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Wedding between Tamil Brahmin and Seer Karuneegar

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in physics there is a phenomenon called hysterisis effect . morning transactions between two honourable members have made others question each others credentials.

it must be a left over of morning discussions .

there is an attempt to shoot the messenger than getting the message sent out

there is a strong need for tolerating view points given by people of different mindsets without personally attacking them

Times have changed.

unless we respect all castes and religion , brahmins wll face extinction. the onslaught on them by people of other castes and religion has made them vulnerable .

TB girls are increasingly finding it uncomfortable to continue with brahmin mates who are not responding to their needs and aspirations . there are many Maash now.

this might snowball into a rebellion by them against the order set to by the brahmins to continue to disregard and crush their voice of disapproval and dissent.

when brahmins face these issues of their girls looking increasingly to other communities for mates ignoring them , the truth will dawn on them that their views

are hopelessly outdated . their children will change them if not this forum members.

A lot of sweet nothings. Just an example:

unless we respect all castes and religion , brahmins wll face extinction. the onslaught on them by people of other castes and religion has made them vulnerable .

Brahmins respect all castes and religions. But there is no reciprocation. Other castes want to cannibalise the brahmin caste. Other religions want to convert them.

So Krishji, don't you think you should fight rather than uttering such sweet nothings and waiting for the "sambhavami yuge yuge" to happen? LOL.

Nothing personal. Easy please.
 
A lot of sweet nothings. Just an example:

unless we respect all castes and religion , brahmins wll face extinction. the onslaught on them by people of other castes and religion has made them vulnerable .

Brahmins respect all castes and religions. But there is no reciprocation. Other castes want to cannibalise the brahmin caste. Other religions want to convert them.

So Krishji, don't you think you should fight rather than uttering such sweet nothings and waiting for the "sambhavami yuge yuge" to happen? LOL.

Nothing personal. Easy please.
jews got a separate country israel

where can brahmins go if they fight. lol
 
jews got a separate country israel

where can brahmins go if they fight. lol

Why do you think the super brahmin Obama exists there. He will welcome brahmins. That would work mutually beneficial like in the case of jews of US. He gets a super brains trust and brahmins get a land to live in peacefully doing their sandhya daily. All his existing problems will be solved quickly whether it is switching with mind without a matter interface, super string theory to explain everything satisfactorily, a miniature nuclear weapon the size of a Beer bottle without compromising on its potency (he can take it on his AirForce 1 jet and throw it down on his enemy country to have the satisfaction that he did it personally), a super grain just one piece of which if eaten will keep you going for a year etc. etc., LOL. We have the trust and he has the organizing ability. It is mutually beneficial. LOL.
 
Post #149
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Sri Vaagmi

Somehow your generalization about Indian's lifestyle about living in far away places (from you ) is not correct. In fact many families I know follow TB customs and values not because they have to but because they have chosen to. The choice is made because of understanding of the significance. I personally know many arranged marriages that are very successful among people born in USA to TB and other parents.

When we visit India and Chennai we are astounded to see total lack of understanding and aping the west among the middle class. More than aping we find a fake adoptation of values in many that is a turn off.

The lady who posted the OP is talking about 'my guy' which means she is already dating the person mentioned in the OP. Prioritizing character attributes over all other factors in choosing a marriage partner is not an advice that is applicable to those living in far away lands. It applies in arranged marriages also.
 
in physics there is a phenomenon called hysterisis effect . morning transactions between two honourable members have made others question each others credentials.

it must be a left over of morning discussions .

there is an attempt to shoot the messenger than getting the message sent out

there is a strong need for tolerating view points given by people of different mindsets without personally attacking them

Times have changed.

unless we respect all castes and religion , brahmins wll face extinction. the onslaught on them by people of other castes and religion has made them vulnerable .

