God Exists

[nachi naga]

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vim vigour vitality ,swamiyeah sharanam ayyappa

 

[nachi naga]

subbudu,as a long standing/sitting member,this forum is tops.we have been discussing everything.yes at times things go off tangent.i really feel here is no need for a new forum to discuss the said topics you have written.moderation as well has been ok may not be the best but certainly not worst.krs praveen and some other members have been doing this thankless job and for what?i really feel bad for praveen especially,a fun loving young man and sincere in his attempt to galvanise our community on a global scale.even tough i have been subjected to scrutiny in past,hey its all in the game.no hard feelings at all.in fact i learn quiet a bit .thanks,may god bless all of us all the time.

 

[suraju06]

<removed>

 

[subbudu1]

subbudu,as a long standing/sitting member,this forum is tops.we have been discussing everything.yes at times things go off tangent.i really feel here is no need for a new forum to discuss the said topics you have written.moderation as well has been ok may not be the best but certainly not worst.krs praveen and some other members have been doing this thankless job and for what?i really feel bad for praveen especially,a fun loving young man and sincere in his attempt to galvanise our community on a global scale.even tough i have been subjected to scrutiny in past,hey its all in the game.no hard feelings at all.in fact i learn quiet a bit .thanks,may god bless all of us all the time.

Dear Sir to my wife I dont discuss about certain Babas , she will weep. I dont penetrate that area. I view this forum in this manner of people predetermined in their views and that prevents new conclusions from emerging. It should be open. If an X-Baba picks up and talks about judaism and if jews feel that it is incorrect can such things be openly criticized here. You are all like my family members only, though some treat me as an enemy. However I feel suffocated here because there is just not enough freedom. The rules here are different. But we need additional channels of discussion especially when many of us want to continue interacting in this forum, but practical difficulties prevent it. The forum I want is an additional channel.

 

[suraju06]

subbudu,as a long standing/sitting member,this forum is tops.we have been discussing everything.yes at times things go off tangent.i really feel here is no need for a new forum to discuss the said topics you have written.moderation as well has been ok may not be the best but certainly not worst.krs praveen and some other members have been doing this thankless job and for what?i really feel bad for praveen especially,a fun loving young man and sincere in his attempt to galvanise our community on a global scale.even tough i have been subjected to scrutiny in past,hey its all in the game.no hard feelings at all.in fact i learn quiet a bit .thanks,may god bless all of us all the time.

Dear Nachi,

I am adding what you have left out: This is a unique forum because it even allows its members to go on a shooting spree. The forum further allows the members to vent their anger when they find that all the ammunition that they have fired have gone waste. Further this is the only forum in which you are allowed to canvass membership for starting another forum. How large hearted is Mr. Praveen. God bless him-because He exists.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Dear Sir to my wife I dont discuss about certain Babas , she will weep. I dont penetrate that area. I view this forum in this manner of people predetermined in their views and that prevents new conclusions from emerging. It should be open. If an X-Baba picks up and talks about judaism and if jews feel that it is incorrect can such things be openly criticized here. You are all like my family members only, though some treat me as an enemy. However I feel suffocated here because there is just not enough freedom. The rules here are different. But we need additional channels of discussion especially when many of us want to continue interacting in this forum, but practical difficulties prevent it. The forum I want is an additional channel.

Dear Mr. Subbudu,

You know me as a member of this forum from my postings here. Please tell me whether you will admit me as a member to this new forum you are going to start. I want to become one. You know my views about the so called "brahminism"(whatever it means), about God, about scriptures and about science and its infallibility. I am curious. Please let me know if it is not a problem.

Cheers.

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Mr. Subbudu,

You know me as a member of this forum from my postings here. Please tell me whether you will admit me as a member to this new forum you are going to start. I want to become one. You know my views about the so called "brahminism"(whatever it means), about God, about scriptures and about science and its infallibility. I am curious. Please let me know if it is not a problem.

Cheers.

I would never hesitate to welcome anyone , and people who are willing to fight for the right of others to express their views inspite of differences are more than welcome. The only restriction will be use of non vulgar language. Even a prohibited language list can be displayed. That is my view but Iam awaiting the feedback of the others.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

If thoughts were horses....
the lame can ride them!

A secular, democratic, republic country
can not maintain its secularism or democracy and remain a republic!

It is reverting to the original maharajah style of heirs becoming successors.

Talk of the democracy of the Forum -
which is indeed more tolerant than it needs to be!

 

[sravna]

I would never hesitate to welcome anyone , and people who are willing to fight for the right of others to express their views inspite of differences are more than welcome. The only restriction will be use of non vulgar language. Even a prohibited language list can be displayed. That is my view but Iam awaiting the feedback of the others.

