Is the caste system weakness of Hinduism?

[anandb]

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Dear Shri. Kunjuppu

coming from malabar, i think, we were sort of ambiguous about the kanchi mutt. or the sringeri mutt. or any mutt for that matter.

we were deep into our own bhagavathis, ayyappans and guruvayurappans for our solace, comfort and religiosity.

the first time i heard of kanchi mutt, was when one of my relatives, who had 5 daughters was widowed. she wanted to seek solace and blessings from the mutt head. this was in the late 50s.

to everyone's shock, she was told to go shave her head, wear white and come back (not sure if she was allowed to wear a blouse).

years later, in the late 60s, the then junior head visited our neighbourhood. he carefully skirted the nearby slums, and it became an honour issue, that i should join the family in doing நமஸ்காரம் to someone whose values i did not agree.

this incited a battle royale in my household, and defeated me, joined the family in doing the public நமஸ்காரம் when this man stepped foot in my house and immediately departed (total elapsed time 15 seconds or so).

in the 70s, i had a relative who was whispered to have indulged in nefarious activities as part of indira gandhi's henchmen, and incidentally enriched himself. he retired, and almost immediately, got a high position at the kanchi mutt, much to my indignation. his wife explained to questioning relatives, that it was time for him to cleanse himself of his பாவம்ஸ் and seek redemption.

there were also a bunch of his friends, whom he proudly told us, joined along with him. these were the most reactionary corrupt guys i have seen, who were drunk with the unsupervised power which indira so easily and willingly dispensed.

i could not but feel a pang when i heard of the present mutt head's initial arrest. not that i had any soft feelings for him, but the ingrained பார்ப்பான் in me drummed over 16 years of living at home, i guess, must have had an hand in it.

i talked to a lot of folks including a dear friend in sydney australia. he wanted me to read a book by the previous mutt head, and i very explicitly told him the circumstances under which i abhor such company and such company's creations.

i notice that there are two groups who are ardent devotees of the mutt. one are the simpletons, like sankarraman, who felt betrayed at the fast paced change of morals, morality and movement towards the 21st century of an organization that is basically rooted in vedic values.

the others are the erudite intellectuals of the like anand, saptha etc., to whom, i think, it does not matter who sits on the kanchi gaddi, as long as the values are maintained per vedic brahminism.

then there is another kind, of the jamadagneya type, who reside on the fringe of the outhouse of kanchi mutt, and who wish to gather the buckets of droppings and hurl them at anyone who would not join their designated path to self destruction.

not much is said of the common middle class, basically not well versed in our dogmas, those who light the lamp daily, observe the concept of தீண்டல் in its various personifications, அமாவாசை, தெவசம், ஆவணி அவிட்டம் etc. ie the run of the mill urban brahmin of the 60s, which my father was, and i am not sure, if such breed exist anymore.

to these folks, i imagine, the evolution of kanchi mutt, to what it is now, is a let down. nobody has addressed the anguish of simple folks with minimally scriptured, sans sanskrit, but with an ardent attachment to what they feel is a 'brahmincal way of life'. these are the folks that are literrally left at the shores of an ocean, while the ship has departed to unknown shores.

that these type of folks are among the most racist and exclusivist, in my opinon, is not the issue. that they are part of my larger community of folks, and who are distressed, and the jawboning arguements presented by various parties here, gently sidestep the realities of a group left leaderless, is something i consider despicable.

also, i have noticed, and i hope i am wrong, these are the folks, who are actively recruited into chp and rss, under the guise of companionship and group honour. and ofcourse, social service. i shudder to the inevitability of TB blood being shed for causes which only the armchair inciters know and for which, my brethren are an innocent cannon fodder.

to some extent, i think the intellectual proponents of kanchi are responsible for this plight. something, they should do to prevent a holocaust of our gullible brethren.

God Bless.

