is it possible to convert into a brahmin ?

[renuka]

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The last bench student: Sir I have a doubt.

The professor: Yes please?

The student: Sir what language is Amen and what does it mean sir?

Professor: It is an affirmative in Latin.

The student: When it comes with a smilie what does it mean sir?

The professor: Stupid don't you know, it means sivoham sivoham and sivoham.

The student: Sivoham Sivoham sivoham.

Student: Dear Professor..isnt its Shivoham and not Sivoham?

Prof :Shut up and say "Narayana Narayana"

Student: Narayana Narayana.

Suddenly there is a knock on the lecture hall door..2 dazzling looking beings were at the door.

Prof:Who are you?


2 beings: Someone here called out Narayana Narayana.

Prof: So ??

2 beings :Stupid Prof..dont you know when someone calls Narayana Narayana...signals reach us Vishnu Dutas?


Prof: Jesus! So you both are real?

Vishnu Dutas :

 

[KRN]

I am surprised by most of the replies above... many of them bordering on irrelevant matters.

My advice is : It will be good if you take up the effort to learn more and more about Iyengar customs and tradition. Whether or not you finally end up marrying this girl͵ it would only help you in the long run. I presume you dont have a good Iyengar friend. Try to get one and learn from him all that you can. Study the similarities as well as differences with a broad mindset. Study the information available in the web and ask questions around. Ask your girl friend about the functions celebrated in her home and her memories relating to Iyengar community related celebrations. Preparation is the key to any assault (just kidding about the last word)

 

[tks]

I think you have purely misunderstood my posts...sometimes when one reads thru very fast the 1st impression of a post might not be the real message that is wanted to be conveyed.

I think in the past when we both discussed about Geeta shlokas you did mention that I misunderstood some posts mainly becos I lack a Guru.

I thought over what you said and I felt that you made sense..so same way here you might need sometime to understand my post..I am patient and willing to help out if you have any difficulty in understanding my posts.

Its just that you havent been specific enough for me to guide and respond to you.

So till full understanding of my posts is achieved by you...I feel its premature to label my posts and being putting down Iyengars.

Why would I want to be anti Iyengar?

The most fascinating Iyengar in Forum is Vaagmi Ji and the best looking Iyengar(who left forum) is Nara ji..so when we have hot and happening Iyengars do you really think that I am putting down Iyengars?

No way yaar.

If I have misunderstood by all means I am open to listen to you and be corrected.

Who is fascinating or who is good looking is actually not relevant here. Besides Sri Nara, if he is here to join the debate, will not like to be characterized as an Iyengar.

A definition of putting down could be taking negative attributes exhibited by some followers of a tradition and associating that in a general sense with all people that are the followers of the tradition. How many Vadakalai and Thenkalai followers do you really know? I have known people who have married across the Kalai traditions and there had been no issues. Why bring up how they put their Namam in the description which has the potential to come across as derogatory & put down?

In my experience those that are from Iyengar families act no differently when it comes to human emotions - good or bad- than any other people.

So I have few questions. I have seen you generalize comments about Hinduism sometime in a negative sense due to the fact that large number of people calling themselves Hindus have a problem called caste. I can resonate with that except I am not ready to generalize this to all people calling themselves Hindus. I can say based on what I know is that the Varna system (which is not caste) came out of broadminded thinking and not narrow minded world view. One of the persons who actually explained this well was Gandhi himself though many who do not understand the point will denigrate him and everyone else who says that.

Putting down others using caste is something that most people here in this forum will not support. But our actions and what we write are driven by our beliefs as well. With that as a back drop I want to ask you a few questions.

1. Do you really see people in terms of their caste? Since I know you as someone who is very honest and truthful to yourself, please think and let me know only if you feel like sharing that in this open forum

2. Are you bothered if someone really does not care to hold rules of caste in high esteem and claim that our scriptures (sruthi not smrithi) does not support birth based superiority of anyone

3. Do you think that most people hold onto their caste regardless of what caste they belong to?

4. Do you think that there are large number of Non Brahmins of various castes who will not want any alliance with Brahmins notwithstanding any hierarchy

5. Do you agree that there is no central controlling authority to authenticate someone's caste other than what Government of India is doing which only maintains information but does not provide authentication.


6. Do you agree if groups of people in any nation at any point in time (historically or now) have always have had differences, with some asserting superior sense to others (sometimes the groups may feel that way mutually)? If so, do you see caste related discrimination is far worse? If so why?


Let me stop here and I will listen to understand what your point is.