TB girls are increasingly finding it uncomfortable to continue with brahmin mates who are not responding to their needs and aspirations . there are many Maash now.

this might snowball into a rebellion by them against the order set to by the brahmins to continue to disregard and crush their voice of disapproval and dissent.

when brahmins face these issues of their girls looking increasingly to other communities for mates ignoring them , the truth will dawn on them that their views

are hopelessly outdated . their children will change them if not this forum members.

Well said.

The story of the scorpion
Do not change your nature. If someone hurts you, just take precautions. Some pursue happiness while others create it. Let your conscience be your guide in whatever you do."
 
TKSji,


When they run out of reasonable answers they cloak in flag of the country, party, religion or their clan and attack others. That is the taliban way.
 
Let me complete it. ".......and call others worm in a mud hole in the distant village of India, the country of narrow minded brahmins with no liberal values."
 
This requires first a definition of brahminism. Please define it.

BRAHMINISM:

DEFINITION #1: AS DEFINED IN THE BAGWAD GITA. But those conforming to this defintion had lived only during the times of Veda Vyasa. In the current times, these are a few in number, you can count with your fingers.

DEFINITION #2: HYPOCRISY, EGOISM, EGOTISM, ARROGANCE, PRIDE, CONCEIT, MEAN, FEEBLE, UNSCRUPULOUS, SELF-EXULTANT, SELF-RIGHTEOUS, SUPERIORITY COMPLEX, VAAGMI ET AL


The remaining queries do not merit any response from a Human Being.
 
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Dear sri vaagmi sir,

i am not intelligent or matured enough to advise you. but my humble request to you is "dhushtargalai kandal (perhaps dhushti) dhoora vilagungal'.
 
This is in reply to Kuvalayavalli s latest post. I am amused. And I wonder when will the sheep (herded by shepherds of various hues) get back to be a human being to understand brahmins-not brahminism.
 
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Sri TKS.

I do not come here to post my words without measuring them. I have personal experience of having lived away from my country. I understand your point of view. But my experience with second and third generation tb families living in those countries form the basis for my views. If u belong to the first gen pio in a foreign land it is just a question of time for the values to change. But I understand. The civilisation does not wait. Lol.
N
 
Sri TKS.

I do not come here to post my words without measuring them. I have personal experience of having lived away from my country. I understand your point of view. But my experience with second and third generation tb families living in those countries form the basis for my views. If u belong to the first gen pio in a foreign land it is just a question of time for the values to change. But I understand. The civilisation does not wait. Lol.
N

What I do not see you acknowledge is what is happening to the current generation of TB in India.
My children speak Tamil well. They follow customs even in the dorms because they understand the values.
They are usually surprised when we visit places like Chennai.

I also know many TB couples married in India not working out because the emphasis was all on caste and place of origin instead of looking at the total person which includes character.

When I was growing up the concept of dating was nonexistent except in the case of rich & elite.
Today many in India and especially in cities like Chennai , Bangalore, Mumbai, and Delhi have gone all the way in adopting the western ways. It is easy to find people calling themselves brahmins stylishly boasting about their specialized taste in eating meat and throwing away all symbols of significance and boasting about it. All they have done is retained their sense of narrow mindedness and feelings of superiority.

Strong values based on universal principles do no belong to any land though I have learnt to respect many of our customs due to their significance and in helping to upkeep the values which in turn serve to minimize conflicts in our mind.

You may not like this but the existing superficial culture will become extinct in a few generations in India and other places. New breed of people from other cultures are beginning to adopt the best of what our culture has to offer and they will carry the torch of learning and teaching universal principles and values.
 
What I do not see you acknowledge is what is happening to the current generation of TB in India.
My children speak Tamil well. They follow customs even in the dorms because they understand the values.
They are usually surprised when we visit places like Chennai.

I also know many TB couples married in India not working out because the emphasis was all on caste and place of origin instead of looking at the total person which includes character.

