Are we brahmins hypocrite

[C RAVI]

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..Gayatri Japam is only for Dwijas etc..Definition of Dwija is Brahmin,Kshatriya and Vaishya..as far as I know there are No Kshatriyas or Vaishyas in South of India..so how come these Non Brahmins were doing all Dwija stuff?

Have seen many NB men wrapping their waist with Saffron cloth, printed with "Aum" & or Gayathri Mantram, while doing Prayers in their home.

Please don't deliberately overlook just for the sake of countering...

 

[renuka]

While indulging in Spirituality majority of the people adopt some kind of getup in some usual/common form. The saint calls them all as "Veshadhari's", to emphasis that, people get into all sort of spiritual practices and marking spiritual symbols to please God and satisfy one self, in their quest to seek something from the almighty. There is no true Bakthi & love towards God in real BUT only the spiritual presentation outwardly.

To distinguish between what is true bakthi and what is not!!

The Saint's remarks are applicable to all Theists in general, irrespective of the caste they belong to.

To wriggle out any situation...you will turn and twist facts! LOL

Superb!

You should be lawyer!

 

[renuka]

Ok since many might not agree that Thyagaraja meant Brahmins..what about Adi Shankara?? who was he talking about?

I am sure Brahmin is one of them.

JATILO MUNDI LUNCHITAKESHAH​

KAASHAAYAAMBARA BAHUKRITAVESHAH​

PASYANNAPI CHA NA PASYATI MOODHO​

HIUDARANIMITAM BAHUKRITAVESHAH​

The ascetic with matted locks, the man with the shaven head or one with hair pulled out, or the man parading in the ochre robes -- they all have eyes but yet do not see. All these are but deceptions for cheating the world, for filling their bellies. (Renunciation does not lie in external appearance, but in inward thought, attitude and feeling).

 

[Raji Ram]

Not in this song, Renu!

But he DOES mention specifically in another popular song that people from high caste behave like low caste!

If I elaborate some more, Thyagaraja will be bashed for writing that brahmins are supposed to be the best!

 

[renuka]

Not in this song, Renu!

But he DOES mention specifically in another popular song that people from high caste behave like low caste!

If I elaborate some more, Thyagaraja will be bashed for writing that brahmins are supposed to be the best!

Dear RR ji,

I had deleted that post of mine just now cos I did not want any controversy..so could you please delete the portion you quoted?

 

[Raji Ram]

Ok since many might not agree that Thyagaraja meant Brahmins..what about Adi Shankara?? who was he talking about?

I am sure Brahmin is one of them.

JATILO MUNDI LUNCHITAKESHAH​

KAASHAAYAAMBARA BAHUKRITAVESHAH​

PASYANNAPI CHA NA PASYATI MOODHO​

HIUDARANIMITAM BAHUKRITAVESHAH.......​

Yes.... ONE OF THEM. There can be jatA mudi / mottai nonbrahms too! ​

 

[renuka]

If I elaborate some more, Thyagaraja will be bashed for writing that brahmins are supposed to be the best!

Nope...no problems..just write the whole song.

I dont mind reading anything..cos we can only know & understand human behavior both ours and others when we read what others think about us.

So please go ahead and paste the full song here.

When I first joined MBBS the Principal was saying that MBBS students are the best of students.

I was pretty sure the Engineering College Principle would have said that Engineering students are the best of students too.

So everyone thinks they are the best..that is human nature.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,
Everyone chides only the hypocrites irrespective of their caste. :decision:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,
Everyone chides only the hypocrites irrespective of their caste. :decision:

Agreed..dear RR ji..so every caste is included..from the 1st to the 4th Varna ..that means anyone can be a hypocrite and no exceptions.

So finally only true human nature surfaces..anyone of any caste can display good or bad behavior.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Thank you! OK... I can give the link for the song where Thyagaraja says that he has committed many mistakes in his life

and wonders who will come to save him from misery! He might have had some one else in his mind but wrote the song

blaming himself. We all know that he does not fit in the description given in the song.

karnatik.com

 

[psnarasimhan]

Answers in blue.

why do you want to bring Iyengars into the picture. It is quite unnecessary.

 

[renuka]

why do you want to bring Iyengars into the picture. It is quite unnecessary.

Dear Sir,

You see the OP was talking only about the scenario in a Muruga Temple..so I guess it was an isolated Iyer case.

But the thread is about Brahmins being Hypcorites.

So I was wondering why is the OP linking an Iyer episode to all Brahmins?

That is why I asked him what about Iyengars??

May be he might give some Iyengar story too..he still has not responded to anyone post yet.

