is it possible to convert into a brahmin ?

[krish44]

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Brave girl..she did the right thing by walking away..cos why give up her identity and be adopted by maternal uncle when she has living parents to give her away?The boys parents should have never suggested that cos that is purely the girls decision to respect her parents and not be adopted by her maternal uncle.

So in such situations a girl can make out that the boys side seem dominant to have their way so she could have thought "if at the begining itself they can dictate terms..if anything goes wrong they will blame her and try to control her life..so better break off instead of suffering"

She did the right thing..the All or None Phenomenon..either follow tradition or dont..no need to twist and turn anything on technical grounds.

Giving up love and deciding not to marry cannot be term infatuation..sometimes we need to use logical reasoning.
There is no use just ruining our life for the sake of love cos we can always love again.

The problem is most people think love comes only once in our lives..love can even happen extra marital.

So there is always chance to love and love again.

Parents should move with times..at present day its better for parents to play the role of a wedding planner and just plan the wedding according to the desire of the bride and groom and attend the wedding like a VIP ..who comes for the wedding but does not get personal with the bride and groom.

renukaji
what do you think parents are?parents have to run an event management company to do what you suggest. and that is taking them for granted.VIP is the last thing they would be if they did what you suggest

it is utter crap.As per you girls can love and become suddenly logical if terms are not met and say no . Love again and again until all the girls terms are met by boys. wah .

i find your post very amusing

 

[krish44]

How can you have such people as your close friends? I think you downgrade yourself, apart from the whole community.

Such an action strongly proves Smarthas are generally lacking integrity and feel proud about encouraging such things for centuries hence. Whilst Iyengars have right to follow their customs, Iyers who encourage and feel proud about is rather surprising. This will speak very bad of Smartha community as a whole, which is spread throughout India.

At least from now onwards, please avoid encouraging people, at least for community's sake.

hi
chandru ji

if you like I can drink water along other delicacies and degree coffee to please all iyers on behalf of iyengars. by the way I am a thengalai iyengar from kumbakonam. will it make you happy?

krish

 

[Vaagmi]

student: Dear professor..isnt its shivoham and not sivoham?

Prof :shut up and say "narayana narayana"

student: Narayana narayana.

Suddenly there is a knock on the lecture hall door..2 dazzling looking beings were at the door.

Prof:who are you?


2 beings: Someone here called out narayana narayana.

Prof: So ??

2 beings :stupid prof..dont you know when someone calls narayana narayana...signals reach us vishnu dutas?


Prof: Jesus! So you both are real?

Vishnu dutas ::amen:

lol.

 

[prasad1]

[video=youtube;Pu8KFlfzk3Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu8KFlfzk3Y[/video]

I expressed my sentiments in my post#5

The original poster is a wimp, and destined for loony bin. A born looser can not succeed.

 

[krish44]

Going back to the OP,

Love marriages are very hard for parents to accept as each parent has their own dream of what their son or daughter's life should be like. This includes who they marry as in Indian culture, this has a major influence on the entire family. I have recently come to know of a boy and girl here in Sydney both tambrahms who wanted to get married but turned out their gothrams were the same. Boy's parents wanted girl to change her gothram by being adopted out to someone like her maternal uncle. The girl refused on the grounds that if both are of the same gothram why should I be the one to suffer by not having my parents giving me away. Either we follow the gothra system and not get married or if we reject the gothra system let us get married with my parents giving me away. Boys parents did not agree so she decided to walk away.

Moral of the story is whenever the boy and girl try love marriage a certain amount of resistance or barrier is created naturally or by circumstances to test their love. If both the boy and girl are willing to fight for their love, they will definitely get married. if not the love is just mere infatuation.

