Hinduism Vs Rest

[NARAS]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

SINCE INDIA'S POPULATION IS LARGE, NUMBER OF DEVOTEES IS ALSO NATURALLY HIGH, AND THEREFORE CROWDS PILE UP DURING AUSPICIOUS DAYS, IN TEMPLES, LEADING TO SOME PERSONS GETTING FRUSTRATED AS THEY HAVE TO STAND IN QUEUES FOR LONG HOURS. THESE FRUSTRATED PERSONS NATURALLY BRING FORTH NEW THEORIES LIKE ' I DO NOT NEED MIDDLEMEN BETWEEN ME & GOD!' & ' THERE IS NO NEED FOR A SPECIAL DAY TO WORSHIP GOD! ALL DAYS ARE EQUAL' ETC., ETC.,,...!!!!![/quote]

SIR - I was reading a book on Hinduism published by Giri Trading, chennai. in this book there is an interesting story about astrology. it is said there was a king who was blessed with a child. he invited many astrologers to forecast about the child. all the astrologers gave a very good account about the child's future. but one astrologer alone is reported to have predicted the child's death soon. it so happened that the child died in a few days. though the king was shocked, he later recovered and honoured the astrologer with prizes, gifts, etc., The astrologer named 'Mihir" (a boar) howoever, was so unhappy with himself, that he cursed that in future, no astrologer should get his predictions 100% right!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - the word HINDU or even the word ARYAN is not at all found in any of the orthodox scruiptures . it is the word 'brahmin' which is found in many orthodox scriptures.
. a person can be a brahmin only by birth. no person born in any other faith can get converted as a brahmin. but any person born in any other faith can get himself converted as 'hindu'. thus the word 'brahmin' has more exclusivity & speciality than the word 'hindu'. of course a non brahmin women, if she marries a brahmin man, become a brahmin herself! (e.g. the great late M.S.Subbulakshmi). similarly, a child born to a brahmin father, even if the mother is a non brahmin, is also considered to be a brahmin.

sir - though a person can only be born as a brahmin ,even non brahmins can adopt & adapt the brahminical way of life if they want to. by following brahminical traditions, tenets, practices, this is also possible. so , though a brahmin can only be made and not born, brahminical way of life can be followed by anybody - even non brahmins!!!!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

How To Become An 'eminent' Historian!!!!!

SIR - do you want to become an eminent 'historian' in india? it is the easiest job in this country! infact, there is no need for any knowledge of history also! pls. visit http://www.voi.org/indology/eminenthistorians1.html. Famous activist Dr. arun shourie exposes how many persons have become 'eminent historians, just because they happen to be 'leftists'!!
these 'leftist' historians(?) vomit venom on brahminism& orthodox hinduism, but surprisingly eulogise islam, christianity & buddhism, though they claim to be 'athiests'! in fact,the communists even supported formation of a pakistan in 1947 on the basis of religion, even though they claim to be anti-religion!!!

or for that matter take the case of sonia maino, the darling of english newspapers & english channels & the so called 'secularists' & discredited leftists. apart from publicly urinating hatred on brahminis & orthodox hinduism, there is nothing noticeable in the maino's 9 yr. old political career! it is on the basis of this hatred that she has become an 'eminent' 'secularist'!!!!

 

[goundamani]

Hinduism is not the same as Christianity and islam. Christianity, irrespective of its sect, and Islam are conceptually orthodox. The two, by their very tenet and doctrine, are religions of exclusivity and autocratic. That means, the view of god is one and only one way; any other interpretation is condemned and unacceptable. There is no room for flexibility or negotiations. Tolerance in these two religions means putting up with but not accepting. Hinduism is the only religion that accepts and embraces diversity in spiritual paths. The only liberal Christian is one who has left Christianity or no longer practices it, if one could still call him a Christian. A devout Christian therefore is a fanatic with a closed mind who forbids any variations in the spiritual path. Only communism and Islam, which both declare ‘my way or no way’, come close to Christianity in principle.

Philosophically and by the way a religion is practiced, Hinduism(not brahmanism) is much superior to these two religions.

You are not acquainted with the Upanishads/Vedanta, or the Gita, I see. If the only reason for being proud or not being proud, of being part of a religion is the behavior of few people, then there can’t be much depth in your identification with the religion, can there. An appreciation of religion comes from understanding the tenets of its scriptures, and not how x or y acts. Otherwise, a person drifts from one religion to another, based on the hearsay of another.

Scripturewise all these 3 religions fare badly.In Hinduism some goodness and deep philosophy is there in the scriptures along with the bad parts.In christianity along with bad parts, there is some goodness but no philosophy.In Islam,less said the better.


If the DMK declares Hinduism and Vedas are humbug and christianity very rationale, 3/4th of the illiterate and semi-literate population in TN jump to Christianity, and from Christianity to Islam (because someone else says so), and so forth. Understand the scriptures, and you have understood the religion. There is no need then for affirmation to come from anyone else.

The christianity you claim to see is in your fantasies, and nothing more. Some Indian Christians have imbibed the hindu perception of God and hindu philosophy and spiritual outlook. This Indian version of christianity is more accommodating and sees God as perceived in hinduism, as loving, compassionate, and friend -figure, as opposed to christianity’s conceptualizing of God – a jealous god who punishes and demands utmost singular loyalty, and loves only those that serve him and only him. Numerous foreign evangelists, time and time again, have remarked in deep frustration and despair that converting Indians is most frustrating, because the Indian converted Christian just won’t let go the hindu way of conceptualizing God and religion.

Indian version of christianity is worse than hinduism.That doesnt mean foreign versions are good.They too are equally bad.

A religion as preached by it's spiritual persons is very bad.But a religion as practiced by the common man is good.I see this trend both in Hinduism and christianity only.In west they call people who are secular and broad minded as catholic,but actually such people should be called as hindu.In this aspect hindus are far better than christians.

Strange declaration. Again, stems from your ignorance on the Vedas. The entire wisdom contained in the Vedas, and which is the heart of Hindu philosophy, are found in these few simple, but profoundly rich statements: Tat Twamasi (Thou art That), Aham Brahmaasmi (I am that Supreme Being/Totality), Ayam Aatmaa Brahma (This Self is Brahma), Aham Vishvam (My universe is my Self), and the well-known Vasudaiva kutumbakam (The world is my family).