So lets wait and see if he has any Iyengar stories too...more the merrier yaar.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Thank you! OK... I can give the link for the song where Thyagaraja says that he has committed many mistakes in his life

and wonders who will come to save him from misery! He might have had some one else in his mind but wrote the song

blaming himself. We all know that he does not fit in the description given in the song.

karnatik.com

Dear RR ji,

Its such a master piece..its not putting down any one caste..He is just lamenting that he did not follow the Dharma of his caste.

Dont see any problem in that..no where he is sounding superior.

It reminds me so much of Bhavani Ashtakam...where Adi Shankara put himself in a position as if he was also "guilty"as in the Ashtakam.

Nope..you are wrong when you said that Thyagaraja had someone else in his mind when he wrote that song.

He was actually taking the "blame" here for the benefit of the common man.He was selfless when he sang that.

His song will make anyone think that "OMG even a pure soul like Thyagaraja is finding flaws in himself..so I better improve myself before its too late"

 

[sangom]

Objection your honour!

The saint only condemned the 'vEshadhAri's. Haven't you seen Nonbrahms with horizontal / vertical marking on their foreheads,

do japam in the wee hours? We had quiet a few in our village!

I agree that the remark is against people who, according to Thyagaraja, did not know bhaktimaargam, although they "babbled as if in a dream (kaluvarinjcedaru)" roaming all over the world (ilanu antata tiruguchunnu, gaani=but).

In Thyagaraja's time (and even well into later eras) such roaming preachers were mostly brahmins. Secondly, in those days the bathing ghats of rivers and ponds had very strict segregation for brahmins and NBs plus men and women. This system was in existence even up to my younger days. Thyagaraja remarking about other 'brahmins only' is therefore much more reasonable rather than imagining that he had taken time off to observe the habits of NBs and condemning them alone. Further, the legends about Thyagaraja do not mention any rifts he had with NBs but his own elder brother was at loggerheads with Thyagarja for the latter leading a useless life. (The story துறவு by Jeyakanthan and the character Somu in it come to my mind here.)

Hence, the possibility of Thyagarja blaming brahmins is accepted by this Court and the case decided accordingly.

 

[sathya_9]

paragraph wise analysation

realy made thing lighter.

thanks.

sathyanarayanan

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The BB coterie have always betrayed their hatemongering. In this thread, they display silliness too. They thunder "Address the charge in OP" as if the charges are valid charges laid out against members of this forum. Perhaps their hatred is blinding them.

Considering the coordinated attack that the coterie is indulging in, I won't be surprised if the original mischievous post itself came from the BB stable. An IP check and comparison with that of usual BB suspects might reveal the truth.

 

[Nara]

....So, it is better to leave his posts untouched and abide by the Tamil saying which says not to உசுப்பி-fy a being which is just sleeping without creating its usual trouble.

Yes of course, I don't care for these imbeciles and jAti-supremacists who come to life only to obfuscate and hurl stupid charges, and then disappear under the rock from where they slid out.

But I do want the others to think about this -- why do you keep silent when caste-based tall claims are made but when a post like the OP is made can't wait to vociferously point out the obvious that hypocrisy can be found everywhere? When the stupid supremacist claims were made I did not see any of you pointing out that gentleness, intelligence, honesty, etc., can be found everywhere, which is also obvious. When you remain silent when supremacist claims are made, but quick to object when posts like the OP are made, the charge of hypocrisy is only strengthened. This is what I was pointing out.

As for Iyengar hypocrisy, there is loads of it, let me cite just one -- during every pooja (aradhanai) right after deeparadhanai there is ritual singing/recitation of lots of verses -- this ritual is called Satrumurai. It starts with the last two verses of Andal's Thiruppavai. But women are not allowed to join in. This is true in all temples, but get this, this is the case even in Andal's own temple in திருவில்லிபுத்தூர். Women will have to stand outside the inner room where men stand and recite.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I repeat my earlier point to further buttress the cunning ness of the BB coterie. Imagine if someone were to come here and repeat the same charges in OP but against NBs. A few NBs jumping the queue is not at all inconceivable. But that generalization will certainly be attacked as exhibiting vile casteism by the very same BBs. So I say the BBs are hypocrites themselves and display the worst jaathi veri in this forum.

 

[sangom]

Dear RR ji,

Its such a master piece..its not putting down any one caste..He is just lamenting that he did not follow the Dharma of his caste.

Dont see any problem in that..no where he is sounding superior.

It reminds me so much of Bhavani Ashtakam...where Adi Shankara put himself in a position as if he was also "guilty"as in the Ashtakam.

