God Exists

[கால பைரவன்]

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This canard never stops. Praveen is the owner of this site and he decides what is allowed and what it not, not some Johnny come lately.

There is nothing wrong in keeping the forum open. The question is why should a forum open to all, irrespective of caste or creed or religion or nationality, a forum which allows discussion on any topic under the sun be called tamilbrahmins.com? That is what I fail to understand!

 

[nachi naga]

now i really know god exists

 

[palindrome]

There is nothing wrong in keeping the forum open. The question is why should a forum open to all, irrespective of caste or creed or religion or nationality, a forum which allows discussion on any topic under the sun be called tamilbrahmins.com? That is what I fail to understand!

Well it appears Praveen initially started the website for TBs. So he registered a forum under this website name. But later he extended membership to everyone. Maybe it was a business move for traffic and readership. Or maybe praveen felt there is nothing to be got by restricting membership to TBs alone (seriously, i wud think it is heights to practice caste-discrimination in the cyberworld, but then there are other forums which do restrict membership, and typically they are associated with 'brahmins' or with north-indians - well that shd convey a lot about some certain groups i suppose).

 

[DrBarani]

drB,

your post #1072:

sir, to me, the forum, is more entertainment than a cause. by and large.

but every one of us, has some topic or the other, where we are passionate. to me the treatment of women in our society is important. i have an unassuaged anger at the past, over which i have no control to influence. i accept that.

Dear Mr.K

If you are implying that HH was treated unfairly because she is a woman, I object to that charge in strongest possible terms. It is very likely men have been similarly 'banned' in the past with none of you uttering a word of sympathy. So, lets not make this a gender-class warfare please.

re brahmin bashing, all of us, depending on a time stamp, are brahmin bashers. i do not know if you have daughters, but if you do, i would bet, that you treat them as equals to your sons (if you have any) in terms of treatment, love, affection, education, urge to jobs opportunities and above all, that she is on par with a male progeny.

Look, I am not preventing anyone from "Brahmin Bashing" in internet. All I pointed out was, if one is retarded enough to bash brahmins in a website that is primarily visited by Brahmins, then sooner or later a vast majority of them will protest to the website owner and a "ban" becomes inevitable. When the owner is put in a dilemma to choose between a vast majority of clients and a few uninvited bashers, nobody can blame the owner on their decision to protect their interests.

sir, you are PhD, and, i presume, a believer, not only in scientific proof, but also in the concept that when it comes to science, a researcher, man
or woman, is only as good, as the effort she or he puts in. there is no discrimination based on gender, right?

This isn't about me, what I am or what I do. Even if I were not a PhD, a scientist, a believer in God, I would perhaps make the same statement that one brahmin basher shouldn't be that dumb to invade a brahmin theme website to display their intelligence, or its lack thereof, and expect no consequences of their stupid actions.

 

[tbs]

Dear Mr.K

If you are implying that HH was treated unfairly because she is a woman, I object to that charge in strongest possible terms. It is very likely men have been similarly 'banned' in the past with none of you uttering a word of sympathy. So, lets not make this a gender-class warfare please.



Look, I am not preventing anyone from "Brahmin Bashing" in internet. All I pointed out was, if one is retarded enough to bash brahmins in a website that is primarily visited by Brahmins, then sooner or later a vast majority of them will protest to the website owner and a "ban" becomes inevitable. When the owner is put in a dilemma to choose between a vast majority of clients and a few uninvited bashers, nobody can blame the owner on their decision to protect their interests.



This isn't about me, what I am or what I do. Even if I were not a PhD, a scientist, a believer in God, I would perhaps make the same statement that one brahmin basher shouldn't be that dumb to invade a brahmin theme website to display their intelligence, or its lack thereof, and expect no consequences of their stupid actions.

hi drB
excellent words.................one brahmin basher shouldn't be that dumb to invade a brahmin theme website to display their intelligence, or its lack thereof, and expect no consequences of their stupid actions.

i second it....i like sir...hats off....it doesnt mean that ....SOME MAY CALL AS JALRA.....ITS REALITY,,,,,,,,,,,,,

regards
tbs

 

[palindrome]

HH/Palindrome,

This is the last straw. Please leave the forum and do not come back. I am tired of moderating all your issues and problems every now and then. After this message, this palindrome id is also going to be banned.

Every time its, he said this, she said this, he did that and she did that. Please understand as a brahmin forum you will be subjected to everything under and over the sun. Thats harsh reality and nothing can be done. I simply cannot alienate a lot of members to protect one member.

