Wedding between Tamil Brahmin and Seer Karuneegar

[tks]

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Dr Renu

Dear TKS ji,

I feel you have a problem accepting the fact that caste is birth based.

Caste is a Portuguese word and is not the same as Varna.
Varna system is one of the most stable form for a society and is based on broadness of human mind.
The social classification in India in terms of Caste is an ugly expression of human mind.
I have lived outside India for most of my adult life. In my younger days I lived in Delhi primarily and I was unaware of caste of any of my friends who visited or stayed with me in our house. I do not know the caste of anyone unless they happen to mention it in my adult life. For most part many are outside the caste system.

My parents and grand parents judging by some here were very broad minded. We followed our customs. We had a Dravidian Goddess as a Kula Daivam.

I have shared all this with you in some thread or the other.

I have no problem accepting caste is defined as birth based.

I find that you have a problem with the word Brahmin because it may mean just one thing in your mind.

The word can actually stand for a Varna name, a caste name , or its root meaning in Sanskrit or a derogatory name . When I write here I am using the meaning of the word as I understand it or its implications in the Varna system.

It has been birth based ever since and it will be birth based till one decides to go beyond caste.

As a Non Brahmin I have totally no problems accepting that caste is birth based.

Non-Brahmin is not a caste name .. You have proclaimed you are a Non-Brahmin many times in the forum. Why not state in a positive sense what you think your identity is. I do not have any idea why anyone would define themselves in the negative. Anyway I really do not care what people call themselves. You are welcome to call whatever you think you are but I just think it is unusual. If I am visiting my Chinese American friend's party where people from many background come I will not tell them I am a non-chinese.

Most Non Brahmins get angry with the caste being a birth base cos you see each human wants some amount of "superiority" in their life.
People mistake being Brahmin as a feeling of Superiority and that is where all the problem starts!

Many want this caste system to be an open system where anyone can be a Brahmin but yet these same people wont like the idea of anyone else becoming their caste..do you really think a Vaisya or a Kshatriya would like the idea of someone becoming their caste and say its not birth based?

I can safely bet no!

You see let anything be birth based and it should not matter to those who do not subscribe to it.

But it seems to matter to you as reflected in your posts. One example that come to my mind is your sharp reaction to Smt Raji's father's affectionate characterization of his Muslim friend. There had been many more like that.

I have no problems if caste is birth based cos I do not aspire to be in any of the Varnas becos for practical reasons its outdated in my opinion.

If it is outdated please do not take it so seriously!

The word Guna Brahmin is just some nonsense if you ask me...its just to justify that if someone else besides a Brahmin has good qualities..it is becos by either hook or crook he acquired some Brahmin mindset.

As one of the Veteran posters pointed out in a post some years ago the usage of the term 'Guna Brahmin' is not something that I coined. Its usage predates me. Words communicate a particular knowledge. I have defined what it means and have communicated that. Your reaction to the word Brahmin is you think there is a 'Brahmin mindset' much like one of our ex-members Nara used to define. My usage is based on the meaning of the Sanskrit word and what it represents in part. To emphasize to readers that one is not talking about caste based usage of the term Brahmin a qualified Brahmin is used to denote the context.

You are welcome to interpret the word 'Brahmin' as a 'Brahmin mindset' ONLY - I really do not know what Brahmin mindset is. As a 'Non-Brahmin' you have to explain what that term 'Brahmin mindset' mean since it will not be applying to you by your own proclamation.

The famous Satyakama son of Jabala is the best example..it only reinforced the fact that only a Brahmin could speak the truth...failing to address the issue that the father of Sathyakama did not even marry his mother and she didnt even know his name..so it was just an exploitation of the one night stand kind...since she was helpless and worked as a maid in some house.

So tell me would a true Brahmin do such stuff..to have a one night stand of this kind?

But still story makes it sound that only Brahmins speak the truth.

Stories in the great epics or our Puranas are not records of history. It is a description of human imagination on top of some historical context and such a context may not exist all the time. So I really do not want to go into analysis of who said what.

The human mind usually has to "personalize" another to feel comfortable..a person who truly respects himself and others would not give anyone caste based tags and accept the diversity of mankind and Gunas belong to none for its verily exists in Nature.

You are passing judgement and affixing motivation by evaluating what I have said from the lens of your beliefs, pride and prejudices.