Vanaja

Ms vanaja mani
I think too much is being made of same gothra business. both boy and the girl should have first registered their marriage if they were in love and then told their parents to organise the wedding. both parents would have compromised and found a way out .
these days same gothra marriages are common.one of my close relations , a sibling has a same gothra arranged marriage.we did not raise a hue and cry about that . simply got her married without discussing the matter with boys side.
this was 35 years back
only in some northern states ,same gothra marriages in some villages are dealt with severely.
otherwise I think it is outdated and immature to break a relationship for such a silly reason. both the boy and girl and families were stupid to insist and lay down conditions related to gothra

 

[renuka]

renukaji
what do you think parents are?parents have to run an event management company to do what you suggest. and that is taking them for granted.VIP is the last thing they would be if they did what you suggest

it is utter crap.As per you girls can love and become suddenly logical if terms are not met and say no . Love again and again until all the girls terms are met by boys. wah .

i find your post very amusing

You see when my son grows up and if he wants to get married I will tell him and his bride.."you guys plan your wedding and just foot me the bill..there will be no interference on my side or any specific demand from me and I will attend your wedding"


You see I believe in freedom of the bride and groom to plan their own wedding without parents getting involved too much and trying to dictate terms..these days one can employ the service of wedding planners.Let the bride especially plan her wedding....most Hindu brides do not get this freedom .. ..so I will surely want my future DIL to have this freedom.


BTW why are you saying what I wrote is crap?LOL

You see at times have to go with our gut feelings.

So there is no use trying to adjust too much for others..life is like a jigsaw puzzle..we can only fit into a slot that is tailor made for us!LOL

I remember when I was getting married I went saree shopping with my would be husband and I bought a simple saree. In Msia among Non Brahmins..its the guy who pays for everything in a wedding including buying gold jewelery for the bride

When my MIL saw the saree at her home..she told my husband that she is going to buy a new one cos she finds it too simple.

I was "OMG! I am dead..what if she chooses a traditional saree..who wants to look like a Pattikatttu on my wedding day"

So I called her up and said "that simple saree I chose with your son..so it has sentiment..I am going to be his wife..so why waste his money buying costly sarees..after all what is in a saree..its sentiment that is more important..I set my heart on that simple saree cos your son and I bought it together"

She fell for that dialogue!

So you see with all this sentimental dialogue I managed to wear my simple personal choice saree for my wedding.


Its all technique yaar.If it works than its ok..if it does not work then have some other plan.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

Honorable members of this forum,

In my humble opinion, our ancestors/forefathers instituted the Gothra system with a genuine purpose. A boy and a girl belonging to the same gothra are like a brother and a sister. One would not marry one's own brother or sister. When a man and a woman marry, they beget children who in turn beget children and this goes on for many generations. During the course of this multiplication, over centuries we may lose contact with our relatives who become distant not only by relationship but also in space and time. Our forefathers have been farsighted indeed not to rule out the possibility of descendant of a common ancestor meeting each other not knowing they have a common ancestry. Lest they fall in romantic love and marry each other should they be a brother and sister, the gothra system was initiated so that one takes the precaution and does not marry one's own brother or sister.

Perhaps, when a boy and girl meet each other and when they are attracted to each other, before proposing to each other they ought to verify if they belong to the same gothra and after ascertaining that they belong to different gothras they may propose to each other. I think it is the responsibility of parents to educate their children about the Gothra system, its importance etc.

Some people may ask, is the Gothra system applicable to hindus alone? do not people of other religions take this precaution and not marry their siblings? do they have some system of identifying if the other person is of the same lineage? etc. As far as I know, the Jews have the system. They are divided into 12 gothras and they take this precaution. I dont know about other religions. In some religions marrying a parallel cousin is permitted. In some communities marrying one's half sister is permitted. Different communities have different rules.

I think hinduism is advanced regarding this matter.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

hi
chandru ji

if you like I can drink water along other delicacies and degree coffee to please all iyers on behalf of iyengars. by the way I am a thengalai iyengar from kumbakonam. will it make you happy?

krish

My point is people who are very orthodox should not be entertained and feel guilty afterwards. If Iyengars have specific customs, it is their business. It should not be encouraged by other communities.

Generally, I don't entertain people.

