Is the petition justifiable

[tks]

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Vaagmi Sir,

If you consider my point as taking the discussion to a low level, you also should NOT write about Chidambaram temple!

God blesses everyone who believes HIM but only the humans make the differences and give priorities to some.

P.S: You are not a Saivite and will never know how some priests in Bhooloka Vaikuntam treat them like untouchables!!

Mrs RR - I applaud your assertive expressions
Narrow mindedness comes in many forms and expressions. We should dislike the sin and not the sinner in the process of expressing our objections. You are doing fine from that point of view

 

[CHANDRU1849]

1. They know very well that Hariyum Sivanum oNNu! :decision:

2. No need to feel ashamed, if one follows Guru of another sect of brahmins!

3. Do you mean to say that Iyers should not pray Vishnu and his other forms? That is not fair. :nono:

Human beings, if have faith in Religion, can worship any God.

In the pretext of Hariyum Sivanum Onnu, Iyers should not indulge in silly things. But Siva and Hari have different identity marks, which have to be scrupulously followed by their devotees.

Iyers are to sport only Vibhuthi and not namam. What is the harm in sporting Vibhuthi and worship perumal. Will perumal pluck the eyes? Jeers should not be worshipped by Smarthas, since they are not our Acharyas. At the most, we can respect them.

Here, both the Iyers and the Jeer concerned have no decorum and discipline in following the customs and conventions. Jeer's act is nothing but indulging in conversion, though temporary. If the Jeer is really genuine, he should not take Iyers with him. Probably, he has crude satisfaction of seeing Iyers sporting namam.

These Iyers even will sport namam permanently if the Jeer ensures Laddu, Puliothorai, Akkaravadisal etc. on a regular basis.

This is a perfect example of religious fanaticism from Jeer and ignorance from Iyers. What is the use of having such people in Iyer fold? Iyer community can very well perish.

If this is the situation, what right do we have to criticize an Iyengar lady converted to Christianity? In this case, it is permanent and not temporary.

 

[prasad1]

Chandruji,
I do belong to Iyer community. But my ancestors were Vishnu worshippers. My Uncles even today Use Chandan and Tilak. We are from Tanjore district. All male members on my fathers side have vaisnav names. I have enquired about my clan in this site. Sangomji tells me that he has heard of such a clan.
I personally do not have any taboo or preferences. I have accepted the Advaita philosophy, and everything is Brahman to me.

Why do you keep raking up this difference agains and again?

Harihara, also spelled Hari-hara , in Hinduism, a syncretic deity combining the two major gods Vishnu (Hari) and Shiva (Hara). Images of Harihara (also known as Shambhu-Vishnu and Shankara-Narayana, variants of the names of the two gods) first appeared in the classical period after sectarian movements, which elevated one god as supreme over the others, had waned sufficiently for efforts at compromise to be attempted.

Do we have to compete in narrowness of our mind? It seems to be a fight to find the bottom, why not rise up, and let the other have the bottom.

My Guru was not even a brahmin. I have been a member of Swami Chinmayanda.

 

[vgane]

Chandruji,

Smarthas worship both Hari & Haran...Please do not create a new religion of only Shiva worship! Just because a few Vaishnavas are overtly following discrimination, it does not mean that we should condemn Vaishnavas...We can highlight such cases but let us not overstep and create a deep divide where none exists that creates animosity which is not good for the TB site.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I do belong to Iyer community. But my ancestors were Vishnu worshippers. My Uncles even today Use Chandan and Tilak. We are from Tanjore district. All male members on my fathers side have vaisnav names. I have enquired about my clan in this site. Sangomji tells me that he has heard of such a clan.
I personally do not have any taboo or preferences. I have accepted the Advaita philosophy, and everything is Brahman to me.

In one of my earlier blogs, I mentioned about embracing Vaishnavism by Vadamas and Brahacharanams to join Ramanuja, who was born Vadama. One of my room mates (Brahacharanam Sect from Srirangam) belonged to that category. In the name Advaitha philosophy, we should not confuse and indulge in indiscipline and inconsistency.