That is the irony of vedas.On one hand we say vasudeva kudumpakam,but on the other hand we treat dalits as slaves.We say self is brahma,but dont allow dalits inside temples.That is why i said someparts of vedas are good and someparts are barbaric.

To say (proudly) that you reject Vedas implies your inclination to reject all of the above wisdom, or you have no idea what is contained in the Vedas, or know only what DMK propagandists and christian evangelists have taught the masses to deliberately mislead them. Whatever the reason, its a pity. Its like declaring ‘I think maths/Physics/ chemistry is totally stupid or irrelevant’ when one has never studied maths/physics/chemistry.

maths/physics and chemistry do not ask me to marry women at age 5.
maths/physics and chemistry do not say widow remarriage is prohibited.
maths/physics and chemistry do not argue for sathi.
maths/physics and chemistry do not talk about 4 varnas.
maths/physics and chemistry do not argue that sandalas should not be taught education.

vedas do all this.what should one do to books which propogate such views?Let me get an honest answer.

Every Indian guru, irrespective of his/her own social background, including the contemporary Satya Sai Baba, Mata Amritananda (Amma), Sri Sri Ravi Shankar, Swami Veda barathi, Swami Dayananda Saraswati, and other countless gurus and swamis throughout the world, including those of foreign origins have nothing but praises for the Vedas and its relevance in today’s world. Even the Dalai Lama has expressed great appreciation for the wisdom contained in the Vedas.

I have no respect for godmen.

Unless your intention here is to spread your anti-hindu, pro-christian propaganda, I suggest that you start acquainting yourself with the Upanishads/ Vedanta, Shankara’s philosophy, the Gita, to start with.

.Let us concentrate on the issue at hand without calling each other names.

I already said, it starts from early age –it is about developing the moral character, conduct, and knowledge, and cultivating the right temperament. Thhus it was easier to impart this training from generatiomn o generation. Just like the child of classical musician learns from his own musician parent from very early age. Nothing funny or strange in that.
[

This generation to generation business is what i detest and hate.

Brahmin passes on vedas from generation to generation.

Dalit passes on toilet cleaning from generation to generation.

what a cruel system?This is what i hate in brahmanism.

Reminds of 'Talk global and act local'

 

[goundamani]

Aditya,

All I want to see in hinduism is

1.Total eradication of casteism.
2.Equality to women.

If people who argue with me say that they fully agree with these issues,we dont have anything to argue here.If we agree that castes should go, then we automatically will support love marriages, dalits becoming priests and so on.If this happens, then who cares about what is written in scriptures or books?I am angry at scriptures mostly because people who argue for casteism and women oppression do it in name of scriptures.

Even in this thread people who argue that dalits should not become priests do so because the they say that the scriptures say so.They argue for casteism because scriptures say so.Whom should I blame here?

 

[NARAS]

Aditya,

All I want to see in hinduism is

1.Total eradication of casteism.
2.Equality to women.

If people who argue with me say that they fully agree with these issues,we dont have anything to argue here.If we agree that castes should go, then we automatically will support love marriages, dalits becoming priests and so on.If this happens, then who cares about what is written in scriptures or books?I am angry at scriptures mostly because people who argue for casteism and women oppression do it in name of scriptures.

Even in this thread people who argue that dalits should not become priests do so because the they say that the scriptures say so.They argue for casteism because scriptures say so.Whom should I blame here?

sir- more than what the scriptures say what is important is the MOTIVE of the persons who authored these scriptures. there is no proof or evidence to say that writers of these scriptures were anti-women or discriminatory. they gave prominence to brahmins , because in those days non brahmins were spreading wrong information about scriptures and maligning them. of course, even today many non brahmins do this in the name of 'rationalism'. so the motive of the fathers of these scriptures is to protect them from blasphemy. similarly just because women are kept out of some areas, how can it be said orthodox hinduism is anti women? again, the motive is important. moreover generally what is wrong in restricting a particular faith to a set of people alone? is there any requirement that all religions must be having same type of attitude? remember there is no conversion in brahminism. this is the reason why brahmins have not altered the demographic pattern of any country in the world, unlike muslims and christians who have done so all over the universe, using money power and power of sword!!!!!

i support love marriages between brahmin male & non brahmin females. but not between brahmin female & non brahmin male. because a brahmin female marrying a non brahmin male, means a loss of population to a caste, whose number is already dwindling daily all over the world, when compared to population of other communities, due to adoption of small family norm!!!

even constitution or law does not ban following caste in private matters. so it need not be abolished! how can 'rationalists' abolish caste when they have institutionalised caste quotas all over the country???

the existing arrangement of exclusive priesthood for brahmin priestly families is not an arrangement born out of hatred towards any community. there is no evidence to establish an ulterior motive. so there is no need to change this religion and allow dalits as priests, when even brahmin gods & brahmin devotees & brahmin priests are themselves restricted beyond a point!!!!

you should blame yourselves for not understanding the scriptures properly!!!

 

[NARAS]

Circumcision!!!

SIR - I overheard a muslim who came to my office yesterday saying that male circumcision done by muslim males is very good for their health, and, prevents many diseases!! i said to myself that since muslims are rabid non veggies, they need these types of circumcisions to protect themselves from many diseases! but brahmins, being pure veggies, do not need these types of protections at all, as they are not vulnerable to these types of diseases!!!!

 

[goundamani]

sir- more than what the scriptures say what is important is the MOTIVE of the persons who authored these scriptures. there is no proof or evidence to say that writers of these scriptures were anti-women or discriminatory.

Who knows what their motive was?

Why did they propogate child marriage and prevent widow remarriage?Do you still argue that such laws are valid?

they gave prominence to brahmins , because in those days non brahmins were spreading wrong information about scriptures and maligning them. of course, even today many non brahmins do this in the name of 'rationalism'. so the motive of the fathers of these scriptures is to protect them from blasphemy.