 

[prasad1]

Ms vanaja mani
I think too much is being made of same gothra business. both boy and the girl should have first registered their marriage if they were in love and then told their parents to organise the wedding. both parents would have compromised and found a way out .
these days same gothra marriages are common.one of my close relations , a sibling has a same gothra arranged marriage.we did not raise a hue and cry about that . simply got her married without discussing the matter with boys side.
this was 35 years back
only in some northern states ,same gothra marriages in some villages are dealt with severely.
otherwise I think it is outdated and immature to break a relationship for such a silly reason. both the boy and girl and families were stupid to insist and lay down conditions related to gothra

I second your post#119.
The boy is a wus (Combination of wimp and pussy.). And soft rejection by the girl is being misinterpreted as love.

Even if Gothra system was (mistakenly) instituted, so was child marriage so it can be changed.

 

[krish44]

You see when my son grows up and if he wants to get married I will tell him and his bride.."you guys plan your wedding and just foot me the bill..there will be no interference on my side or any specific demand from me and I will attend your wedding"


You see I believe in freedom of the bride and groom to plan their own wedding without parents getting involved too much and trying to dictate terms..these days one can employ the service of wedding planners.Let the bride especially plan her wedding....most Hindu brides do not get this freedom .. ..so I will surely want my future DIL to have this freedom.


BTW why are you saying what I wrote is crap?LOL

You see at times have to go with our gut feelings.

So there is no use trying to adjust too much for others..life is like a jigsaw puzzle..we can only fit into a slot that is tailor made for us!LOL

I remember when I was getting married I went saree shopping with my would be husband and I bought a simple saree. In Msia among Non Brahmins..its the guy who pays for everything in a wedding including buying gold jewelery for the bride

When my MIL saw the saree at her home..she told my husband that she is going to buy a new one cos she finds it too simple.

I was "OMG! I am dead..what if she chooses a traditional saree..who wants to look like a Pattikatttu on my wedding day"

So I called her up and said "that simple saree I chose with your son..so it has sentiment..I am going to be his wife..so why waste his money buying costly sarees..after all what is in a saree..its sentiment that is more important..I set my heart on that simple saree cos your son and I bought it together"

She fell for that dialogue!

So you see with all this sentimental dialogue I managed to wear my simple personal choice saree for my wedding.


Its all technique yaar.If it works than its ok..if it does not work then have some other plan.

I also have gut feeling. I know where I should not be during finalisation of wedding.

You know when my son wanted to marry a girl of his choice,some old person of the girl side raised a doubt whether parents of boy on board and whether girls parents have offered the girl formally to us . when girls parent rang me from chennai and I was in delhi, he rang up and wanted to formally offer his daughter and go 1500 km to meet me. I accepted the girl on telephone .lol

when I got trapped by girl and her mother and my wife on shopping expedition for sarees, I quietly vanished leaving my son and his prospective FIL sitting in saree shop.

similarly,when they started talking me to make me go for thaali buying expedition, i quietly roped in some of my traditional relatives to go with them to avoid arbitrating on the type of thaali as the girl was iyer and I am an iyengar. I flippantly told them that the girl is any way going to hang the thaali on the bedstand and hardly wear it on daily basis and it is like punool for boys.

that created a crisis. since my son did not have a thread to exhibit. the girl put my son in a spot saying she will marry only if my son will have a punool ceremony. I quietly told my son take a punool and wear it. Poor fellow, to be true to his religion and girl friend he went thru the ceremony with his uncles helping him.now after three years of marriage ,he has also thrown away his punool as wisdom dawned on him.I think he now worships me for simplifying his life.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

I second ..........Even if Gothra system was (mistakenly) instituted, so was child marriage so it can be changed.