If you ask a question that is specific , descriptive and done without adding motivation then I can answer that if it makes sense to me.

Now in marriage my view is that it is better to seek someone from your own ethnic and cultural background. That is why I chose to marry someone from India.

Our character is determined by the effects of countless past lives if one were to believe in the Rebirth theory. This Character is determined by Samskara in this model which is different from the Prarabdha Karma. So any community can have people of strong character going by this model and it is not restricted to any caste or those outside of a caste system.

In wedding related matters if someone asks me their opinion I will say the obvious - focus on the character first. To make this point I ask if a person is aspiring to be a 'Guna Brahmana' to distinguish the usage of the word Brahmin from the caste tag.

 

[renuka]

Dear TKS ji,

Blue are my words.

Dr Renu



Caste is a Portuguese word and is not the same as Varna.
Varna system is one of the most stable form for a society and is based on broadness of human mind.

Agreed that Casta is a Portuguese word!
Varna is my opinion is a socio economic division.


The social classification in India in terms of Caste is an ugly expression of human mind.
I have lived outside India for most of my adult life. In my younger days I lived in Delhi primarily and I was unaware of caste of any of my friends who visited or stayed with me in our house. I do not know the caste of anyone unless they happen to mention it in my adult life. For most part many are outside the caste system.

Argreed I never knew what caste is till a friend asked me when I was a teen.

My parents and grand parents judging by some here were very broad minded. We followed our customs. We had a Dravidian Goddess as a Kula Daivam.

Great! I can understand this..in fact I can safely proclaim my parents/grandparents are/were even more broadminded becos they never divided God into Aryan and Dravidian!LOL

I have shared all this with you in some thread or the other.

I too have read all your posts right up to Mannangatti files.


I have no problem accepting caste is defined as birth based.

Good..so I was wrong..good you enligthened me.

I find that you have a problem with the word Brahmin because it may mean just one thing in your mind.

Yes I do have a problem with the word BrAhmin(read on)!

The word BrAhmin should not be used by us Hindus becos in Sanskrit BrAhmin means confused and perplexed(you can check Vaman Apte Dictionary)

So its better to stick to the original word brAhmana.

The Anglicized meaning of brAhmana totally gave the word a new meaning!




Non-Brahmin is not a caste name .. You have proclaimed you are a Non-Brahmin many times in the forum. Why not state in a positive sense what you think your identity is.

For all practical purposes I am not in the Varna scale..that is an Avarna.(mixed caste)

Now to state in a positive sense what I am..I havent realized my true self yet..so nope..no Aham Brahmaasmi for me yet.


I do not have any idea why anyone would define themselves in the negative.

I was watching a show once where a Dalit was using the word Dalit and Non Dalit.

The word Non is not negative..check out the word Advaita..its means Non Dualism..do you want to say its negative? Nope!

So it's your mind which chooses to see negative and positive instead of merely thinking that the word Non is nothing but grammar.


Anyway I really do not care what people call themselves.

Exactly!


You are welcome to call whatever you think you are but I just think it is unusual. If I am visiting my Chinese American friend's party where people from many background come I will not tell them I am a non-chinese.

Me too! when I go to parties I am too busy flirting to keep stating anything else!LOL



But it seems to matter to you as reflected in your posts. One example that come to my mind is your sharp reaction to Smt Raji's father's affectionate characterization of his Muslim friend. There had been many more like that.

This is where you fail to understand..lets leave RR ji's dad out of this.

I will give you an example we see in nature.

Rabbits are gentle creatures...Lions are rarely gentle.

Just say one day a Lion is found to be gentle would we say "what a gentle Lion..he is indeed a rabbit"

We wont right? We will just think 'wow the Lion is gentle"

One can admire good qualities in a person (even if we expected him to have none) without giving him a new tag.





If it is outdated please do not take it so seriously!

I dont..its you who do and try to make it Guna Varna!LOL



As one of the Veteran posters pointed out in a post some years ago the usage of the term 'Guna Brahmin' is not something that I coined. Its usage predates me. Words communicate a particular knowledge. I have defined what it means and have communicated that. Your reaction to the word Brahmin is you think there is a 'Brahmin mindset' much like one of our ex-members Nara used to define. My usage is based on the meaning of the Sanskrit word and what it represents in part. To emphasize to readers that one is not talking about caste based usage of the term Brahmin a qualified Brahmin is used to denote the context.