I know you really cared for the poster of the OP and wanted to let him know to stop wasting time chasing after something that is like a mirage. It was only that part that motivated you to respond. However please read what you wrote about Iyengars and see if there is any part that was indeed hitting a group below the belt as Sri Vaagmi alluded to independent of my reaction.

 

[tbs]

I am surprised by most of the replies above... many of them bordering on irrelevant matters.

My advice is : It will be good if you take up the effort to learn more and more about Iyengar customs and tradition. Whether or not you finally end up marrying this girl͵ it would only help you in the long run. I presume you dont have a good Iyengar friend. Try to get one and learn from him all that you can. Study the similarities as well as differences with a broad mindset. Study the information available in the web and ask questions around. Ask your girl friend about the functions celebrated in her home and her memories relating to Iyengar community related celebrations. Preparation is the key to any assault (just kidding about the last word)

hi

i can add some more....learn some iyengar vocabularies...like THALIGAI.....SAAATHAMUDHU/THITUKKANNAMUDHU.....feel

more familiar with iyengar madisar.....learn some ADHIKARA VADISAL.....learn PERUMAL SEVAI....DO SOME KAINKARYAM

IN IYENGAR MUTT/TEMPLE.....PUT THIRUNAMAM TO IMPRESS THE GIRL/FAMILY....FINALLY DONT PUT NAMAM TO THEIR

FAMILY...LOL...just kidding...

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

From your posts in the past it seems to me that you think that brahmins have a sense of superiority because of their caste. Let me share my view on this. A true sattva guna person is well balanced. He does not show bias in any of his views. He really does not pride on the brahmin tag.

But the situation is bit tricky because I think the gunas that are attributed to a brahmin have to exist or eventually aspired for by anybody. But when you are not agreeing with some of the negative practices of brahmins, you tend to disregard the values that brahmins are supposed to stand for. I think therein lies the problem.

So what I am saying is there are brahmins who possess the attitude you think they possess. I think they can be ignored as human foibles but let us try to practice and uphold the core values a sattva guna stands for.

I agree that a mix of gunas is necessary in the world but my post is to highlight the importance of sattva guna and that it should not be stifled and not finally disappear.

folks, sorry for the digression.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

From your posts in the past it seems to me that you think that brahmins have a sense of superiority because of their caste. Let me share my view on this. A true sattva guna person is well balanced. He does not show bias in any of his views. He really does not pride on the brahmin tag.

But the situation is bit tricky because I think the gunas that are attributed to a brahmin have to exist or eventually aspired for by anybody. But when you are not agreeing with some of the negative practices of brahmins, you tend to disregard the values that brahmins are supposed to stand for. I think therein lies the problem.

So what I am saying is there are brahmins who possess the attitude you think they possess. I think they can be ignored as human foibles but let us try to practice and uphold the core values a sattva guna stands for.

I agree that a mix of gunas is necessary in the world but my post is to highlight the importance of sattva guna and that it should not be stifled and not finally disappear.

folks, sorry for the digression.

Dear Sravna,

I think you got me wrong..I cant generalize all Brahmins..its not fair to drag all Brahmins in this.

We have to be specific..Brahmins are a diverse lot and Tamil Brahmin are just one type of Brahmin. We are talking about Tamil Brahmins here arent we?

So far in my dealings with Brahmins from other parts of India..they are just like anyone else.

So may be you might need to correct that line you wrote as

From your posts in the past it seems to me that you think that Tamil Brahmins have a sense of superiority because of their caste.

Now let me explain a little more..I am not saying TBs are having a superiority complex but they mostly like to keep telling everyone about themselves and their community.

I have not labelled that a Superiority complex but till today I dont know why many of them like to indulge in self praise...other Brahmins from other states NEVER do this from my experience with them.

Dont get wrong this is just my experience in life.


I personally do not believe in the Guna concept..so I am not going to label anyone Sattva,Rajas or Tamas.
I respect a person based on what his true nature is and not what society expects him to be or what he imagines to be.

I feel every human being has varied emotions depending on time,place and person.

BTW I dont agree or disagree with any practice of any community be it Brahmin or Dalit....for me its simple...I am just myself.

Why should I disregard anyone for what they stand for?

I see all men as equal..and if he is worthy of respect I will bow to him as a friend.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Despite numerous relevant and irrelevant, and some time rather stupid and silly comments, the gentleman concerned has not disclosed his religious side in Hinduism (Saivite or Vaishnavite). As I mentioned in my earlier blog, it is an accepted customs throughout the world that normally the bride will embrace the religion or sect, as the case may be, of bridegroom. Cricketers Imran Khan and Wazim Akram married Jewish and Christian brides respectively, and convert them to Islam and of course Pataudi.

