Is the petition justifiable

[Raji Ram]

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RRji said:



Hariyum Sivanum allavum yesuvum ellaamum onnu thaan. So it is better to wear burqua and go to temple.

appadi illeenga sAmi!! :nono:

burqua pOttA, masoodhikkup pOgaNum; pottu vaikkAma, Churchukku pOgaNum;
madisar saree / six yards saree uduththi, kOvil pOgaNum! :decision:

idam poruL Eval-innu EdhO irukku, illeengaLA? :lol:

 

[Raji Ram]

RR said:



That is okay. We can form any impression depending on the frame of our mind particularly when coming across immature people. But could you please elaborate what made you feel untouchable in that temple?

What else? The expression shown by some priests there! :rant:

 

[renuka]

Dear RR ji,

Once there was a person I knew who used to be a member in a full Brahmin forum which only allowed Brahmins to join.

He used to forward to me what he felt would be useful for me.

Then after a while I told him that I did not feel right receiving info thru deceit that is he was forwarding to me what he was reading there which was clearly meant only for their members.

I told him to stop sending me the info as I said to him anything learnt thru deceit wont last and I will only learn what is freely given to me which I can buy or read online.

So I still feel your Iyer friends should have never posed as Iyengars to get a Darshan.
They disrespected the Namam by just putting it on for a day.

Remember Kumarilla Bhatta? He gave up his life for falsely posing as a Buddhist.

So RR ji..your friends did commit a crime.

 

[Raji Ram]

2. Tamilnadu Govt. subsidises those who visit Macca for a Haj pilgrimage. You can join next time. And I think some sort of concession is available for a visit to Vatikan too. There is no such subsidy for those who visit booloka vaikuntam or booloka kailasam. You are on your own.

3. Your PS: I understand. Please do not visit. That is perfectly okay and I have nothing more to say. LOL.

2. FYKI, Osila kidachcha phenyl kudikkaRa ALu nAn illai !! :nono:

andha mAdhiri ALu kittE pOy sollunga! :blah:

3. Thanks for the understanding!

 

[Raji Ram]

Moral of the story: Monopolies should never be challenged. LOL.

​Yep!! :thumb:

 

[Raji Ram]

........... So my mum finally sat with me in the NB section(which is also fine becos my dad is NB)

So you see RR ji..one should not do anything with deceit in a temple.

Not everyone is like you, Renu!

Variety makes our life interesting!

I could see some pride in my friend's eyes, when she narrated the episode of entering the temple in disguise!

Some people don't mind telling lies for the sake of a VIP dharshan.

P.S: I am sure you won't do that!

 

[Raji Ram]

My answer to Vaagmi Sir will clear the doubt in Sarang Sir's mind - whether I will visit Mecca or not!!

 

[Raji Ram]

......... Remember Kumarilla Bhatta? He gave up his life for falsely posing as a Buddhist.

So RR ji..your friends did commit a crime.

Dear Renu,

You keep forgetting that my friend is just a simple lady, who wanted to have a dharshan of Lord Balaji on a very crowded day!

It was one of the disciples of the SwamigaL, who gave the idea to disguise as IyengArs and she happily accepted!
So, may be, more % of crime goes to the one who gave that idea! opcorn:

P.S: Renu! Since you might open an Ashram soon, better know whatever is worn does not actually change the soul !

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Renu,

You keep forgetting that my friend is just a simple lady, who wanted to have a dharshan of Lord Balaji on a very crowded day!

It was one of the disciples of the SwamigaL, who gave the idea to disguise as IyengArs and she happily accepted!
So, may be, more % of crime goes to the one who gave that idea! opcorn:

P.S: Renu! Since you might open an Ashram soon, better know whatever is worn does not actually change the soul !

A manipulative lady and not so simple.

OMG. Now the blame has been passed on to the Jeeyar ultimately. This is manipulation par excellence.

What a crowd!

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Renu,

You must know how keen the bhakthAs are to have a glimpse of the Lord!

Hence, some are ready to go in disguise, with a V I P group!

Having the glimpse of the Lord is the lofty aim used here to sublimate a mistake.

Going in disguise is getting one up on the fellow devotees who wait patiently for the darshan thinking about the LOrd.

Manipulation thy name is ...........!! LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

appadi illeenga sAmi!! :nono:

burqua pOttA, masoodhikkup pOgaNum; pottu vaikkAma, Churchukku pOgaNum;
madisar saree / six yards saree uduththi, kOvil pOgaNum! :decision:

idam poruL Eval-innu EdhO irukku, illeengaLA? :lol:

Puthiya Aaththichchoodiya. Ammaa thaangamudiyaleenga.