Why drag Nara in..Nara is Nara..I am Renuka....look again what I wrote about the meaning of the word BrAhmin in Sanskrit.

You are welcome to interpret the word 'Brahmin' as a 'Brahmin mindset' ONLY - I really do not know what Brahmin mindset is. As a 'Non-Brahmin' you have to explain what that term 'Brahmin mindset' mean since it will not be applying to you by your own proclamation.

Did I use the word "brahmin mindset" in my reply to you? I doubt..wait let me check..Heck No! I did not use that word..so why should I answer something I did not write..as far as I know am very technical and careful with words.



Stories in the great epics or our Puranas are not records of history. It is a description of human imagination on top of some historical context and such a context may not exist all the time. So I really do not want to go into analysis of who said what.

True!



You are passing judgement and affixing motivation by evaluating what I have said from the lens of your beliefs, pride and prejudices.

That is your opinion

If you ask a question that is specific , descriptive and done without adding motivation then I can answer that if it makes sense to me.

Ha Ha Ha! Your famous dialogue.. I was waiting for this!

Now in marriage my view is that it is better to seek someone from your own ethnic and cultural background. That is why I chose to marry someone from India.

I chose to marry a tall man at least 6 feet..a good looking one who is a professional like me and also a Hindu..caste did not matter.

Our character is determined by the effects of countless past lives if one were to believe in the Rebirth theory. This Character is determined by Samskara in this model which is different from the Prarabdha Karma. So any community can have people of strong character going by this model and it is not restricted to any caste or those outside of a caste system.

Agreed! Sense at last!..so if you admit this..why give anyone caste names?
You yourself admit that any caste can have good or bad qualities..so why say Guna Brahmana or Guna Kshatriya or Guna Vaishya or Guna Shudra! I better include all 4 varnas otherwise you will start accusing me of targeting only 1 community!LOL

In wedding related matters if someone asks me their opinion I will say the obvious - focus on the character first. To make this point I ask if a person is aspiring to be a 'Guna Brahmana' to distinguish the usage of the word Brahmin from the caste tag.

Holds no Jalam!

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

Blue are my words.

From your post

"it is becos by either hook or crook he acquired some Brahmin mindset." - What is the Brahmin mindset according to you.. it is quoted from your post .. you can check

 

[renuka]

From your post

"it is becos by either hook or crook he acquired some Brahmin mindset." - What is the Brahmin mindset according to you.. it is quoted from your post .. you can check

Ok thanks..then will answer it since you provided evidence.

A Brahmin Mindset is mostly a Sattva One...but a person with a Sattva Mind need not be a Brahmana so no need for any caste tag

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Some things remain the same in this forum. Stereotyping of Brahmins is allowed either as a matter of fact or in the name of freedom of expression. But any generalization about a NB is frowned upon. Generosity towards NBs and pettiness towards Brahmins is the feature of this forum, which, considering the URL is quite an irony.

 

[renuka]

Some things remain the same in this forum. Stereotyping of Brahmins is allowed either as a matter of fact or in the name of freedom of expression. But any generalization about a NB is frowned upon. Generosity towards NBs and pettiness towards Brahmins is the feature of this forum, which, considering the URL is quite an irony.

Dear Sir,

You are mistaken..I am open to all criticism.

All I told TKS ji that the word Guna Brahmana makes no sense.

I was not targeting any community..but I dont think TKS ji wants to understood my post.(its a game he plays!LOL)

If you read my posts you can sense I am a fairly neutral person..if I am a biased person would I ask a TB girl to marry a TB instead of trying to convert her NB male friend into TB lifestyle?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Dear Sir,

You are mistaken..I am open to all criticism.

All I told TKS ji that the word Guna Brahmana makes no sense.

I was not target any community..but I dont think TKS ji understood my post.

If you read my posts you can sense I am a fairly neutral person..if I am a biased person would I ask a TB girl to marry a TB instead of trying to convert her NB male friend into a TB lifestyle?

My comment was a general comment that is not aimed at your or anybody else's posts alone.

It is my understanding of the trend in this forum.

Brahmins as a group have this tendency. In fact, I think Hindus as a group also have this tendency.

 

[tks]

Ok thanks..then will answer it since you provided evidence.