They can write whatever they want with whatever motive.Why should we still obey those laws?Why not follow equality which seems far better than these laws?

similarly just because women are kept out of some areas, how can it be said orthodox hinduism is anti women? again, the motive is important. moreover generally what is wrong in restricting a particular faith to a set of people alone? is there any requirement that all religions must be having same type of attitude? remember there is no conversion in brahminism. this is the reason why brahmins have not altered the demographic pattern of any country in the world, unlike muslims and christians who have done so all over the universe, using money power and power of sword!!!!!

sathi,prevention of widow remarriages all horribly affect brahmin women too.These laws actually did more harm to brahmins and their women.

i support love marriages between brahmin male & non brahmin females. but not between brahmin female & non brahmin male. because a brahmin female marrying a non brahmin male, means a loss of population to a caste, whose number is already dwindling daily all over the world, when compared to population of other communities, due to adoption of small family norm!!!

Islam also does the same thing.Muslim male can marry female of other religion,but muslim female shall not do so.You too have the same mindset.

That is why I say orthodoxies of all religions are bad.

even constitution or law does not ban following caste in private matters. so it need not be abolished! how can 'rationalists' abolish caste when they have institutionalised caste quotas all over the country???

the existing arrangement of exclusive priesthood for brahmin priestly families is not an arrangement born out of hatred towards any community. there is no evidence to establish an ulterior motive. so there is no need to change this religion and allow dalits as priests, when even brahmin gods & brahmin devotees & brahmin priests are themselves restricted beyond a point!!!!

you should blame yourselves for not understanding the scriptures properly!!!

From what I read, I see support of slavery called as caste system, burning widows, racism and so on. I am shocked beyond words.What is there to clearly understand in this? If I 'understand it ' then I also should support slavery, prevention of widow marriages, child marriages and slavery in name of god.

what do you want me to 'understand properly' in this?

 

[NARAS]

Who knows what their motive was?

Why did they propogate child marriage and prevent widow remarriage?Do you still argue that such laws are valid?



They can write whatever they want with whatever motive.Why should we still obey those laws?Why not follow equality which seems far better than these laws?



sathi,prevention of widow remarriages all horribly affect brahmin women too.These laws actually did more harm to brahmins and their women.



Islam also does the same thing.Muslim male can marry female of other religion,but muslim female shall not do so.You too have the same mindset.

That is why I say orthodoxies of all religions are bad.




From what I read, I see support of slavery called as caste system, burning widows, racism and so on. I am shocked beyond words.What is there to clearly understand in this? If I 'understand it ' then I also should support slavery, prevention of widow marriages, child marriages and slavery in name of god.

what do you want me to 'understand properly' in this?

sir - child marriage and widow abuse orignated during islamic rule in india, mostly among non brahmins. these practices were not in scriptures at all.
is has already been made clear in this forum before itself. it were brahmin reformers rajaram mohanroy, dayanand saraswathi, ishwar chandra vidyasagar etc., who brought an end to this system, because of which many women & children, mostly non brahmins were liberated.

what is the meaning of 'equality'? how to enforce this?who will enforce this?
the motive of 'rationalists' is highly suspect because they have no respect, belief or even knowledge about orthodox hinduism.specific equality can never be enforced by any gvt. anywhere in the world! you should learn this from the universal debacle of communism!!!!

in islam, women have always been treated worse than animals right from the days of prophet. (read THE WORLD OF FATWAS BY DR. ARUN SHOURIE). my motive is totally different from the motive of prophet mohammed. so you cannot put both of us in the same team!!!

orthodoxies of other religions are very bad. but orthodoxy of brahmins is the best in the world. in orthodox brahminism, restrictions are placed even on brahmins- even if they are devotees, priests or even gods. this is the uniqueness of brahminsm not found anywhere in other religions. so brahminism is not discriminatory at all. this is what you should try to understand.

 

[NARAS]

sir - child marriage and widow abuse orignated during islamic rule in india, mostly among non brahmins. these practices were not in scriptures at all.
is has already been made clear in this forum before itself. it were brahmin reformers rajaram mohanroy, dayanand saraswathi, ishwar chandra vidyasagar etc., who brought an end to this system, because of which many women & children, mostly non brahmins were liberated.

what is the meaning of 'equality'? how to enforce this?who will enforce this?
the motive of 'rationalists' is highly suspect because they have no respect, belief or even knowledge about orthodox hinduism.specific equality can never be enforced by any gvt. anywhere in the world! you should learn this from the universal debacle of communism!!!!

in islam, women have always been treated worse than animals right from the days of prophet. (read THE WORLD OF FATWAS BY DR. ARUN SHOURIE). my motive is totally different from the motive of prophet mohammed. so you cannot put both of us in the same team!!!

orthodoxies of other religions are very bad. but orthodoxy of brahmins is the best in the world. in orthodox brahminism, restrictions are placed even on brahmins- even if they are devotees, priests or even gods. this is the uniqueness of brahminsm not found anywhere in other religions. so brahminism is not discriminatory at all. this is what you should try to understand.

SIR - it is belief in god which separates man from animals. after all, animals cannot believe in god at all! so 'rationalists', 'atheists' & animals - all fall inthe same category!!!!!!

 

[hariharan1972]

Same song, different tune though

Aditya,

All I want to see in hinduism is

1.Total eradication of casteism.
2.Equality to women.

Goundamani,

I am willing to join the chorus with you, albeit with a different tune.

I want to achieve "Irrelevance of Casteism" in Hinduism rather than "Eradication". Here i am not meaning that i want to carry forward any legacies but if we make caste "irrelevant" i believe it to be a WIN-WIN situation where "valid practices" are protected in the private domain but "identities" are irrelevant in the public domain. The private domain needn't be transgressed since it is linked to the sensibilities/maturity levels of individuals.

I don't know how the future would pan out, but if say after a while "non-brahmins" find it "discriminating" that brahmins wear "poonal" & call for it to be abolished - i would find that "discriminating against the brahmins".

So let us make caste irrelevant.....let us kill mediocracy & promote meritocracy.

 

[hariharan1972]

Some 'aval' for 'melling'

Guys, especially TN based guys,

I am in bengaluru & all Tamil channels are off air. - How do you guys view this ?

Most importantly, since tamil channels are off, forced to see other channels - so for the last week been generally browsing kannada channels

not surprisingly cauvery award is the flavour of all discussions & the channel organising most no. of panel discussions / covering protests etc.. is "Udaya TV" part of the Sun Group. How do you guys view this ?

Sun la pro TN, Udaya la pro Kar - (sithappu yengakittayeva, haiyo haiyo)

Suresh sir - especially your views ?