Dear Prasad Sir,

You say the Gothra system was mistakenly instituted. I am not able to understand how it is a mistake sir. Please forgive me if I am wrong. But please explain sir. I think gothra system was instituted by our wise ancestors for others to know whose descendant we are. Don't you think so? We are all son or daughter of our Father and Mother. Could that be changed? Even if you are adopted by someone else, the fact that you were born of your natural Father does not change. For example if Mr X is your natural Father who begot you and if Mr Y adopts you as his son, Mr X still remains your natural Father and Mr Y cannot claim to be your natural Father. You carry the gene from Mr X and not from Mr Y. You cannot marry the daughter of Mr X although you are adopted as son by Mr Y. Could you? I think our ancestors have not committed a mistake by instituting the Gothra system sir.

 

[BRAHMACHARI]

You see when my son grows up and if he wants to get married I will tell him and his bride.."you guys plan your wedding and just foot me the bill..there will be no interference on my side or any specific demand from me and I will attend your wedding"


You see I believe in freedom of the bride and groom to plan their own wedding without parents getting involved too much and trying to dictate terms..these days one can employ the service of wedding planners.Let the bride especially plan her wedding....most Hindu brides do not get this freedom .. ..so I will surely want my future DIL to have this freedom.

.......

Dear Madam,

I fully appreciate your broadmindedness, broad-heartedness, ultra-modern thinking, liberal thinking etc etc. But madam, would you readily agree to your son's choice without inquiring the girl's character, conduct, personality etc? Would you not be concerned about her moral uprightness? Would you not ascertain that your would-be DIL is indeed capable of being your son's wife, that she is a match for him, that she would truly love him and be with him in all circumstances, good or bad? If you would, then it would certainly take some time to ascertain all this and take some efforts also. You will be required to make many enquiries, subject your would-be dil to some simple tests, not necessarily harrassing etc. don't you think so? Would you not make such simple queries about her family background, her place of origin, her likes and dislikes etc? And if you feel she needs to change in some way to adapt herself to fit into your family, would you not advise her accordingly? I think you would.

But I am sure, after ascertaining to yourself, after being satisfied that your son's choice is indeed right, then you would not interfere in their matters and would give them the freedom to be their selves.

 

[Raji Ram]

How can you have such people as your close friends? I think you downgrade yourself, apart from the whole community.

Such an action strongly proves Smarthas are generally lacking integrity and feel proud about encouraging such things for centuries hence. Whilst Iyengars have right to follow their customs, Iyers who encourage and feel proud about is rather surprising. This will speak very bad of Smartha community as a whole, which is spread throughout India.

At least from now onwards, please avoid encouraging people, at least for community's sake.

Dear Sir,

I don't consider my friend's attitude as offense at all and hence she continues to be my close friend. It is her wish to choose the

way she lives, right? If someone offers non.veg to me, I will certainly refuse to eat it how ever close that person might be!

I consider this as something similar! I don't complicate my life by paying attention to petty matters like this and increase my BP!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Krish Sir,

No one throws the poonool away because of wisdom!

It is the maintenance problem, I guess!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

You are so modern in your views and so why should you pay for your son's wedding? Some students who fall in love in the U S of A,

come over to India and share the wedding expenses, since they earn in $$$. I know two such couple who got married in Sing. Chennai! :thumb:

Parents were so during the wedding. There was also a note in the reception card 'No gifts please!'.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish Sir,

No one throws the poonool away because of wisdom!

It is the maintenance problem, I guess!

I do not know about maintenance of poonool madam , you might be correct . In all my lifetime I wore it for four or five events for a few hours and promptly threw it away. I never went thru a poonool ceremony.Also I was tutored what I have to do while undergoing my marriage ceremony . vaguely you have to catch your nose /nose and ear also sometimes.when instructed by vadhyars.ladies do not throw away their thaalis as there is some gold and sentiment attached to it. some hang it on hangers or bed stand to wear it for a few hours during day if required for events.only in films there is a lot of thaali sentiment though.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Honorable members of this forum,

In my humble opinion, our ancestors/forefathers instituted the Gothra system with a genuine purpose. A boy and a girl belonging to the same gothra are like a brother and a sister. One would not marry one's own brother or sister. When a man and a woman marry, they beget children who in turn beget children and this goes on for many generations. During the course of this multiplication, over centuries we may lose contact with our relatives who become distant not only by relationship but also in space and time. Our forefathers have been farsighted indeed not to rule out the possibility of descendant of a common ancestor meeting each other not knowing they have a common ancestry. Lest they fall in romantic love and marry each other should they be a brother and sister, the gothra system was initiated so that one takes the precaution and does not marry one's own brother or sister.