When I was growing up the concept of dating was nonexistent except in the case of rich & elite.
Today many in India and especially in cities like Chennai , Bangalore, Mumbai, and Delhi have gone all the way in adopting the western ways. It is easy to find people calling themselves brahmins stylishly boasting about their specialized taste in eating meat and throwing away all symbols of significance and boasting about it. All they have done is retained their sense of narrow mindedness and feelings of superiority.

Strong values based on universal principles do no belong to any land though I have learnt to respect many of our customs due to their significance and in helping to upkeep the values which in turn serve to minimize conflicts in our mind.

You may not like this but the existing superficial culture will become extinct in a few generations in India and other places. New breed of people from other cultures are beginning to adopt the best of what our culture has to offer and they will carry the torch of learning and teaching universal principles and values.
there are many in india and abroad who are frozen in time

india of today is of one night stands ,live in and short lived marriages.

ladies are equal to men in all ways

they are choosey about what they want and what they will put up with

they will walk out if their terms are not met

one cannot abuse educated women and expect them to suffer traditional types who are mental cases tied to their mothers aprons

they will get into relationships caring two hoots about caste ,subcaste ,horoscope or religion and walk out of unhappy relationships if it does not suit them

if men do not change and face the new indian women on equal footing , they will have to stay with their mothers or on their own

matrinmonial sites are full of old TB boys in thirties whom no girl wants as a mate

mostly they have missed the marriage bus.lol
 
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Dear Renuka,

My opinion is that you sometimes go out of the way to criticize brahmins and brahmin culture. I find most of your posts trying to tease brahmins and their tradition which I think is not healthy. It is in the interest of having useful discussions that one needs to try to offer views in a balanced way and not be influenced by prejudices. I know you are smart and hope you understand there is a strong bias against brahmins that you project in your writings.

Sravnaji,

Everybody has prejudices, you and I included and they are included in our posts. Nobody is God here.
 
The problem with people posing as liberals here is that they do not even understand the true meaning of being liberal. For them, being liberal is being anti-tradition. This is the narrow defintion with which they base their arguments. So any counter argument is an outdated argument to them. Can this actually hold? A hundred years later, what is considered liberal now will appear "traditional" to the people pretending to carry the torch of liberalism then. If equal freedom becomes the norm, should that be opposed in the name of being liberal, a few centuries from now?
 
What I do not see you acknowledge is what is happening to the current generation of TB in India.
My children speak Tamil well. They follow customs even in the dorms because they understand the values.
They are usually surprised when we visit places like Chennai.

I also know many TB couples married in India not working out because the emphasis was all on caste and place of origin instead of looking at the total person which includes character.

When I was growing up the concept of dating was nonexistent except in the case of rich & elite.
Today many in India and especially in cities like Chennai , Bangalore, Mumbai, and Delhi have gone all the way in adopting the western ways. It is easy to find people calling themselves brahmins stylishly boasting about their specialized taste in eating meat and throwing away all symbols of significance and boasting about it. All they have done is retained their sense of narrow mindedness and feelings of superiority.

Strong values based on universal principles do no belong to any land though I have learnt to respect many of our customs due to their significance and in helping to upkeep the values which in turn serve to minimize conflicts in our mind.

You may not like this but the existing superficial culture will become extinct in a few generations in India and other places. New breed of people from other cultures are beginning to adopt the best of what our culture has to offer and they will carry the torch of learning and teaching universal principles and values.

Time does not stand still. If you come to India with the expectation to see the old time India of your younger days, you will certainly be disappointed. If in your days, you spent time with your friends by going to movies which were tear jerkers and puranic tales/love triangle yarns now it is lovvu everywhere. In your days if it was paavaadai-thavani for the curvaceous girls it is jeans and sleeveless shirts these days. If it was dhoti and pant for boys in your days it is bermudas and T shirts everywhere these days-from 90 years old oldie to 18 years old young boy. That is the march of time and it may appear to be imitation or aping but really it is not. It is not--because the basic values have not changed in a big way, the culture remains the same even today, the middle class that is the bulwark of brahmin culture still values the importance of remaining in a family committed to it. The kind of loose morals, indiscipline and aping of the west are all there in the higher class brahmin society but not in the middle class which is the largest chunk. I speak about majorities and there is always scope for exceptions which is human nature.

