How to retain our left out community???

[auh]

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Yes...agreed..we only have had Apsaras lusting after human males and cursing them if they do not respond..Arjuna got cursed for not romancing an Apsara.

Doc, can any devout hindu accept a picture of a lakshmi reclining on the adisesha and narayana massaging her legs? Forget the "valamarbinil vaazhukindra mangayum pallaandu".

 

[renuka]

Doc, can any devout hindu accept a picture of a lakshmi reclining on the adisesha and narayana massaging her legs? Forget the "valamarbinil vaazhukindra mangayum pallaandu".

May be Vaishnavas might not be able to!LOL

But Lord Shiva is quite a gender equal God..besides being Ardhanareeswhara...Kali has trampled Him before!

 

[venkateshwars]

Hi, a good post. The fact that we have changed from the path laid down is true. But, this is cope up with the be changing times in the environment that is getting more competitive by the day.
However, this can't be the reason for the shrinking community values. At the same time that we are upgrading ourselves, there is a clear need to maintain (or even upgrade) our knowledge on our sasthras and scriptures which lay down a clear path or way of life for our community.
Some suggestions from my side
1. We need to get together in creating sessions / discourses from our dharmashastras, today discourses are repetitive with often heard stories. These sessions should be by experts on the importance of Nityakarmas and Do's and Dont's prescribed.
2. Can we get together and create part time Veda classes.
3. Can we proudly introduce ourselves as Tambrams to all, I see a lot of hesitation from our fellow people in doing so. Whenever given an opportunity, I surely make it a point to introduce myself as a Tambram. Trust me, when you say you are a Tambram, you are respected in other parts of the country.
4. Can we make it a point to ensure that we do not touch Non Veg food? This is a clear deviation and we become target for comedy, people say N.V. has become costly cos of Brahmins taking to it.
5. Can we get together and work towards better education for Tambrams who are economically weak?

These are just some thoughts, if we are serious, please count me in....

 

[CHANDRU1849]

May be Vaishnavas might not be able to!LOL

But Lord Shiva is quite a gender equal God..besides being Ardhanareeswhara...Kali has trampled Him before!

Arthanareeshwara is perfect example of gender equality.

It is not so in the case of other sect. Ramayana and Mahabharatha are clear examples of depicting women are to depend on men. They have no say.

Apart from Arthanareeshwara concept, Silapathikaram also is an example of woman empowerment. Here, Kannagi faced the problems herself, instead of handing over it to a physically strong person, as in the case of Mahabharatha - Bhiman.

These examples show the difference in the clarity of thinking regarding man and woman relationship.

 

[tks]

This thread is reaching its closure.

My take as a summary is this:

1. There is systematic discrimination in parts of India including Tamil Nadu with those that are called Brahmins. Government carries this tag in a person's identity and one is subject to acts of discrimination which is a ground reality today.

To deal with this, one needs a true leader who can unite and not divide the community of TB to address just the problem of overt discrimination. It is a simpler problem to address in my view because it is well understood.

2. IC/IR marriages are symptoms of other problems. Youngsters are confused by and large as to what Brahmanism stands for. Today worldwide, means of communications (Internet, smart phone, cloud computing) is breaking down barriers of all kinds - gender, geography, race, sexual orientation, caste, relative wealth etc. Youngsters are more open minded worldwide due to these phenomena.

To deal with this symptom, leaders have to emerge and come together to educate themselves first and others later as to what Brahmanism stand for. Those who selectively read well established scriptures to aggrandize own ego are unfit to lead this effort. Our knowledge scriptures present a very lofty vision and asserts truth that applies to all humanity. At a minimum without grasp of the basics it is not possible to lead anyone.

There are many young people around the world following Sri Sri Ravi Shankar. I am not his big fan, but I applaud his abilities because he unifies based on clarity of his understanding.

Those stuck in superstitions and live by rituals done mindlessly cannot attract any youngsters of any group.

Here the IC/IR marriages are symptoms of "scriptural illiterates" in the community that are superstitious and narrow minded.

3. Dwindling numbers of TB population.

This is arising out of many Adharmic factors of past practices-
a. not respecting role of females with tyrannical practices - dowry, put-downs, treatment of widows etc.
b. Using ultrasound to terminate female fetuses etc

To deal with this, our culture must begin to view children as a source of wealth. In today's Internet dominated world, opportunities exist for anyone to thrive. Weddings can take place even if one is a student (point made earlier by Sri Brahmanyan).