 

[goundamani]

sir - child marriage and widow abuse orignated during islamic rule in india, mostly among non brahmins. these practices were not in scriptures at all.is has already been made clear in this forum before itself. it were brahmin reformers rajaram mohanroy, dayanand saraswathi, ishwar chandra vidyasagar etc., who brought an end to this system, because of which many women & children, mostly non brahmins were liberated.

sathi is mentioned in scriptures.In mahabharatha,after king pandu died,mathri devi commited sathi. Widow abuse is prevelant among all communities. Brahmins girl children,who were widowed at an early age will shave their heads and wear white saree. They will be called as "mottai papathis" by the society and if they come out in streets, people will consider it as a bad omen. How much more cruel can a system get than this?

In deivathin kural paramacharya mentions the scriptural basis for child marriage, prevention of widow remarriages, samabandhi bojana is not good, and so on.You cannot argue that all these arent scripture based.He has more knolwedge on scriptures than any one of us.

what is the meaning of 'equality'? how to enforce this?who will enforce this?
the motive of 'rationalists' is highly suspect because they have no respect, belief or even knowledge about orthodox hinduism.specific equality can never be enforced by any gvt. anywhere in the world! you should learn this from the universal debacle of communism!!!!

Equality means treating people equal in the eyes of law and god.It can be enforced by government and society.equality doesnt mean equal wealth,height etc etc.

If you dont accept equality,rationalists will be happy.Then they will start oppressing you.why should they not oppress unequals?When you had power you did the same thing.Now they have the power and roles thus get reversed.

in islam, women have always been treated worse than animals right from the days of prophet. (read THE WORLD OF FATWAS BY DR. ARUN SHOURIE). my motive is totally different from the motive of prophet mohammed. so you cannot put both of us in the same team!!!

Brahmanism is no different from islam.They stoned their women to death,you burnt your women to death.They covered their women with purdah.People from your religion covered their widows with white saree and mukkadu.They dont allow women to enter mosques.You did not allow dalits to enter temples.Muslims hated their women walking in streets.In your religion,widows walking in streets were considered as bad omen and people used to curse them.Muslims argue that they are superior to kaffirs.You argue that brahmins are superior to nonbrahmins by birth.

Both of these religions have made their followers fanatics,fascists and cruel.
Throw away this casteism and come to hinduism.embrace rest of hindus as your brothers.Treat them equally.Get treated equally.Hinduism is all encompassing and full of love.casteism is full of hypocracy and bigotry.

orthodoxies of other religions are very bad. but orthodoxy of brahmins is the best in the world. in orthodox brahminism, restrictions are placed even on brahmins- even if they are devotees, priests or even gods. this is the uniqueness of brahminsm not found anywhere in other religions. so brahminism is not discriminatory at all. this is what you should try to understand.

You call gods who are common to all hindus as brahmins.And you say brahmanism restricts even its gods.How shameful can a religion get than this?Who can control god?Who in the world has such power?You keep on repeating that if mahavishnu comes to do pooja in shiva temple,he will not be allowed.I think in your mind you assume mahavishnu as aiyangar and siva as aiyar.

Do you really think that you can stop mahavishnu if he comes to do pooja?Are you so powerful?

You are not to be blamed. You assume that brahmins are more powerful than gods. In your religion brahmin is the god. If others accept your theories, then all have to start praying brahmins instead of praying to gods.

 

[goundamani]

Goundamani,

I am willing to join the chorus with you, albeit with a different tune.

I want to achieve "Irrelevance of Casteism" in Hinduism rather than "Eradication". Here i am not meaning that i want to carry forward any legacies but if we make caste "irrelevant" i believe it to be a WIN-WIN situation where "valid practices" are protected in the private domain but "identities" are irrelevant in the public domain. The private domain needn't be transgressed since it is linked to the sensibilities/maturity levels of individuals.

I don't know how the future would pan out, but if say after a while "non-brahmins" find it "discriminating" that brahmins wear "poonal" & call for it to be abolished - i would find that "discriminating against the brahmins".

So let us make caste irrelevant.....let us kill mediocracy & promote meritocracy.

castes cannot be made irrelevant as long as they exist.

If castes exist in private sphere it still means that sakkilis, matharis,parayans,ambattans, thottis will continue to exist. Upper caste people can produly call themselves as "ramu muthaliyar".But how will lower castes call themselves? If they call themselves as karuppan parayan, sinnan sakkiliyan, sundar ambattan, irulan mathari, raju chamar etc. it will be humiliating to them.

If we call ramu mudhaliar as "eey muthaliyar" he wont feel insulted.But if we call "irulan mathari" as "eeye mathari", he will be offended. He will feel insulted.No upper castes will be offended if they are called as goundare,aiyare, settiyare etc.But if we call lower castes by their caste names as sakkiliya, palla,paraya,mathari,pulaya,chamar,thotti etc, it will hurt them a lot.

we have a situation where caste names themselves have become an insult, a curse, a shame and a source of oppression and tears of many of our brothers.

Upper castes will feel nothing wrong in existence of castes.You have to see this issue from the eyes of the oppressed to understand how they feel.

what benefit does anybody get from retaining castes?It only brings tears and humiliation for our dalit brothers.Unless castes are destroyed and annihilated from all spheres of life, india wont even progress even by an inch.

 

[goundamani]

similarly the important question in this matter is - did the founders of temples have any ULTERIOR MOTIVE in not allowing non brahmins as priest in orthodox temples? my answer is a BIG NO!!! pls. consider the following-

1. even brahmin gods of rival sects cannot enter sanctumsanctorum of orthodox temples!!

2. even brahmin priests of rival sects cannot enter sanctum sanctorum!!

3. even brahmins born outside priestly families of same sect cannot become priests or enter santum sanctorum of orthodox temples!!

the above facts clearly proves that our forefathers & ancestors did not have any ulterior motive in disallowing non brahmins as priests in orthodox temples. had they allowed all brahmins & disallowed all non brahmins then the charges of 'discrimination' & 'untouchability' would have had some meaning. but the fact that they have imposed restrictions even on brahmin gods, brahmin devotees and brahmin priests also clearly proves that there is no proof of any ulterior motive. so the charge of 'discrimination' & 'untouchability' is absurd and i am dismissing this charge with the contempt they deserve!!