Any marriage which does not take into account the character of the groom or bride is bound to fail ultimately. There is no two opinions about it. But when you look for a suitable match within the community you are sure about atleast a few familiar things. Let me try to make it easy. Caste is like brand equity. I go to the market to buy an electric bulb. I look for only the best brands like Havell or Philips and don't even look at others. It is because of my experience with the product in the past. But after choosing a bulb I also see whether the individual piece is okay in all aspects-whether its filament is in place, whether the base is firmly fixed to the glass bulb etc., The retailer even connects it to the power and shows that it really works. I have learnt from experience that the brand gives me an assurance about many of my concerns. Please for heaven's sake do not immediately extend this example to bring in superiority/inferiority conundrum. Let us keep that aside and take this example of brand equity just in a limited way. The caste tag of brahmin is like the brand equity and it is based on solid scientific evidence as well as everyday experience in this world. Why should I ignore that and pick up from the attractive looking competitive products that come from china these days, which fail in two days or work well depending on how lucky I am? I am not comfortable with intangibles like luck.

In your days the concept of dating was not there because it was a different time with different circumstances/opportunities. Where is the scope for you to date a girl if all the privacy that was available was only the temple prakaaram, city bus journey, family get togethers which were marriages, upanayanams etc.? These days girls are bold and they also know how to manage a date harmlessly. Every date here does not end up in an unwanted pregnancy. These days tb middle class working girls go out on dates after either the marriage is fixed or just prior to that to know the boy better. They call of the proposal if they find the proposed partner is not upto the mark they have in their mind. This is very different from the numerous dating episodes of girls in west. I do not want to go further deep into this. You must be knowing it better. About meat eating, it is again the pressures of the time. Not everyone goes and eat meat or chicken. There are those who do that due to peer pressure and perceived need to live upto the expectation of their love.

Dear friend it is not superficial culture. I would prefer to call it basic values. Even a boy who eats meat a few times with friends in hotels never dares speaking about it to his father, mother, brother or sister. I call it the pangs of growing up. Even Mahatma Gandhi went through this. Many of these boys return back to their basic values and live a normal life as a brahmin. A few go deep into the alien ways and are lost in it for ever. But that is the tyranny of exceptions and there is no escape from that.

When britishers came our veda chanting, puja performing, poonal wearing brahmins had to change. They did that well. They retained their tuft but learnt to wear and live with the uncomfortable turban over it. They retained their poonal but wore a shirt, tie and a coat over it. They did not go for the pant because the kachcham was as good as a pant. And they rose up the ranks of the elite retaining all that.

I am optimistic that our culture will not die. It may undergo periodic modification but will retain the essence of it always in tact. The reason why I am optimistic is because the values are good by universal standards. Like truth which does not require something else to show it our basic values are great and they will stay put.

I cared to give a detailed reply because I understand your position and your genuine interest in a debate. Thanks for your time.
 
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Time does not stand still. If you come to India with the expectation to see the old time India of your younger days, you will certainly be disappointed. If in your days, you spent time with your friends by going to movies which were tear jerkers and puranic tales/love triangle yarns now it is lovvu everywhere. In your days if it was paavaadai-thavani for the curvaceous girls it is jeans and sleeveless shirts these days. If it was dhoti and pant for boys in your days it is bermudas and T shirts everywhere these days-from 90 years old oldie to 18 years old young boy. That is the march of time and it may appear to be imitation or aping but really it is not. It is not--because the basic values have not changed in a big way, the culture remains the same even today, the middle class that is the bulwark of brahmin culture still values the importance of remaining in a family committed to it. The kind of loose morals, indiscipline and aping of the west are all there in the higher class brahmin society but not in the middle class which is the largest chunk. I speak about majorities and there is always scope for exceptions which is human nature.

