Sir,
There are several Hindu organisations teaching vedhas and let them learn from it.
Yes they are. But why only kanchi mutt wants to seperate itself out from the masses?
Kanchi mutt follows Advaitha philosophy. Only Smartha brahmins are suppose to be followers of Advaitha philosophy.
No sir, Advaitha philosophy is far older than the smartha brahmin community. Infact, one can say that the smartha brahmins 'adopted' advaitha philosophy. And there are several ekadandi traditions that follow the advaitha philosophy (and they are far older than Adi Shankara or the smartha community).
Kanchi mutt doesn't indulge in conversion of other communities into smartha brahmins. Other communities among Hindus have their own philosophies. Vaishanavites follow Bagavath Ramanujar. Madhvas follow Dwaitha philosophy. There are pure saiva worshippers in Tamilnadu. Similarly there are pure Amman worshippers and Murugan worshippers. Only Smartha brahmins worship all these Gods. At the same time, they don't have any priestly rights in any of the temples of these Gods.
All hindus in general worship at various temples (not just smarthas alone). Sectarian differences are not found in practice in urban places. Even in rural places, am told the differences are thinning.
Kanchi mutt runs few Vedha Patasalas through private trusts. They are not getting any Government support for them. Apart from the income earned through properties of these trusts (created through donations from Smartha Brahmins generations back), donations are collected only from Smartha Brahmins.
I do not know about how the veda patshalas are run. But the mutt itself has accepted donations from all communities, not just smartha brahmins alone (and am not touching upon donations by politicians yet here).
Those who qualify from these Vedha Patasalas take up Purohit profession for their lively hood. It is a pure private affair without affecting any other community or faith. The successors of Kanchi Acharyas are selected only from these Vedha Patasalas.
I earnestly feel that other communities should not interfere in this. Targeting Kanchi Mutt and its Vedha Patasalas is nothing but an attempt to encroach the internal affairs of this traditional mutt. Kanchi mutt is not interfering in the affairs of other faiths also.
Nobody is targetting kanchi mutt alone. No institution can practice brith-based discrimination by law.
Vedic schools run by TTD have been opened up to all irrespective of caste. In Maharashtra, namboodiris are running vedic school irrespective of caste and gender. In some states of north india, there have been a few incidents (reported by media) where NBs have been (voluntarily) accepted into vedic schools.
Almost all old temples in tamilnadu have gurukkals / sivachariers as priests, not smarthas. And if the bastion of the highest orthodoxy (that is, saiva adheenams) that trains gurukkals can accept NBs to train as purohits, what prevents the kanchi mutt from doing so?
And i am surprised that you think it is a "disgrace" to the mutt if NBs were admited to these schools. What is so disgraceful about it sir? Methinks, its only an image (ego) problem and has nothing to do with spiritualism.
Kanchi mutt has traditional following only among smartha brahmins. Till few years back mostly smartha brahmins alone will visit Kanchi Mutt. May be 90% smartha brahmins and 10% others.
Sir, in the past NBs also have been followers of the mutt. Paramacharya was considered a guru by several NBs.
Almost all the instituions are running as independent trusts. Except Vedha Patasalas, the mutt doesn't discriminate and is open to all communities. But Vedha Patasalas run under the blessings of Kanchi mutt trains purohits for Smartha brahmin community which is being done traditionally. Only smartha brahmins support such vedha patasalas for several decades.
Does that mean that they are entitled to disallow others from joining the schools? Only because the schools are run on 'smartha money' alone? The logic fails me sir. Esp since the mutt has already taken on the role of directing hindus to follow smrithis and has been segregating communities based on birth, it cannot claim to be 'exclusive' anymore, esp when it affects other communities (or 'dalits' to be precise).
A highly crude comparison to this wud be the system of creating private armies in northindia and pakistan by the landed wealthy there, to 'control' labour on their farmlands. They do not indulge in anything illegal themselves but create a social scenario of dominance by 'deciding' how others must live.
These vedha patasalas are meant for poor smartha brahmin boys taking up `Puruhit' profession. Incidentally future acharyas are selected only from these Patasalas. They cannot be appointed as temple priests and only fellow smartha brahmin grahastas are supporting them. Why other communities want to interfere with this practice?
Sir, nobody is "interfering" with any practice. But the practice of brith-based segregation is not acceptable to the masses anymore (and i mean the younger lot, not the elders from any caste).
Agreed, the purohits who pass out from the vedic schools run by mutts are not appointed as temple priests, but they do offer their services to other communities, not just smartha brahmin community alone.
However, i fail to understand this. If some 'dalits' want to train to be purohits, what is wrong with that? Why some mutts do not want to admit them? On what basis can they practice birth-based segregation in this age?
Like pure Vaishanvaites and pure Saivates, only smarthas can claim as followers of pure `Advaitha Philosophy'. Kanchi mutt is established to propagate advaita philosophy only. Hence there is nothing wrong in smarthas supporting the mutt and vice versa. This mutual support is going on for several centuries. Now why do you want to break it?