I do understand your anguish but I think we need to be fair to the Mutt and its religious heads. I am not commenting on the aspects of widow, slums and henchmen becoming cronies. Though I have great regard for the present Acharya, I cannot speak much for these days as I don't follow much their activities. I speak during the Paramacharya's times when I was a school going kid and we used to visit the mutt often. Both my parents side, the number of families were huge. We probably belong to (as you put) this middle class of minimally scriptured sans Sanskrit but attached to a "brahminical way of life". All these families including ours would run to Kanchi at the slightest excuse to have darshan of the Maha Periavaal and listen to discourses with rapt attention. If you ask me the Acharya had plenty of messages especially for the brahmin community but I felt more than his messages all these people were raptured about was his oratory skills and extensive knowledge. In short none of the simple messages (like doing the Sandya, simple marriages, avoiding dowry, avoiding silk, having Upanayanam at the right age, not drinking coffee just to name a few) were followed by these people at any point of time. In fact the opposite was true. Dowry, ostentatious marriages, drinking copious quantities of coffee all day long were rampant. Some of the women did shed wearing silk saris but when they reached the age of 70 or 75 when it did not matter what the other women would say. Actually I found this group to be the most hippocratic of all. So I would say about the huge number of devotees failing the Mutt as well. Luckily I have not found them turning to be extremists.

 

[pvraman]

I was looking at my friend's late grand father's collection of books. There i found 2 volumes of a book titled "INDIAVIN VARALARU" written by 4 soviet scholars translated by a tamil writer. (published by the new century book house in the year 1973 to 1979). It starts from pre harapan civilization upto 1972.

This book is again based on the 4 volume books written in the year 1959 to 1969 quoting lot of research sources and materials.

I have just gone through few chapters only.

Few Interesting notes.

Pre Harapan settlement had evidence that there were priests warriors traders workers and slaves.

Routes of caste and estate system is found there considering the disparity of belongings.

The access for the common to the elites are restricted.(there were only two gates provided in the whole seperated compound)
Considering the dating of things found; they presume that VEDIC civilization was established few centuries after the disappearance of harapan civilization.

They state that the varna system started to take its presence along with the existing estate system.(prabu).
In order to remove the suffering of the society due to the caste and estate system, the varna system started and later made sacred.

In those times also there were slaves apart from these classes.
The fighting between kshatria and bramana and the elites greed started to weaken the varna system.

The book says it could be believed safely that ksaktrias and brahmanas were squeezing the working class.

Once it could be stated that when the vedic civilizations were living in purams - small settlements all worked and shared the things. The main work was agriculture and husbandry.
At times due to draught brahmana reported to all kind of jobs including manual labour such as working in agricultural land.

I will write more after completing the book.

Cheers

 

[pvraman]

The authors state that some of the opinions need more research. They also feel that the difficulty in getting more clues from submerged mohenjodaro makes some important things inconclusive.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.RVR Sir said:-

"I just attended a christian wedding at Piravom, near Ernakulam, Kerala. The boy and girl belong to christian community but different orthodox churches prevailing in Kerala such as Syrian Catholic and Jacobites. Both the churches refused to accept the marriage and the parents performed it in a Roman Catholic Church which accepted the couples as new members.

I was shocked to learn the episode which I thought prevails only in Hindu religion. I was told that Muslim and Jews have similar restrictions in marriage."

Sri.RVR, Vanakkam. You are talking about different sects of Christianity. They act like different religions; they each have their own seperate church; Priests chosen from the same sect; even their church activities differ. For example, Jehowah's witnesses do not accept 25th December as the day baby jesus was born; they have no celebration of new year nor any birthdays.....list goes on. Each sect even poach members from other sects through conversions. But the members of the same sect do not discriminate each other and are treated equally by other members (except for the financial status, of course!). Here is a link for that -

Faith groups within Christianity

In Hiduism, although the caste system differentiate the population, still they are under the same religion. In other words, In hinduism each caste members act as if they belong to different sects although they seem to be under the same umbrella. If each caste has different temples, their own priests etc, then your comparison would be correct; it is not the case though.

Muslims usually don't marry between sects. Each sect has its own mosque headed by the mullah chosen within the sect.

Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jews have no restriction of marriage with in their religion. There is no evidence of a strong sect mentality.

Jewish religious movements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"There is no harm in preserving Brahmin culture, customs and practices when people belonging to other relgion have almost similar practices."

Sri.RVR Sir, I agree with you 100%. There is no harm in preserving the Brahmin custom and cultures. Never mind about other religions; Brahmin culture is unique. I am all for it too. I love the brahmin culture so much, I recommend converting NBs to become Brahmins through marriages.

Cheers!