Any marriage which does not take into account the character of the groom or bride is bound to fail ultimately. There is no two opinions about it. But when you look for a suitable match within the community you are sure about atleast a few familiar things. Let me try to make it easy. Caste is like brand equity. I go to the market to buy an electric bulb. I look for only the best brands like Havell or Philips and don't even look at others. It is because of my experience with the product in the past. But after choosing a bulb I also see whether the individual piece is okay in all aspects-whether its filament is in place, whether the base is firmly fixed to the glass bulb etc., The retailer even connects it to the power and shows that it really works. I have learnt from experience that the brand gives me an assurance about many of my concerns. Please for heaven's sake do not immediately extend this example to bring in superiority/inferiority conundrum. Let us keep that aside and take this example of brand equity just in a limited way. The caste tag of brahmin is like the brand equity and it is based on solid scientific evidence as well as everyday experience in this world. Why should I ignore that and pick up from the attractive looking competitive products that come from china these days, which fail in two days or work well depending on how lucky I am? I am not comfortable with intangibles like luck.

In your days the concept of dating was not there because it was a different time with different circumstances/opportunities. Where is the scope for you to date a girl if all the privacy that was available was only the temple prakaaram, city bus journey, family get togethers which were marriages, upanayanams etc.? These days girls are bold and they also know how to manage a date harmlessly. Every date here does not end up in an unwanted pregnancy. These days tb middle class working girls go out on dates after either the marriage is fixed or just prior to that to know the boy better. They call of the proposal if they find the proposed partner is not upto the mark they have in their mind. This is very different from the numerous dating episodes of girls in west. I do not want to go further deep into this. You must be knowing it better. About meat eating, it is again the pressures of the time. Not everyone goes and eat meat or chicken. There are those who do that due to peer pressure and perceived need to live upto the expectation of their love.

Dear friend it is not superficial culture. I would prefer to call it basic values. Even a boy who eats meat a few times with friends in hotels never dares speaking about it to his father, mother, brother or sister. I call it the pangs of growing up. Even Mahatma Gandhi went through this. Many of these boys return back to their basic values and live a normal life as a brahmin. A few go deep into the alien ways and are lost in it for ever. But that is the tyranny of exceptions and there is no escape from that.

When britishers came our veda chanting, puja performing, poonal wearing brahmins had to change. They did that well. They retained their tuft but learnt to wear and live with the uncomfortable turban over it. They retained their poonal but wore a shirt, tie and a coat over it. They did not go for the pant because the kachcham was as good as a pant. And they rose up the ranks of the elite retaining all that.

I am optimistic that our culture will not die. It may undergo periodic modification but will retain the essence of it always in tact. The reason why I am optimistic is because the values are good by universal standards. Like truth which does not require something else to show it our basic values are great and they will stay put.

I cared to give a detailed reply because I understand your position and your genuine interest in a debate. Thanks for your time.
hi sir,


nice words...i like it....nice write up...thanks for that....i beleive the same...may be some modifications...im very optimistic...i can give

a small.example....my son got poonal ceremony in 9 yrs of age....he is raised in USA...he likes his poonal very much...he is now 13 yrs old..

he wears his poonal very much...even some white boys bullied abt his poonal in theschool...he said that he is proud of his poonal.

even though he is not doing sandhyanandanam three times a day...he is not much religious too..BUT HE LIKES HIS POONAL SO


MUCH...


I am optimistic that our culture will not die. It may undergo periodic modification but will retain the essence of it always in tact. The reason why I am optimistic is because the values are good by universal standards. Like truth which does not require something else to show it our basic values are great and they will stay put.