This is a classic example of the clever ploy of varnashrama.

In Islam they clearly divided the world into two.Muslims and kaffirs.They called muslims as superior to kaffirs and started oppressing them.In christianity they divided the world as believers and infidels and started oppressing non-believers.later on this helped the oppressed to oppose these religions as a solitary group.There were civil wars and revolts against this oppression.

However such a revolt never happened in hinduism till 1950. Till ambedhkar, periyar , kamarajar, vaidhyanatha aiyyar and gandhi appeared in the scene, there was no revolt of any sort that happened in hinduism. The reason for this is the clever and ingenious ploy of varna system.In varna system, they divided the society into 4 major categories.Among these catgories they further created sub divisions.

For example according to varnashrama, brahmin is superior to ksathriya,vaisya and sandala. ksathriya is inferior to brahmana and superior to vaisya and sandala.vaisyas are inferior to brahmanas and ksathriyas,but are superior to sandalas.Thus in this system ksathriya and vaisya was made to believe that he is benefiting and honored because he is told as superior to sandalas.

dalits were made to stand outside temples.The next two varnas were made to stand outside the sanctorium.Among vaisyas and ksathriyas, ksathriyas will be given preferential treatment by way of "parivattam" "muthal mariyathai" "special archanai" etc.But still they wont be allowed entry into sanctorium.

The other two varnas thought this as a honor.They were happy with the fact that they get a better treatment than dalits.This made them forget that they get a lower treatment than the upper varna.

even among dalits, there were varna divisions.A sakkili was lower than all, he will be humiliated by all 3 varnas.But this wont stop him from humiliating thottis.He will consider himself as higher than thottis and lower than vaisyas.He will insult thotti and get insulted by other 3 varnas.

Similiarly even among brahmins there were caste hierarchies.even though brahmins are superior to other 3 varnas,among brahmins savundi brahmins were considered as lower to all.Gurukkal was considered to be more superior in hierarchy than savundi brahmins and tulu pattars.

This was the clever ploy of varna system.Gurukkal castes will show savundi brahmins to dalits and will say "see we also do not allow savundi brahmins inside the sanctorium along with you.So this is not discrimination".

layer by layer,varna by varna this was oppression and discrimination. Oppressed himself was made to oppress people below him. Just like in dowry system where the mother in law asks for dowry and oppresses daughter in law. Here it is one female who oppresses another female.Here the mother in law forgets that she too was earlier oppressed by dowry system.

Just like how male chavunism turned a woman against another woman, varna system turned one caste against another caste.Only by this clever ploy, it was able to survive without much violence and upraisal for centuries.

 

[NARAS]

sathi is mentioned in scriptures.In mahabharatha,after king pandu died,mathri devi commited sathi. Widow abuse is prevelant among all communities. Brahmins girl children,who were widowed at an early age will shave their heads and wear white saree. They will be called as "mottai papathis" by the society and if they come out in streets, people will consider it as a bad omen. How much more cruel can a system get than this?

In deivathin kural paramacharya mentions the scriptural basis for child marriage, prevention of widow remarriages, samabandhi bojana is not good, and so on.You cannot argue that all these arent scripture based.He has more knolwedge on scriptures than any one of us.



Equality means treating people equal in the eyes of law and god.It can be enforced by government and society.equality doesnt mean equal wealth,height etc etc.

If you dont accept equality,rationalists will be happy.Then they will start oppressing you.why should they not oppress unequals?When you had power you did the same thing.Now they have the power and roles thus get reversed.



Brahmanism is no different from islam.They stoned their women to death,you burnt your women to death.They covered their women with purdah.People from your religion covered their widows with white saree and mukkadu.They dont allow women to enter mosques.You did not allow dalits to enter temples.Muslims hated their women walking in streets.In your religion,widows walking in streets were considered as bad omen and people used to curse them.Muslims argue that they are superior to kaffirs.You argue that brahmins are superior to nonbrahmins by birth.

Both of these religions have made their followers fanatics,fascists and cruel.
Throw away this casteism and come to hinduism.embrace rest of hindus as your brothers.Treat them equally.Get treated equally.Hinduism is all encompassing and full of love.casteism is full of hypocracy and bigotry.



You call gods who are common to all hindus as brahmins.And you say brahmanism restricts even its gods.How shameful can a religion get than this?Who can control god?Who in the world has such power?You keep on repeating that if mahavishnu comes to do pooja in shiva temple,he will not be allowed.I think in your mind you assume mahavishnu as aiyangar and siva as aiyar.

Do you really think that you can stop mahavishnu if he comes to do pooja?Are you so powerful?

You are not to be blamed. You assume that brahmins are more powerful than gods. In your religion brahmin is the god. If others accept your theories, then all have to start praying brahmins instead of praying to gods.

sir - yes! even f mahavishnu comes to pooja in siva temple he cannot enter sanctum sanctorum- because it is only Lord Shiva who is Lord in saivaite temples! so is the case for Lord Shiva himself in vishnu temples. but neither SHIVA NOR VISHNU will quail, wail or lament - because they are matured enough to understand!

i only said sathi, child marriage & widow abuse are not prevelant amng brahmins. it was certainly there among non brahmins of all castes, communities, religions for centuries. during islamic rule in india,the widows would shave off their heads and wear white sarees , to make themselves look ugly, so as to protect their chastity from islamic voyeurs! this s how this practice started! thus the motive was to protect the women's chastity- not to abuse her! like thar queens would commit suicide if their husbands are killed in war because the enemy kings would rape her. so the queens would commit suicide because they felt it is better to die than forfeit their chastity!this was how this practice started!

islam is a fascist religion (read THE WORLD OF FATWAS BY DR. ARUN SHOURIE). the motive of islam is totally different & ulterior from the motives of brahmins. so some pratices may look similar. but if you search the motive, you will find that brahmins did not have any offensive motive at all, whereas islam was founded with the specific purpose of oppresing so called kafirs, women etc.,,,!

when gods are not even common for brahmins, how can they be common for 'hindus'?? absurd!!!

i will definitely throwaway casteism in public life. but i will not throw casteism in private life. even constitution does not demand this!!

bramins are 100% vegetarians.non bramins are 100% non vegetarians, thenhow can bramins dine with non bramins???

you assume non brahmins are more powerful just because they are in a majority. its like a man with 7 feet saying to a man 4 feet -'even if i am wrong, i should prevail over you, because i am 3 feet taller than you!!!' this isthe perfect definition and example of 'fascism'!!!

