is it possible to convert into a brahmin ?

[kailash krishnan]

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omg....i love you...just love you!!....i saw that post earlier n was cursing him...the moment i say you quote him i thought you wer gonna say the same thing with a few other words.....
n woah.....now that was awesome.....
and...she actually would'not mind my practices...she doesnot really care about the cast n crap....infact she asd me if i'd take her some wer far off and marry her.....coz she did not want me going thought all this for her..she was willing to let go of her happiness and her love coz atleast then i would leave n wudn have to go throught all of this...
n to me it the least i can do...i would do anything n everything that takes to get her....n this would just not hurt me a bit !!...and actually i like Akkara Adisil, Puliseri, saattumathu and nekizh karamathu etc...haha even the way they've names it xD
hmm...but the problem is not with 'am i vaidhnavite or not' ...it's about am i an iyengar or not....i shud be a brahmin..not only a vaidhnavite :/ ....
n thanks a looot....

 

[kailash krishnan]

now that is quiet a good question....
im sure im a very well qualified person to undergo anything....im sincere n and completely dedicated !!
but...lets see...

 

[kailash krishnan]

i like this approach !! xD

 

[kailash krishnan]

hahaha....ayioooo ...why paa??....
it's true...but im quiet sure i wont blame her for not converting....i guess my love is way to much for it to be in anyway interrupted by such smaaal issues like the 'cast' n the 'traditions' ....

 

[kailash krishnan]

haha...absolutely absolutely!!....but i cant assure you that...because i not really sure if i still have my heart !!...it's with her....
but the thing is that...my minds actually id not opposing it completely....but a little bit...n it is no match to the size my heart's grown to with the intense love

 

[kailash krishnan]

rofl xD....now that was amazing...quiet entertaining xD ....

 

[kailash krishnan]

idho vandhutteeee...

 

[kailash krishnan]

*ahem* .....

 

[renuka]

Doctor Mam,

One cannot always abide by one’s mind’s decision. He has a heart too with romantic feelings which are strong!!!. Some fall prey to heart’s desire and thus fell in love, leave alone the results which can always be handled nicely using the grey matter.

If everyone started to act as per what his/her mind says, they won’t fell in love and we would not have read about, Laila & Majnu, Romeo & Juliet and Ambigabathi and Amaravathi !!!

Hope the thread opener has acted as per his heart’s desire and feelings. ( May be a bait O.P. too as pointed out by few)

The thread opener who is silent, will have to confirm this? Will he????

Dear Sir,

This is where a female differs from a male...for a female the mind can over rule the heart so Lovvu can be programmed to be either for the keeps or for time pass.

Laila Majnu,Romeo Juliet,Ambikavathi Amravathi is not really love..cos true love will not end in death or insanity.

BTW successful love need not end in marriage...marriage and love at times are totally not related.

 

[renuka]

I think Sri Vaagmi has answered what it means to convert in post #65 to any caste (expanding his thought to any caste). We do not have a central authority for any practice among Hindus. There is no one to issue certificate or take that away.

There is no need to pick on sub-section of any group. Human beings have created in the past, continue to create and will always create new divisions. Behavior of people, especially immature acts by those who claim to practice the traditions of any group cannot be used to apply broad based castigation on the whole theology. Swami Vivekananda in one of his address has made this point extremely well. I am unable to cite the specific lecture.

There are well thought out doctrinal differences between Vada Kalai and Then Kalai followers. As an outsider I have deep respect to the thought that has gone behind those differences.

I think discussion about theology and doctrines are fair game but not about people who 'belong' to any section and I am certainly against any generalizations because they tend to be not arising out of broad mind.

Dear TKS ji,

Philosophy can claim anything but we have to get real here.

Even if conversion is allowed..a Non Brahmin will NEVER be considered a Brahmin cos caste is determined by birth.

Same way can a Brahmin be converted to another caste..for example a Kshatriya? Not possible right?

So instead of giving the OP false hope ..I was just being realistic and letting him know that when a Vadakalai and Thenkalai wont marry each other so he needs to realize that for life long he would be considered an outsider based on caste.

So he needs to know this fact and make a decision to move on with life..cos a few weeks of a broken heart is better than life long discrimination.

Life is short yaar...there are so many women in the world to choose from..so if this didnt work out he can start thinking of getting another girl for marriage.