 

[Raji Ram]

A manipulative lady and not so simple.

OMG. Now the blame has been passed on to the Jeeyar ultimately. This is manipulation par excellence.

What a crowd!

I have already written already about this episode sometime back, in our forum. You have missed that post!

BTW, it was NOT the Jeeyar but one of his disciples, who gave the idea!

Why should I manipulate? It is the job of some others. :juggle:

 

[Raji Ram]

Puthiya Aaththichchoodiya. Ammaa thaangamudiyaleenga.

inimElum indha izhaiyai javvu pOla izhukkaadheenga!

nandRi! vaNakkam! :wave:

 

[Vaagmi]

What else? The expression shown by some priests there! :rant:

Ada Raamachandra!! thottaa chinungi maathiri ithu paarththa chinungiya? pochchuda. Next time I visit the booloka vaikuntam I must tell the bhattacharya there to wear a smile(not a grin!) from ear to ear unchanged. And offer them a can of volini spray to relax the muscles after the duty is over. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

inimElum indha izhaiyai javvu pOla izhukkaadheenga!

nandRi! vaNakkam! :wave:

okay ceasefire agreed on. Stop all hostilities. Shanti Shanti.

 

[sarang]

Was it jeer sathumurai sevai? I thought only vishnavite males join the sevai.
This excerpt is from one veshadari, in his own words.

"This is what we did

a) Took bath and sported veshti and mel thundu (uthriyam)

b) Prominent namam (Vadakalai or Thengalai, both are ok i guess)

c) Poonool is a must

d) Have to shave off all facial hair or have both moustache and beard ; only moustache or only beard not allowed

e) Shave off an inch above the ear all through the sides

f) Shave off sidelock / sideburns

Hit the queue at around 6.30 am and i guess you should be easily part of the jeeyar's entourge."

Better to leave it to devout vaishnavites.

Dear Renu,

You keep forgetting that my friend is just a simple lady, who wanted to have a dharshan of Lord Balaji on a very crowded day!

It was one of the disciples of the SwamigaL, who gave the idea to disguise as IyengArs and she happily accepted!
So, may be, more % of crime goes to the one who gave that idea! opcorn:

P.S: Renu! Since you might open an Ashram soon, better know whatever is worn does not actually change the soul !

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Chandruji,

1. Iyengar friends will name their children with Shivas name the day Iyers name their children with Christian and Islamic names. LOL. Please name your child Abdul Rehman or David Irudayaraj and then come ask Iyengars to name their children as Chandru in the name of one God concept.

Sir,

I am happy that you agree with my point about discipline needed for different brahmin sects. From your statement, Iyengars cannot and will not change.

I will definitely prefer Muslim or Christian name the day your entire family becomes a staunch Saivite, praising only Lord Shiva instead of Vishnu. But you cannot escape from a situation that warrants you to name your children Obama Vaagmi or Mariam Vaagmi. I wish you don't come across such a situation, and maintain your loyalty only to Jeers, instead of Mecca or Vatican or Caterbury (if the situation warrants to become Protestant).

It is not the jeeyar who is eager to convert anyone. It is the Iyers who want to have darshan of Lord Venkateswara through short cut route who want to wear naamam(temporary spot changing LOL). Ask RRji she will confirm. The Jeeyar never even come there. He visits at a different time to have darshan.

What is the role of Acharya. He should not allow short cut methods and wear pattai namam by those who are not supposed to. Why didn't he stop non-DASANU DASARAS to have easy darshan and laddu, by wearing pattai namam. The Acharya should guide the devotees properly, irrespective castes and identity. It shows that he is not a 'ACHARAMANA ACHARYA', but 'INCONSISTENT ACHARYA'.

 

[sarang]

even in this forum you find some self styles guardians of saivite ansd vaishnavite sects called TBs who try to decide what others should do in religeous matters.

Some have thoroughly misunderstood and seeing ghosts which are not there. All matams, vaishnavam, shaivam and many more exist, have a place and have coexisted for thousands of years. I wish the so called 'moderns' would do a course on any sect of sanatana dharma, read deivathin kural or any any sampradayic vaishnava literature, to understand their real worth. Every guru, acharya, adeenam head has to value and protect his mutt, traditions, practices, philosophy and way of worship.

