Indesent Dressing by Girls

[C RAVI]

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Mr. Kumar just you say "it seems a lost Cause" to expect these people to understand how insensitive their conclusions for the rape victims.

Then again these people also feel that domestic violence is due to women.

It is really stretching too much towards a childish accusations that these people are insensitively concluding for the rape victims.

If a ignorant and innocent man get caught on baseless charges and unreasonably gets into legal course against him, we would certainly feel pained for him and even get on roads to protest against the injustice done to him. That doesn't mean that we would close our eyes and refrain from educating him how to be aware of the things around him, how not to be too innocent etc so that in future he can be alert. We also would not refrain from passing on the case to all our know people, through media etc as how innocence can put oneself in trouble, so that others can learn for the incident.

It is an exaggerated baseless accusation that these people blame "only women" for "all kind of" sexual abuses right from home, office, schools, colleges, isolated areas, crowded buses, orphanages, mental rehabilitation centers etc..etc. Such exaggerated baseless accusations are done to deliberately put these people in bad picture and that's the very cheap manner to engage in a debate. Such baseless accusations are also done to agitate a victim of sexual abuse and or to agitate their related family members so that the they can effectively put down these people.

 

[P.J.]

Dear PJ,

Your post #173. I accept your sympathies.

However I would like to ask you one question. Did I ever mention that women should not wear any clothes or walk around in bras/bikinis?

I was just trying to make the point that repeated assertions by men asking ladies to dress decently, trivializes the horror of "rape". As you mention in your second paragraph, rape happens for various reasons and men need to be sympathetic to victims who have undergone the torture. No amount of reading or anything a man can do will make a man understand the trauma a woman undergoes after "rape". I have had dealings with first hand narrations and to some extent I can recognize the trauma. You, a man in 70s, I thought, would understand this better than some of the younger members.

This topic is very close to my heart and that's why I posted. Normally I do not participate in these kind of societal discussions because I find they normally generate more heat than light

K. Kumar

Sri.Kumar Sir

I am sympathetic to what had happened to that women, I am sorry.
If you would see OP, you will understand why i posted this topic.

Mr.Ali was advising his daughters to wear decently, and i thought this Advice is good for every women, and possibly it can save women from their physical violations; I also understand wearing decent dress alone is not a guarantee against Rape, there are many other reasons for such sinful crime.

when any female between 4-80 is raped as is pointed out by members here, one can easily understand dress alone need not be a reason for a Rape; but at the same time Dress is also Important to some extend to for women to safe guard them against any assault.

All my point is that It is better to wear a Decent Dress and definition of a decent dress varies from place to place, and culture to culture.

 

[palindrome]

Sri.Kumar Sir

I am sympathetic to what had happened to that women, I am sorry.
If you would see OP, you will understand why i posted this topic.

Mr.Ali was advising his daughters to wear decently, and i thought this Advice is good for every women, and possibly it can save women from their physical violations; I also understand wearing decent dress alone is not a guarantee against Rape, there are many other reasons for such sinful crime.

when any female between 4-80 is raped as is pointed out by members here, one can easily understand dress alone need not be a reason for a Rape; but at the same time Dress is also Important to some extend to for women to safe guard them against any assault.

All my point is that It is better to wear a Decent Dress and definition of a decent dress varies from place to place, and culture to culture.

WRT the point in bold "Dress is also important". Lets make it simple. If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

 

[P.J.]

WRT the point in bold "Dress is also important". Lets make it simple. If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

Sir

There are other reasons apart from Dress ,one gets Raped.

 

[prasad1]

It is really stretching too much towards a childish accusations that these people are insensitively concluding for the rape victims.

If a ignorant and innocent man get caught on baseless charges and unreasonably gets into legal course against him, we would certainly feel pained for him and even get on roads to protest against the injustice done to him. That doesn't mean that we would close our eyes and refrain from educating him how to be aware of the things around him, how not to be too innocent etc so that in future he can be alert. We also would not refrain from passing on the case to all our know people, through media etc as how innocence can put oneself in trouble, so that others can learn for the incident.