I think hinduism is advanced regarding this matter.

Some years back, one of the Sankaracharayas said it is not necessary to give importance to Gothra if a B's Gothra has passed seven generations. I don't know the correctness of such statement.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Sir,

I don't consider my friend's attitude as offense at all and hence she continues to be my close friend. It is her wish to choose the

way she lives, right? If someone offers non.veg to me, I will certainly refuse to eat it how ever close that person might be!

I consider this as something similar! I don't complicate my life by paying attention to petty matters like this and increase my BP!

Dear Madam,

It is not the question of increase or decrease in BP or Chloestrol. It is the question of integrity. Your friend's attitude indirectly conveys the message that you are inferior to her. I don't mean that you should not be cordial. Having cordial relationship is one thing; retaining integrity, prestige and religious discipline is another thing.

Will you allow your NV friends, if any, to sit with you for lunch and dinner regularly?

During my early days of employment in a PSU, my first boss was a hardcore Christian (belonged to Protestant Sect). He would not go to even Catholic Church. Despite this, I enjoyed lot of respect from him, because he knows that I am also serious about my religion like him.

 

[tks]

Dear RR ji,

Aiyooo! as it is I am being "accused" of being Anti Iyengar..now with this IIT joke you too might be accused of being anti iyengar!LOL

You as a person were never accused as being anti-Iyengar -- I only called attention to specific set of comments which you say I mis-understood. Since you did not offer any more explanation I can drop that part of discussion and leave those comments as is.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad Sir,

You say the Gothra system was mistakenly instituted. I am not able to understand how it is a mistake sir. Please forgive me if I am wrong. But please explain sir. I think gothra system was instituted by our wise ancestors for others to know whose descendant we are. Don't you think so? We are all son or daughter of our Father and Mother. Could that be changed? Even if you are adopted by someone else, the fact that you were born of your natural Father does not change. For example if Mr X is your natural Father who begot you and if Mr Y adopts you as his son, Mr X still remains your natural Father and Mr Y cannot claim to be your natural Father. You carry the gene from Mr X and not from Mr Y. You cannot marry the daughter of Mr X although you are adopted as son by Mr Y. Could you? I think our ancestors have not committed a mistake by instituting the Gothra system sir.

Sir this topic has been hashed and rehashed in this site so many times.

According to the brahminical theory, the Brahmins are the direct descendants of seven sages who are believed to be the mind-born sons of Brahma. They are Gautama, Bharadvaja, Vishvamitra, Jamadagni, Vashista, Kashyapa and Atri.
So if only those gothras existed then at least you have some claim. But we have 48 gotherams, and to boot we have gothram for Brahmins, Shatriyas, and Vaisyas. If you can prove a genetic link between the present day people of same gothra people with one of these rishies you may have a claim, non exists to my knowledge.
Gotheram word is derived from Goshala. These rishies used to keep goshlas and may be our forefathers attended it. Just like people who go Harvard or Princeton, and are alumni of that place.

If I belong to Kasyapu gothra, and a Rajput is Bihar also belong to that Gothra, or a Vaisya from Gujarat belongs to the same gothra, you can not say that there is one common ancestry.

For example, Jatts in Northern India have 2500 Gotras, Gujjars in Uttar pradesh have 3000 Gotras and Mudirajas of Andhra Pradesh & Tamil Nadu have 2600 Gotras. Gotra is always passed on from father to children among most Hindus. However, among Malayalis and Tulus it is passed on from mother to children.

 

[tks]

My answers in blue:

If I have misunderstood by all means I am open to listen to you and be corrected.