Nope..you are wrong when you said that Thyagaraja had someone else in his mind when he wrote that song.

He was actually taking the "blame" here for the benefit of the common man.He was selfless when he sang that.

His song will make anyone think that "OMG even a pure soul like Thyagaraja is finding flaws in himself..so I better improve myself before its too late"

Who decides, ultimately, whether Thyagaraja - or for that matter, anyone else - is "a pure soul"? After all, the 'soul' or the parabrahman is considered to be always pure and only because it is polluted by maayaa that a human being, including Thyagaraja, is born in this world. So, where is the question of pure soul - all are impure souls beguiled and led astray by maayaa! Thyagaraja was beguiled into believing that the idols of two males, one female and one monkey-man was the Supreme Truth or reality. If this was not the effect of maayaa then what else? पश्यन्नपि च न पश्यति मूढः (paśyannapi ca na paśyati mūḍhaḥ) does not completely apply in this case, I think; only the न पश्यति मूढः (na paśyati mūḍhaḥ) may be said to apply.

It is customary in our hindu system of bhakti, to put on the picture of an absolute sinner and elaborate on the various "sins" committed and then plead for forgiveness to god. We cannot be the judges as to whether such "posing" was genuine (one exception I know of readilly is Arunagirinathar; but he goes off usually at a tangent and starts blaming all the womenfolk who 'spoiled' his great life!) or whether our resident "hypocrisy" played a role there also.

Since the compositions of Thyagaraja are pressed into service in order to buttress certain pov, let me quote the following, from the kriti nī bhaktibhāgyasudhā, in jayamanohari raaga, roopaka thaala:

nī bhaktibhāgyasudhānidhi nīdede janmamu?

bhūbhāramu gāni surabhūsuralai janiñcina

vedoktambau karmamu vetagalgu gatāgatamau
nādātmaka tyāgarājanāthāprameya ! sadā

Herein Thyagaraja says that

Even if one is born as a celestial or brAhmaNa, it is but a burden on the Earth.

The path of (religious) rites as propounded in vEda results in distressing repeated births and deaths.

Is not Thyagaraja, therefore, a Basher of Vaideeki Brahmanas?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I think members of the BB coterie should be the last ones to talk about someone disappearing from the forum. This is yet another example of their hypocrisy. At least every member of this coterie has disappeared from this forum once only to come back because they seem unable to control their hatemongering itch.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

The BBs as is their wont are, what is the phrase, "kissing each other's ....". They always have been like that when it comes to bashing Brahmins. Therefore it makes funny reading when they make tall claims about being independent thinkers etc. Hypocrites to the core. LOL..

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Brahmanyan Sir,

Do you mean to say that all successful persons are hypocrites?

No Maam,
Not necessarily. Success or failure in life depends on so many factors according to individual situations. Hypocrisy
may help for a few.

Regards,

 

[Raji Ram]

Saint Thyagaraja is a noble person who was not interested in money and the whole world knows that. He led a simple life and

had very deep bhakthi and adored Rama. Our Guru Dr. S. Ramanathan used to give wonderful program titled 'A day with

Thyagaraja'. Please do not try to brand the Saint as a BB and demean him by such words like

.... Thyagaraja was beguiled into believing that the idols of two males, one female and one monkey-man was the Supreme Truth or reality. ...

It hurts a lot.

 

[sangom]

Saint Thyagaraja is a noble person who was not interested in money and the whole world knows that. He led a simple life and

had very deep bhakthi and adored Rama. Our Guru Dr. S. Ramanathan used to give wonderful program titled 'A day with

Thyagaraja'. Please do not try to brand the Saint as a BB and demean him by such words like



It hurts a lot.

Truth hurts most times!

Ego does not like to be hurt even a little.

 

[C RAVI]

Saint Thyagaraja is a noble person who was not interested in money and the whole world knows that. He led a simple life and

had very deep bhakthi and adored Rama. Our Guru Dr. S. Ramanathan used to give wonderful program titled 'A day with

Thyagaraja'. Please do not try to brand the Saint as a BB and demean him by such words like



It hurts a lot.

True!!

A human who is devoid of greed, cheating others, misleading and paining others, insulting and abusing others and is only into his/her own world of Praising the almighty with belief in God and Spirituality (if at all one is a theist and spiritually involved), living a simple and righteous life is certainly worth to be respected and honored.

It is wrong to derive wrong conclusions to suit one's fancy and blaming him a BB, including him in the group of BBs is very much an inhuman act!

What else can be the biggest Ego than deliberately including a innocent Saint into the fold of BBs by BBs, to back up their B bashing and feel contented with their justification?