Dear Shri.Subbudu,

What if the members of your forum are disapproving of some person's presence and want him/her to be banned. The same situation. Since you say it is a democratic set up shouldn't the will of the members prevail? What would you do in this similar situation?

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Shri.Subbudu,

What if the members of your forum are disapproving of some person's presence and want him/her to be banned. The same situation. Since you say it is a democratic set up shouldn't the will of the members prevail? What would you do in this similar situation?

As I have said a democratically elected approval board will take the step. The approval board will alone be responsible for adding a new member. These are my vague ideas at this point and I am awaiting the view of others.

The more important thing is the forum/groups has to provide a platform for what is not allowed to be represented within limits of decency. I have perfect faith in people like Nara or Sangom. The only hesitation would be whether how large would be this audience. Obviously everyone can comment within the basic rules. If there are few members it will not be any more than a personal blog and it is also a platform where not only one can post but others post and interact.
The purpose is to represent what is not represented here. Nothing more nothing else. Right in this forum, there is no place for rationalists , skeptics and the like. I have no problem with that. One cannot hope to find a place to critiscize shankara inside the premises of shankara mutt.

What theists dont understand here , is that as they skillfully remove opposing voices,they forget the voice of some sections is forcefully being silenced.
But do two advaitinsnot shout at each other and fight each other? Even if all opponents are silenced there will be fight over whether kanchi mutt or sringeri mutt is better.

 

[suraju06]

Mr. Subbudu's post #1101 is for reference:

Dear Nara, Sangom, Happy, and others
In this forum one is not allowed to critically examine religions, gods or even sciences.One cannot even critically examine Babas and Swamijis.

You have been critically examining religion, God and brahmins in this forum so far. Babas and swamijis have all come for criticism here. That is how all these 1100 and more posts have come about in this thread alone. Please explain how do you contend that you have not been allowed to do these.

However the ban on HH has made me feel that any of us can be banned and the reason is in a way because of us. We dont have alternate and additional channels of expressing opinions.

Don't you think you have become emotional? The member was banned because of reasons that have been given transparently by Mr. Praveen. If one member goes another member may come tomorrow and challenge spiritedly the theists, brahmins and babas and swamijis in this forum. The ban is not because of the ideas but because of a certain type of attitude as I can see it.

But I would like to continue my quantum discussion in a separate place as after all my efforts , I would still be hated in this forum.

I dont believe the members here are capable of any hatred.

 

[subbudu1]

Mr. Subbudu's post #1101 is for reference:



You have been critically examining religion, God and brahmins in this forum so far. Babas and swamijis have all come for criticism here. That is how all these 1100 and more posts have come about in this thread alone. Please explain how do you contend that you have not been allowed to do these.



Don't you think you have become emotional? The member was banned because of reasons that have been given transparently by Mr. Praveen. If one member goes another member may come tomorrow and challenge spiritedly the theists, brahmins and babas and swamijis in this forum. The ban is not because of the ideas but because of a certain type of attitude as I can see it.



I dont believe the members here are capable of any hatred.

Sorry raju even as you may hold a group of friends who support each other, I see and experience a lot of hatred in this forum specifically against me. It is not true what you say and I experience it. I am not wanted here as some member who suddenly woke up to my post, dragged himself/herself here even though he/she is silent in most posts and threads. When nothing is referred to about this person why suddenly wake up proactively. My only concern is how I am going to participate in discussions with like minded people without having to come to this forum, and at the same time allow my views in public domain.

 

[suraju06]

Mr. Subbudu in post# 1106:

I would never hesitate to welcome anyone , and people who are willing to fight for the right of others to express their views inspite of differences are more than welcome. The only restriction will be use of non vulgar language. Even a prohibited language list can be displayed. That is my view but Iam awaiting the feedback of the others.

Dear Mr. Subbudu,

Could you please tell whether Calling a member a lier repeatedly without reason will be vulgar language or non-vulgar language in your new forum. Also whether introducing the members to vulgarities like the middle finger mudra (I am not talking here of the "pushpa mudra" of pancharatra Agamam but about the north american vulgar gesture), virility of members, bovine faeces etc falls in the category of vulgar language or not could be spelt out clearly.

Thank you.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Sorry raju even as you may hold a group of friends who support each other, I see and experience a lot of hatred in this forum specifically against me. It is not true what you say and I experience it. I am not wanted here as some member who suddenly woke up to my post, dragged himself/herself here even though he/she is silent in most posts and threads. When nothing is referred to about this person why suddenly wake up proactively. My only concern is how I am going to participate in discussions with like minded people without having to come to this forum, and at the same time allow my views in public domain.