Thank you..time is the best Guru!LOL

Who is fascinating or who is good looking is actually not relevant here. Besides Sri Nara, if he is here to join the debate, will not like to be characterized as an Iyengar.

Its very important for me..who is fascinating and who is good looking
>>>tks - Perhaps so, but not relevant to the question about generalization of stereotype prejudices

A definition of putting down could be taking negative attributes exhibited by some followers of a tradition and associating that in a general sense with all people that are the followers of the tradition. How many Vadakalai and Thenkalai followers do you really know? I have known people who have married across the Kalai traditions and there had been no issues. Why bring up how they put their Namam in the description which has the potential to come across as derogatory & put down?

Nope..I did not put down any Kalai here.. that is why I said "you misunderstood my post

>>> If you say so .. You dont have to offer more explanation if you dont want to but I hope you can at least see how the statement you made could come across as deragatory

In my experience those that are from Iyengar families act no differently when it comes to human emotions - good or bad- than any other people.

So I have few questions. I have seen you generalize comments about Hinduism sometime in a negative sense due to the fact that large number of people calling themselves Hindus have a problem called caste. I can resonate with that except I am not ready to generalize this to all people calling themselves Hindus. I can say based on what I know is that the Varna system (which is not caste) came out of broadminded thinking and not narrow minded world view. One of the persons who actually explained this well was Gandhi himself though many who do not understand the point will denigrate him and everyone else who says that.

Putting down others using caste is something that most people here in this forum will not support. But our actions and what we write are driven by our beliefs as well. With that as a back drop I want to ask you a few questions.

1. Do you really see people in terms of their caste? Since I know you as someone who is very honest and truthful to yourself, please think and let me know only if you feel like sharing that in this open forum.

Ok I will be point blank...I never look at anyone thru the lenses of anything.I am a very private person in real life who does not like mixing around..even yesterday I attended a medical meeting and I did not speak to anyone cos I didnt feel like it

>>>tks > Well, my question was not the action as much as what you notice. Until I came to participate in this forum I rarely came across people in real life who noticed someone's caste right away. Here there are a few even while voicing progressive notes are the first to categorize people in terms of caste. When someone makes a category in their mind there are built in prejudices that surface because with the name of the caste title comes qualifications that cover up what a person is about in the mind.


2. Are you bothered if someone really does not care to hold rules of caste in high esteem and claim that our scriptures (sruthi not smrithi) does not support birth based superiority of anyone

For me..nothing bothers me as long others dont bother me.


3. Do you think that most people hold onto their caste regardless of what caste they belong to?

I dont know everyone to give an answer but I do know people out here(Non Brahmins) who hold on to their caste like how an underwear hugs the body

>>>tks> Indeed. This caste based identity is so strong many just hold onto it until their death. This is true seemingly for all castes including those calling themselves Brahmin by birth. Sometimes I get the feeling only in this forum that all caste issues are propagated by Brahmins when in reality it is an issue of Indian (not just Hindu) society. Sruthi does not support any put down in a general sense nor does it state entitlement based on birth for anyone. In fact the whole discussion about Samasrayanam is about accepting someone by a teacher regardless of their background if the applying student is qualified (to become a proper devotee of Maha Vishnu). Caste issues does not have anything to with Hindusim - it exists among Muslims and Christians in India. The only reason I am making this point is because I may have incorrectly understood you to be negative on Hinduism only due to its 'support' of caste heirarchy and discrimination.

4. Do you think that there are large number of Non Brahmins of various castes who will not want any alliance with Brahmins notwithstanding any hierarchy.

Yes and No...I know many of my college friends who did not get married cos it was the Non Brahmin family who wanted their own caste cos they would lose dowry and lineage will be mixed.
I have seen many cases like that.

But many NB families too are open minded and I have full 100% Tamil cousins who have married North Indian Brahmin girls..so it all depends on the family.