It is an exaggerated baseless accusation that these people blame "only women" for "all kind of" sexual abuses right from home, office, schools, colleges, isolated areas, crowded buses, orphanages, mental rehabilitation centers etc..etc. Such exaggerated baseless accusations are done to deliberately put these people in bad picture and that's the very cheap manner to engage in a debate. Such baseless accusations are also done to agitate a victim of sexual abuse and or to agitate their related family members so that the they can effectively put down these people.

Wow, where do you go with your logic, people have been saying that Rape happens because of women's dress. You have been in forefront of telling women to cover themselves as if that is going to stop rapes. And now you are indignant that I pointed out your hypocrisy.

If you want to hold on to your position that is your prerogative. I have nothing to add.

 

[palindrome]

Sir

There are other reasons apart from Dress ,one gets Raped.

Lets not talk about other people and reasons. My question is very simple -- If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

 

[prasad1]

WRT the point in bold "Dress is also important". Lets make it simple. If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

Wow that is loaded question. And may be unfair.

 

[palindrome]

Wow that is loaded question. And may be unfair.

No sir, its not unfair. So far 3 men have argued out all thru the thread (Ravi, PJ and Sangom sir). So, now i want to ask all 3 of them this question straight -- If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

 

[P.J.]

Lets not talk about other people and reasons. My question is very simple -- If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

You advice women to walk naked on Chennai Roads?
This argument is going nowhere.

All I am saying , Decent dress is also important for women.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear PJ,

Your post #173. I accept your sympathies.

However I would like to ask you one question. Did I ever mention that women should not wear any clothes or walk around in bras/bikinis?

I was just trying to make the point that repeated assertions by men asking ladies to dress decently, trivializes the horror of "rape". As you mention in your second paragraph, rape happens for various reasons and men need to be sympathetic to victims who have undergone the torture. No amount of reading or anything a man can do will make a man understand the trauma a woman undergoes after "rape". I have had dealings with first hand narrations and to some extent I can recognize the trauma. You, a man in 70s, I thought, would understand this better than some of the younger members.

This topic is very close to my heart and that's why I posted. Normally I do not participate in these kind of societal discussions because I find they normally generate more heat than light

K. Kumar

Shri kkumar,

Why and what way do you feel that we could not understand the trauma the rape victims goes through? Please clarify.

What made you feel that we don't have the heart and mind to be sympathetic to rape victims who have undergone torture in the hands of the rapists and the society?

On what basis you are concluding that no amount of reading or anything a man can do will make a man understand the trauma a women undergoes after "rape"? Do you think just because MEN belong to other category of species other than females MEN can not understand the physical and mental pains of a rape victim?

I understand your pains as one of the close members of the victim as much as I sympathize for the rape victim.

We are not here to discuss if we need to sympathize with rape victim or not. Neither we are here to blame women for the rape incidents. We know that MEN get into action to rape a women and we know that unless a woman wishes and agrees to sleep with a man it is a rape.


I am reminded of an incident during my college days. When we students were travelling in heavily crowded bus in Chennai, one guy from our college (but not from our set) some how squeezed himself through the crowd to reach near to a well build lady who was wearing a very tight, thin and transparent long skirt (closed fitted to the size/shape of her bums) such that her pantie was clearly visible, resting on her bums. This indecent guy got the impurity in his mind evoked on seeing her back, some how reached near her and pinched her bum terribly. She end up screaming out of pain but neither herself nor the others could find out as who did this nonsense, in the crowd. Later we guys could know his confession of the crime.

In 2005 when myself and my friends were coming out of a cinema theater after a movie show, and walking among the crowd, one labor class guy quickly put his left hand inside the absolutely low cut top of a big chested young girl, squeezed her boob and ran away.