A Brahmin Mindset is mostly a Sattva One...but a person with a Sattva Mind need not be a Brahmana so no need for any caste tag

This not an evidence - you just wrote some minutes ago and in your response you said you checked when I asked you

Did I use the word "brahmin mindset" in my reply to you? I doubt..wait let me check..Heck No! I did not use that word..so why should I answer something I did not write..as far as I know am very technical and careful with wordsd



Here is the full quote from your previous post again minutes earlier

The word Guna Brahmin is just some nonsense if you ask me...its just to justify that if someone else besides a Brahmin has good qualities..it is becos by either hook or crook he acquired some Brahmin mindset.You are using the word Brahmin as an adjective if you say it is mostly Sattva ... yet you object to usage of word Guna preceding it??? - that three question mark is not a real question but pointing out a contradiction.



I think your responses are quick without reading your own writing and displays lack of depth .. I am stopping this line of discussion from my side.

I will continue using the term Guna Brahmin or Guna Brahmana since I have explained in depth to most readers. It is not something I coined but use what others have done. Besides scriptures like B.Gita refers to Guna aspects only and not birth based name.

I am not seeking agreement from you.. You are welcome to continue to object ..

 

[krish44]

This not an evidence - you just wrote some minutes ago and in your response you said you checked when I asked you

Did I use the word "brahmin mindset" in my reply to you? I doubt..wait let me check..Heck No! I did not use that word..so why should I answer something I did not write..as far as I know am very technical and careful with wordsd



Here is the full quote from your previous post again minutes earlier

The word Guna Brahmin is just some nonsense if you ask me...its just to justify that if someone else besides a Brahmin has good qualities..it is becos by either hook or crook he acquired some Brahmin mindset.You are using the word Brahmin as an adjective if you say it is mostly Sattva ... yet you object to usage of word Guna preceding it??? - that three question mark is not a real question but pointing out a contradiction.



I think your responses are quick without reading your own writing and displays lack of depth .. I am stopping this line of discussion from my side.

I will continue using the term Guna Brahmin or Guna Brahmana since I have explained in depth to most readers. It is not something I coined but use what others have done. Besides scriptures like B.Gita refers to Guna aspects only and not birth based name.

I am not seeking agreement from you.. You are welcome to continue to object ..

A big thanks to TKSji and Renukaji for terminating the discussions

the transactions have vitiated the thread and left a bad taste

what a way a start the morning!

 

[tks]

Some things remain the same in this forum. Stereotyping of Brahmins is allowed either as a matter of fact or in the name of freedom of expression. But any generalization about a NB is frowned upon. Generosity towards NBs and pettiness towards Brahmins is the feature of this forum, which, considering the URL is quite an irony.

Sri KB

Sometimes the best thing to do is to call out what is happening in a summary form.

I think your summary explains very well what turned me off when I first discovered this forum.

I know you made a general comment ...

 

[krish44]

Sri KB

Sometimes the best thing to do is to call out what is happening in a summary form.

I think your summary explains very well what turned me off when I first discovered this forum.

I know you made a general comment ...

some die hard brahmins by birth like to flex their their non existent muscles and keep posting on a daily basis after saying they are turned off

this is double talk typical of born brahmins who claim superiority by birth and put down everyone else who challenge any of their views. they think all the worldly

knowledge is concentrated only in them and run down non brahmins. it is a mindset. It is best to ignore them

 

[renuka]

This not an evidence - you just wrote some minutes ago and in your response you said you checked when I asked you

Did I use the word "brahmin mindset" in my reply to you? I doubt..wait let me check..Heck No! I did not use that word..so why should I answer something I did not write..as far as I know am very technical and careful with wordsd



Here is the full quote from your previous post again minutes earlier

The word Guna Brahmin is just some nonsense if you ask me...its just to justify that if someone else besides a Brahmin has good qualities..it is becos by either hook or crook he acquired some Brahmin mindset.You are using the word Brahmin as an adjective if you say it is mostly Sattva ... yet you object to usage of word Guna preceding it??? - that three question mark is not a real question but pointing out a contradiction.



I think your responses are quick without reading your own writing and displays lack of depth .. I am stopping this line of discussion from my side.

I will continue using the term Guna Brahmin or Guna Brahmana since I have explained in depth to most readers. It is not something I coined but use what others have done. Besides scriptures like B.Gita refers to Guna aspects only and not birth based name.

