Changing Times: Will Gay Marriage Be Legal in India?

[C RAVI]

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I am going to put a few blunt questions here.
This questions are for those who believe in God.Even Non Believers are free to answer this Questions.

1) How many of you think that a straight guy is a better devotee than a gay guy?

2)Do you really think being gay or straight will make a difference in our spiritual progress?

3)Do you really think that God will seriously treat a prayer from a straight guy with a preference over a gay guys prayer?

1) Any one can be a better devotee. Male/female/straight/gay/lesbian/transgenders/smugglers/politicians, etc..etc can be a better devotee. All can be a compassionate humanist too, IMO.

2) Any one on This Earth can make a spiritual progress without any difference, if they truly wish to, IMO.

3) God is same for all. Even for a rapist/criminal God is same. The rule of the nature/karma is applicable to all and GOD's help can be sought by any one who believe and dare to obey GOD, IMO.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

Don't you think there is a difference between attachment towards money and attachment towards your family? Though both are attachment the latter is more altruistic. I call them physical and spiritual attachment respectively, the former being negative, perverted and the latter being positive and shall we say, straight? You are correct in saying that both need to be transcended but the latter is a level higher in the evolution ladder in my view.

Sravna,

I disagree here cos an attachment is still an attachment we cant say that one is higher than the other in the evolution ladder.
Gunas might differ but nevertheless all bind.

 

[renuka]

1) Any one can be a better devotee. Male/female/straight/gay/lesbian/transgenders/smugglers/politicians, etc..etc can be a better devotee. All can be a compassionate humanist too, IMO.

2) Any one on This Earth can make a spiritual progress without any difference, if they truly wish to, IMO.

3) God is same for all. Even for a rapist/criminal God is same. The rule of the nature/karma is applicable to all and GOD's help can be sought by any one who believe and dare to obey GOD, IMO.

So Ravi dear..

Whats the problem ?

 

[C RAVI]

So Ravi dear..

Whats the problem ?

I didn't get your problem...

What you want to convey by analysing Sprirituality and God's mercy, thats applicable to all irrespective of any differences?

 

[renuka]

I didn't get your problem...

What you want to convey by analysing Sprirituality and God's mercy, thats applicable to all irrespective of any differences?

Dear Ravi,

What I meant is going by the answers you gave for the 3 questions I wrote..it clearly shows you are non judgemental so what difference would it make if 2 gays want to be married?

BTW imagine any Gay reading this Thread can anyone guess how he will feel?
Hurt?Shunned by society?

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

What I meant is going by the answers you gave for the 3 questions I wrote..it clearly shows you are non judgemental so what difference would it make if 2 gays want to be married?

BTW imagine any Gay reading this Thread can anyone guess how he will feel?
Hurt?Shunned by society?

No one is judgemental here, who all are opposing gay marriage legalization..

Can a Prostitue reading some articles/comments, against her way of life, can be pampered to encourage her and make her happy?

Life is too critical and harsh for many. We can only sympathize them. We can only respect them as human, because not a single girl would prefer to be a prostitue. Profession dosen't matter, only one's good nature matters...

Can we encourage eligible bachelors who all are over due for marriege and finding difficulty in marrying, to go dating with a prostitue (without her kowledge as whats the motive of a guy), get to know her qualities, behaviour, her nature, her tendencies and then if found appealing and satisfatory, to marry her?

And, this way, in due course of time, can we be able to differentiate who is a prostitue as the only source of survival (or being forced into as a victim) and who is a prostitute only for different styles of pleasures (as they are rest assured that in society, they would be accepted for marriege)?

Many men and women in society, now a days, though are naturally straight, are prefering to be guys/lesbians due many of their own reasons. Many constraints, many fear, many disappointments and many psychological disorders. Transgenders are exceptionals, IMHO. We can differentiate them well and anything to be legalized for their community is the must, IMO.