Sorry sir, and a big one at that. It is completely wrong to claim that ONLY smarthas can claim to be followers of pure advaitha (or kevala advaitha) or any form of advaitha for that matter. Infact, most followers of kevala advaitha do not follow purva mimansa. And again, I do not know how far the claim of "several centuries" can hold true. Anyways, sir, to clarify nobody wants to "break" anything. People only want "inclusiveness" and not "segregation". Does requesting for" inclusiveness" amount to "breaking" up things?
But for Adhi Sankara, we would have had several religions. He integrated all the faiths and formed `Shunmatha Stapanam'. Still followers of individual faiths doesn't accept Kanchi acharya as their Guru. No harm in it. I am not questioning it. But why people target only Kanchi Vedha Patasalas alone. Is it because it supports its traditional followers `smartha brahmins'?
Again, i dunno why you think kanchi veda patshalas are the "only" ones being "targetted". The question is asked openly and clearly -- who do some mutts (including kanchi) practice birth-based segregation?
Like various Hindu practices, Kanchi Mutt has its own self regulations in teaching and hence is not opening it to others. I don't know why a big fuss made out of the issue. Kanchi mutt is not the ultimate authority of Hindu religion. For that matter, there is no single authority for Hindu religion. Even political organisations like BJP, VHP etc are all self appointed supreme authorities of Hindu religion which personally I don't recognise.
Keeping politics aside, can you please write sir, what is the self-regulation that prevents the mutt from opening admissions into vedic schools to others? Yes, there is no single authority in hinduism. But does that matter. The mutt clearly directs all smartha brahmins to follow certain things. And such directives affect all communities. And in this day and age, the concept of birth-based segregation is unacceptable and unlawful.
Again Sanskrit is not the ultimate language to reach the God. Alwars, Nayanmars and others have realised God through our mother tongue Tamil. They belong to various castes. Inspite of discrimination, Nandanar,Thiruppanazhwar like daliths have realised God. Why not the present the footsteps of their own caste predecessors.
On what basis, can we recommend to other what they must follow or not? I do not know if we have any birth-right to decide for others, how they must live their life.
By law, one cannot supress equality and one cannot practice birth-based caste segregation. And if some institutions / individuals profess such an attitude, they can very well be questioned for having such a biased discriminative approach that affects the society as a whole.
My view is it is purely an issue is being made out of a non-issue when just Kanchi Mutt alone is targeted for teaching vedhas to all communities. When Kanchi Acharyas themselves are discriminated in doing poojas to temples controlled by their own Kamakshi temple, why target them for some other thing.
Kanchi mutt is not "alone targetted". No idea why you have this sense of persecution, when none exists. In spiritual life, there is
no room for segregation. And that is all that is being conveyed.
When other vedic schools have admitted all, the question asked is why only kanchi mutt refuses to admit, openly practices birth-based segregation, and prescribes smrithis (with no clarification on what is to be followed and what is to be discarded).
Last week I spoke to Hindu Religious and endownment commission authorities for change of Gurukkal in our village sivan temple. They refused my request saying that since he is a hereditary priest, he cannot be replaced. He doesn't know any mantra, not at all sincere in his job and greedy. He has obtained a certificate from a saiva agama patasala in Palani to perform pooja. I don't who is recognising such a patasala. The whole affair is totally unregulated and is controlled by a single `Gurukkal' community. I am sure similar things will be happening with respect to Vaishnavite Battachariar and Poojari qualifications.
That is why there needs to be regulation. There was a news item sometime back that a high-priest of a well-known temple in kerala did not know basic mantras. The regulatory part cannot come with exclusive isolation. There needs to be participation from all hindus in temple affairs.
Let there be meritocracy and democracy, where a man gets to choose his vocation based on his abilities and inherent inclinations (varna), instead of birth-based segregations.
Kanchi mutt doesn't have any say in it. Then how can we conclude that Kanchi mutt has total control of Hindu religion. The vedha patasalas run by Kanchi mutt are mostly supported by Smartha Brahmin community which produces personal priests for smartha brahmins. It is purely a personal affair of smartha brahmin community which I think should not be questioned when similar things are happening elsewhere in other communities. Again the socalled Vedha Patasalas doesn't produce experts on four vedhas. Those who pass out mostly recite vedhas without knowing its meanings which is accepted by smartha brahmin community.
But Kanchi mutt directs smarthas to live life in certain ways. And it does affect other communities. The mutt fails to realise that some law portions of smrithis are inapplicable in this day and age. They cannot practice birth-based segregation. And this sir, is NOT a personal affair at all. It is a social issue.
And please do note, again, that purohits produced by the schools do not perform functions for smartha brahmin grihastaas alone (how can they survive if they serviced just one community). They do very well function as priest and perform rituals for other communities too.
They are trained to guide functions like Amavasya Tharpanam, Upanayanam, Shrardam, Marraige, Apakarmas etc for the smartha brahmin community which is outside the scope of other communities following their own practices.
Except upanayanam and a few other rituals, i think you have overlooked the fact that things like marriage, tharpanam, sharadam, etc are performed by other communities too. And priests do perform these rituals for other communities.
Sir, looking at all these posts from you, it cud seem to others that you are practically painting a picture as though smartha-brahmins are a seperate religion unto themselves.