 

[NARAS]

This is a classic example of the clever ploy of varnashrama.

In Islam they clearly divided the world into two.Muslims and kaffirs.They called muslims as superior to kaffirs and started oppressing them.In christianity they divided the world as believers and infidels and started oppressing non-believers.later on this helped the oppressed to oppose these religions as a solitary group.There were civil wars and revolts against this oppression.

However such a revolt never happened in hinduism till 1950. Till ambedhkar, periyar , kamarajar, vaidhyanatha aiyyar and gandhi appeared in the scene, there was no revolt of any sort that happened in hinduism. The reason for this is the clever and ingenious ploy of varna system.In varna system, they divided the society into 4 major categories.Among these catgories they further created sub divisions.

For example according to varnashrama, brahmin is superior to ksathriya,vaisya and sandala. ksathriya is inferior to brahmana and superior to vaisya and sandala.vaisyas are inferior to brahmanas and ksathriyas,but are superior to sandalas.Thus in this system ksathriya and vaisya was made to believe that he is benefiting and honored because he is told as superior to sandalas.

dalits were made to stand outside temples.The next two varnas were made to stand outside the sanctorium.Among vaisyas and ksathriyas, ksathriyas will be given preferential treatment by way of "parivattam" "muthal mariyathai" "special archanai" etc.But still they wont be allowed entry into sanctorium.

The other two varnas thought this as a honor.They were happy with the fact that they get a better treatment than dalits.This made them forget that they get a lower treatment than the upper varna.

even among dalits, there were varna divisions.A sakkili was lower than all, he will be humiliated by all 3 varnas.But this wont stop him from humiliating thottis.He will consider himself as higher than thottis and lower than vaisyas.He will insult thotti and get insulted by other 3 varnas.

Similiarly even among brahmins there were caste hierarchies.even though brahmins are superior to other 3 varnas,among brahmins savundi brahmins were considered as lower to all.Gurukkal was considered to be more superior in hierarchy than savundi brahmins and tulu pattars.

This was the clever ploy of varna system.Gurukkal castes will show savundi brahmins to dalits and will say "see we also do not allow savundi brahmins inside the sanctorium along with you.So this is not discrimination".

layer by layer,varna by varna this was oppression and discrimination. Oppressed himself was made to oppress people below him. Just like in dowry system where the mother in law asks for dowry and oppresses daughter in law. Here it is one female who oppresses another female.Here the mother in law forgets that she too was earlier oppressed by dowry system.

Just like how male chavunism turned a woman against another woman, varna system turned one caste against another caste.Only by this clever ploy, it was able to survive without much violence and upraisal for centuries.

sir - in brahminism the belief of re birth is very important. it is believed each & every person will be born in each & every varna in each & every birth. e.g. Lord mahavishnu, a bramin, was born as yadava lord krishna in one birth, and before that as kshatriya LordRama in another birth! the people of yesteryears of all castes were matured enough to understand this! but 'rationalists' and their 'apologists' lack the education,literacy & maturity required to appreciate this belief!!!

not only kshatriyas, even bramin priests, devotees, why even god will not be allowed into sanctum sanctorum beyond a point in bramin temples!!! so there is no question of 'oppression' or 'discrimination' in restricting entry in temples for non bramins!!!!

thanks for accepting that BCs like kshatriyas also practiced untouchability!!! then why are 'rationalists' calling these castes as 'oppressed' & awarding quotas for them???after all if they practiced untouchability, then they are also upper castes!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

Guys, especially TN based guys,

I am in bengaluru & all Tamil channels are off air. - How do you guys view this ?

Most importantly, since tamil channels are off, forced to see other channels - so for the last week been generally browsing kannada channels

not surprisingly cauvery award is the flavour of all discussions & the channel organising most no. of panel discussions / covering protests etc.. is "Udaya TV" part of the Sun Group. How do you guys view this ?

Sun la pro TN, Udaya la pro Kar - (sithappu yengakittayeva, haiyo haiyo)

Suresh sir - especially your views ?

sir - performing dual roles that of comedian and villian at the same time is not new to the muthuvelar. he has done it so many times before, and, he will be doing it many time again!

1. in 1970 he opened alcohol shops which were closed till then and ecnouraged people to drink (villian) . at the same time the govt. also propagated evils of drinking (comedian)

2. his govt. controls the Ranganathar temple in srirangam (villian) and at the same time, he permits'rational' vandals to erect statue of the periar right in front of the same temple, which his own govt. is controlling! ( comedian)

there are quite a few examples like this. he supports karnataka govt. in udaya tv (villian) & supports his own govt. in suntv (comedian)!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - there is a difference between attack & abuse. there is also a difference between attack & counter attack. the periar abused brahmins. they counter attacked him. had the 'periar' not abused brahmins, bramins too would not have attacked the fellow. indian law clearly bans disrespecting gods in public. the periar broke Lord Ganesh idols, betraying his ignorance & disreespect of law. the periar was punished by courts. the periar's act is not freedom of speech, but ignorance & disrespect of law!!!

 

[goundamani]

sir - in brahminism the belief of re birth is very important. it is believed each & every person will be born in each & every varna in each & every birth. e.g. Lord mahavishnu, a bramin, was born as yadava lord krishna in one birth, and before that as kshatriya LordRama in another birth! the people of yesteryears of all castes were matured enough to understand this! but 'rationalists' and their 'apologists' lack the education,literacy & maturity required to appreciate this belief!!!

This was the lollipop given to non-brahmins for centuries.Be a perfect dalit in this birth.Do your duty which was levied by manu and obey rules.If you do so in rebirth you will be born as a brahmin.Dont worry about you beinga slave in this birth.If you behave as a perfect slave, You can rule others in rebirth.

In islam they say that if you die in jihad allah will give you 72 virgins in paradise.So sacrifice your life now and get rewards in afterlife.The same trick is followed here also.

not only kshatriyas, even bramin priests, devotees, why even god will not be allowed into sanctum sanctorum beyond a point in bramin temples!!! so there is no question of 'oppression' or 'discrimination' in restricting entry in temples for non bramins!!!!