I have cited the above two cases to help you draw your own conclusion as what we young and old gays are saying about the dressing sense of women for her own safety and dignity in a densely populated, poor and corrupted India, without getting a wrong impression about us from other people who are making wrong accusations on us.

We want women to be safe in India where law and order can not do much before the incident can happen. We neither are hating women nor we are unsympathetic towards women. We do have women in our family.

 

[palindrome]

You advice women to walk naked on Chennai Roads?
This argument is going nowhere.

All I am saying , Decent dress is also important for women.

No advising. Please do not jump to conclusions. My question is very straightforward, so please reply --
If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

 

[P.J.]

No advising. Please do not jump to conclusions. My question is very straightforward, so please reply --
If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

The question is not worth replying.

 

[palindrome]

The question is not worth replying.

So, why do YOU think dress is also important? Does it mean if you find a woman naked, you will rape her? So what's the answer -- yes ? no? maybe?

 

[prasad1]

No sir, its not unfair. So far 3 men have argued out all thru the thread (Ravi, PJ and Sangom sir). So, now i want to ask all 3 of them this question straight -- If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

It is none of my business to interject, but I assume and accept all are decent and upright people in this site.
I may agree with them or disagree with their POV, but have no doubt about them. I still think this question is loaded and should not be asked.

 

[palindrome]

It is none of my business to interject, but I assume and accept all are decent and upright people in this site.I may agree with them or disagree with their POV, but have no doubt about them. I still think this question is loaded and should not be asked.

I know they are decent. I also know what their answer will be. Which is why am asking the question. To make them understand the mind of a rapist is different from theirs. If Ravi, PJ, Sangom sir, cannot rape / molest / injure a woman under any circumstance, why does a rapist / a molester / a sadist do it???? In the process (of understanding the mind of a rapist), trying to bring home the point that attributing rape to clothes makes no sense.

 

[C RAVI]

Lets not talk about other people and reasons. My question is very simple -- If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

Palindrom,

You can ask this question to any MAN and any no. of MEN. No issues!! And you may chose to accept a honest answer from various personality or not to accept.

My question is, to how many men you can put this question and what you can achieve by asking this question?

Please understand, we are not talking about what is right or wrong on part of indecent men with impurity in mind. We are taking about how to safeguard our Women form a densely populated, poor and corrupted India? And we are advising women to take some responsibility considering the hungry men of our Nation so that a women would not only make a hungry man a rape criminal nor would make our women undergo physical and mental pains.

There is no dearth of hard core criminals, psychopaths, sick & derailed men in highly populated, poor and corrupted India. These people will indulge in raping females as young as 3 years of age to as old as 80. Will rape a BOY/MAN if couldn't get a lady at the moment he want sex. Will rape mentally retarded ladies, pregnant ladies, physically challenged ladies.

BUT, you should understand that many rapes are committed by many other men as well who don't have any criminal track records, who are not psychopath and who are not from a distorted and filthy family background. These men also commit rape due many many reasons that off course can not be justified.

It is always safe for ladies to avoid exposing herself as a sex object to these men. It is safe for them to dress modestly where it is a must and don't become a pray to these MEN who are hungry for sex. However you talk about errors on part of these filthy men and however you talk about women's right etc, you neither can help the nation from solving the rape issues nor you can help any women from becoming a rape victim. All you can do is to take care of yourself in all the ways and means if you are a woman and advice other women to be particular about choosing her dressing sense for a place she gonna be present. This would help them not only from getting raped/gang raped but it would help them from getting molested, harassed and embarrassed by men who are wandering around, each one of them having their own triggering factors

 

[P.J.]

No advising. Please do not jump to conclusions. My question is very straightforward, so please reply --
If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

Answer This please; do you advice women to walk naked on any Indian Roads? do not evade this. If you say. "No", then you also accept that Dress is also important.

 

[P.J.]