 

[pvraman]

Sri Raghy,

Sri.RVR Sir, I agree with you 100%. There is no harm in preserving the Brahmin custom and cultures. Never mind about other religions; Brahmin culture is unique. I am all for it too. I love the brahmin culture so much, I recommend converting NBs to become Brahmins through marriages.

IMHO, no caste would like to ape brahmin caste, as they are very proud of their own caste. As some of the forward thinking Bs are opening their Market, the only takers would be the one who are shunned out of the society by other caste Hindus. I have seen some of the NBs very aggressively opposing their boy to wed a Brahmin girl. Otherwise marriage between equal professions or wealthy alliance is a personal affair which is nothing to do with சமூக சீர்திருத்தம் type.

The need of the hour is not this kind of avial, but respecting the fellow human being irrespective of profession or financial status they are holding. It will result in a greatest society, who go about their job with pride or without any humiliation.

Considering the disparity in the present society, and greediness among the public, it is a very very remote possibility to achieve that. Society requires all type of people. Only the mutual respect as a human being is required.

Cheers

 

[happyhindu]

i missed visiting this thread. i don't agree with most of the post. but no time to respond in detail. just this input:

I have seen some of the NBs very aggressively opposing their boy to wed a Brahmin girl.

this happened in some closely known cases.

the only prob cited was diff in financial standing of the sambandhis.

but if they want to refuse an alliance (that they consider unequal to themselves), then caste and horoscope are the 2 easiest targets as excuses (to offer to the other side).

And the horoscope excuse is used, even if the horoscopes actually match. They will say a 101 things, that so and so planet in this house, so its not good for the boy's sister or father's brother, and whatever crap, just to refuse.

whereever the sambandhis consider themselves of equal standing (irrespective of lingustic groups / castes) , there has been absolutely no prob in acceptance (so far atleast).

its an other matter that some mixed couples do not get along after a while; while some mixed couples are really happy together after many- many years too. ....just luck i think sometimes.

As much as things work out or do not work out in arranged marriages, the same seems to apply for mixed couples too. All about fate plus self-effort put in to nurture relationships, i suppose...

 

[happyhindu]

pvr,

thank you very much for the post on the book indiavin varalaru.

please continue to post.

regards.

 

[sapthajihva]

Dear Shri Nara,

.................
Anyway, I hope you are able to live with some discordant opinions, that is what makes our lives more vibrant and interesting.

My intention is not to hurt anybody with that post; sometimes, discussions of a knowledgeable nature are bound to adversely influence people (who may be just passive). The concern is more for the passive readers who may speculate and form conclusions on whatever 'knowledgeable' discussions that are here!

We all have differences - both from the outside and inside. But that is how we are...

Regards,

 

[sapthajihva]

Shri kunjuppu,

.......

i think a bitter sweet contradiction of views, anyday, a greater treat than a hand thumping 'rah rah' agreement.

Your points are not lost on me. Now I ask you to consider this:

I am not opposing anybody personally, rather there is a line which we ourselves have to draw while discussing subjects of such gravity.

It is not merely a chess game which everyone can simply disemble the pieces and start a new game. The mind has a vicarious tendency; people, even though they do not have direct knowledge on a subject, would readily accept offhand sources. (I will not go into how or why this happens, as it would be boring for you, me and the others...). That is why some amount of self-restraint is needed, not for our sake, but for the others, and that too, not in all matters, only in some. Is it asking too much?

It may be amusing for some time, for some... Should we be so self-centred that we think our view is to hold good for others also?

Thank you.

 

[pvraman]

Dear Smt HH Ji,

pvr,

thank you very much for the post on the book indiavin varalaru.

please continue to post.

regards.

Thanks., I am trying to get hold of the 1959 versions. These 1972 books are having lot of references, which I am trying to google for some authentication before posting.

Regards

 

[happyhindu]

Thanks., I am trying to get hold of the 1959 versions. These 1972 books are having lot of references, which I am trying to google for some authentication before posting.

Regards

thankyou very much sir. really appreciate this..i think its going to be quite a lot of work for you, hope you will manage..

 

[Ramansrini]

Pvraman,

I am interested to know about the history, but we don’t need to read the history to understand the cruelty of caste system. I just want to share some of my experience in my village around 30 years ago.