Conversion is a routine thing which is taking place in all Religions. Hence, Iyers become Vishnu worshippers is not a new thing. I have come across lot of Brahmin Christians.

Why do you keep raking up this difference agains and again?

I am just pointing out the indiscipline among Iyer community. It has to be taken positively and mistakes corrected, if possible.

Harihara, also spelled Hari-hara , in Hinduism, a syncretic deity combining the two major gods Vishnu (Hari) and Shiva (Hara). Images of Harihara (also known as Shambhu-Vishnu and Shankara-Narayana, variants of the names of the two gods) first appeared in the classical period after sectarian movements, which elevated one god as supreme over the others, had waned sufficiently for efforts at compromise to be attempted.

Hari-Hara and Shankara-Narayana are names commonly prevalent only among Iyers. Have you come across such names in Iyengar community?

Do we have to compete in narrowness of our mind? It seems to be a fight to find the bottom, why not rise up, and let the other have the bottom.

Following one's customs and conventions scrupulously is not narrow mindedness. Deviation is ignorance, lack of knowledge or fear.

My Guru was not even a brahmin. I have been a member of Swami Chinmayanda.

Why do you bring caste here? There are very good Gurus (Acharyas (?)) in NB community, who are not indulging in temporary conversion.

Time and again, some members bring Advaitham for every thing to substantiate their theory, when deviation is pointed out. Advaitham is not a Religion but only a Philosophy, which can be accepted or ignored.

How can we call people who just want to have an easy darshan of God change their caste?

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

Vaagmi Sir,

If you consider my point as taking the discussion to a low level, you also should NOT write about Chidambaram temple!

That pot will always call a silver kettle black. Hence ignore that (cracked)pot.

God blesses everyone who believes HIM ......

But thiru(????)arangan will bless only iyengars.

P.S: You are not a Saivite and will never know how some priests in Bhooloka Vaikuntam treat them like untouchables!!

That is Bhooloka Vaikundam.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

.....how can we call people who just want to have an easy darshan of god change their caste?

brahmins.

 

[renuka]

How can we call people who just want to have an easy darshan of God change their caste?

dear Chandru,

Do you really think people have Darshan of God at temples?

People throng temples to ask for something or the other.

Even if God were to stand in front of them..they will tell Him 'Not now..move away I am busy" and keep on asking for something or the other.

No one actually prays in a temple..its just a Stock Market!

 

[krish44]

why bring in stock market ? it is irrelevant

we do not ask for anything in stock market

have you ever played the markets?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Chandruji,


Smarthas worship both Hari & Haran...Please do not create a new religion of only Shiva worship! Just because a few Vaishnavas are overtly following discrimination, it does not mean that we should condemn Vaishnavas...We can highlight such cases but let us not overstep and create a deep divide where none exists that creates animosity which is not good for the TB site.

There is a separate sect called Veerasaiva who worships only Shiva.

Why are you bringing all Vaishnavas here? Lot of NB Vaishnavas are having names of Saivite Gods, and are visiting Saivite Temples also.

The point raised here is about the attitude of Iyers following customs and conventions. As an Iyer, who wants to follow the customs scrupulously, I don't find any wrong in pointing out discrepancies. It is not the question of visiting only Shiva or Perumal Temple. It is proper adherence.

There are divisions among Iyers and Iyengars in customs and convention, naming children, even wearing Madisar after marriage etc. Such fact cannot be denied. A famous Iyengar cricketer, who has since retired, married an Iyer girl. His mother in an interview said that her daughter in law is from a different religion - Shiva Madham.

There is no harm in following one's religious practices without deviation and, at the same time, accommodating others. That is only true secularism.

If you want a united Brahmin community, different formalities should be abolished and create common code acceptable to all. I don't know why some Iyers want to degrade themselves in the name of unity. Unholy alliance will never succeed.

Instead of advising me, you can better tell Iyengar friends to change their practices, name their children with the name of Saivite Gods etc., and follow 'HARIYUM SIVANUM ONNU CONCEPT' seriously, and Jeers to stop temporary conversion.