I don't know why this gentleman is very particular to become an Iyengar. Iyengar population is less than 1% in Tamil Nadu and they are not like Smarthas spread throughout India. I don't know whether Vaishnavite Brahmins are living outside Tamil Nadu and, if so, whether they follow similar customs of Tamil Iyengars,

To avoid this, please insist your 'would be' to embrace or accept your caste or sect, which is the right thing to do. If you are a Saivite, embracing Vaishanavism is as good as conversion from one religion to another. Don't be a pseudo-Brahmin or pseudo-Vaishnavite. It will not help you in any way.

Generally, NB Saivites follow their customs properly and if you are one among them, stick on to it and don't be like Smarthas, most of them virtually become pseudo-Vaishnavites, including famous Mutts.

 

[sarang]

And dadhiyonnam. Akkaravadisil no adikaram. All good things prefixed with lakshmi (thiru) and dasya bhavam for all (with exceptions)!

Eduvume kudathu - namam, pattai, pattai namam.

One will think twice when he carries the sacred thiruvadi of sriman narayana on his forehead.

hi

i can add some more....learn some iyengar vocabularies...like THALIGAI.....SAAATHAMUDHU/THITUKKANNAMUDHU.....feel

more familiar with iyengar madisar.....learn some ADHIKARA VADISAL.....learn PERUMAL SEVAI....DO SOME KAINKARYAM

IN IYENGAR MUTT/TEMPLE.....PUT THIRUNAMAM TO IMPRESS THE GIRL/FAMILY....FINALLY DONT PUT NAMAM TO THEIR

FAMILY...LOL...just kidding...

 

[renuka]

My answers in blue:

If I have misunderstood by all means I am open to listen to you and be corrected.


Thank you..time is the best Guru!LOL

Who is fascinating or who is good looking is actually not relevant here. Besides Sri Nara, if he is here to join the debate, will not like to be characterized as an Iyengar.

Its very important for me..who is fascinating and who is good looking!

A definition of putting down could be taking negative attributes exhibited by some followers of a tradition and associating that in a general sense with all people that are the followers of the tradition. How many Vadakalai and Thenkalai followers do you really know? I have known people who have married across the Kalai traditions and there had been no issues. Why bring up how they put their Namam in the description which has the potential to come across as derogatory & put down?

Nope..I did not put down any Kalai here.. that is why I said "you misunderstood my post"

In my experience those that are from Iyengar families act no differently when it comes to human emotions - good or bad- than any other people.

So I have few questions. I have seen you generalize comments about Hinduism sometime in a negative sense due to the fact that large number of people calling themselves Hindus have a problem called caste. I can resonate with that except I am not ready to generalize this to all people calling themselves Hindus. I can say based on what I know is that the Varna system (which is not caste) came out of broadminded thinking and not narrow minded world view. One of the persons who actually explained this well was Gandhi himself though many who do not understand the point will denigrate him and everyone else who says that.

Putting down others using caste is something that most people here in this forum will not support. But our actions and what we write are driven by our beliefs as well. With that as a back drop I want to ask you a few questions.

1. Do you really see people in terms of their caste? Since I know you as someone who is very honest and truthful to yourself, please think and let me know only if you feel like sharing that in this open forum.

Ok I will be point blank...I never look at anyone thru the lenses of anything.I am a very private person in real life who does not like mixing around..even yesterday I attended a medical meeting and I did not speak to anyone cos I didnt feel like it.


2. Are you bothered if someone really does not care to hold rules of caste in high esteem and claim that our scriptures (sruthi not smrithi) does not support birth based superiority of anyone

For me..nothing bothers me as long others dont bother me.


3. Do you think that most people hold onto their caste regardless of what caste they belong to?

I dont know everyone to give an answer but I do know people out here(Non Brahmins) who hold on to their caste like how an underwear hugs the body.

4. Do you think that there are large number of Non Brahmins of various castes who will not want any alliance with Brahmins notwithstanding any hierarchy.

Yes and No...I know many of my college friends who did not get married cos it was the Non Brahmin family who wanted their own caste cos they would lose dowry and lineage will be mixed.
I have seen many cases like that.

But many NB families too are open minded and I have full 100% Tamil cousins who have married North Indian Brahmin girls..so it all depends on the family.

5. Do you agree that there is no central controlling authority to authenticate someone's caste other than what Government of India is doing which only maintains information but does not provide authentication.

here in Malaysia caste is not in our constitution..so the certification of "True Certified Caste' of anyone does not arise.