Palindrom,

You can ask this question to any MAN and any no. of MEN. No issues!! And you may chose to accept a honest answer from various personality or not to accept.

My question is, to how many men you can put this question and what you can achieve by asking this question?

Please understand, we are not talking about what is right or wrong on part of indecent men with impurity in mind. We are taking about how to safeguard our Women form a densely populated, poor and corrupted India? And we are advising women to take some responsibility considering the hungry men of our Nation so that a women would not only make a hungry man a rape criminal nor would make our women undergo physical and mental pains.

There is no dearth of hard core criminals, psychopaths, sick & derailed men in highly populated, poor and corrupted India. These people will indulge in raping females as young as 3 years of age to as old as 80. Will rape a BOY/MAN if couldn't get a lady at the moment he want sex. Will rape mentally retarded ladies, pregnant ladies, physically challenged ladies.

BUT, you should understand that many rapes are committed by many other men who don't have any criminal track records, who are not psychopath and who are not from a distorted and filthy family background. These men also commit rape due many many reasons that off course can not be justified.

It is always safe for ladies to avoid exposing herself as a sex object to these men. It is safe for them to dress modestly where it is a must and don't become a pray to these MEN who are hungry for sex. However you talk about errors on part of these filthy men and however you talk about women's right etc, you neither can help the nation from solving the rape issues nor you can help any women from becoming a rape victim. All you can do is to take care of yourself in all the ways and means if you are a women and advice other women to be particular about choosing her dressing sense for a place she gonna be present. This would help them not only from getting raped/gang raped but it would help them from getting molested, harassed and embarrassed by men who are wandering around, each one of them having their own triggering factors

Ravi Sir,

Well explained, Thanks.

 

[prasad1]

I know they are descent. I also know what their answer will be. Which is why am asking the question. To make them understand the mind of a rapist is different from theirs. If Ravi, PJ, Sangom sir, cannot rape / molest / injure a woman under any circumstance, why does a rapist / a molester / a sadist do it???? In the process (of understanding the mind of a rapist), trying to bring home the point that attributing rape to clothes makes no sense.

I have no argument with your POV, on the contrary I agree with you, but still the question bothers me.

 

[C RAVI]

So, why do YOU think dress is also important? Does it mean if you find a woman naked, you will rape her? So what's the answer -- yes ? no? maybe?

Some men rape a dead body of a lady as well!! And you are asking about a naked woman..LOL!!!

If descent men says that they would not rape a lady finding her nude, would it give you a take away message to home that sex and all the stimulation/actions involved in sex is only an act of a Mental?

LOL!!

 

[palindrome]

Answer This please; do you advice women to walk naked on any Indian Roads? do not evade this. If you say. "No", then you also accept that Dress is also important.

Yes, lets say I advice a woman to walk naked on an Indian Road, do YOU have a problem with it? Will you rape her? Kindly note, am not asking about what others will do, what other issues they may have. Am asking very simply -- If there is a naked woman on the road, will YOU rape her?

 

[palindrome]

I have no argument with your POV, on the contrary I agree with you, but still the question bothers me.

I request you to kindly allow me and PJ to carry on this conversation. Some people just do not get it, unless it is explained with themselves in that situation. Hence, this exercise with PJ.

 

[P.J.]

When we look at the dress of women of the past with long sleeves, skirts, etc, there was less violence against women. Today more of the body is exposed and the violence has increased.
This dress will not only protect her against rape but will assist those contemplating such acts to desist from this behaviour. The dress of females will ignite the flame of passion among men or extinguish this flame.

Modest dress would protect a woman against rape - Stabroek News - Georgetown, Guyana
Consider how you dress. Not how attractive you dress, but how hard it may be to get away should you be approached by an attacker, and how easy it is to remove the clothes. Long, thin skirts that make it hard to run make you vulnerable. Harder-to-remove clothes are the best. Overalls and one-piece jumpsuits and rompers (preferably with rear or side fasteners) are best; they are hard for someone else to remove forcefully. Avoid pants and skirts with elastic waists - these are easiest to remove. Slacks and skirts with the fastener at the rear or side are advantageous because these make it harder for an attacker to reach to unfasten these.