Why other communities wants to encroach the patasalas of smartha brahmin community. I don't understand the motive.
The "motive" can actually seem to be on the other side, that is, on the side of the mutts -- why do some mutts wish to keep the practice birth-based segregation alive in this day and age (when caste discrimination is considered unlawful)? Why do they prescribe adherence to smrithis (without clarifying what to follow and what to discard)?
Most of the city temples are not under the control of Hindu Religious Endownment Commission and are run as private institutions. We openly admit Muslims and Christians in Vaishnavi temple, Thirumullaivayai and allow ladies of these religions perform poojas directly to Devi. Caste system is not practiced much in cities and I fully endorse the view that daliths should get formal education and migrate to cities to avoid caste based discrimination in villages. But still 70% of the population lives in villages which has to change.
So sir, you do seem to accept that urban hindus, in general are not sectarian. However, i fail to understand how this is related to admission in vedic schools.
The Saiva and Vaishnava priests are not trained by Vedha Patasalas run by Kanchi mutt. Even Poojaris of NB community are not trained by them. Those who migrate outside India are managing a priest of temples for functions which is normally practiced. In villages, the normal smartha Purohit will not do any function or accept Dakshinai from other communities may be due to caste based controls in villages. But in Cities, towns and abroads, no such practice is followed. Cost of living is very high in Cities & abroad and to manage their revenue, they dilute their traditions. Personally I am not against it. Those who pass out of Kanchi mutt run Vedha patasalas are also no exception to this practice.
So sir, again, you do seem to agree that purohits do not function as purohits for smartha brahmin community alone.
Btw, sir, my wedding was conducted by priests who do not belong to any temple. So were the weddings of several people in my family. Purohits who either train from vedic schools or learn the profession from their father, do function as purohits for other communities too.
Once a purohit passes out of a vedic school run by a vedha patasala including those patronised by Kanchi Mutt, the patasala has no control over them. They perform poojas and other functions to all communities in Cities and Abroad. Personally I have no objection to the practice since the purohits have to make a living. My only grouse is that they are becoming highly commercial and greedy. Probably NB community pays more money to them as compared to their smartha counter parts and hence they are becoming more commercial and greedy.
Vedha Patasalas supported smartha brahmin community admits only smartha brahmin brahmachary boys. Let other communities run their own vedha patasalas and admit all communities.
All these vedha patasalas are totally un-regulated. Then what is the sanctity of getting recognition from Kanchi Mutt.
No sir, i do not think the prists are getting greedy at all. Infact, some (greedy) people i know have under-paid priests. Looking at the high living costs, they have every right to charge the amount they do.
Why do you think other communities should run their own veda patshalas? Yes other communites can very well finance veda patshalas but what you are suggesting is a "groupism" attitude, not an inclusive approach; and further bifurcation along those lines. Why so sir, only for social image? Because it is a "disgrace' to admit NBs to kanchi vedic schools? So other vedic schools which admit all have become "disgraceful" institutions in your eyes? Sometimes, sir it is rather comical to read such propositions from you, about how other must live, when you fail to see that caste discrimination is an unlawful activity in the present times.
People like me who stayed back in Tamilnadu are facing discrimination from Governments both the center and state in education, employment etc. We learned to live with the problem.
Sir, you as a brahmin are not the only person that faced discrimination. I, a much younger person and an NB, also faced the same so-called "discrimination".
If you can discriminate and control admissions to vedic schools based on birth-based segregations, why cannot the government discriminate using the same birth-based segregations for college admissions? So unlawful practice (by mutts) becomes handled by the government as legalized legislation. And why should NBs (who get no reservations) have to face this scenario for no fault of theirs.
But when the brahmin community follows certain practices which they have traditionally inherited it is being criticised by other communites.
Nobody is criticizing practices of the brahmin community sir - i hope you will understand that clearly someday.
The only 'practice' of the brahmin community that is being criticized is the system of birth-based segregation and discrimination the the level of the mutts and religious institutions.
There is no point criticizing politicis, other religions, missionaries, british, etc, etc...when the problem is within the house.
When brahmins in Tamilnadu practice their own traditional practices, others don't have any right to comment upon it.
Sorry sir, they do. Because it affects other communities.
If somebody wants to start vedha patasala, let them start. Even those purohits qualified out of Kanchi Mutt patronised vedha patasalas will come to teach the students irrespective of the student community. Kanchi mutt has no authority to recognise or de-recognise it. It is a totally unregulated affair. Why make big fuss out of it.
Why make a big fuss about admitting others to kanchi vedic schools? Well, i suppose it is a question of "disgrace", an image / ego problem....isn't it?
I am just opposing interference in the personal practices of smartha brahmin as well their traditional guru Sankara Mutt. That is all.
The practices are not personal. They pertain to the society / the masses / other communities. Birth-based segregation is not a personal affair when practiced with other 'individuals'. There is no way one can claim that it is a personal affair or that such practices are 'personal'.
The question asked is plain and clear -- why are kanchi veda patshalas practicing an unlawful system of birth-based segregations?