I am not seeking agreement from you.. You are welcome to continue to object ..

LOL!

I scanned thru what I wrote fast..so I must have missed it..what is wrong with that?In fact said thanks to you for providing evidence that I could have missed it.

BTW I am glad you want to terminate the discussion..I feel the same about your posts too..It has no depth.

BTW since you have a ??? which you claim are not questions but rather contradictions on my part..let me clear your ??? by saying that in Sanskrit the terminology for a person suffused with Sattva Guna is guNavAn..and NOT Guna Brahmana.

So for all practical purposes Guna Brahmana does NOT exists.I have yet to see any religious text specifically using the word Guna Brahmana.Even the Bhagavad Geeta does NOT use this word.Geeta talks about Gunas and thats all!

So if you see a person who is not from the 1st Varna and having Sattva Guna..call him a guNavAn..its neutral and does not give a varna tag!

 

[renuka]

A big thanks to TKSji and Renukaji for terminating the discussions

the transactions have vitiated the thread and left a bad taste

what a way a start the morning!

Dear Krish ji,

Truth seldom tastes good!LOL

 

[கால பைரவன்]

some die hard brahmins by birth like to flex their their non existent muscles and keep posting on a daily basis after saying they are turned off

this is double talk typical of born brahmins who claim superiority by birth and put down everyone else who challenge any of their views. they think all the worldly

knowledge is concentrated only in them and run down non brahmins. it is a mindset. It is best to ignore them

It is not a one-way street.

The constant urge exhibited by some to criticize Brahmins, born brahmins or otherwise, as if they themselves are of exemplary character and thought and devoid of any flaws is disgusting as well.

 

[rishikesan]

Dr Renuka;s comments @#85

As far as I know he was not known to spend much money even though he came from a well to do home..I dont think he would have spent money on such magazines.

We girls used to buy to check out the centre folds..actually nothing really great or to shout about...most of the centre folds were fat!LOL

But the magazines also had good recipes and other information especially politics.

Dear Dr Renuka, After reading your comments @ # 85, I am able to appreciate your practical outlook of Brahmin community . The reasons are :- Your advice to the girl is that she MUST open-up first & foremost with her parents, . secondly I would prefer to bring in his Lover only after getting explicit approval of parents , who are the only ones who care utmost for you, that too in these days of Selfishness all over.
Second , & most practical advice given by you is to be insisted to all Girls , is this :- Why not fall in line with the parents selection duly discussing your views for & against & ultimately come to unanimous decision to marry that Guy. This would be the BEST ,because except parents & real good friends none, I repeat none else would come to your rescue , in later years if you want independently go for marriage a any N.B.
One more point , we have to learn for ourselves in this forum, that is all of us prefer to comment on the subject , mostly giving extraneous comments, lead us nowhere for a real suggestion , not amounting to any solution ? This comment has come from the girl herself ?One thing for sure :- Since it is impossible to suggest any real , practical route in such cases , because of the simple reason that it is the Individual;s problem of LIFE & except parents , none else can contribute usefully.
Can ALL of us desist from offering comments , just for the sake with no responsibility attached & leave the Girl in the LURCH & get the fair name of T.B , tarnished ?
Hope you agree
Rishikesan

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

My opinion is that you sometimes go out of the way to criticize brahmins and brahmin culture. I find most of your posts trying to tease brahmins and their tradition which I think is not healthy. It is in the interest of having useful discussions that one needs to try to offer views in a balanced way and not be influenced by prejudices. I know you are smart and hope you understand there is a strong bias against brahmins that you project in your writings.

 

[sarang]

The present environment in the country and the ruling class have a strong and healthy respect for our past, culture, traditions, literature, languages and communities - jathis and sects. And as in the past, it is gradually understood that all communities can follow their inherited culture, tradition and manners without stepping on others' toes. The so called secular group have vitiated the atmosphere by targeting sanatana dharmic groups and one sect in particular brahmins. Now the pseudo secular nature and behaviour as exhibited by minority appeasement, passing unfriendly laws affecting hindus only, is well understood and exposed.