We had two communities in our village. The lower caste(சக்லி) should talk to upper caste person with folded hand and bended back. When we were child, we used to call even older sakli, டேய், இங்கவாடா. My mother told me to respect elders, but she never objected if we did not give respect to sakli. We did not offer water in a glass. Tea shop had separate glass for them. My friends used to criticize me as சக்லி if I treated them respectfully.

The untouchability was common in all villages. I never blamed Brahmin for untouchablity because all upper castes in TN followed untouchability.

In varnasiram dharama, we can follow four stages of life(பிரமச்சாரி, க்ரகஷ்டன், வானப்ரஸ்தம், சன்யாசம் ), but we can not follow the caste system in this democratic world. Please watch எங்கேபிராமணன்in Jaya TV. How can a soul will born from lord feet as sudra, then the same soul go back to lord and come back from thighs as vaisha and so on. The soul will take many lives to grow spiritually, but we can find spiritual person in any caste, race or creed. We have alwars and nayanmars from all castes.

Other three castes may be happy about varnashram dharma, but we also need to see the sytem from sudra’s perspective.

As per manu,

9.335. (A Sudra who is) pure, the servant of his betters, gentle in his speech, and free from pride, and alwaysseeks a refuge with Brahmanas, attains (in his next life) a higher caste.

As per human right, all human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

I cut and pasted part of Ramanuja’s life history below from the site

http://www.trsiyengar.com/id284.shtml.
19. Ramanuja accept Kanchi Poorna as Guru
Ramanuja did not believe in the caste system. He disliked superstitions. The sage Kanchi poorna was a devotee of Lord Varadaraja. He was not a Brahmin. But Ramanuja accepted him as his Guru and he used to prostrate before him. His wife did not relish much of Ramanuja respecting Kanchipoorna by prostrating.

 

[Curious]

Greetings,

I have been reading posts in this thread. I was brought up in a city. As far as I know I never bothered about caste and religion till 2006. I have friends from all communities. None of my friends discuss about cast. In 2006, my parents started discussing about my marriage. This is when I realized importance of caste, horroscope, religion etc. Before 2006, I think of my friends, career and pray my favourite god(Muruga). Now, I started reading about Hinduism, Caste and Horroscope to understand what my parents are saying. Before 2006, I never thought I would do this :-(

I honestly wonder why caste comes into picture only during marriage discussions. I'm pretty sure I will forget the caste after marriage. I'm not a brahmin. I also wonder what culture I have other than praying Hindu gods, speaking in tamil, watching tamil/hindi movies and eating Indian foods. I also don't know what I preserve in marrying in my caste. Everything looks stars to me. I gaze at them and wonder.

To me life is to do something interesting, help others, be a leader, eat well and spend time with my family and friends. Now I ask myself the following questions.
What I will learn extra if I read Hinduism in depth?
Will Hinduism help me advance in my career?
Will Hinduism help me become more disciplined?
Will Hinduism help me become more healthy?
Will Hinduism help me bring more cheers to the society?
Do I need to buy Hinduism books instead of buying best seller books in Amazon.com for self improvement?

This is my first post in the forum. I'm delighted to join this forum.

Thank you.

 

[Ramansrini]

Hi Curious,

I just answered your questions with my little knowledge about Hinduism.

What I will learn extra if I read Hinduism in depth?

Highly intelligent and educated people supposed live happily, but why do they live in stress?

Will Hinduism help me advance in my career?

Yes. Have you heard about mindful meditation? It means that to keep focusing on your mind to present. You are always successful in your career if you know this.

Will Hinduism help me become more disciplined?
Yes.

Will Hinduism help me become more healthy?

Yes. We have scientific proof for the benefits of Yoga, prayer and meditation. You can check in the net. Hinduism also contains ayurveda and sidda systems.

Will Hinduism help me bring more cheers to the society?

Yes. India has strong family system than any other country because of our religion. Society is ever changing, so sometime we may need to rethink certain ideas without giving up dharma(discipline)


Do I need to buy Hinduism books instead of buying best seller books in Amazon.com for self improvement?

Yes. How do you know the benefits of the religion if we don’t know about this.

 

[Curious]

Thanks Ramansrini Sir.

I do basic Hatha yoga. Sarvangaasana cured my headache. Western medicine did not help. I definitely like to know the benefits of the religion.