If you do have other id's, there is nothing stopping you from participating. But if it is going to be like how it is happening now, without warning those id's will also be removed.

I simply cannot have one member causing or being at the centre of all issues (small or big).

Period.

Like it or dont, you had a chance to do things differently under this id. But you chose not to and you have only yourself to blame for this debacle.

 

[DrBarani]

Also sir what you call respect is actually a "demand" for respect. It’s a "demand" to allow obfuscations by brahminists to go unchallenged; and even expect respect for it.

Since my name appeared in your post, I felt imperative to respond. I do not know you before. But reading your post it appears like you are HH using an alternate ID. If that is the case, you don't have to complain at all, as you have not been really banned.

no matter how hilarious or ridiculous it is. Like claiming Brahminism is like an advanced scientific subject like Einstein's theory of relativity.

Actually, relativity theories are simple. You can learn them in a week. On the otherhand, thousands of years of efforts gone into Hindu Scriptures, those aren't easy to learn.

From your post, Dr.Barani i gather possibly you are one of protesters. Perhaps you heeded to Kunjuppu's call and came out in the open and have openly expressed what you feel.

I think you are getting mentally disturbed today, HH. You need a break. Your emotions are driving you into saying things that will come back and haunt you another day.

 

[sangom]

I was angered once when the debates with KRS took place. Then there was a genuine desire to move out of forum for personal work but I decided to leave with a discussion on hypocrisy. I was tempted and stayed back. I started a genuine discussion on quantum theory. However considering the events in the forum , I think I made a mistake, to put down so much of my energy into typing in this forum. All in vain, as I have made more enemies than friends,

Like Yamaka I will be there in internet in an alias name. The name I have given in this forum should actually lead to my real name, and if you knew me, by my writing style you will be able to locate me there on the net. One day if you should read a work on the pointless quest of god in science and physics know it is me. I would still visit and pen down my thoughts here for those with whom I had a good experience.

May this forum continue but someday I am sure only if youth start participating here, will it become an open forum.

Bye and friends I will try to see you while I can but the idea for the present is to resist my temptations.

S/Shri Subbudu, Yamaka,

Kindly inform me also by PM about your internet ID. I could learn many new things from the writings of both of you. And as an elderly person (I think so at least) to both of you, what I would suggest to you and any others who want to disassociate from this forum, is to resist that temptation and continue giving your views here. I am saying this because as Shri Subbudu has said, the notion of God and frenzied allegiance to religion, are cultivated traits and so our theist friends are in the core of their hearts, afraid that our observations will de-addict some of their flock.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

அன்றே சொன்னார்கள்! நன்றே சொன்னார்கள் !

1. தினை விதைத்தவன் தினை அறுப்பான் என்றும்

2. வினை விதைத்தவன் வினை அறுப்பான் என்றும்!

3. அரசன் அன்றே கொல்வான், தெய்வம் நின்று கொல்லும்!

4. கத்தி எடுத்தவன் கத்தியாலேயே மடிவான்!

5. பல நாள் திருடன் ஒரு நாள் அகப்படுவான்,

6. சாது மிரண்டால் காடு கொள்ளாது.

இன்னமும் உள்ளன ஏராளம் ஆனவை!

சென்று காணுங்கள் East meets West இல்! -

NOW I AM ASSURED THAT GOD DOES EXIST-
NOT THAT I DOUBTED IT EARLIER!

HH/Palindrome,

This is the last straw. Please leave the forum and do not come back. I am tired of moderating all your issues and problems every now and then. After this message, this palindrome id is also going to be banned.

Every time its, he said this, she said this, he did that and she did that. Please understand as a brahmin forum you will be subjected to everything under and over the sun. Thats harsh reality and nothing can be done. I simply cannot alienate a lot of members to protect one member.

If you do have other id's, there is nothing stopping you from participating. But if it is going to be like how it is happening now, without warning those id's will also be removed.

I simply cannot have one member causing or being at the centre of all issues (small or big).

Period.

Like it or dont, you had a chance to do things differently under this id. But you chose not to and you have only yourself to blame for this debacle.

 

[tbs]

அன்றே சொன்னார்கள்! நன்றே சொன்னார்கள் !

1. தினை விதைத்தவன் தினை அறுப்பான் என்றும்

2. வினை விதைத்தவன் வினை அறுப்பான் என்றும்!