Teaching children about Dharma and Adharma will be a good step. This can be accomplished via Internet and online forums.

 

[renuka]

Arthanareeshwara is perfect example of gender equality.

It is not so in the case of other sect. Ramayana and Mahabharatha are clear examples of depicting women are to depend on men. They have no say.

Apart from Arthanareeshwara concept, Silapathikaram also is an example of woman empowerment. Here, Kannagi faced the problems herself, instead of handing over it to a physically strong person, as in the case of Mahabharatha - Bhiman.

These examples show the difference in the clarity of thinking regarding man and woman relationship.

I dont really consider the Kannagi episode a women empowerment episode.

She should have been charged with Arson.

She could have just got herself a Madhavan and not cause death of countless people.

What empowerment is that when one causes death of others?

 

[V.Balasubramani]

She should have been charged with Arson.

Doctor Mam,

That was a disaster...

Excerpt:

When the Madurai city was burning, the God of Fire appeared before Kannagi and asked herif she wished anyone to survive this catastrophe. She wanted the God of Fire toleave out Brahmins, good men, cows, chaste women, the elderly and children andburn the rest. On this, the fire selectively destroyed the remaining.

Floats depict love, valour inTamil literature

Read more at: http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...-valour-in-tamil-literature/article483512.ece

 

[mkrishna100]

She wanted the God of Fire toleave out Brahmins, good men, cows, chaste women, the elderly and children andburn the rest.

So many TBs must be happy that they are alive today because their ancestors were spared of being burnt by God of Fire on the Orders of Kannagi .

 

[renuka]

Doctor Mam,

That was a disaster...

Excerpt:

When the Madurai city was burning, the God of Fire appeared before Kannagi and asked herif she wished anyone to survive this catastrophe. She wanted the God of Fire toleave out Brahmins, good men, cows, chaste women, the elderly and children andburn the rest. On this, the fire selectively destroyed the remaining.

Floats depict love, valour inTamil literature

Read more at: http://www.thehindu.com/todays-pape...-valour-in-tamil-literature/article483512.ece

Dear Sir,

Does that mean lives of people who are unchaste or bad or Non Brahmanas or Non Cow animals have no value?

BTW Kannagi forgot to ask herself if she was good enough herself cos if her Karma was all that good why did she get an unfaithful husband who had no respect for her?

Why? What did she do in a previous life? Did she cheat on her husband in a previous life hence suffered in this life?

I feel Kannagi was just too emotional and lacked Viveka..any person who can think rationally would stop to ask ourselves first if this suffering we face is becos of our past Karma and try to handle it with some sense and sensibility instead of killing others...otherwise its nothing but pride and prejudice.


I have noted women who think they are overtly chaste just want to be glorified at any cost.

Narcissistic Personalities and nothing more.

 

[mkrishna100]

i have noted women who think they are overtly chaste just want to be glorified at any cost.

narcissistic personalities and nothing more.

lol

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I dont really consider the Kannagi episode a women empowerment episode.

She should have been charged with Arson.

She could have just got herself a Madhavan and not cause death of countless people.

What empowerment is that when one causes death of others?

Any strong protest will naturally lead to some sort of damage. The point I want to stress is that Kannagi, as a woman, was shown as brave and courageous lady who could face any challenge, contrary to the thinking that women are weak and cannot fight for justice.

 

[renuka]

Any strong protest will naturally lead to some sort of damage. The point I want to stress is that Kannagi, as a woman, was shown as brave and courageous lady who could face any challenge, contrary to the thinking that women are weak and cannot fight for justice.

Its the weak woman who fights for herself...the strong woman makes men do all the fighting.

 

[auh]

When the Madurai city was burning, the God of Fire appeared before Kannagi and asked herif she wished anyone to survive this catastrophe. She wanted the God of Fire toleave out Brahmins, good men, cows, chaste women, the elderly and children andburn the rest. On this, the fire selectively destroyed the remaining.

Sir, does that mean (reg the highlighted) that brahmins were separate and good men were separate?

And we have members who make meandering, cavernous posts about how brahmins mean good men (sattvik etc).

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Sir, does that mean (reg the highlighted) that brahmins were separate and good men were separate?