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

As per manu,

9.335. (A Sudra who is) pure, the servant of his betters, gentle in his speech, and free from pride, and alwaysseeks a refuge with Brahmanas, attains (in his next life) a higher caste..

This part sir, is subject to debate....it is argued that manu did not say (in his next life)..

Regards.

 

[happyhindu]

Sir,

Am sorry i missed reading this post.

1) Since the successor is selected from few Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt, why do you insist that all communities have to be admitted to these vedha patasalas. Even here only poor smartha brahmacharis are admitted and they sacrifice their life by not taking up formal education from schools and colleges.

Sir, it is not me (that is me, the person) insisting (what do i get from it).....am just echoing and reflecting what other communities are expecting..

but personally, i agree that if they want to see equality in matters of religion, then its not right to stop them......

they too are willing to sacrifice their life by not taking up formal education and are willing to dedicate themselves to a strict brahmachari's life..

hope it is possible for the mutt to open a few more vedapatshalas where they can take in additional students....they need not necessarily chose a mutt successor from these new patshalas..and hopefully admitting students will suffice in giving people a sense of belonging (though only god knows how in which direction the expectations of people will swing).

2) Present Kanchi Acharya Sri Jayendra Saraswathi Swamigal is already mixing with all communities and doing lot of service to dalith community in particular.

We already spoke on this before. Mingling with all communities, extending a helping hand, is all fine. But it is considered insufficient as long as birth based segregation remains..

3) I think everybody should take the example of keralites. They visit temples only after taking bath. The Namboodri priest treats every body alike. Even if a VIP visits the temple, the Namboodri priest will not touch him. No special treatment is given to fellow namboodri brahmins or other brahmins. Temple administration is always held by other communities and poojas are done only by namboodries. It works fine for centuries without any problem

Agree with you 100%.

Regards.

Ms Happi Hindu ji, My replies are in blue.

Originally Posted by happyhindu
I agree with you 100% sir.

The only expectations are these:

a) Please allow others also to receive education in the vedas. Let no religious organization stop or prevent anyone from pursuing such an education, if a boy or girl has such an interest.

Kanchi mutt runs few Vedha patasalas for poor brahmins. The mutt successors are mostly selected from the students of these Vedha Patasalas. Kanchi mutt has a tradition of appointing only Smartha Brahmins as mutt heads. Hence they are forced to follow the traditions offering vedhas only to smartha brahmins.

Smarthas have no role in getting appointed as priests in Hindu temples in Tamilnadu. Vishnu temples selects pure vaishanavite Battacharyas. Siva temples selects pure Saivaite brahmins (Gurukkal) as priests. NB communities appoint poojaris among their own members as priests in Mariamman/Kali temples.

Only one post held exclusive for Smartha brahmins is Kanchi/Sringeri mutt head post. Even here, language is not insisted and smartha brahmins belonging to Telugu, Kannada sects are selected. Adhi Sankarar is a Namboodri brahmin from Kerala. Paramacharyal is a Hoysila brahmin from Karnataka origin. Present Junior Acharya of Kanchi mutt is a Telugu Brahmin.

Except this one post, Smartha brahmins are not holding priestly post anywhere. Even this post is not reserved for Smartha brahmins of Tamil Origin. Since the successor is selected from few Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt, why do you insist that all communities have to be admitted to these vedha patasalas. Even here only poor smartha brahmacharis are admitted and they sacrifice their life by not taking up formal education from schools and colleges.

b) If a religious organization wishes to guide the masses, please let it be clear and specific about what must be followed and what must be discarded.

One cannot throw the baby out with the bath water. One just needs to recognise that the bath water is dirty and needs to be discarded.

Present Kanchi Acharya Sri Jayendra Saraswathi Swamigal is already mixing with all communities and doing lot of service to dalith community in particular.

c) Let there be respect for every profession. A scavenger does his job as much as anyone else. Let his profession not have "scriptural sanction" to demean him or keep him as an outcaste.

If he wants to visit the temple, please let the priest or someone in the temple teach him to be hygienic. Please tell him to bathe and be clean while entering the temple. Let him take part in all poojais. In this way, by providing guidance and showing acceptance, respect for the local priests will also increase.