6. Do you agree if groups of people in any nation at any point in time (historically or now) have always have had differences, with some asserting superior sense to others (sometimes the groups may feel that way mutually)? If so, do you see caste related discrimination is far worse? If so why?

Any form of discrimination of bad..caste is just one of them..the pairs of opposite is a human trait..so even if there was no caste we humans will find some other way to divide ourselves!
Humans are not wired for peace..we are wired to divide and fight and die!LOL


Let me stop here and I will listen to understand what your point is.

I know you really cared for the poster of the OP and wanted to let him know to stop wasting time chasing after something that is like a mirage. It was only that part that motivated you to respond. However please read what you wrote about Iyengars and see if there is any part that was indeed hitting a group below the belt as Sri Vaagmi alluded to independent of my reaction.


I dont have any personal reason to be extra nice to any member here ...I am just my honest self as usual..even if it was you who wants to marry some chick or have a side kick I would give you advise if you asked me!LOL

I already mentioned that I dont hit below the belt cos it at times can be fatal for males.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

Heard in I I T campus:

Three degrees of ego in the ascending order........

1. 'I' ; 2. 'Iyer'; 3. 'IyengAr'.

:becky:

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

Heard in I I T campus:

Three degrees of ego in the ascending order........

1. 'I' ; 2. 'Iyer'; 3. 'IyengAr'.

:becky:

Dear RR ji,

Aiyooo! as it is I am being "accused" of being Anti Iyengar..now with this IIT joke you too might be accused of being anti iyengar!LOL

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Renu,

Heard in I I T campus:

Three degrees of ego in the ascending order........

1. 'I' ; 2. 'Iyer'; 3. 'IyengAr'.

:becky:

One popular rationalist used to say that 'I I T' means Iyer, Iyengar Technology.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear RR ji,

Aiyooo! as it is I am being "accused" of being Anti Iyengar..now with this IIT joke you too might be accused of being anti iyengar!LOL

Dear Renu,

I have three close friends who are IyergArs and one lady will not even drink water in my house! :lol:

 

[Raji Ram]

One popular rationalist used to say that 'I I T' means Iyer, Iyengar Technology.

WOW! Great news for brahmins!

Probably 'glory of the past'!!

 

[renuka]

Dear Renu,

I have three close friends who are IyergArs and one lady will not even drink water in my house! :lol:

Dear RR ji,

God forbid what if an Iyengar's house( who does not drink water from a house of an Iyer) catches fire? Would they allow fire department to douse the fire with water from the fire hydrant?LOL

 

[sarang]

S I R, south indian railways became S R - southern railway. But it was affectionately called - srirangam iyengar railway. I have heard that in local trains, each compartment was reserved - bhajan, seetu kacheri, paattu kacheri, arattai kacheri. Morning and evening travel, to and return from office, was an experience in itself; it was.

Dropping of I has nothing to with dravidian movement, just reorganization. Even IISc bangalore used this form of address. IISc, Bangalore, South India. Only when north indians opposed it, 'south' was dropped.

Dear Renu,

Heard in I I T campus:

Three degrees of ego in the ascending order........

1. 'I' ; 2. 'Iyer'; 3. 'IyengAr'.

:becky:

 

[vgane]

One popular rationalist used to say that 'I I T' means Iyer, Iyengar Technology.

Now IIT Madras has more of Telugu background..The Tambrahms who used to work hard for IIT earlier are lackadaisical & unenthusiastic when it comes to studying in premier Instt...I know in the 80's those who completed even 1 year BE/B.Sc applied for IIT to join the B.Tech programme as a fresher..The craze for a IIT degree was so strong..It is no more there now...The feeling that after BE one can study M.S in the U.S without any problems has changed the mind set..This is a paradigm shift

 

[sarang]

Doctors are expected to have clean, germ free hands. In days of yore, our family doctor used to dip his hand in a basin of dettol water after checking every patient. Nowadys, some wash in the wash basin, some apply germ kill gel and many just proceed. So it is how each applies the rule.

Ramanujacharya accepted the food given by the hunters (perhaps toda tribes) when he had to escape to karnataka via present day ooty. Perhaps it was just fruits and uncooked food like flour. Next time, instead of water, you can try fruit juice or fruits.

Dear Renu,

I have three close friends who are IyergArs and one lady will not even drink water in my house! :lol:

 

[renuka]

Doctors are expected to have clean, germ free hands. In days of yore, our family doctor used to dip his hand in a basin of dettol water after checking every patient. Nowadys, some wash in the wash basin, some apply germ kill gel and many just proceed. So it is how each applies the rule.