Dear Mr. Subbudu,

I don't hold any groups. I am not a member of any group here. I don't send any PMs to any other member in this forum. I am a loner. I write here about what I know and I look for knowledge. These sentences I have to put down here because it appears you are under a different impression about me. The likes I receive for my posts are all properties of people who post them. i am careful not to be touched by them in a deep way. In a dialogue there should be two different minds participating. If it is between like minded people the chances of it becoming a monologue is more. Any way I wish that you continue here. But I do understand you have other compulsions. Cheers.

 

[subbudu1]

Mr. Subbudu in post# 1106:



Dear Mr. Subbudu,

Could you please tell whether Calling a member a lier repeatedly without reason will be vulgar language or non-vulgar language in your new forum. Also whether introducing the members to vulgarities like the middle finger mudra (I am not talking here of the "pushpa mudra" of pancharatra Agamam but about the north american vulgar gesture), virility of members, bovine faeces etc falls in the category of vulgar language or not could be spelt out clearly.

Thank you.

Cheers.

As I said if at all this group is started and others are willing, Nara would definitely be part of it, if he wants to be part of it. I dont know the history of arguments but commonsense would prevail over a particular issue at hand not just some hard coded rules, In this case I cannot comment on what made him provoked to say what he did but he has been fair with his opponents unless provoked.

 

[sravna]

As I have said a democratically elected approval board will take the step. The approval board will alone be responsible for adding a new member. These are my vague ideas at this point and I am awaiting the view of others.

The more important thing is the forum/groups has to provide a platform for what is not allowed to be represented within limits of decency. I have perfect faith in people like Nara or Sangom. The only hesitation would be whether how large would be this audience. Obviously everyone can comment within the basic rules. If there are few members it will not be any more than a personal blog and it is also a platform where not only one can post but others post and interact.
The purpose is to represent what is not represented here. Nothing more nothing else. Right in this forum, there is no place for rationalists , skeptics and the like. I have no problem with that. One cannot hope to find a place to critiscize shankara inside the premises of shankara mutt.

What theists dont understand here , is that as they skillfully remove opposing voices,they forget the voice of some sections is forcefully being silenced.
But do two advaitinsnot shout at each other and fight each other? Even if all opponents are silenced there will be fight over whether kanchi mutt or sringeri mutt is better.

Dear Shri Subbudu,

Nobody is trying to silence anybody. The question is whether members find the views expressed by anyone are just not being dogmatic in nature but is accomodative of opposing views and that exchanges are done in a civil way.

This thread brings out this essential problem. Whereas the theists offered a number of logical arguments as required by the atheists, the latter were just dismissing everything as not based on external proof when the very essence of the answer is in the inner experience.

There is no point in blaming the theists for not providing the answer the way the atheists want. The two follow different approaches to knowledge though finally they have to merge.

It is of course your choice to start a new forum. But definitely the basic differences in the two approaches is bound to create conflicts and disagreements. The problem is not new or will go away soon.

The only way of running a forum without clashes of ideas is to attract like minded people. That would also result in this unavoidable situation when an intruder airs his idea. At least this forum has been magnanimous and liberal in its attitude to let divergent views be aired in spite of numerous personal clashes between members.

Anyway if you are bent on creating a new forum as I said it is your choice.

 

[suraju06]

As I said if at all this group is started and others are willing, Nara would definitely be part of it, if he wants to be part of it. I dont know the history of arguments but commonsense would prevail over a particular issue at hand not just some hard coded rules, In this case I cannot comment on what made him provoked to say what he did but he has been fair with his opponents unless provoked.

Dear Mr. Subbudu,

Thank you. I have understood the standards you have set for your new forum. God bless you.

Cheers.

 

[suraju06]

Folks,
This is with reference to the post by Nara #1074

This site focus is about Tamil Brahmins. Learn to respect the theme. Try to be less of a Brahmin Basher here. Want to hate Brahmins or Brahminism? Start your own site.
.
The fact of the matter is, those who defend the good old tradition, the ones who wish to pass off as defenders of Brahmins, are the worst enemies of Brahmins, as they flout every last rule of what a "Brahmin's" life is supposed to be and yet have the audacity to tell the poor Brahmin trying to make ends meet, to cling to Brahmin glory, and how sublime Brahminism is -- hypocrites the lot of them.

Those who have rejected Brahminism(whatever the word may mean) and have gone western completely in everything including in fullfilling their duties to their children, have no locus standi in adjudicating in this matter between brahmins and poor brahmins.