I think everybody should take the example of keralites. They visit temples only after taking bath. The Namboodri priest treats every body alike. Even if a VIP visits the temple, the Namboodri priest will not touch him. No special treatment is given to fellow namboodri brahmins or other brahmins. Temple administration is always held by other communities and poojas are done only by namboodries. It works fine for centuries without any problem

Regards.

 

[RVR]

Sir,

Am sorry i missed reading this post.

1) Since the successor is selected from few Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt, why do you insist that all communities have to be admitted to these vedha patasalas. Even here only poor smartha brahmacharis are admitted and they sacrifice their life by not taking up formal education from schools and colleges.

Sir, it is not me (that is me, the person) insisting (what do i get from it).....am just echoing and reflecting what other communities are expecting..

but personally, i agree that if they want to see equality in matters of religion, then its not right to stop them......

they too are willing to sacrifice their life by not taking up formal education and are willing to dedicate themselves to a strict brahmachari's life..

hope it is possible for the mutt to open a few more vedapatshalas where they can take in additional students....they need not necessarily chose a mutt successor from these new patshalas..and hopefully admitting students will suffice in giving people a sense of belonging (though only god knows how in which direction the expectations of people will swing).

2) Present Kanchi Acharya Sri Jayendra Saraswathi Swamigal is already mixing with all communities and doing lot of service to dalith community in particular.

We already spoke on this before. Mingling with all communities, extending a helping hand, is all fine. But it is considered insufficient as long as birth based segregation remains..

3) I think everybody should take the example of keralites. They visit temples only after taking bath. The Namboodri priest treats every body alike. Even if a VIP visits the temple, the Namboodri priest will not touch him. No special treatment is given to fellow namboodri brahmins or other brahmins. Temple administration is always held by other communities and poojas are done only by namboodries. It works fine for centuries without any problem

Agree with you 100%.

Regards.

Kanchi/Sringeri mutts are followers of advaitha philosophy.

Brahmins follow different philosophies like Dwaitha, Vishitadvaitha etc and only followers of advaita philosophy visit Kanchi/Sringeri mutts.

Other communities have their own Gurus. There are several saiva adheenams at Dharmapuram, Thiruppanandal, Madurai, Thiruvidaimarudur etc. When Sri Jayendra Saraswathi was appointed for the renovation committee of Nellaiappar temple at Tirunelveli, several saiva adheenams objected stating that he is not a follower of `Saiva Philosophy' and hence should not be appointed.

When Sri Jayendra Saraswathi made some comments at Tirupathi, several vaishnavite sects objected to his speech stating that he is not a vaishnavite and ultimately he was forced to withdraw the comments.

Sri Jayendra Saraswathi cannot do pooja directly to Goddess Kamakshi at Kanchipuram which is under the administration of Kanchi Mutt. Only heriditary priests of the temple can do pooja directly to Goddess Kamakshi and he can only watch.

Under these circumstances, again and again asking only Kanchi mutt to dilute its traditions and practices seems to be a motivated demand without any reasoning.

Let others follow their practices. Let Kanchi/Sringeri mutts follow their practices.

In my village there are four temples. Only a Gurukkal does pooja in the Siva temple. A battachariar is doing pooja in the Perumal temple. Poojaries belonging to other communities perform poojas in the other two Amman temples. We smarthas just worship in all the four temples at a distance. We never complained that we are discriminated. Let others also follow the same principle.

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

Kanchi/Sringeri mutts are followers of advaitha philosophy.

Brahmins follow different philosophies like Dwaitha, Vishitadvaitha etc and only followers of advaita philosophy visit Kanchi/Sringeri mutts.

Other communities have their own Gurus. There are several saiva adheenams at Dharmapuram, Thiruppanandal, Madurai, Thiruvidaimarudur etc. When Sri Jayendra Saraswathi was appointed for the renovation committee of Nellaiappar temple at Tirunelveli, several saiva adheenams objected stating that he is not a follower of `Saiva Philosophy' and hence should not be appointed.

When Sri Jayendra Saraswathi made some comments at Tirupathi, several vaishnavite sects objected to his speech stating that he is not a vaishnavite and ultimately he was forced to withdraw the comments.

Sri Jayendra Saraswathi cannot do pooja directly to Goddess Kamakshi at Kanchipuram which is under the administration of Kanchi Mutt. Only heriditary priests of the temple can do pooja directly to Goddess Kamakshi and he can only watch.