3. அரசன் அன்றே கொல்வான், தெய்வம் நின்று கொல்லும்!

4. கத்தி எடுத்தவன் கத்தியாலேயே மடிவான்!

5. பல நாள் திருடன் ஒரு நாள் அகப்படுவான்,

6. சாது மிரண்டால் காடு கொள்ளாது.

இன்னமும் உள்ளன ஏராளம் ஆனவை!

சென்று காணுங்கள் East meets West இல்! -

NOW I AM ASSURED THAT GOD DOES EXIST-
NOT THAT I DOUBTED IT EARLIER!

hi VR

இப்படி பேசுகிறவர்களுக்கு சப்பை கட்டு கட்டறவங்க அதிகம்...கொஞ்சம் உண்மையே சொன்னால் " ஜால்ரா "
என்பார்கள்................

regards
tbs

 

[tbs]

HH/Palindrome,

This is the last straw. Please leave the forum and do not come back. I am tired of moderating all your issues and problems every now and then. After this message, this palindrome id is also going to be banned.

Every time its, he said this, she said this, he did that and she did that. Please understand as a brahmin forum you will be subjected to everything under and over the sun. Thats harsh reality and nothing can be done. I simply cannot alienate a lot of members to protect one member.

If you do have other id's, there is nothing stopping you from participating. But if it is going to be like how it is happening now, without warning those id's will also be removed.

I simply cannot have one member causing or being at the centre of all issues (small or big).

Period.

Like it or dont, you had a chance to do things differently under this id. But you chose not to and you have only yourself to blame for this debacle.

hi praveen ji,
u did a good job.....but its little late......u would have done earlier.......this is warning for others tooo....

regards
tbs

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

சொல்லும் விஷயம்
நல்லதாக இருந்தால்
நன்றாக ஜால்ரா அடிக்கலாம்!
நண்பரே வாருங்கள்!!

hi VR

இப்படி பேசுகிறவர்களுக்கு சப்பை கட்டு கட்டறவங்க அதிகம்...கொஞ்சம் உண்மையே சொன்னால் " ஜால்ரா "
என்பார்கள்................

regards
tbs

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom sir,

You took the trouble of answering the questions and they were found to be childlike, charming isn't? This is a tactic, never commit to anything, ask questions in the hope of finding an opening to criticize and put down. This is why we are unlikely to find their un-childlike answers to these very same questions.

The trouble is, many of the participants from the "other" side have no problem asserting they know "it" and anyone who has a different view and dares to express them are childlike, silly, arrogant (the arrogant charge is the most ironic of all -- breathtaking chutzpah), etc.

I am of the view we all take this very seriously and try to find answers that make the best sense to us. If I characterize the stand with which I disagree as "childlike", I think I would be arrogant and condescending.

Cheers!

Dear Shri Nara,

To me tks' style as described by you ably reminds some one from the past! And I am more than elated at getting a certificate that at least in my writings I am seen as "child-like" which means simplicity and innocence. My clarion call is therefore, "Become agnostics and become child-like !"
Nehru was also a known agnostic and children were very fond of their "Chacha Nehru".

 

[sangom]

atheist claim :- validity of personal experience and intuition as general proof


why break our head with all the god notion as eg. lets take this simple question, (keeping away the god intuition here, but a closer analogy of "intuition" vis a vis "dream".

say, i had a dream yesterday night that 'london bridge was falling down'. am i telling a lie, i know not. i told my friend, he didnt ask for proof, but helped me with an interpretation.

do atheist rejects one's dream and ask for proof? one step further, does a scientist atheist ask for proof? if so, my question is, what kind of proof they need? what are the modalities/ tests and documents they needed? or what tests atheists have on hand to prove me that I have not had that particular dream of 'london bridge falling down' yesterday. atheists fail to understand science has its own limitations.

the same is the case with god intuition? take a test on all humans and prove them wrong about their belief in god.

Shri ShivKC,

In my personal view I agree with you if what you are saying is that the theists' belief in God is very similar to your dream of London Bridge falling apart. But the problem arises because even after waking up and seeing that the London Bridge is intact, you insist that all others should go by your dream truth and not the "reality" as they see. Agreed that the theists have full freedom to believe all that they want about God. But why should they not consider - going by some of the opinions expressed here - that the non-theists are also actuated by the very God in whom they have absolute trust? Did God enjoin on them the duty to defend his existence, power and majesty?

atheist claim :- science defeats theism

atheism was there even 3000 years ago. charvaka, aristotle all got their names in written in history, much before religions got established all around the globe. science was there too. pythagorus, euclid,Baudhayana,Kātyāyana,aryabhatta also lived parallel.

modern science came in , so is the modern philosophy to support atheism.

all these infers, atheism existed very much in the past, and moved in tandem with development of science and maths.

but religion grew faster, especially in the last 1000 years, where are atheism is still in the same infantile stage, with 1-3 persons following. even charvakas period also, atheist head count was not visibly notable.

so atheist claim of science rejecting religion is all wrong. and my question is, why even now, the head count of atheists is very minuscule?