And we have members who make meandering, cavernous posts about how brahmins mean good men (sattvik etc).

Auh Ji,

I found Silapathikaram poem reads like this:

And any one is free to interpret its meaning according his level of understanding & thinking capacity. ​


பார்ப்பார் அறவோர் பசு பத்தினிப் பெண்டிர்

மூத்தோர் குழவி எனும் இவரைக்கைவிட்டுத்
தீத்திறத்தார் பக்கமே சேர்க.

And what poet Ilango Adigal had in his mind.............???

 

[Raji Ram]

Since Tamil poetry has entered this thread, just one clarification.

Those days, brahmins followed 'aRa vazhi' and some from other varnAs were good men.

Hence the poet wrote those words.

But now a days many born brahmins have deviated very much from the righteous path! :tsk:

 

[auh]

Since Tamil poetry has entered this thread, just one clarification.

Those days, brahmins followed 'aRa vazhi' and some from other varnAs were good men.

Hence the poet wrote those words.

But now a days many born brahmins have deviated very much from the righteous path! :tsk:

Then the poet could have just stuck with "அறவோர்" since it implies both brahmins and the good men. But he did not !

 

[Vaagmi]

Sir, does that mean (reg the highlighted) that brahmins were separate and good men were separate?

And we have members who make meandering, cavernous posts about how brahmins mean good men (sattvik etc).

And we had people who were regretfull brahmins who were stuck in a groove from which they never tried to come out (as we have now). Did the fire leave them too?

 

[Raji Ram]

Then the poet could have just stuck with "அறவோர்" since it implies both brahmins and the good men. But he did not !

This is similar to ''Crows are black but all that are black are not crows''.

All brahmins are அறவோர் but all அறவோர் need not be brahmins!

Howzat?

 

[zebra16]

Then the poet could have just stuck with "அறவோர்" since it implies both brahmins and the good men. But he did not !

He might not have been a frequent visitor to TB forum to know the complete nuances

 

[zebra16]

But now a days many born brahmins have deviated very much from the righteous path! :tsk:

And we have been discussing this in thread after thread and page after page.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Its the weak woman who fights for herself...the strong woman makes men do all the fighting.

You want to indirectly say that Men are weak since they are fighting for themselves and for women.

 

[auh]

This is similar to ''Crows are black but all that are black are not crows''.

All brahmins are அறவோர் but all அறவோர் need not be brahmins!

Howzat?

I would think that since the poet mentioned both brahmins and aravor, there should be some difference between the two. It could be even that "Paarpaar" need not be aravor. The succeeding lines reveal the nature; the poet says that "patthini pen, the old and the children" (pls correct me if I am mistaken in the meanings of the tamil words) are to be spared.

Patthini pen - may not refer only to chaste women, but should include those married women who qualify as patthini by performing the duties and obligations expected of her (again, members pls correct me on this). So, the fire would have charred those "married but not patthini" and unmarried women. Some difficulties arise here:

1) If the woman belongs to paarpaar and not chaste/not unmarried/not aravor, would she have been spared? I guess, any type of paarpaar should be spared, going by the wordings.
2) If the woman could be called aravor but not married or not a brahmin, would she have been spared?

Aravor - obviously this has to be from the non-paarpaar community as otherwise this should have been enough for all the good people.

Old and the children - no distinguishing here as to good or bad since they are beyond that level, as per the poet.

 

[auh]

And we had people who were regretfull brahmins who were stuck in a groove from which they never tried to come out (as we have now). Did the fire leave them too?

I did not mean you in my post above.

 

[auh]

He might not have been a frequent visitor to TB forum to know the complete nuances

 

[renuka]

You want to indirectly say that Men are weak since they are fighting for themselves and for women.

No....I do not want to say indirectly...I meant it directly.

Isn't it a known fact that males are indeed the "weaker' sex?

Best example is cases of Lovvu gone wrong.

Males who can not marry their Lovvu become depressed..some become Devdas type of alcoholics..some even commit suicide but females can right away marry the man their parents choose..feel depressed may be just for a short while..within a few weeks they would talk all about Thali sentiment if at all the ex boyfriend still desires here.

Suddenly she will become as pure as fire claiming that fire wont burn her blah blah blah...

she wont feel anything for her ex boyfriend but the male just jumps off the cliff.