Under these circumstances, again and again asking only Kanchi mutt to dilute its traditions and practices seems to be a motivated demand without any reasoning.

Let others follow their practices. Let Kanchi/Sringeri mutts follow their practices.

In my village there are four temples. Only a Gurukkal does pooja in the Siva temple. A battachariar is doing pooja in the Perumal temple. Poojaries belonging to other communities perform poojas in the other two Amman temples. We smarthas just worship in all the four temples at a distance. We never complained that we are discriminated. Let others also follow the same principle.

All the best

will repsond in detail soon...abt the last para, please note that it is not possible for everyone also to expect what we expect....as long as people consider some practices as discriminatory, it is not possible to mollify them by explaining things to them....they want to see equality in practice, so what to do..

also, they are not talking abt differences in various sects .....what they are talking abt is specifically admission / education for all communities in vedic schools (whereever such schools exist)....

 

[renuka]

this is just my own feelings not directed to anyone here.
no need to reply also.

Of all the things in the world why is the Kanchi Mutt alone is being targetted here?
I hope i dont sound like the situation where after hearing the Ramayana one asks what is Rama's relationship with regards to Sita.

there are so many things else for us to play target practice.
Poor Kanchi Mutt guys must be having hiccups every time they eat.

 

[happyhindu]

Renu, going thru my other posts, i guess you might have read between the lines as well. And the mutt is supposedly considered everything that the orthodoxy in hinduism represents. Regards.

 

[RVR]

Ms Happy Hindu ji,

Please see the following website

..::Nama Dwaar ::.. Bodendra Saraswati Swamigal

One of the Acharyas of Kanchi mutt, Sri Bodendra Saraswathi Swamigal has recommended `Rama Nama' for liberation. This he suggested to all the castes. I usually visit Bodendral's jeeva samadhi mostly during my visit to my native village near Tiruvarur.

Reformers were there at Kanchi mutt as much as 300 years back but people have forgotten them. Bagavathnama Bodendrar has preached just`Rama Nama' for liberation to all communities during his period.

One need not have to go to Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt to learn difficult scriptures. Instead they can go to the Jeeva Samadhi of Bodendrar and start chanting `Rama Nama'

All the best

 

[happyhindu]

One need not have to go to Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt to learn difficult scriptures. Instead they can go to the Jeeva Samadhi of Bodendrar and start chanting `Rama Nama'

Sir, i agree with you. Me too not interested in elaborate learning of scriptures. Nor do i know anyone who is interested.

But there are people who are willing to live that difficult life. They want to be learned in the vedas. How to convince them with these points (that seem fine to us but not to them).

Their interest is spiritualism and they are willing to live a strict life as per the scriptures. They want openness in admission to vedic schools across the country. And for that, they are only requesting, out of sincerity to concerned mutt heads.

To them, its also about the sense of belonging to the hindu religion. If they are willing to live a life like that, then who are we to stop them...And am not able to find any suitable reason why anyone should stop them.

How can one man decide an other man's entry to temples, pursuit of spiritualism, desire to read the vedas, etc....

 

[nachi naga]

re

renu,

'this is just my own feelings not directed to anyone here.
no need to reply also.'

Pardon me my for taking liberty,A rare jeevan like you needs a reply.

'Of all the things in the world why is the Kanchi Mutt alone is being targetted here?'

Exactly.

'I hope i dont sound like the situation where after hearing the Ramayana one asks what is Rama's relationship with regards to Sita.'

Good one.You made my day.

'there are so many things else for us to play target practice.
Poor Kanchi Mutt guys must be having hiccups every time they eat.'

It's called as 'dwesham'.KM guys/gals eat,sleep,digest...sleep well.Thanks for the solidarity.Chith-ananda Swaroopam Shivoham Shivoham.

nachi naga.

 

[Nara]

...
One need not have to go to Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt to learn difficult scriptures. Instead they can go to the Jeeva Samadhi of Bodendrar and start chanting `Rama Nama'

What if they are not content with chanting Rama Nama, but want to learn Vedas.

"Let them eat cake" supposedly said Queen Marie Antoinette. Look what happened to her. Fortunately, not many care to learn Vedas, particularly Brahmins

Liberty, Egality, Fraternity!!!