Mankind has existed for at least a million years according to archaeologists, but individuals creating epoch-making discoveries have been few and far between. The theists may say it is done on purpose by God as part of his "leela" or entertainment but the fact remains that only very few people have really contributed to the civilizational progress of Man. In a similar way (in my humble opinion) people who doubt, question or deny the existence of God have always been few because such an act requires a lot of intellectual honesty and fearlessness to face the wrath of the believers.

The theists who ascribe every fluttering of a leaf also to God's conscious action, somehow get all frenzied up when someone says that it is possible to live without a belief in God. I can only explain this phenomenon as some sort of addiction. And I had one occasion to witness the scene of one Ganja addict (brother of my friend) going wild because he could not get his dose for a few days.

 

[tks]

Actually, relativity theories are simple. You can learn them in a week. On the otherhand, thousands of years of efforts gone into Hindu Scriptures, those aren't easy to learn.

DrBarani and All-

A few points.

1. I can speak to this from first hand experience.
There are many science and engineering disciplines that can be self taught.

Serious study of BG (Gita), certain verses of Upanishads, Brahma Sutras require tremendous preparation and a qualified teacher is needed. Many times a single word or a single verse has all ofthe essence of the entire text.

As I explained in a post long ago (which was misunderstood and probably ridiculed

) 'when part has the whole' like a every cell having the DNA sequence codes of the whole, it is hard to get the big picture. To learn a verse properly one has to know the context of the whole. But then to get the context one has to study all the key verses. This is a catch-22 situation indeed. Unless one has gone through even one verse and studied that properly it is hard to appreciate the point I am making.

Preaching is easy - you tell someone something and ask them to accept it or else ..
Teaching is hard since the topic has to be understood by the student without asking them to 'believe' though initial Shradha is a pre-requisite..

The way the catch-22 situation is resolved is by the help of a teacher who knows the 'whole' and can explain every verse with the right context. This is very different from study of any of the science topics I have come across.

The question is - how did that teacher get that big picture. It is from his teacher and so on.

We do not know who the first teacher is - we call that Lord Dakshinamurthy.

In a proper setting it is possible to 'prove' why the core message of the subject matter of the Upanishads can never be arrived at by any 'means of knowledge' available to us. It could be a total guess or illogical intuition by a seer or sage. Regardless, the study requires enormous effort and thinking faculty in my minimal experience.

So let a few have fun laughing at your statement (or mine). In fact I am more than happy to have fun laughing with them - but I will be laughing at how their mind works

2. There was movie called 'Witness'
It is about Amish life-style who try to live a simple life without electricity even today. In the movie they show many locals teasing and making fun of Amish because the Amish never fight back. There are about 15000 people living a life like this in one area of Pennsylvania alone and we have visited their farms.

In some sense, 'Real Brahmins' are like the Amish and tend to not fight back for a variety of reasons - here I am not referring to those pseudo Brahmins who follow rituals without understanding and feel superior and act so all due to birth alone.

I am referring to all those who are predominantly Satvic in nature and to me that represents Brahminism (even if someone is not born in a strict brahmin family).

Appropriate responses (perhaps from me and may be you and few others) showing illogical statement of followers of 'holy agnosticism' when they resort to bashing and negativity is appropriate in my view.

3. I have no desire to stop any views from being aired or banned. However banning is a decision of the moderators and owners and in my view we must not question that. After all posting in this forum or any forum is a privilege and not a right.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

After all posting in this forum or any forum is a privilege

and not a right.

May I make a slight change and replace the word

'right' by the word 'birth right'?

Words to be remembered by all the

honorable members of the forum

who are given FREE, unlimited and UNEDITED

space- hoping that they will edit their own posts!

I KNOW how difficult it is to secure a space in a

magazine/ or a newspaper

and what it means to get some writing space in a

Forum of this size!