Amen

5. Do you agree that there is no central controlling authority to authenticate someone's caste other than what Government of India is doing which only maintains information but does not provide authentication.

here in Malaysia caste is not in our constitution..so the certification of "True Certified Caste' of anyone does not arise.

>>>tks> No where in the world such an authority exists. No one can make someone initiated into a caste of their choice or deny them what they want to become. This means anyone can 'fake it and make it'. If someone really wants to become a Brahmin, all they have to do is go far away, act like one, change their name, get the best of what Brahmin is supposed to do. In due course of time, 50% people will accept the person. In the next couple of generations they will be fully accepted.

There are American , European and South American Sannyasi's I know who are highly educated and very knowledgeable about the teachings of Upanishad. Many Indians / Brahmins freely do Namaskaram to these people because they stop seeing their skin color and are able to relate to them for what they stand for . The choice exists for anyone to become a 'Brahmin' but it is another question why anyone may want to. This is one of the point made well by Sri Vaagmi in my understanding. By the way I know Sannyasis who prior to initiation were one of the SC ranks. They are treated no different in my limited experience by people who respect knowledge.

I am saying this because I have on a rare occasion come across a proud and self proclaimed NB who was angry at a priest for putting Poonal on a small Vigraham of Sri Ganesha. This fellow told me he is deeply offended that caste system means he can never be a Brahmin and he does not want any image of God to be thought of as a Brahmin. He went into a tirade. He was the equivalent of those militant feminist that want to put down men because men are endowed with a different organ (which they wish they had).

Perhaps with new sex change opportunities they can become men. Similarly any NB if they ever want to become Brahmin could do so in my view. I think it will be foolish to do this since they are fine the way they are if only they stop looking at themselves and others with caste conscious lens.

6. Do you agree if groups of people in any nation at any point in time (historically or now) have always have had differences, with some asserting superior sense to others (sometimes the groups may feel that way mutually)? If so, do you see caste related discrimination is far worse? If so why?

Any form of discrimination of bad..caste is just one of them..the pairs of opposite is a human trait..so even if there was no caste we humans will find some other way to divide ourselves!
Humans are not wired for peace..we are wired to divide and fight and die!LOL

>>>tks>Amen

Let me stop here and I will listen to understand what your point is.

I know you really cared for the poster of the OP and wanted to let him know to stop wasting time chasing after something that is like a mirage. It was only that part that motivated you to respond. However please read what you wrote about Iyengars and see if there is any part that was indeed hitting a group below the belt as Sri Vaagmi alluded to independent of my reaction.


I dont have any personal reason to be extra nice to any member here ...I am just my honest self as usual..even if it was you who wants to marry some chick or have a side kick I would give you advise if you asked me!LOL

I already mentioned that I dont hit below the belt cos it at times can be fatal for males.

>>>tks> OK

 

[prasad1]

Just going back to the op question.
Yes I know when you go to Hare Krishna Society, and convert to that movement, they provide with the Poonal and Gotra. I suppose then you can claim that you are a brahmin. I do not know how many Born Brahmins will accept you as one of them.
Gothra is not exactly a family-based lineage, but rather refers to many lineages emerging from the same village. In the olden days of the rishis or seers, people of many castes and communities would place themselves under the tutelage of a teacher or set of teachers, who would instruct each family on the portions of the Vedas that applied to their specific interests in terms of career, vocational skills, marriage, spirituality, and so on. The village would be named after the leading rishi, and the people belonging to that village would take upon that Rishi's name as a means of identifying themselves when they travelled. Many of the descendants of these original peoples have held onto this 'gothra' out of sentiment and tradition.


People not knowing their gothra, or those outside of this system such as Westerners, will generally refer to themselves as belonging to Vishnu gothra, since Vishnu, the All-pervading spirit of the Universe, rests in the heart of all beings, and as a result belongs to all Gothras.


After a woman marries, she automatically takes on the Gothra of the husband. It is not possible to find your GOTRA as this practice is prevalant only to Hindus. If however you want or someone is not aware of his/her gotra, he/she can adopt to some gotra and it will be followed by their offspings.