 
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Time does not stand still. If you come to India with the expectation to see the old time India of your younger days, you will certainly be disappointed. If in your days, you spent time with your friends by going to movies which were tear jerkers and puranic tales/love triangle yarns now it is lovvu everywhere. In your days if it was paavaadai-thavani for the curvaceous girls it is jeans and sleeveless shirts these days. If it was dhoti and pant for boys in your days it is bermudas and T shirts everywhere these days-from 90 years old oldie to 18 years old young boy. That is the march of time and it may appear to be imitation or aping but really it is not. It is not--because the basic values have not changed in a big way, the culture remains the same even today, the middle class that is the bulwark of brahmin culture still values the importance of remaining in a family committed to it. The kind of loose morals, indiscipline and aping of the west are all there in the higher class brahmin society but not in the middle class which is the largest chunk. I speak about majorities and there is always scope for exceptions which is human nature.

Any marriage which does not take into account the character of the groom or bride is bound to fail ultimately. There is no two opinions about it. But when you look for a suitable match within the community you are sure about atleast a few familiar things. Let me try to make it easy. Caste is like brand equity. I go to the market to buy an electric bulb. I look for only the best brands like Havell or Philips and don't even look at others. It is because of my experience with the product in the past. But after choosing a bulb I also see whether the individual piece is okay in all aspects-whether its filament is in place, whether the base is firmly fixed to the glass bulb etc., The retailer even connects it to the power and shows that it really works. I have learnt from experience that the brand gives me an assurance about many of my concerns. Please for heaven's sake do not immediately extend this example to bring in superiority/inferiority conundrum. Let us keep that aside and take this example of brand equity just in a limited way. The caste tag of brahmin is like the brand equity and it is based on solid scientific evidence as well as everyday experience in this world. Why should I ignore that and pick up from the attractive looking competitive products that come from china these days, which fail in two days or work well depending on how lucky I am? I am not comfortable with intangibles like luck.

In your days the concept of dating was not there because it was a different time with different circumstances/opportunities. Where is the scope for you to date a girl if all the privacy that was available was only the temple prakaaram, city bus journey, family get togethers which were marriages, upanayanams etc.? These days girls are bold and they also know how to manage a date harmlessly. Every date here does not end up in an unwanted pregnancy. These days tb middle class working girls go out on dates after either the marriage is fixed or just prior to that to know the boy better. They call of the proposal if they find the proposed partner is not upto the mark they have in their mind. This is very different from the numerous dating episodes of girls in west. I do not want to go further deep into this. You must be knowing it better. About meat eating, it is again the pressures of the time. Not everyone goes and eat meat or chicken. There are those who do that due to peer pressure and perceived need to live upto the expectation of their love.

Dear friend it is not superficial culture. I would prefer to call it basic values. Even a boy who eats meat a few times with friends in hotels never dares speaking about it to his father, mother, brother or sister. I call it the pangs of growing up. Even Mahatma Gandhi went through this. Many of these boys return back to their basic values and live a normal life as a brahmin. A few go deep into the alien ways and are lost in it for ever. But that is the tyranny of exceptions and there is no escape from that.

When britishers came our veda chanting, puja performing, poonal wearing brahmins had to change. They did that well. They retained their tuft but learnt to wear and live with the uncomfortable turban over it. They retained their poonal but wore a shirt, tie and a coat over it. They did not go for the pant because the kachcham was as good as a pant. And they rose up the ranks of the elite retaining all that.

I am optimistic that our culture will not die. It may undergo periodic modification but will retain the essence of it always in tact. The reason why I am optimistic is because the values are good by universal standards. Like truth which does not require something else to show it our basic values are great and they will stay put.

I cared to give a detailed reply because I understand your position and your genuine interest in a debate. Thanks for your time.

Sri Vaagmi

I have no issues with anything you have written. In the end a culture aligned with universal values will survive the test of time/changes/invasion. There is an invasion of western culture in progress. Please perceive (using your way of expressing) that some of us live the values in other countries outside India because of our understanding and appreciation of its alignment with universal principles.