 

[Nara]

When there is a wounded left to die, the vultures show up cawing their self-righteous drivel.

 

[sangom]

Dear Nara, Sangom, Happy, and others

What I found is that there is a need for alternate discussions. In this forum one is not allowed to critically examine religions, gods or even sciences.
One cannot even critically examine Babas and Swamijis. I agree with the statement that the forum is a privilege of its founders and it cannot be argued. This privilege concept is a straight lift off from the age old hierarchical practices. But I will not say anything more here.

But knowledge is the power that can liberate us and we should welcome any source of knowledge and questioning as long as the person is not malicious.

My real interest is in Science and skeptical things. It is these two things that brought democracy.

We also feel for each other in this forum as friends and some times as opponents in an argument.
However the ban on HH has made me feel that any of us can be banned and the reason is in a way because of us. We dont have alternate and additional channels of expressing opinions.

Lot of things depend on you guys. I have a plan let us start a forum - Science, Religion and their relation - An objective forum. People can continue to be members of this forum. But I would like to continue my quantum discussion in a separate place as after all my efforts , I would still be hated in this forum.
But it will not only be about Quantum, the vedas can be openly and critically questioned line by line. The concept of health in Ayurveda can be questioned. Religious defenders will also have a place. But they like atheists should have a thick skin. The discussion should be so open and so free that only vulgar language and personal accusations, rumours and unfounded assumptions about real people( information for which there is no respectable source) would be banned.

The ownership of the forum should be democratic. A respected person like Sangom will be the person who will pick the people for initial selection of an approval committee. So the process will be democratic/ anyone can be approved to become a member of the commitee if democratically a candidate is approved for becoming member of the committee. We can have various checkpoints and rules provided a person is interested. There are various free ways a forum can be started. It may also be as simple as a Yahoo group that can be formed. If interested please let me know. I will setup that based on your suggestions. If for example any comment needs to be moderated it should be a simple democratic decision by the approval committee. Democracy should rule. Awaiting your inputs and interest.

The idea behind this forum is not to oppose the current one. But the idea is to have a free rational scientific discussion pertaining to religion. We can discuss the specifics of the area we want. It should not be a repeat of this forum and should complement it. So a person can have no difficulty participating in both forums simultaneously. This way just because of a person's view we should not stand to loose. The forum should not be about market. 10 people will be good enough , quality matters not quantity. If there are few participants it will be a common area of exchange of ideas and concepts. However we like we can take it forward democratically without suppressing freedom of exchange.

Dear Shri Subbudu,

I am not quite clear as to what you have in mind when you refer to a "new Forum"; if you are thinking of starting a new sub-head under the main head "Forum" within the Tamilbrahmin.com, I would request you to give up the idea. I am sorry to say that during my nearly one year's association with this forum I have found Shri Praveen supporting freedom of expression on some occasions and acting in a nearly autocratic fashion at other times. Hence it is better to completely disabuse yourself of any idea to start a "sub-forum" in this website. As someone recently wrote, I have been surprised by the name (tamilbrahmins.com), the logo"Brahmin community spread across the entire globe", and the apparently contradictory action of not asking for verification of caste at the time of registering as member. Once I raised this doubt by means of a PM to Shri Praveen himself but his reply did not appear to be satisfactory to me.

If you are thinking of starting a new web forum itself, I am ready to share the expenses and also contribute my bit to it. Please clarify.

 

[subbudu1]

If you are thinking of starting a new web forum itself, I am ready to share the expenses and also contribute my bit to it. Please clarify.

This is what I had in mind.It can be as simple as a yahoo group or something I have no idea. When I read Nara's post and yours that we should continue to exchange ideas, then I though the best would be to have something better than a blog. How small or how big is not my concern. It is the quality of exchange which is important.

 

[praveen]

since we are talking about starting a new forum, it would be good to take it to private messages or via email. With this message, this topic is being closed.

Once again it is quite simply difficult to please all.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear all,

The thread is open now....

Thank you very much Mr.Praveen

 

[DrBarani]

Dear all,

The thread is open now....

Thank you very much Mr.Praveen

Yes, it takes a great amount of maturity to be able to reverse ones own decision, without letting ego come across. Outstanding Character. Lets also applaud ShivKC for his contribution.

 

[C RAVI]

This thread will be meaningful only with the contribution of all Theists, Atheists and Agnostics.

I hope all the members would continue to express their views, considering attacking the points in true spirit of debating and not the person.

Let us, don't worry who has clicked "Like" to whom/which post, who is our close friend through PM and who is not, with whom we are emotionally attached and with whom not etc..etc and continue to express views, purely considering only the subject matter, giving respect to each and every poster.