 

[tks]

Shri ShivKC,


Mankind has existed for at least a million years according to archaeologists, but individuals creating epoch-making discoveries have been few and far between. The theists may say it is done on purpose by God as part of his "leela" or entertainment but the fact remains that only very few people have really contributed to the civilizational progress of Man. In a similar way (in my humble opinion) people who doubt, question or deny the existence of God have always been few because such an act requires a lot of intellectual honesty and fearlessness to face the wrath of the believers.

The theists who ascribe every fluttering of a leaf also to God's conscious action, somehow get all frenzied up when someone says that it is possible to live without a belief in God. I can only explain this phenomenon as some sort of addiction. And I had one occasion to witness the scene of one Ganja addict (brother of my friend) going wild because he could not get his dose for a few days.

Sri Sangom-ji -
Unlike the biblical religions our teachings (not preachings) teach that Isvara is not to be believed but understood.

Most people start with a belief system and may end up dying with that belief system they are raised in. If they are skeptical then there is a possibility to become a believer of another kind (atheism) or seek conversion to another religion or become a follower of 'forever agnosticism' till death.

If one is intellectually honest, fearless, truly want to know the true nature of ourselves and this universe, one would put the effort required and realize & understand a mature definition of Isvara .
One does not have to be a Theist or Atheist or any other eist!

It is easy to reject an immature belief of God but it takes tremendous effort to seek the truth and realize a mature definition of Isvara which starts out with understanding your own true nature first.


Regards

 

[renuka]

"The Hindu Religion does not consists in struggles and attempts to believe a certain doctrine or dogma but in realizing-- not in believing,but in becoming"

Swami Vivekananda

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

Renukaji,
I have already said that it is not belief but experiencing. It is experiencing within
and not experimenting. That is why I can not show God to anyone else. While
asking Does God exist, he forgets that he himself is God. If he sees god or say
his own self in all, there will be pure LOVE - no hatred, no arguments.

The title of this thread itself is - GOD EXISTS. Quite a positive statement.

Our God is very kind and merciful to the extent of taking 'doubts about
HIS existence ' or ' negation ' very sportingly. I can see HIM smiling reading
all our arguments for and against HIM !!!

 

[suraju06]

Some of you take this internet forum postings very seriously in life. You need to pull back for a day and pause, reflect on how much you got immersed into one bulletin board and lost out the aspect called entertainment and fun.

Personally I would not have issued a 'temporary ban' on HH, as my tolerance levels are a bit high in these matters. Having said that, a site owner/moderator has his own prerogative and reasons and one must respect that. He also took pains to explain as much as he can, something that doesn't happen in other forums.

On their part, HH and others shouldn't take this 'temporary ban' seriously. You might not know this personal story - Yahoo used to have a free-for-all message boards in its early years. And I, being one of the very earliest members of yahoo (dating back to 1993) got banned by yahoo, all because I copied and pasted ("quoted") another member's post as reference! I lost my yahoo account. It hurt very badly at that time. I had important emails, job related correspondences etc in that mailbox (those days there wasn't even Win95, let alone personal computers; we used our university workstations). Yahoo was clearly unfair. It didn't even ban the other member who made the original post. It wouldn't respond to my queries on explanation. The post wasn't even offensive, foul or other objectionable matter. It was someone who claimed "this stock will fall". I merely reproduced it, and a stupid yahoo moderator assumed I made that original post that provoked many objections from the stock buyers. In fact, I was one of the stock buyers! Imagine my agony. And I had to live with that unfair treatment. I moved on. Later in many more forums I have had similar treatments and in every case it was unfair. But by then I had learned that it is a price I pay to hang around internet forums.

Each forum is special. It is meant for certain underlying theme, purpose, a target audience. It is necessary for everyone to respect that. The forums aren't about "free speech". Even the self-styled free-speech site like Craigslist is full of censorship. You need to visit its "isle" to see how many genuine posts get isled and members censored.

Nobody stops you from starting your own forum in internet and be your own king. But stop trying to act like you are a crusader for free-speech all because one member got a 'temporary ban'. Some of you act like the sky has fallen on your heads! Your behaviour is hilarious at best, and hysterical at the other end. This site focus is about Tamil Brahmins. Learn to respect the theme. Try to be less of a Brahmin Basher here. Want to hate Brahmins or Brahminism? Start your own site. It is FREE in a million platforms like blogspot. But if you insist on remaining in a brahmin website and your brahmin bashing posts are bounded between lies and ignorance, be prepared to see a backlash. What else do you expect? A Trophy?!