My son had his Upanayanam and until he went to college he was doing Sandhyavandahanam two to three times a day. Now a days it is sporadic but he is far better in his conviction than I was at his age. My children dont like me to talk about them anywhere. I am using this example to make a point is that they know reasons behind many of our customs. When one knows the 'why' it is easier to practice the 'what' with good self esteem.

Carnatic music is not exclusive property of TB obviously but it does promote synergy of many values in my understanding.
Here is a youtube video of a set of concerts given by US Citzens (of Indian origin) few months ago. I happen to know some of them well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VM3_K0qFsQ&index=2&list=PLknQrCFWdDDbUM4ulBGz3wbWePvMcpBQI

In the one above link a kid Hariharan Ravi sings like Semmangudi (studying at UPenn first year), accompanied by top quality Violinist Kamal Kiran (high schoolkid) and Arjun at Mridangam (first year in college now).

The links were sent to me by a friend.

When something is done out of choice and understanding the Shraddha is high.

The 'knowledge' will go on living in other countries as well ..

Now the issue in this thread is that a woman in the OP is already dating someone. We do not know what 'dating' in this context means. Regardless this woman thinks of life of a Brahmin by cultural examples only like how a Saree is worn. In my view telling such a person to just listen to her mother will not work. The mother referred to here is *probably* not very well versed as to what it means to live the life of a Brahmin fully given that her way to convince her daughter is about citing cultural examples and using the threat of being excommunicated.

This young lady in the OP seem to care deeply about her mother and her approval. Hence my suggestion to this young lady is to focus on character of the person she wants to marry first. If it is not exemplary then she herself may withdraw. If the dating has progressed well towards marriage already it will be not proper in my view to tell her to stop and find a TB for all the wrong reasons. It will not be fair to the future TB boy as well.

The issue then is one of convincing the mother which is what the OP is about. Even if the whole OP is made up it is a good example in my view. The idea is to mature up and stop unnecessary suffering by accepting the results by giving the mother that the man in question is of high character.

If someone is looking to get married I would agree to start with a proper 'brand name' for compatibility (not superiority that you correctly assert).
 
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Dear Folks,

The idea of varna system possibly unintentionally fostered the belief that certain people are more privileged than others. In the present age when equality is such a major issue, the notion of exclusiveness of some people will never be accepted. Knowingly or unknowingly, the feelings of superiority has become deep rooted among many brahmins. This is what I think is really unacceptable to others.

This notion of superiority is also felt by some other communities in other parts of the world, notably the jews, the white Americans etc. but people do not seem to have a problem with that. That is not the issue though and I am not trying to defend the notion of superiority. In fact it is in the best interests of brahmins, to really not feel that way. If people feel that the brahmins do not harbor such notions they would be more at ease with them.

In addition and importantly too, brahmins need to exhort people on what they are good at and what they have preached for centuries which is the need to focus on inner self and its development. Brahmins have to genuinely work towards reestablishing a harmonious society .That way they can also show that the knowledge they possess is of real value and can be used for the good of humanity.

The varna system has turned in to notorious form which is the caste system and it is in the best interests of all to see such a caste system is uprooted totally. The teachings of Hinduism would still be very valid even with just the focus to make everyone realize that the real self is the inner self and that is what needs to be developed.
 
Sravnaji,
I am with you to a great extent. At individual level we can be at peace with our POV. I am not for any organized birth based grouping. We can strive to be what ever we want to achieve, it does not have to be at the expense of some one else's feelings. We should not feel and definitely not rub others with our presumed superiority.
 