 

[Vaagmi]

I think Sri Vaagmi has answered what it means to convert in post #65 to any caste (expanding his thought to any caste). We do not have a central authority for any practice among Hindus. There is no one to issue certificate or take that away.

There is no need to pick on sub-section of any group. Human beings have created in the past, continue to create and will always create new divisions. Behavior of people, especially immature acts by those who claim to practice the traditions of any group cannot be used to apply broad based castigation on the whole theology. Swami Vivekananda in one of his address has made this point extremely well. I am unable to cite the specific lecture.

There are well thought out doctrinal differences between Vada Kalai and Then Kalai followers. As an outsider I have deep respect to the thought that has gone behind those differences.

I think discussion about theology and doctrines are fair game but not about people who 'belong' to any section and I am certainly against any generalizations because they tend to be not arising out of broad mind.

You said it. Did you notice the childish harping on a certain newly found "Iyengarism"? When you want to hit below the belt there is no better way in India than to hit you with your caste. I think Malaysia has been affected by this contagion too. LOL.

 

[renuka]

You said it. Did you notice the childish harping on a certain newly found "Iyengarism"? When you want to hit below the belt there is no better way in India than to hit you with your caste. I think Malaysia has been affected by this contagion too. LOL.

Read my post #74.


The OP was talking about caste..so my answer is caste based..what is wrong with that?

I have been using the word Iyengarism for a long time in Forum cos an ISM is a school of thought isnt it?


So I was not targeting any one specific caste here...BTW I dont hit below belt cos it can be fatal for males!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear TKS ji,

Philosophy can claim anything but we have to get real here.

Even if conversion is allowed..a Non Brahmin will NEVER be considered a Brahmin cos caste is determined by birth.

Same way can a Brahmin be converted to another caste..for example a Kshatriya? Not possible right?

So instead of giving the OP false hope ..I was just being realistic and letting him know that when a Vadakalai and Thenkalai wont marry each other so he needs to realize that for life long he would be considered an outsider based on caste.

So he needs to know this fact and make a decision to move on with life..cos a few weeks of a broken heart is better than life long discrimination.

Life is short yaar...there are so many women in the world to choose from..so if this didnt work out he can start thinking of getting another girl for marriage.

If you want to get real read post #165 once again. The reality is that any one from any caste can can become any other caste because it has been happening here for the last several centuries. There is no one to allow or disallow conversion. In fact the word conversion is itself out of place in India when you speak of castes. You never have to tell any one which caste you belong to. But the system is such that you have to reveal it to claim freebies from the Government. Otherwise you belong to the caste you claim. That is the end of it. Vadakalai and Thenkalai having differences is a different matter and you do not know that. Tks has already touched on that point. Your information on Vaishnavam is pathetically deficient. A brahmin will become a kshatriya the day he claims to be that and no one else know that he is a brahmin to start with. There are no outwardly signs to distinguish like a horn or a tail. If I claim today that I am a kshatriya I become a kshatriya. It is for the world to prove that I am not. The OP gentleman will not face any discrimination if he claims that he is a brahmin from some timbactoo agraharam in the Tambraparani Basin in Tirunelveli District some where near Tenkasi. He has only to take care that the timbactoo village was really existing and the agraharam there is abandoned today. He can happily marry this girl and live happily ever after.

Life is short no doubt and there are any number of girls in the world but all those girls will not be this girl for this infatuated young man. That is precisely the reason why so much of bits and bytes have been spent on this topic.

 

[prasad1]

Dear TKS ji,

Philosophy can claim anything but we have to get real here.

Even if conversion is allowed..a Non Brahmin will NEVER be considered a Brahmin cos caste is determined by birth.

Same way can a Brahmin be converted to another caste..for example a Kshatriya? Not possible right?

So instead of giving the OP false hope ..I was just being realistic and letting him know that when a Vadakalai and Thenkalai wont marry each other so he needs to realize that for life long he would be considered an outsider based on caste.

So he needs to know this fact and make a decision to move on with life..cos a few weeks of a broken heart is better than life long discrimination.

Life is short yaar...there are so many women in the world to choose from..so if this didnt work out he can start thinking of getting another girl for marriage.

I agree with you on the most of what you say.
If you think your love (what ever that means) is so great, then there should be no obstacle is too big to achieving it. Life is full of compromise, it depends on what is more important. I am no love guru to advice, but like I said in my earlier post depends on how much of sacrifice you are willing to accept.