Dr. Barani,

You said all that I wanted to say. So I have clicked a like for this.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Quite an interesting common feature!

Nobody feels the action was UNDUE but

everybody feels that it was OVERDUE!

I guess it is better late than never!

hi praveen ji,
u did a good job.....but its little late......u would have done earlier.......this is warning for others tooo....

regards
tbs

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

:becky: :decision: :doh: are the two choices given by us to God !

Renukaji,
I have already said that it is not belief but experiencing. It is experiencing within
and not experimenting. That is why I can not show God to anyone else. While
asking Does God exist, he forgets that he himself is God. If he sees god or say
his own self in all, there will be pure LOVE - no hatred, no arguments.

The title of this thread itself is - GOD EXISTS. Quite a positive statement.

Our God is very kind and merciful to the extent of taking 'doubts about
HIS existence ' or ' negation ' very sportingly. I can see HIM smiling reading
all our arguments for and against HIM !!!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

I feel pity towards the people
who carry their knowledge
like a 100 K.G. load on their heads
instead of transforming it to
an ounce of love in their hearts!

 

[suraju06]

Dear Mr.K

If you are implying that HH was treated unfairly because she is a woman, I object to that charge in strongest possible terms. It is very likely men have been similarly 'banned' in the past with none of you uttering a word of sympathy. So, lets not make this a gender-class warfare please.
Look, I am not preventing anyone from "Brahmin Bashing" in internet. All I pointed out was, if one is retarded enough to bash brahmins in a website that is primarily visited by Brahmins, then sooner or later a vast majority of them will protest to the website owner and a "ban" becomes inevitable. When the owner is put in a dilemma to choose between a vast majority of clients and a few uninvited bashers, nobody can blame the owner on their decision to protect their interests.
This isn't about me, what I am or what I do. Even if I were not a PhD, a scientist, a believer in God, I would perhaps make the same statement that one brahmin basher shouldn't be that dumb to invade a brahmin theme website to display their intelligence, or its lack thereof, and expect no consequences of their stupid actions.

DrBarani,

You said it.

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Nara, Sangom, Happy, and others

What I found is that there is a need for alternate discussions. In this forum one is not allowed to critically examine religions, gods or even sciences.
One cannot even critically examine Babas and Swamijis. I agree with the statement that the forum is a privilege of its founders and it cannot be argued. This privilege concept is a straight lift off from the age old hierarchical practices. But I will not say anything more here.

But knowledge is the power that can liberate us and we should welcome any source of knowledge and questioning as long as the person is not malicious.

My real interest is in Science and skeptical things. It is these two things that brought democracy.

We also feel for each other in this forum as friends and some times as opponents in an argument.
However the ban on HH has made me feel that any of us can be banned and the reason is in a way because of us. We dont have alternate and additional channels of expressing opinions.

Lot of things depend on you guys. I have a plan let us start a forum - Science, Religion and their relation - An objective forum. People can continue to be members of this forum. But I would like to continue my quantum discussion in a separate place as after all my efforts , I would still be hated in this forum.
But it will not only be about Quantum, the vedas can be openly and critically questioned line by line. The concept of health in Ayurveda can be questioned. Religious defenders will also have a place. But they like atheists should have a thick skin. The discussion should be so open and so free that only vulgar language and personal accusations, rumours and unfounded assumptions about real people( information for which there is no respectable source) would be banned.

The ownership of the forum should be democratic. A respected person like Sangom will be the person who will pick the people for initial selection of an approval committee. So the process will be democratic/ anyone can be approved to become a member of the commitee if democratically a candidate is approved for becoming member of the committee. We can have various checkpoints and rules provided a person is interested. There are various free ways a forum can be started. It may also be as simple as a Yahoo group that can be formed. If interested please let me know. I will setup that based on your suggestions. If for example any comment needs to be moderated it should be a simple democratic decision by the approval committee. Democracy should rule. Awaiting your inputs and interest.

The idea behind this forum is not to oppose the current one. But the idea is to have a free rational scientific discussion pertaining to religion. We can discuss the specifics of the area we want. It should not be a repeat of this forum and should complement it. So a person can have no difficulty participating in both forums simultaneously. This way just because of a person's view we should not stand to loose. The forum should not be about market. 10 people will be good enough , quality matters not quantity. If there are few participants it will be a common area of exchange of ideas and concepts. However we like we can take it forward democratically without suppressing freedom of exchange.