This is the hierarchy of oppression which I mentioned earlier.Each varna will opress people below them.Thus they wont protest if the varna above them oppresses them.

In colleges current first year students will be ragged by seniors.First year students will accept it because they know that next year they can do the same things to their juniors.It is the same logic.

thanks for accepting that BCs like kshatriyas also practiced untouchability!!! then why are 'rationalists' calling these castes as 'oppressed' & awarding quotas for them???after all if they practiced untouchability, then they are also upper castes!!!!!

I have always said that OBC's also oppressed dalits.Even dalits themselves oppressed thottis and barbers.

 

[NARAS]

This was the lollipop given to non-brahmins for centuries.Be a perfect dalit in this birth.Do your duty which was levied by manu and obey rules.If you do so in rebirth you will be born as a brahmin.Dont worry about you beinga slave in this birth.If you behave as a perfect slave, You can rule others in rebirth.

In islam they say that if you die in jihad allah will give you 72 virgins in paradise.So sacrifice your life now and get rewards in afterlife.The same trick is followed here also.



This is the hierarchy of oppression which I mentioned earlier.Each varna will opress people below them.Thus they wont protest if the varna above them oppresses them.

In colleges current first year students will be ragged by seniors.First year students will accept it because they know that next year they can do the same things to their juniors.It is the same logic.



I have always said that OBC's also oppressed dalits.Even dalits themselves oppressed thottis and barbers.

sir - if non brahmin BC s have also oppressed dalits, then how are theseBCs enjoying quota benefits? Manu only ranked persons based on their caste. on this basis BCs were above so called dalits, and they also oppressed dalits. if brahmins are able to acquire merit because of centuries of domination, why are not BCs able to acquire same domination? after all they also oppressed dalits for centuries!! why muslims & christians who dominated india for so many years, are unable to compete on basis of merit? how are brahmins able to compete purely on basis of merit, inspite of being oppressed by buddhists, muslims and christians for many years???

islam glorifies suicide, violence & death in the name of jehad. but in brahminism life is not be sacrificed by anybody. both of them are totally different.

ragging is banned as per law. any student indulging in ragging is violating law. but any person practising casteism in private life is not violating any law. that is his personal right!!!

dalits themselves have oppressed persons below them. then how can thse dalits claim that they were 'oppressed'??? after all they are also accused!!

the belief of re birth also means for each & every suffering there is an explanation. the explanation is that you are suffering for the mistake committed in your early birth. this is punishment given to you by god. of course, the harshness of the punishment will get reduced if you repent. this explanation is totally absent in other religions. in other religions what is the explanation for suffering? there is no re birth belief in these religions like islam & christianity. so why do allah & jesus allow people to suffer & die? they can very well save the people by using their powers! this is not possible inbrahminism or orthodox hinduism, because god has to punish a person for his sins in previous births. atmost the level of harshness in the punishment can be reduced, if you repent! it cannot be waived off totally! this rule is applicable for all castes - including brahmins also!! so even if ths is a lollipop this lollipop is for all castes!!!!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - if non brahmin BC s have also oppressed dalits, then how are theseBCs enjoying quota benefits? Manu only ranked persons based on their caste. on this basis BCs were above so called dalits, and they also oppressed dalits. if brahmins are able to acquire merit because of centuries of domination, why are not BCs able to acquire same domination? after all they also oppressed dalits for centuries!! why muslims & christians who dominated india for so many years, are unable to compete on basis of merit? how are brahmins able to compete purely on basis of merit, inspite of being oppressed by buddhists, muslims and christians for many years???

islam glorifies suicide, violence & death in the name of jehad. but in brahminism life is not be sacrificed by anybody. both of them are totally different.

ragging is banned as per law. any student indulging in ragging is violating law. but any person practising casteism in private life is not violating any law. that is his personal right!!!

dalits themselves have oppressed persons below them. then how can thse dalits claim that they were 'oppressed'??? after all they are also accused!!

the belief of re birth also means for each & every suffering there is an explanation. the explanation is that you are suffering for the mistake committed in your early birth. this is punishment given to you by god. of course, the harshness of the punishment will get reduced if you repent. this explanation is totally absent in other religions. in other religions what is the explanation for suffering? there is no re birth belief in these religions like islam & christianity. so why do allah & jesus allow people to suffer & die? they can very well save the people by using their powers! this is not possible inbrahminism or orthodox hinduism, because god has to punish a person for his sins in previous births. atmost the level of harshness in the punishment can be reduced, if you repent! it cannot be waived off totally! this rule is applicable for all castes - including brahmins also!! so even if ths is a lollipop this lollipop is for all castes!!!!!!

sir - apologists of reservation are saying'how can castes oppressed for centuries suddenly acquire merit?' reminds me of a man who was
about to be married saying 'how can i suddenly get married? . i do not have any previous experience!!' if these castes where 'oppressed' for so many centuries, the founding fathers of our constitution would have been very liberal in awarding caste quotas. but indian constitution permits quotas only for sc/st (not for BCs, chritians, muslims!) that too only for 10 years and that too only in some govt.jobs & some educational spheres! this nails the lie of 'rationalists' and their 'apologists' that many castes were 'oppressed' for centuries!!!!!!

the bottom line is that there are many things in the world which a person has to do by himself. others cannot evenhelp indirectly. like for example, becoming a father! in a country where 95 % of population lived in rural areas,
(and almost 70%still live in rural areas as per latest census report)
and were not dependent on govt.jobs or educations, to award quotas on basis of caste that too permanently and for a percentage well in excess of persons competing for the vancancies, is the most foolish thing to do! many castes were not able to acquire merit because the members of these castes where based predominantly in rural areas, and thus were kept out of modern education & govt. jobs. quotas encourage laziness & mediocrity. quotas discourage merit. quotas bring disinterested persons into jobs, whereas interested persons are kept out. moreover when people of all castes pay taxes,, what right do these 'rationalists' have to keep away tax payers from govt. jobs & education which are running out of tax payers money?
caste quotas also violate basic structure of indian constitution which proclaims equality for all before law, irrespective of caste and religion.
quotas force people to migrate from rural to urban areas in search of jobs. quotas bring disinterested women into jobs, whereas interested men are kept out!

if you want to take revenge upon bramins, do it out of your own money! you do not have right to misuse public funds & tax payers money for settling personal scores!!! how can govts. force colleges found by persons out of their own money to follow govt. policy of caste quotas???

i am also a pro-reservationist. do you know how? i support 100% reservation for MERIT in jobs and education!!!!!