But, leagalization of gay/lesbo marriege will lead to many destructions of the soceity.

Let them live the way they want, no one of us gonna be bothering them. But let us not make it a leagalized marriage, offering a open space to all in common, IMHO.

 

[renuka]

Ravi you wrote;

Can we encourage eligible bachelors who all are over due for marriege and finding difficulty in marrying, to go dating with a prostitue (without her kowledge as whats the motive of a guy), get to know her qualities, behaviour, her nature, her tendencies and then if found appealing and satisfatory, to marry her?

My only answer to this is if a man truly loves a woman he will marry her no matter what.
And if a woman truly loves a man she will marry him even if he was a Commercial Sex Worker(CSW)


BTW some bachelors like those you mentioned in your post there might want to go on dates with Female Commercial Sex Worker(CSW) becos they might be some Kanjoos(miser) who might feel by acting like her boyfriend he need not pay her.

 

[C RAVI]

Ravi you wrote;




BTW some bachelors like those you mentioned in your post there might want to go on dates with Female Commercial Sex Worker(CSW) becos they might be some Kanjoos(miser) who might feel by acting like her boyfriend he need not pay her.

Does dating denotes, indulging in sex, just like boy friends/girls friends are many who basically are sex partners?

 

[C RAVI]

No one is judgemental here, who all are opposing gay marriage legalization..

Can a Prostitue reading some articles/comments, against her way of life, can be pampered to encourage her and make her happy?

Life is too critical and harsh for many. We can only sympathize them. We can only respect them as human, because not a single girl would prefer to be a prostitue. Profession dosen't matter, only one's good nature matters...

Can we encourage eligible bachelors who all are over due for marriege and finding difficulty in marrying, to go dating with a prostitue (without her kowledge as whats the motive of a guy), get to know her qualities, behaviour, her nature, her tendencies and then if found appealing and satisfatory, to marry her?

And, this way, in due course of time, can we be able to differentiate who is a prostitue as the only source of survival (or being forced into as a victim) and who is a prostitute only for different styles of pleasures (as they are rest assured that in society, they would be accepted for marriege)?

Many men and women in society, now a days, though are naturally straight, are prefering to be guys/lesbians due many of their own reasons. Many constraints, many fear, many disappointments and many psychological disorders. Transgenders are exceptionals, IMHO. We can differentiate them well and anything to be legalized for their community is the must, IMO.

But, leagalization of gay/lesbo marriege will lead to many destructions of the soceity.

Let them live the way they want, no one of us gonna be bothering them. But let us not make it a leagalized marriage, offering a open space to all in common, IMHO.

Considering my above points, can any one pass on their views about the need of leagalization of gay marriage to help them and enable the future generation to find India as a truely democratic country to have legalized marriage of any kind? Will that be good for society of natural orders?

Having stated my views in post #81, I rest my case.

But would like to know others opinion.

 

[renuka]

Does dating denotes, indulging in sex, just like boy friends/girls friends are many who basically are sex partners?

Dating differs for each individual.Some have physical contact and some dont.

 

[C RAVI]

Dating differs for each individual.Some have physical contact and some dont.

Well, in my example, in post #81, I was highlighting the need to know the fine human qualities of a prostitute(as a girl, a normal human/girl like any other girl) and not to know her sex skills and to use it to satisfy guy's lust, free of cost or at a meagre cost.

Anways, my post with an example was to understand the need of the society and human kind. Not about how to use a prostitute in a wicked manner.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

Among the different types of karma, there are what are called selfish actions (sakama karma) and selfless actions (nishkana karma). The latter is glorified in bhagvad gita Referring to the attachments that are self centered and those that are at least relatively less so, wouldn't you agree that the latter represents a progress and higher spiritual development? I am also of the view that progress from shedding of selfish attachments into selfless attachments is irreversible and hence is a more desirable stage.