 

[renuka]

I am saying this because I have on a rare occasion come across a proud and self proclaimed NB who was angry at a priest for putting Poonal on a small Vigraham of Sri Ganesha. This fellow told me he is deeply offended that caste system means he can never be a Brahmin and he does not want any image of God to be thought of as a Brahmin. He went into a tirade. He was the equivalent of those militant feminist that want to put down men because men are endowed with a different organ (which they wish they had).

Perhaps with new sex change opportunities they can become men. Similarly any NB if they ever want to become Brahmin could do so in my view. I think it will be foolish to do this since they are fine the way they are if only they stop looking at themselves and others with caste conscious lens.

Dear TKS ji,

This is one more point I have noted that many TBs think that NBs have TB envy..that is that deep inside a NB secretly desires just like how you mentioned that a feminist might be suffering from Penis Envy(Orthodox minded members please note that the word Penis Envy is an accepted psychological term..its not obscene)

Let me share with you about this fact.

May be in India people maintain their caste identities and make it known..but out here where I grew up I did not even know about caste till I was some 17 years old when some classmate asked me what is my caste...I had no idea and went home and asked my parents.

I also did not know about the existence of a community called TBs cos I thought that everyone from TN is a Tamilian.We did not go to temple as kids till late teens cos my father did not believe in idol worship so our exposure to the existence of TBs were very limited.

So tell me how can a NB especially like me have any form of TB envy when I did not even know a TB existed?
We were not taught about caste at home..I only knew that dad is Tamilian and mum is Punjabi..thats all.
Caste was never spoken about.

When I went to India that is when I was exposed to TBs and that was the very 1st time I knew that TBs viewed themselves as different from other Tamilians..a TB Iyengar friend told me she has German Aryan roots and not a Dravidian..that did not change my perception of her cos I felt she was entitled to believe what she wanted to belief..she was a real close friend and her parents too were very nice.

Now coming to all these envy etc..envy/jealousy is a very negative emotion which leaves a very bad effect on the human mind.

So I see no valid reason why a NB should envy a TB or anyone for that matter.

Its like how some people think that its blondes that have all the fun and brunettes dont.
Some blond must have made that up!LOL

Each human is born with what our Karma had dictated..what is there is envy anyone?

Many a times when we ask people what would you like to change and some will say they wish they were prettier..richer..sexier..thinner ..more intelligent etc."

If you ask me what I would like to change in myself..my answer is NOTHING.I love the way I am..I am unique..no one can be like me (not to brag..but I am very happy whenever I look at myself in the mirror!LOL)

so TKS ji..do you really think any right thinking human will envy anyone else?

To really make anyone envious a person needs to have good looks,brains,height, a good body,brains, a personality and a good position in life..only then a slight envy can actually exists.

Most people who envy others are lacking something in themselves..may be they are not perfect 10s and need to feel jealous of others.

BTW some of us female humans will admire a strapping 6 feet 2, Greek God looking guy who is intelligent, well built,strong and sexy. These types are seldom found anyway in most communities..so what is there to envy anyone?

I really wonder why you think NBs have TB envy? Give me one valid reason.

 

[vgane]

I have received a post in my mail box by the person who started OP ...May be it is still under review..

 

[vgane]

When I went to India that is when I was exposed to TBs and that was the very 1st time I knew that TBs viewed themselves as different from other Tamilians..a TB Iyengar friend told me she has German Aryan roots and not a Dravidian..that did not change my perception of her cos I felt she was entitled to believe what she wanted to belief..she was a real close friend and her parents too were very nice.

Aryan Dravidian theory is plain hogwash..The poison was spread by the British to spread their Colonial tentacles, which was lapped up by the local NB populace and the TB started to believe that they are superior...The TB tried to justify the vilification in their own minds by their own little imagination that after all they are different & that is why they are being denigrated and defamed..On the other hand if you look at the Sangam literature which is more than 2000 years old, TB had a role & they played that role, that is it..There is no question of any superiority or inferiority