order to assure a chance to succeed.
Please let me know if I can help later .
Thanks
OP
OP
V.Balasubramani
Guest
[h=2]Sir,[/h][h=2]I sincerely thank you and all other members so much for all your/their valued contributions in this Forum and in this thread in particular.[/h][h=2]Like few others, your postings are very informative and certainly helps one to enrich his knowledge on the subject.[/h][h=2]Having debate on every point is nice, so that we get treasure of information and by the way I alo find that most of the postings are within the lakshman rekha without resorting to personal attack. [/h][h=2]IMO, this thread is doing fine because all participants are really bit serious except for a few postings which are prone to derail the thread which is inevitable.[/h][h=2]Now, may I take the privilege and liberty to ask you and others to contribute your/their considered opinion on Chapter 14.27 of Bhagavat Gita (though it may not be relevant to the OP).
This act of mine is aimed at only just to have a clear understanding, I mean in the academic interest certainly not to defend or support any one’s stand, opinion, etc.
Shall I say in search of truth?
Thanks
P.S: I yearn for your and others active participation. Success of the thread is not my concern and my only concern is bringing about the best and valuable information from most of the elite and erudite members. The thread's success lies in bring more debatable information which prove to be food for thought especiallly for a few who starve for knowledge.[/h]
Vaagmi
0
None of the points raised by me have been answered. Only the known position has been repeated and restated in a different way.
Scriptures can be interpreted by individuals as they perceive and that is what has been done.
BG is quoted here out of context. We are speaking here about groups of peoplein the present times, who remain a physically identifiable birth based group despite inflow and outflow from the group. BG is not about that. BG speaks about qualities of people in a general way and it is about the entire population. And that is a big difference.
However hard we may try, we can not get away from the fact that brahmins are a birth based identifiable distinct group with members having different gunas. The point to understand is that this group has most of its members in the sattva guna state most of the time (as a matter of choice) because of the impact of environment over centuries and the resultant influence on the genes. And so they have frequent occurrence of brilliance among them disproportionate to their numbers and their contribution to the welfare of the society is substantial and incomparable with the contribution by other such identifiable groups. This is said as a mere statement of fact. If someone would like to challenge it we can have a discussion on that. It is said without an iota of any superiority complex, demand for a 5 star treatment, or expectations. We are confident that we can take care of ourselves with our positive traits. We do not plead for indulgence.
I do not make position statements about myself like I read posts selectively, i put people frequently into the "ignored" status, I have a bunch of notes and refer to them to answer questions here etc., etc.,. I will continue to present my views as long as others come here with their views.
Scriptures speak eternal truth. Agreed. They are interpreted by people with whatever equipment they have. Period.
Last edited:
renuka
Well-known member
Originally Posted by tks
B. Gita 4.13 clearly states the definition of Varna that it is not birth based but Guna & Karma based .
I somehow wonder what this statement actually meant.
Cos if its not by birth but based on Guna/Karma there would be utter chaos in society becos in a family itself there would be different Varna for each child cos not all siblings behave alike.
BTW is there anyone here in forum willing to admit that they are only Varna Brahmana but not Guna Brahmana?
According to me the original classification of a brAhmaNa was purely varNa based. But as the time progressed and profession became hereditary it came about more and more being associated with birth.
It is very common to find in North Indian brAhmins called "paNdit", as they were hereditary priests, though he may be a scavanger by profession in the modern day. The people at large presume that the title 'paNdit" is conferred upon because of birth status and is an honor bestowed because of birth.
The truth comes out of the bag when the same people who call him 'paNdit" would not call the scavenger-brAhmin for conducting any religious function, but would only call a person in priestly position.
Vaagmi
0
Every one will claim he is a guna brahmana if there is advantage in doing that. Suppose for all guna brahmnas there is going to be a 20 % reservation in all jobs every one(including Naidus and pillais and Mudaliyars) will all become guna brahmana over night. And Government will have a serious problem in its hand in determin ing whether some one is a guna brahmana because there are no metrics to do that. It will be purely on the basis of self declaration "solemnly".
It is more likely that you may not have had me in mind when you meant about success of the thread, and, as is my wont, here goes another ramble.
There are some who think that Krishna, of the BG, says that varna is by nature (sva-bhaava), and this can only mean "guna" (not the kamal one).
Yudhishtra, during his reply to the yaksha (and also to nahusha, I think) says that a brahmin is by deeds alone.
Surprisingly, the same yudhishtra says in the udyoga parva of the mh (link is here http://sacred-texts.com/hin/m05/m05028.htm ) that
Surprisingly, we see the ball bounce both ways. Some might say that the "by nature varna" was a later addition. Some other might say that the "by birth varna" is a later addition. But whatever it may be there is no tenable logic to support the "by nature varna" and perhaps it because of this reason, if it had been in vogue during some remote period in time (just for argument's sake), it might be taken over by the "by birth varna".
We see that even a criminal sometimes, is remorseful and repents for his past acts, and turns over into a new lear. We see that even a pious and god-fearing individual give in to rage and commit acts of wrong-doing. There is something now called split personality, multiple personality etc. We see people give into utmost grief and anger when their children do not act as per their wish (perhaps an ic or ir marriage!).
If we were to reflect on this haphazard manner in which we are prone to act, it makes no meaning at all, to fix ourself into a particular character. It does not, by any stretch of logic, practical for a person to say that he is a kshatriya yesterday, brahmana today and vysya tomorrow. What purpose does it really serve? What do we gain by saying that one is a shudra or a brahmana?
This "guna" or "nature" of an individual - how does it really manifest? In management, in earlier times, there was a belief that leaders were born. That there were certain traits that could only be passed through genes. That suited the thinking of the society at that point in time. Later, it was changed to "leaders are made" - this marks the shift in thinking of the society. And it is pertinent to note that qualities are imbibed according to upbringing, knowledge, and peer group influences.
The bottomline is that, let us try to cultivate and bring out the good in us, without being tainted by the ideology of a "varna".
Last edited:
This is similar to saying that a group "x" has been enslaving and riding over group "y" for the last couple of thousands of years and as a result of the impact of that "environment" and the resultant influence on the genes, currently, group "x" is born with a superior natural administrative trait, and group "y" is born with an inferior slave-mentality trait.
- Status
Share this page
Share this page
Latest ads
-
-
Free [Bride Wanted] TAMIL BRAHMIN VADAMA BRIDE WANTEDMust to be willing to relocate to Bengaluru Must be willing to accommodate joint family
- self today (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires
-
Wanted [Cook Wanted] Wanted cook for Home at Gandhipuram Coimbatore. Decent Salary offeredHi, we need a female Brahmin cook for home ( 5 members family) at Coimbatore. Morning and...
- gchitra (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
-
Wanted [Cook Wanted] Vegetarian tamil cookBangalore Bannerghatta Main road
- nschander (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires
-
For rent [Property for Rent] Apartment in Coimbatore:Gandhipuram - Prime LocationGandhipuram - 2 BHK, 1100 Square Feet apartment for rent, 2 bathrooms Features 700 meters from...
- k_lakshmi_narayanan (+0 /0 /-0)
- Updated:
- Expires