The more we get close to our traditions and learn our scriptures through our own interpreters (not foreign translators) we will understand their real meaning and the universality buried in them. Variety in looks, behaviour , traditions and practices is built in and we are always comfortable in living with and accepting variety. We have fallen prey to the play of words branding us by the imported words - hindu, caste, religion, non-brahmin etc. which are not native.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

My opinion is that you sometimes go out of the way to criticize brahmins and brahmin culture. I find most of your posts trying to tease brahmins and their tradition which I think is not healthy. It is in the interest of having useful discussions that one needs to try to offer views in a balanced way and not be influenced by prejudices. I know you are smart and hope you understand there is a strong bias against brahmins that you project in your writings.

Dear Sravna,

I am rather surprised to read this coming from you.

I have no idea what made you think so.

I merely state my opinion on anything..I have openly given my opinion on various topics in Forum ranging from Religion to Humor.

I would like to remind you that stating an opinion is not called criticizing in my vocabulary.

I have objected to many topics here in the past and supported many too.

I hope you remember that I am also a Hindu .. a religion that shares common tradition across all 4 Varnas..so when I so call "criticize" something it can also be my very own tradition that is so happened also in Hindu tradition shared by other Varnas or in this case since you said Brahmins.

Let me give am example..In the Worshipping while menstruating thread I have stated my opinion that I dont find any logic in that..now this culture of not worshiping during menses is also practiced by other Varnas besides the Brahmin Varna.

In another thread I wrote that wearing saree for a simple function is a waste of time.Saree is worn by all Indian woman regardless of caste isnt it?

So can you say by my criticizing all these practices I am being an Anti Brahmin?
If you really want to call me something you can at least say Anti Tradition!

That would be fair and I would also agree..but saying that I am biased against Brahmins is an accusation.

All your arguments would only hold good if I was NOT a Hindu and totally an alien in terms of culture.

When I wrote anything it was merely my expression and nothing else.

BTW why am I even explaining? Its not me who is having a problem..I can understand if some others felt this way but from you I am very very surprised.

Anyway its not my problem to solve.

I am reminded of the lyrics of a song.. "If there was a problem Yo" I'll solve it" but now I am going to sing 'If you have a problem..Yo' you solve it"!LOL

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Thanks for responding. I finally said it is that projection that seems to be there and as an unbiased reader that's what I felt. But after seeing your explanation, I am really happy that my true opinion of you as one who is bold and forthright in expressing her views even if controversial, is intact.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Thanks for responding. I finally said it is that projection that seems to be there and as an unbiased reader that's what I felt. But after seeing your explanation, I am really happy that my true opinion of you as one who is bold and forthright in expressing her views even if controversial, is intact.

Dear Sravna,

The reason I was surprised that you thought I was biased is becos I always thought that your vision was beyond the petty differences of life.

For a moment I was shocked to read what you wrote but after reading that you have truly understood my nature I am also happy to note that you are indeed the same Sravna who sees beyond petty differences.

Glad to know my impression of you is also still intact.

BTW dont give in to projections..that's Maya!LOL

 

[C RAVI]

I see!!

 

[sravna]

BTW dont give in to projections..that's Maya!LOL

That should explain why I was taken in by it

 

[renuka]

That should explain why I was taken in by it

I can understand..cos for a moment even I was taken it by it and wondered why Sravna wrote that post..then I quickly decided to explain and Thank God we both came out of that Maya.

 

[Vaagmi]

Tks in #135

Sri KB

Sometimes the best thing to do is to call out what is happening in a summary form.

I think your summary explains very well what turned me off when I first discovered this forum.

I know you made a general comment ...

Krish44 in 136

some die hard brahmins by birth like to flex their their non existent muscles and keep posting on a daily basis after saying they are turned off

this is double talk typical of born brahmins who claim superiority by birth and put down everyone else who challenge any of their views. they think all the worldly

knowledge is concentrated only in them and run down non brahmins. it is a mindset. It is best to ignore them

Renuka in 138

Truth seldom tastes good!LOL

My this post takes into account all that is expressed in the above three posts:

1. I do not believe in passively letting go whatever vilifying and mocking is attempted here at Brahmins. I would prefer to present a counter point of view so that the silent reader gets the picture clear. So whatever I post here is not for the frequent poster members here. It is rather to present the views of the silent Brahmins (by birth) who should not go unrepresented here. Moreover without a counter the thread becomes totally onesided and we all joining together punch at the Brahmins, tear them to shreds, restitch, iron and hang again to come back and start punching another day. So tksji, fight with all your might and don’t give up. The forum may benefit with the insight you may be providing and the anonymous reader who reads will get the complete story.
2. People who come with the view that any one uttering the word Brahmin has to be a superiority addicted chauvinist pig, are unable to understand that people can call themselves Brahmins and yet have not even a trace of superiority complex. Brahmin is the word that is available and understood by all and so they use it. We all can join together and coin a new word for Brahmin community and start using it if it will put an end to this misconception.
3. Brahmins are Brahmins by birth. Genes matter. Those genes carry a certain possibilities just like a kshatriya gene carry a certain other possibilities. The progressive or regressive gene expressions make a Brahmin behave like a kshatriya at times and a kshatriya behave like a Brahmin at times. There is sufficient scientific evidence to prove that the genes are mutated and influenced by the environmental/cultural factors. So a Brahmin carries a certain evolved gene in him and this is not the same as the evolved gene of a kshatriya. While there is nothing superior or inferior about the Brahmin or kshatriya, the fact that Brahmin is not a kshatriya is a scientific fact which stands. This matter has been discussed adequately in this forum in many threads and those who are interested may go to the archives to read them.
4. If Brahmins as a community wants to preserve a certain lifestyle and live as a unique community in the hindu society what is the problem for the others in that? Why should they try to fanatically homogenize the society? Heterogeneity is beautiful and beneficial. Why destroy it? I am not entering into politics here because politicians are strange animals and they come in all hues. They have unfailing instinct to sense money and will do exploit any situation to make money. They will tell us that brah ins are superior dogs who have for centuries exploited all the other communities. I do not believe that it is true. And I leave it at that.
5. Now coming to IC marriages, I look at it this way:

If I were escaping a deluge in a plane at the end of the world (a pralaya sort of deluge) and my plane crashed on an island and I find I am left with just one more survivor, a dark and short and ugly woman, I will marry her and start a new civilization. That would be the most sensible thing to do in that situation. There my being a Brahmin and she being a milecha would not really matter. Similarly we have among our members here two varieties-one those who are born to mixed parents(Brahmin and NB) and those who are born to Brahmin parents but have settled down in distant continents. These groups have by circumstances got themselves into a situation where they have a different value system. Their children are growing up like the citizens of those continents where they have settled down. The values are different. They have no other go but to follow the customs that are followed in those distant places. Thus for instance, a girl in US has to go dating with friends a number of times before finally settling down on one as a life partner. And if there was a mistake she can quickly get out of the relationship too and take up another. In India it is not that easy. The values are different here.

1. It would be nice of such BIOs (Brahmins of Indian Origin) if they do not preach and prescribe their life style and their value system (repeatedly presenting the utter nonsense that they are more broad-minded, holding liberal values etc.,) to brahmins who live in India. They are a community which is lost to an alien culture/ civilization for ever and have no luck to choose a Brahmin for their son/daughter as Brahmins in India have. They can marry any white, black or yellow from the country of their adoption and leave Brahmins in India to live peacefully with their methods and advantages.
2. When you argue from the distant shore about the meaning of guna Brahmin or the thri gunas mentioned in BG it is all academic hair splitting and enjoyable in its own way for it is an intellectual debate. But when it comes to advising an Indian Brahmin girl to”boldly” choose a NB boy it is a strange value system trying to impose itself on another time-tested and strong native one. We, the Brahmins in India resent it. Please keep your counsel with you and do not extend across the oceans to us. We have enough hotheads of a homegrown variety here to contend with. Enough is enough. Thanks and shut up please.

 

[krish44]

in physics there is a phenomenon called hysterisis effect . morning transactions between two honourable members have made others question each others credentials.

it must be a left over of morning discussions .

there is an attempt to shoot the messenger than getting the message sent out

there is a strong need for tolerating view points given by people of different mindsets without personally attacking them

Times have changed.

unless we respect all castes and religion , brahmins wll face extinction. the onslaught on them by people of other castes and religion has made them vulnerable .

TB girls are increasingly finding it uncomfortable to continue with brahmin mates who are not responding to their needs and aspirations . there are many Maash now.

this might snowball into a rebellion by them against the order set to by the brahmins to continue to disregard and crush their voice of disapproval and dissent.

when brahmins face these issues of their girls looking increasingly to other communities for mates ignoring them , the truth will dawn on them that their views

are hopelessly outdated . their children will change them if not this forum members.