Time does not stand still. If you come to India with the expectation to see the old time India of your younger days, you will certainly be disappointed. If in your days, you spent time with your friends by going to movies which were tear jerkers and puranic tales/love triangle yarns now it is lovvu everywhere. In your days if it was paavaadai-thavani for the curvaceous girls it is jeans and sleeveless shirts these days. If it was dhoti and pant for boys in your days it is bermudas and T shirts everywhere these days-from 90 years old oldie to 18 years old young boy. That is the march of time and it may appear to be imitation or aping but really it is not. It is not--because the basic values have not changed in a big way, the culture remains the same even today, the middle class that is the bulwark of brahmin culture still values the importance of remaining in a family committed to it. The kind of loose morals, indiscipline and aping of the west are all there in the higher class brahmin society but not in the middle class which is the largest chunk. I speak about majorities and there is always scope for exceptions which is human nature.

Any marriage which does not take into account the character of the groom or bride is bound to fail ultimately. There is no two opinions about it. But when you look for a suitable match within the community you are sure about atleast a few familiar things. Let me try to make it easy. Caste is like brand equity. I go to the market to buy an electric bulb. I look for only the best brands like Havell or Philips and don't even look at others. It is because of my experience with the product in the past. But after choosing a bulb I also see whether the individual piece is okay in all aspects-whether its filament is in place, whether the base is firmly fixed to the glass bulb etc., The retailer even connects it to the power and shows that it really works. I have learnt from experience that the brand gives me an assurance about many of my concerns. Please for heaven's sake do not immediately extend this example to bring in superiority/inferiority conundrum. Let us keep that aside and take this example of brand equity just in a limited way. The caste tag of brahmin is like the brand equity and it is based on solid scientific evidence as well as everyday experience in this world. Why should I ignore that and pick up from the attractive looking competitive products that come from china these days, which fail in two days or work well depending on how lucky I am? I am not comfortable with intangibles like luck.

In your days the concept of dating was not there because it was a different time with different circumstances/opportunities. Where is the scope for you to date a girl if all the privacy that was available was only the temple prakaaram, city bus journey, family get togethers which were marriages, upanayanams etc.? These days girls are bold and they also know how to manage a date harmlessly. Every date here does not end up in an unwanted pregnancy. These days tb middle class working girls go out on dates after either the marriage is fixed or just prior to that to know the boy better. They call of the proposal if they find the proposed partner is not upto the mark they have in their mind. This is very different from the numerous dating episodes of girls in west. I do not want to go further deep into this. You must be knowing it better. About meat eating, it is again the pressures of the time. Not everyone goes and eat meat or chicken. There are those who do that due to peer pressure and perceived need to live upto the expectation of their love.

Dear friend it is not superficial culture. I would prefer to call it basic values. Even a boy who eats meat a few times with friends in hotels never dares speaking about it to his father, mother, brother or sister. I call it the pangs of growing up. Even Mahatma Gandhi went through this. Many of these boys return back to their basic values and live a normal life as a brahmin. A few go deep into the alien ways and are lost in it for ever. But that is the tyranny of exceptions and there is no escape from that.

When britishers came our veda chanting, puja performing, poonal wearing brahmins had to change. They did that well. They retained their tuft but learnt to wear and live with the uncomfortable turban over it. They retained their poonal but wore a shirt, tie and a coat over it. They did not go for the pant because the kachcham was as good as a pant. And they rose up the ranks of the elite retaining all that.

I am optimistic that our culture will not die. It may undergo periodic modification but will retain the essence of it always in tact. The reason why I am optimistic is because the values are good by universal standards. Like truth which does not require something else to show it our basic values are great and they will stay put.

I cared to give a detailed reply because I understand your position and your genuine interest in a debate. Thanks for your time.
I like the optimism of the member. I wish I could agree with him

good to live in a dream world if it gives happiness two senior gentlemen

After another ten or fifteen years we will find out if the same optimism exists

there may not be many brahmins of this POV. there may not perhaps be brahmins left to be moulded to fit the label with poonool, caste marks and sandhyavandanam

and character as these gentlemen perceive
 
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