 

[renuka]

why bring in stock market ? it is irrelevant

we do not ask for anything in stock market

have you ever played the markets?

Desire fuels a stock market.I hope you see the point now.

 

[renuka]

There is a separate sect called Veerasaiva who worships only Shiva.

Why are you bringing all Vaishnavas here? Lot of NB Vaishnavas are having names of Saivite Gods, and are visiting Saivite Temples also.

The point raised here is about the attitude of Iyers following customs and conventions. As an Iyer, who wants to follow the customs scrupulously, I don't find any wrong in pointing out discrepancies. It is not the question of visiting only Shiva or Perumal Temple. It is proper adherence.

There are divisions among Iyers and Iyengars in customs and convention, naming children, even wearing Madisar after marriage etc. Such fact cannot be denied. A famous Iyengar cricketer, who has since retired, married an Iyer girl. His mother in an interview said that her daughter in law is from a different religion - Shiva Madham.

There is no harm in following one's religious practices without deviation and, at the same time, accommodating others. That is only true secularism.

If you want a united Brahmin community, different formalities should be abolished and create common code acceptable to all. I don't know why some Iyers want to degrade themselves in the name of unity. Unholy alliance will never succeed.

Instead of advising me, you can better tell Iyengar friends to change their practices, name their children with the name of Saivite Gods etc., and follow 'HARIYUM SIVANUM ONNU CONCEPT' seriously, and Jeers to stop temporary conversion.

Even though I might not think like Chandru but I see his point.

Why is he asked to have more neutral views when Vaishnavas can be down right hard core brutal in approach?

Some posts here are evident that Hell Hath No Fury Like a Vaishnava Scorned!LOL

So for each action there has to be a reaction..so Chandru might have his valid points and he is only reacting to situations created by others.

We have to weigh both sides of an argument.

 

[krish44]

desire fuels so many actions .why single out stock market as if all evil in the world is confined to the stock market.

in addition to a decent investment avenue protecting money against inflation , it is a source of income for the retired.like fixed deposits or any other financial instrument

to dismiss it off as a demon fuelling desire is not wise .

 

[sarang]

I am from srirangam. I will appreciate what special privileges are given to which group. Is it -
1. Special preferred entry after special seva kalams?
2. Prasad is given to only some and not given to others.
3. Theertham, sadari, tulasi, manjakkappu given only to the special group and no one else.
4. Allowed to break the queue at any time and allowed to spend more time than any one else.
If you care to elaborate specifics, they can be explained or analysed.

Srirangam temple gives special privilege to one group of brahmins.

Don't we call it BhoolOka Vaikuntam?
P.S: May be because of this discrimination, you entered that temple on your special DAY!! :decision:

 

[Raji Ram]

Mrs RR - I applaud your assertive expressions
Narrow mindedness comes in many forms and expressions. We should dislike the sin and not the sinner in the process of expressing our objections. You are doing fine from that point of view

Thank you very much T K S Sir.

 

[Raji Ram]

Chandruji,

Smarthas worship both Hari & Haran...Please do not create a new religion of only Shiva worship! Just because a few Vaishnavas are overtly following discrimination, it does not mean that we should condemn Vaishnavas...We can highlight such cases but let us not overstep and create a deep divide where none exists that creates animosity which is not good for the TB site.

Well said, Ganesh! Thanks for this post.

 

[Raji Ram]

Chandru Sir!

It is YOUR wish if you wish to pray ONLY Lord Shiva.

You can not make fun of others who pray Lord Vishnu and his other forms.

Some people try to bring unity among all brahmin sects from the South and the North India

whereas, you try to make the mind of one sect very narrow! That is not at all fair. :nono:

BTW, ThiruvaLLuvar has written:

'vAymai enappaduvadhu yAdhenin yAdhondrum
theemai ilAdha solal.'

My Iyer friends did not commit any crime by disguising in a different attire because all that they wanted was

to have a good dharshan of the Lord and that will NOT harm any other person! Their lie comes under 'vAymai'!