Belts are also great; they are an extra item an attacker must remove. A belt that has a complex fastener different from the traditional type is excellent; one that you understand how it works, but the attacker may not. Dresses and even tops with a zipper or one or more buttons in the back are to your advantage. These may be harder for you to don and remove, but a few extra minutes every morning and evening getting dressed and a little more stretching is priceless to prevent rape.

How to Prevent a Potential Rape: 25 Steps - wikiHow

Majority of Men are known to get excited seeing half naked women. Probably the reason why Arab countries have lower rape rates is because the women are covered up in those countries. However, one has to remember that it is the fundamental right of a woman to dress up the way she wants. She also has the right to say 'no to sex'. Forcing sex on a woman is a legal offense.

Types of Rape and Tips for Rape prevention

Sexual assault is never the victim’s fault; And plenty of assaulted women are not dressed sexily, including women draped in head-to-toe burqas.
But there is less chance for a decently dressed up women targeted for rape than scantily dressed up one.

 

[tbs]

hi

Originally Posted by palindrome

No advising. Please do not jump to conclusions. My question is very straightforward, so please reply --
If you find a woman naked, will you rape her?

my simple answer....yes.....any free show can use anybody...becoz its public property.....especially in india...even i heard that

a 5 yr gal was raped in delhi..............a 80 year old woman wad raped in tamil nadu....so the question is not the dress/age....

 

[palindrome]

When we look at the dress of women of the past with long sleeves, skirts, etc, there was less violence against women. Today more of the body is exposed and the violence has increased.
This dress will not only protect her against rape but will assist those contemplating such acts to desist from this behaviour. The dress of females will ignite the flame of passion among men or extinguish this flame.

Modest dress would protect a woman against rape - Stabroek News - Georgetown, Guyana
Consider how you dress. Not how attractive you dress, but how hard it may be to get away should you be approached by an attacker, and how easy it is to remove the clothes. Long, thin skirts that make it hard to run make you vulnerable. Harder-to-remove clothes are the best. Overalls and one-piece jumpsuits and rompers (preferably with rear or side fasteners) are best; they are hard for someone else to remove forcefully. Avoid pants and skirts with elastic waists - these are easiest to remove. Slacks and skirts with the fastener at the rear or side are advantageous because these make it harder for an attacker to reach to unfasten these.

Belts are also great; they are an extra item an attacker must remove. A belt that has a complex fastener different from the traditional type is excellent; one that you understand how it works, but the attacker may not. Dresses and even tops with a zipper or one or more buttons in the back are to your advantage. These may be harder for you to don and remove, but a few extra minutes every morning and evening getting dressed and a little more stretching is priceless to prevent rape.

How to Prevent a Potential Rape: 25 Steps - wikiHow

Majority of Men are known to get excited seeing half naked women. Probably the reason why Arab countries have lower rape rates is because the women are covered up in those countries. However, one has to remember that it is the fundamental right of a woman to dress up the way she wants. She also has the right to say 'no to sex'. Forcing sex on a woman is a legal offense.

Types of Rape and Tips for Rape prevention

Sexual assault is never the victim’s fault; And plenty of assaulted women are not dressed sexily, including women draped in head-to-toe burqas.
But there is less chance for a decently dressed up women targeted for rape than scantily dressed up one.

In this issue, there are studies one way or the other. Am not asking about others. Am asking YOU. What will YOU do if you found a naked woman? Will YOU rape her? If you cannot bring yourself to do it, then why justify it for a rapist by way of clothing (or any other point) ? Please, can you see the difference? If YOU cannot rape (under any circumstance), please can you understand the mind of a rapist?