 

[renuka]

Renuka,

Among the different types of karma, there are what are called selfish actions (sakama karma) and selfless actions (nishkana karma). The latter is glorified in bhagvad gita Referring to the attachments that are self centered and those that are at least relatively less so, wouldn't you agree that the latter represents a progress and higher spiritual development? I am also of the view that progress from shedding of selfish attachments into selfless attachments is irreversible and hence is a more desirable stage.

I guess you are talking about Karmanyevadhikaraste ma phalesu kadacana.
I agree with what you are saying but Sravna most of us 99.99% are not selfless yet.
Even when we love someone we do expect them to love us in return.
Like how a husband and wife expect love from each other despite their occasional differences.Even that pure love still has seeds of Sakama Karma.

 

[renuka]

Well, in my example, in post #81, I was highlighting the need to know the fine human qualities of a prostitute(as a girl, a normal human/girl like any other girl) and not to know her sex skills and to use it to satisfy guy's lust, free of cost or at a meagre cost.

Anways, my post with an example was to understand the need of the society and human kind. Not about how to use a prostitute in a wicked manner.

Ok fine than why did you say this:

Can we encourage eligible bachelors who all are over due for marriege and finding difficulty in marrying, to go dating with a prostitue (without her kowledge as whats the motive of a guy), get to know her qualities, behaviour, her nature, her tendencies and then if found appealing and satisfatory, to marry her?

Cos if she is a fine person with a heart of gold why not?

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Gay marriage laws are perhaps on the anvil. Our FM is already in the US and there could be a MOU on this also. But Uncle Sam would not ok it until we have the "Rape of Gay" law in place. Whither civilization going...

 

[amala]

This notion that somehow people can choose to be gay/lesbian and its a conscious decision of their part to do so is extremely disturbing. As far as I know the three sexual orientations of humans ie heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality is something they are born with. Until we can extablish that clearly, legalising gay marriage is always going to be seen as unecessary and decadent.

Correct me if I am wrong but I've always thought and heard that people don't have any control over their sexual orientation, but of course they can choose not to act on it openly.

As we can see, there is still much prejudice against gay people, so why on earth would anyone choose to be gay? Why would anyone purposely make life all the more difficult for themselves? It doesn't make sense.

Why would legalising gay marriage lead to destruction of society? I don't get it. Is it because we are worried that once legalised, even straight people are going to wake up and say Woohoo! They've legalised it. I am gonna be gay from today! But it doesn't work that way. Straight people cannot be gay. Only bisexuals can be both. But they are born that way.

 

[Nara]

...As we can see, there is still much prejudice against gay people, so why on earth would anyone choose to be gay? Why would anyone purposely make life all the more difficult for themselves? It doesn't make sense.

Precisely, great point!

Why would legalising gay marriage lead to destruction of society? I don't get it. Is it because we are worried that once legalised, even straight people are going to wake up and say Woohoo! They've legalised it. I am gonna be gay from today!

Couldn't stop laughing, you are a dynamite ....

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

My point is one should strive to move towards the ideal and not away from it. Thus even if people are not totally selfless it is ok. To achieve that is the purpose of existence. So let us not show them the wrong direction.

 

[Yamaka]

This notion that somehow people can choose to be gay/lesbian and its a conscious decision of their part to do so is extremely disturbing. As far as I know the three sexual orientations of humans ie heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality is something they are born with. Until we can extablish that clearly, legalising gay marriage is always going to be seen as unecessary and decadent.

Correct me if I am wrong but I've always thought and heard that people don't have any control over their sexual orientation, but of course they can choose not to act on it openly.

As we can see, there is still much prejudice against gay people, so why on earth would anyone choose to be gay? Why would anyone purposely make life all the more difficult for themselves? It doesn't make sense.

Why would legalising gay marriage lead to destruction of society? I don't get it. Is it because we are worried that once legalised, even straight people are going to wake up and say Woohoo! They've legalised it. I am gonna be gay from today! But it doesn't work that way. Straight people cannot be gay. Only bisexuals can be both. But they are born that way.