Your advice was honest and that is the best policy. Stating false background or any other falsehood is definite disaster in the making. The brahmin community is so well knit that people can trace back ancestry to 10 generations back.

 

[Vaagmi]

Read my post #74.


The OP was talking about caste..so my answer is caste based..what is wrong with that?

I have been using the word Iyengarism for a long time in Forum cos an ISM is a school of thought isnt it?


So I was not targeting any one specific caste here...BTW I dont hit below belt cos it can be fatal for males!LOL

Please define Iyengarism. There is no school of thought called Iyengarism that I know of. Please elaborate. Thanks. We Iyengars wear protective gear while dealing with those who hit below the belt. LOL.

 

[renuka]

Life is short no doubt and there are any number of girls in the world but all those girls will not be this girl for this infatuated young man. That is precisely the reason why so much of bits and bytes have been spent on this topic.

I know this but at least we must not give a person false hope when all of us clearly know that unless the girls parents are open minded nothing is going to work.

Sometimes the truth taste bitter but its better to taste the bitter truth instead of having a Meeta- Bish that tastes sweet yet kills you.

 

[renuka]

Please define Iyengarism. There is no school of thought called Iyengarism that I know of. Please elaborate. Thanks. We Iyengars wear protective gear while dealing with those who hit below the belt. LOL.

An ISM is a school of thought.

Iyengarism can be divided into :

1)Vadakalaism

2)Thenkalaism


BTW I always thought a Varma is worn on the chest!LOL

 

[Vaagmi]

An ISM is a school of thought.

Iyengarism can be divided into :

1)Vadakalaism

2)Thenkalaism


BTW I always thought a Varma is worn on the chest!LOL

1)Please throw more light on just Iyengarism. Then we will take up vadakalaism and Thenkalaism if they exist.

2)Is it varma or varna? If it is varna, like many other things carefully hidden the varna is also hidden under clothes. But then is it so difficult to get one and wear it if a kshatriya wants it or a dalit wants it? Chest is an anatomical part commonly found in all human beings. Any one can wear any varna on his chest if he wants it. So your belief is again deficient and colored. LOL.

 

[tks]

Dear TKS ji,

Philosophy can claim anything but we have to get real here.

Even if conversion is allowed..a Non Brahmin will NEVER be considered a Brahmin cos caste is determined by birth.

Same way can a Brahmin be converted to another caste..for example a Kshatriya? Not possible right?

So instead of giving the OP false hope ..I was just being realistic and letting him know that when a Vadakalai and Thenkalai wont marry each other so he needs to realize that for life long he would be considered an outsider based on caste.

So he needs to know this fact and make a decision to move on with life..cos a few weeks of a broken heart is better than life long discrimination.

Life is short yaar...there are so many women in the world to choose from..so if this didnt work out he can start thinking of getting another girl for marriage.

Dr Renu

You are totally sold on the ideas of caste .. so it is very strong and there is no way anyone can say anything that can change those beliefs.

Regardless let me say a few things and even repeat a point.

First of all there is no central controlling authority for any caste. This is not a philosophy.

Concept of conversion is an alien concept for Hindus as a way of life. But if one wants to adopt other practices all they have to do is just act.

There are many birth based brahmin that served in military which is a role for Kshatriyas.

In USA I have known many Hindu Iyer and Iyengar families (and very orthodox in their practices) who have fully accepted son in laws and daughter in laws who in some instances are not even Indians.

These people are received in gatherings with full respect accorded to anyone else. Many of these people out of own initiative are following Iyer or Iyengar way of life. In one instance, the daughter in law ensured that her husband (born in USA but Indian parents) start doing daily Sandhyavandanam. They have two kids and are raised with full exposure to Brahmin traditions.

So I know many brahmins by birth who have fully embraced relations by marriage without giving up their own traditions in anyway.

Now coming to the OP - you and I or anyone are not positioned or qualified to give hope to anyone or remove hope for anyone. This is an open forum and the question was simply if it was possible to adopt Iyengar way of life

Sri auh had a specific response, and Sri Vaagmi had another. They are as helpful or harmful as any other suggestion.

You have advised to move on, that is fine .. I think in the process you have come across with statements that are sort of putting down the Iyengar and their ism whatever that is. I am only objecting to that generalization.

I am not an Iyengar and hence I am more reticent to critique something I do not know about it first hand. I can comment only about theology if I have good reference to go by.