 

[krish44]

sarangji
What members of vaishnavite and saivite sects are doing in this thread.

is this happy coexistence?

what are what are the gurus, acharyas, adheenam protecting and against what and whom.?

It s plain disgusting.

I think we can put an end to this thread.it is not a healthy dialog between members.

 

[prasad1]

I think it is a "middle school Pissing contest", (boys in the field will test the distance). It is too childish.
Who has seen Vishnu or Shiva? These differences are purely man made. Fortunately for younger generations it does not seem to make any difference. Two of my nephews are married into Iyyangar family. At least we are still cordial when we meet. The kids in the family are all named a mix of shavite, vaisnavaite, or other names. Most of the Hindu temples in North America have Shiva, Vishnu, Devi, ganesh, mahavir jain, Iyyappa, and some I do not even understand.

There is XXXXX Temple in New York, which was built as strict Iyyangar Temple. The temple had draconian rules. Women were not allowed in Kitchen, only ordained priests were allowed. The place is so run down and dirty that health department had to close the kitchen. The priests brought from India refused to clean the floors. The priests would use shawl to cover their upper body against the rules. (it is cold with snow on the ground).

The Vardraja Temple is run by Shankar Mattam in Kanjipuram.

Who really cares about some personal quirks, codified into rules by some forgotten person long ago.

I have a cousin who was some big shot in TVS, and was able to get the MD of TVS group to participate in kumbashikam for a shiva Temple. Money Talks.
The same person goes even to Sri-Rangam temple with lot of Vibhuti on his forehead, and gets special privileges because he knows the devestanam board member who accompanied us.
It all connection and money that speaks loudly than any prescribed rules.

 

[renuka]

sarangji
What members of vaishnavite and saivite sects are doing in this thread.

is this happy coexistence?

what are what are the gurus, acharyas, adheenam protecting and against what and whom.?

It s plain disgusting.

I think we can put an end to this thread.it is not a healthy dialog between members.

dear Krish ji,

Why spoil the show?

What is wrong to have a good exchange of opinions?

Its not disgusting..its Interesting!

There is nothing better than a Vishnu Vs Shiva fight!

 

[sarang]

Genuine vaishnavites and saivites can sort out after perhaps a few posts. What is disgusting is the so called 'moderns' who have strong disrespect for our (S + V +. . .) ways of life and use euphemism like secularism, humanism, unity, caste, superstition etc to abuse sanatana dharma.

sarangji
What members of vaishnavite and saivite sects are doing in this thread.

is this happy coexistence?

what are what are the gurus, acharyas, adheenam protecting and against what and whom.?

It s plain disgusting.

I think we can put an end to this thread.it is not a healthy dialog between members.

 

[renuka]

Genuine vaishnavites and saivites can sort out after perhaps a few posts. What is disgusting is the so called 'moderns' who have strong disrespect for our (S + V +. . .) ways of life and use euphemism like secularism, humanism, unity, caste, superstition etc to abuse sanatana dharma.

LOL! This is even better..now you want to rope in the "modernist" too?

Wow it will be a Love Triangle..Vaishnavites Vs Shavites Vs Modernites!

Way to go Sarang Ji.

Bring the Action!LOL

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Of late, Brahmins are scared of a Debate. Without a Debate, you cannot bring out the good and bad.

Shankara became Shankaracharya only because he won a debate establishing his Advaitha philosophy.

Similarly, Ramanuja and Madhwa established their views only thru Debate.

Earlier, Patti Manram used to do such things. Nowadays, Patti Manrams become PATTY MANDRAMS, discussing useless subject.

 

[sarang]

This is just freewheeling without either understanding or comprehension.

There are occasions with strict rules and many without specific rules. Jeer sevai is special with conditions and restrictions. Kumbabhishekam is a community event, and the people who made it possible with dhandaan and sramdaan will be honoured. In srirangam temple all devotees get the same treatment during normal darshan days. Of course people with clout (money or power) will get special treatment irrespective of their colour, creed, caste, marks or attire (army or police uniforms included).

In perumal temples, only the archakar is permitted to touch the vigraham for abhishekam and alankaram; even the jeer has no authority to do this.

So instead of generalising and behaving as superman advaitic vedantin, it is advisable to look at each issue, custom or tradition and look at it with proper knowledge and explanation.

Yes, sanatana dharma insists on rights and privileges, dos and don'ts, allowed and not allowed, shudh and ashudh. If the pious lady does not allow her unbathed children to touch her before she finishes her morning rituals, it is not untouchability.