Hello Amala:

I look at this as a Civil Rights Issue - I don't want to analyze whether this is a genetic matter or simple deviant behavior etc etc.

If two adults want to get married, I say, "Yes, as any other heterosexuals, you have your right to get married, period".

Who am I to investigate their "underlying facts" or what not? Those are unnecessary side distractions to me.

This is what I will tell my two adult kids if they ask me!

Cheers.

ps. Genetically speaking, some of the gays have very strong genetic predisposition to be gays, some others are influenced by the environment, yet another sub-group has 50:50 influence. By legalizing, more and more "closet gays" will come out... someone said as much as 10% of the entire world population could be gays, lesbians or trans-genders..

 

[kunjuppu]

Couldn't stop laughing, you are a dynamite ....

Cheers!

yeah

 

[amala]

Hi YamakaJi,

I agree that it is indeed a Civil rights issue. However, I personally feel it is of utmost importance that we can establish this as a genetic matter. Only because i think that will help accelerate their Civil Rights with regards to legalising marriage.

As long as people think that one chooses to be gay they won't empathise with legalising gay marriage. They will say ok you chose to be gay. Why do you want to marry. Unchoose to be gay and then you can marry like the rest of us.

 

[amala]

Aww bless you both Kunjuppu/Nara mama

 

[Yamaka]

"However, I personally feel it is of utmost importance that we can establish this as a genetic matter. Only because i think that will help accelerate their Civil Rights with regards to legalising marriage." - Amala said.

Hello Amala:

I am afraid it would be a very time consuming challenge... I feel a genetic component is strongly involved in a sub-group of Gays... to prove that it is in ALL cases will be a daunting task, IMO.

Stressing this as a matter of Civil Right or Equal Rights is easier, instead, I suppose.

As one well known Molecular Biologist (David Baltimore - a Nobelist in Biology) said, "We have not understood fully even the human sexuality as yet... an extremely difficult subject for Scientists"

Cheers.

 

[tbs]

This notion that somehow people can choose to be gay/lesbian and its a conscious decision of their part to do so is extremely disturbing. As far as I know the three sexual orientations of humans ie heterosexuality, homosexuality and bisexuality is something they are born with. Until we can extablish that clearly, legalising gay marriage is always going to be seen as unecessary and decadent.

Correct me if I am wrong but I've always thought and heard that people don't have any control over their sexual orientation, but of course they can choose not to act on it openly.

As we can see, there is still much prejudice against gay people, so why on earth would anyone choose to be gay? Why would anyone purposely make life all the more difficult for themselves? It doesn't make sense.

Why would legalising gay marriage lead to destruction of society? I don't get it. Is it because we are worried that once legalised, even straight people are going to wake up and say Woohoo! They've legalised it. I am gonna be gay from today! But it doesn't work that way. Straight people cannot be gay. Only bisexuals can be both. But they are born that way.

hi amala
nice remarks....great point too...but may be neccessity of modern times.....some issues like property /insurance other benefits

denied for gay/lesbian people in front of court/law.....once legalised....its law....even divorcees are getting benefits....many just

walk away from marriage/family responsibilties.....divorce is legalised....why cant gay marriages?......anyway its happening every

where...but not openly.....not legally approved....many unanswered questions about gay/lesbian in army/defence forces....

still many countries openly against gay marriages in defence forces......i had gone through some personal experiences...but i dont want

to say openly in a public forum.....its really a burning issue....but i agree that in a long term basis.....the society/community will be

corrupted.....


regards
tbs

 

[renuka]

Dear Amala,


You wrote:

Why would legalising gay marriage lead to destruction of society? I don't get it. Is it because we are worried that once legalised, even straight people are going to wake up and say Woohoo! They've legalised it. I am gonna be gay from today!

I cant stop laughing too!!!