 

[renuka]

I think in the process you have come across with statements that are sort of putting down the Iyengar and their ism whatever that is. I am only objecting to that generalization.

.

I think you have purely misunderstood my posts...sometimes when one reads thru very fast the 1st impression of a post might not be the real message that is wanted to be conveyed.

I think in the past when we both discussed about Geeta shlokas you did mention that I misunderstood some posts mainly becos I lack a Guru.

I thought over what you said and I felt that you made sense..so same way here you might need sometime to understand my post..I am patient and willing to help out if you have any difficulty in understanding my posts.

Its just that you havent been specific enough for me to guide and respond to you.

So till full understanding of my posts is achieved by you...I feel its premature to label my posts and being putting down Iyengars.

Why would I want to be anti Iyengar?

The most fascinating Iyengar in Forum is Vaagmi Ji and the best looking Iyengar(who left forum) is Nara ji..so when we have hot and happening Iyengars do you really think that I am putting down Iyengars?

No way yaar.

 

[renuka]

Answers in blue:

1)Please throw more light on just Iyengarism. Then we will take up vadakalaism and Thenkalaism if they exist.

It can be summarized as Lord Vishnu is God and Ramanuja is His prophet.




2)Is it varma or varna? If it is varna, like many other things carefully hidden the varna is also hidden under clothes. But then is it so difficult to get one and wear it if a kshatriya wants it or a dalit wants it? Chest is an anatomical part commonly found in all human beings. Any one can wear any varna on his chest if he wants it. So your belief is again deficient and colored. LOL.


VARMA yaar..an armour.

 

[auh]

...So instead of giving the OP false hope ..I was just being realistic and letting him know that when a Vadakalai and Thenkalai wont marry each other so he needs to realize that for life long he would be considered an outsider based on caste.

So he needs to know this fact and make a decision to move on with life..cos a few weeks of a broken heart is better than life long discrimination.

Life is short yaar...there are so many women in the world to choose from..so if this didnt work out he can start thinking of getting another girl for marriage.

Life is full of diversity. One opinion or solution may not suit another. We can only give choices; the decision and its consequences are of that of the individual.

 

[Vaagmi]

Renuka's post #85:

1)Please throw more light on just Iyengarism. Then we will take up vadakalaism and Thenkalaism if they exist.

It can be summarized as Lord Vishnu is God and Ramanuja is His prophet.

1)What you have mentioned is Vaishnavam a branch of Hinduism and not Iyengarism. Vaishnavam is the religion and philosophy of 1) Iyengars 2) Naidus 3)Naickers 4)Rajus 5)Konars or Yadavas 6) a significant number of Gounders in Coimbatore, Erode and Tirupur districts of Tamilnadu and many Reddys in Andhra. So Iyengars are not the sole proprietors of Vaishnavam. Hence your claiming vaishnavam to be Iyengarism is flawed. Please try to learn more about Vaishnavam as a religious philosophy and religion and then come to argue on finer points. There is a graduate course in Vaishnavism conducted by Madras University by distance Education and by Sastra University Thanjavur. You can join any of these and that may help you get an insight which will be helpful.

2)In northern and western India too there is vaishnavam accepted as a religion by a large number of people. Thus we have Mahatma Gandhi who was himself a born vaishnav popularising Narsi Mehta's "vaishnava janato......" during India's independence struggle. Gujarat's Swaminarain Sect is a vaishnav group and Swami Narayan the founder was a disciple of Srimad Ramanuja.

3)In East India-Bengal and Orissa-vaishnavam is one of the predominant faction of Hinduism. The Goswamis, Pattanaiks and Pathys of East India are generally vaishnavs.

4)All over India there are any number of followers of Nimbarka,Madhva, Vallabha and Chaitanya and they are all vaishnavs for whom God is Vishnu and they are not Iyengars.

5)Out of the 12 Alwars many were not even brahmins but they were all vaishnavs.

Please try to understand vaishnavam and you will have many pleasant surprises.

 

[renuka]

Please try to understand vaishnavam and you will have many pleasant surprises.

:hail: :amen:

 

[Vaagmi]

:hail: :amen:

The last bench student: Sir I have a doubt.

The professor: Yes please?

The student: Sir what language is Amen and what does it mean sir?

Professor: It is an affirmative in Latin.

The student: When it comes with a smilie what does it mean sir?

The professor: Stupid don't you know, it means sivoham sivoham and sivoham.

The student: Sivoham Sivoham sivoham.