 

[goundamani]

sir - if non brahmin BC s have also oppressed dalits, then how are theseBCs enjoying quota benefits? Manu only ranked persons based on their caste. on this basis BCs were above so called dalits, and they also oppressed dalits. if brahmins are able to acquire merit because of centuries of domination, why are not BCs able to acquire same domination?

BC's were permitted only farming and warfare.Thus they lagged behind brahmins in education and couldnt dominate.

after all they also oppressed dalits for centuries!! why muslims & christians who dominated india for so many years, are unable to compete on basis of merit? how are brahmins able to compete purely on basis of merit, inspite of being oppressed by buddhists, muslims and christians for many years???

Muslims never gave importance to education.Their education stopped in madarassas.christians compete equally with brahmins.Reservation is given only for dalit christians and backward christian castes like nadar christians.

islam glorifies suicide, violence & death in the name of jehad. but in brahminism life is not be sacrificed by anybody. both of them are totally different.

Sathi mathas were glorified in brahmanism.Dalits were asked to sacrifice by not getting educated and doing their parent's job.Both religions are similiar in this regard.

ragging is banned as per law. any student indulging in ragging is violating law. but any person practising casteism in private life is not violating any law. that is his personal right!!!

Untouchability is banned in law.

dalits themselves have oppressed persons below them. then how can thse dalits claim that they were 'oppressed'??? after all they are also accused!!

That is the beauty of varnashrama.All 3 varnas will oppress dalits.Dalits will oppress thottis.The lower you go in varna order,higher will be the oppression.

the belief of re birth also means for each & every suffering there is an explanation. the explanation is that you are suffering for the mistake committed in your early birth. this is punishment given to you by god. of course, the harshness of the punishment will get reduced if you repent. this explanation is totally absent in other religions. in other religions what is the explanation for suffering? there is no re birth belief in these religions like islam & christianity. so why do allah & jesus allow people to suffer & die? they can very well save the people by using their powers! this is not possible inbrahminism or orthodox hinduism, because god has to punish a person for his sins in previous births. atmost the level of harshness in the punishment can be reduced, if you repent! it cannot be waived off totally! this rule is applicable for all castes - including brahmins also!! so even if ths is a lollipop this lollipop is for all castes!!!!!!

Explanations for man's suffering given in all religions doesnt make any sense to me.

Your lolipop made dalits to endure their slavery believing that they suffer because of their sins in previous birth.This made them to think that brahmins were superior because they must have done punya is previous birth.concept of fate was introduced to make dalits believe that their fate is sealed by god and whatever they do, there is no escape from fate.They have to do theior father's job because it is fate.

This this lolipop was equal to a master giving a slave a lolipop as wages.

 

[NARAS]

BC's were permitted only farming and warfare.Thus they lagged behind brahmins in education and couldnt dominate.



Muslims never gave importance to education.Their education stopped in madarassas.christians compete equally with brahmins.Reservation is given only for dalit christians and backward christian castes like nadar christians.



Sathi mathas were glorified in brahmanism.Dalits were asked to sacrifice by not getting educated and doing their parent's job.Both religions are similiar in this regard.



Untouchability is banned in law.



That is the beauty of varnashrama.All 3 varnas will oppress dalits.Dalits will oppress thottis.The lower you go in varna order,higher will be the oppression.



Explanations for man's suffering given in all religions doesnt make any sense to me.

Your lolipop made dalits to endure their slavery believing that they suffer because of their sins in previous birth.This made them to think that brahmins were superior because they must have done punya is previous birth.concept of fate was introduced to make dalits believe that their fate is sealed by god and whatever they do, there is no escape from fate.They have to do theior father's job because it is fate.

This this lolipop was equal to a master giving a slave a lolipop as wages.

sir - sathi was glorified with the motive of projecting how a woman sacrifices her life instead of compromising with her chastity. this does not mean all women should commit sati after their husbands die!!!

if dalits, muslims suffered so much, why is it that fathers of indian constitution gave caste quotas only for 10 yrs, that too only in some select govt. jobs & educational spheres,that too only for sc/st and not for muslims? if the 'sufferings' of 'dalits' and muslims were so horrible, i am sure the founders & fathers of indian constitution would have been much much more liberal in awarding quotas. the very fact that they have been so strict in quota allocation, shows that even they did not subcribe to the viewpoint of 'rationalists'! at least they did not agree that a revenge should be taken by govt.!!!

whatever christians have achieved is because of govt.support by ways of quotas & various other concessions, whereas whatever brahmins have achieved is without any govt. support. you cannot compare both of them! christians are like beggar depending on govt. support, whereas brahmins are standing on their own feet inspite of governmental oppression!!

in other religions , explanation for suffering is that god is 'testing' the devotee! as Dr. arun shourie has said , what sort of god is he who having created man, is busy 'testing' him with sufferings??? in orthodox hinduism, explanatio for suffering is that it is not testing, but punishment for sins committed in this & previous births!! the punishment will be reduced if you repent! but it cannot be waived totally! even god is helpess in this matter! this 'lollipop' is common to all castes- including brahmins!!!

untouchability is banned in public life only. in private life, nobody can force 'rationalism' on you. can anybody say for example that a brahmin boy should marry only a girl of other caste & not a brahmin??? impossible!!!

 

[NARAS]

sir - there is a difference between attack & abuse. there is also a difference between attack & counter attack. the periar abused brahmins. they counter attacked him. had the 'periar' not abused brahmins, bramins too would not have attacked the fellow. indian law clearly bans disrespecting gods in public. the periar broke Lord Ganesh idols, betraying his ignorance & disreespect of law. the periar was punished by courts. the periar's act is not freedom of speech, but ignorance & disrespect of law!!!

sir - the periar's most famous vomits are about women. according to the periar, women should not have any chastity at all and have free sex.!! the question is , did maniyammai, who was 'with' the periar for so many years follow this principle of 'no chastity' & 'free sex'???