 

[renuka]

My Iyer friends did not commit any crime by disguising in a different attire because all that they wanted was

to have a good dharshan of the Lord and that will NOT harm any other person! Their lie comes under 'vAymai'!

Dear RR ji,

It is indeed a "semi crime"..to be what a person is not.

This is deceit in my opinion..even if it is for a Darshan.

Without truth what can anyone achieve?

 

[renuka]

Dear Chandru,

I see tables turning against you now.

A person of firm conviction is praise worthy..whether its Brutal or Honest or even down right illogical.

So keep up ..if you feel you are right,carry on..everyone always feels they are right.

So technically no one is right..everyone is wrong.

Its just that everyone is 'fighting' to secure the 1st place even in being wrong!LOL

 

[sarang]

For the first time I saw Raviraj banians advertising for panchakatcham veshtis in tv. Katcham was a traditional dress for all tamil hindus, not exclusive to brahmins alone. Wish more and people of all varnas wear this gear for those occasions when formal wear can be kept aside. Obviously there is an emerging market for this.

BC mamas can wear an angavastrm, both the veshti and top gear suitably prepared for easy wear.

 

[dhikshita]

In a democracy (india last I know was one), public places must be open to all. I agree that in a private property the owner has to have the privilege of granting right of entry.
Rules become obsolete, and can and should be changed. The only way to change obsolete rule is through public pressure.
If enough public pressure was not applied South Africa still will be under Apartheid rule, blacks in USA still will be segregated. So clamoring for change is human nature, and denying it without due consideration is wrong.
I do not know if Guruvayoor temple is private or public property.
In my personal opinion, all places of worship is God's place, and we human are only caretakers. So should be open to all (EXCEPT for security reason). This is for all religions.

Rules become obsolete, and can and should be changed. The only way to change obsolete rule is through public pressure.
In my personal opinion, all places of worship is God's place, and we human are only caretakers. So should be open to all (EXCEPT for security reason). This is for all religions.[/QUOTE]

Prasad1 Sir,

A realistic suggestion, if heard in the right perspective by the authorities who manages the Lord Krishna's Dewaswom, the life time ambition of Padma Bhushan Dr K.Jesudas will be fulfilled as also the Rasikas of Dr.K.Jesudas. Before Lord everyone is equal. Eagerly awaiting to hear the news that Dr.K.Jesudas has been allowed to perform concerts before Lord Krishna in Guruwayoor Temple, with a positive thinking that everything is possible with the public pressure.Simultaneously it would be a honour to the administrators to spread the message that unity in diversity. His Guru's (Sri Sri Sembai Vaidynatha Bhagavar) blessings will help him to get this bliss.

 

[renuka]

I sometimes wonder why Jesudas too expresses sentiment of going into Guruvayur Temple.

After all he sings Lord Krishna devotional bhajans..and if he sings it with Bhakti and Bhava,he would experience the "presence" of Lord Krishna which no temple on earth can ever deify.

 

[Vaagmi]

sri tks said:

Let us relate each other as people first and open the gates of our temple to visitors who pledge to follow rules of the temple with respect.

Agreed. No dispute with this position.

 

[krish44]

Dear RR ji,

It is indeed a "semi crime"..to be what a person is not.

This is deceit in my opinion..even if it is for a Darshan.

Without truth what can anyone achieve?

renukaji
I had gone to a vaishnavite temple with wife in tamilnadu-considered a divyadesam temple. in late afternoon

i am a vaishnavite brahmin by birth.

it was closing time with hardly anyone except the priest.

there was a board saying upper garments are not allowed.

I stayed at entrance and let my wife go in for puja.

the priest was told about my reluctance to enter on this account by my wife.

the priest came out and took me in and performed the puja with my wife standing next to me.

what do you think of this.?

both parties ,priest and me violating together the laid down rules.

we will go to hell together .lol

 

[Vaagmi]

RRji said:

1. They know very well that Hariyum Sivanum oNNu!

Hariyum Sivanum allavum yesuvum ellaamum onnu thaan. So it is better to wear burqua and go to temple.