Ramanujacharya accepted the food given by the hunters (perhaps toda tribes) when he had to escape to karnataka via present day ooty. Perhaps it was just fruits and uncooked food like flour. Next time, instead of water, you can try fruit juice or fruits.

These days doctors do not use Dettol its too harsh for our skins..it dries skin...we just wash our hands with moisturizing Vitamin E based hand wash liquids and water for normal procedures so that our hands are soft and lovely and it has enough germicidal properties too.

Only for surgery we use Hibitane to scrub.

In non infective cases there is no need to wash hands after every patient.Only in potential infective cases one needs to wash hands..but those doctors with OCD might wash very often.

Washing hands for nothing at all destroys our own natural immunity of our skin.


You mean to say you want fire department to use Fruit Juice to douse fire?LOL

 

[sarang]

If RRji understands the purpose is served.

These days doctors do not use Dettol its too harsh for our skins..it dries skin...we just wash our hands with moisturizing Vitamin E based hand wash liquids and water for normal procedures so that our hands are soft and lovely and it has enough germicidal properties too.

Only for surgery we use Hibitane to scrub.

In non infective cases there is no need to wash hands after every patient.Only in potential infective cases one needs to wash hands..but those doctors with OCD might wash very often.

Washing hands for nothing at all destroys our own natural immunity of our skin.


You mean to say you want fire department to use Fruit Juice to douse fire?LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

.......... Ramanujacharya accepted the food given by the hunters (perhaps toda tribes) when he had to escape to karnataka via present day ooty. Perhaps it was just fruits and uncooked food like flour. Next time, instead of water, you can try fruit juice or fruits.

Dear Sir,

Why should I? If the clean boiled water offered by me, a brahmin friend, is refused,

I need not offer something else and coax her to eat it!

 

[Vanaja Mani]

Going back to the OP,

Love marriages are very hard for parents to accept as each parent has their own dream of what their son or daughter's life should be like. This includes who they marry as in Indian culture, this has a major influence on the entire family. I have recently come to know of a boy and girl here in Sydney both tambrahms who wanted to get married but turned out their gothrams were the same. Boy's parents wanted girl to change her gothram by being adopted out to someone like her maternal uncle. The girl refused on the grounds that if both are of the same gothram why should I be the one to suffer by not having my parents giving me away. Either we follow the gothra system and not get married or if we reject the gothra system let us get married with my parents giving me away. Boys parents did not agree so she decided to walk away.

Moral of the story is whenever the boy and girl try love marriage a certain amount of resistance or barrier is created naturally or by circumstances to test their love. If both the boy and girl are willing to fight for their love, they will definitely get married. if not the love is just mere infatuation.

Vanaja

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Going back to the OP,

Moral of the story is whenever the boy and girl try love marriage a certain amount of resistance or barrier is created naturally or by circumstances to test their love. If both the boy and girl are willing to fight for their love, they will definitely get married. if not the love is just mere infatuation.

Vanaja

Mam,

You are right. That ‘fighting’ or ‘Do or die’ spirit is missing in the thread opener’s post. Instead, he allowed members for a heated debate with the thread derailing now and then. He kept silent through out, probably would thought that 'Silence is Golden'.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Renu,

I have three close friends who are IyergArs and one lady will not even drink water in my house! :lol:

How can you have such people as your close friends? I think you downgrade yourself, apart from the whole community.

Such an action strongly proves Smarthas are generally lacking integrity and feel proud about encouraging such things for centuries hence. Whilst Iyengars have right to follow their customs, Iyers who encourage and feel proud about is rather surprising. This will speak very bad of Smartha community as a whole, which is spread throughout India.

At least from now onwards, please avoid encouraging people, at least for community's sake.

 

[renuka]

Going back to the OP,

Love marriages are very hard for parents to accept as each parent has their own dream of what their son or daughter's life should be like. This includes who they marry as in Indian culture, this has a major influence on the entire family. I have recently come to know of a boy and girl here in Sydney both tambrahms who wanted to get married but turned out their gothrams were the same. Boy's parents wanted girl to change her gothram by being adopted out to someone like her maternal uncle. The girl refused on the grounds that if both are of the same gothram why should I be the one to suffer by not having my parents giving me away. Either we follow the gothra system and not get married or if we reject the gothra system let us get married with my parents giving me away. Boys parents did not agree so she decided to walk away.

Moral of the story is whenever the boy and girl try love marriage a certain amount of resistance or barrier is created naturally or by circumstances to test their love. If both the boy and girl are willing to fight for their love, they will definitely get married. if not the love is just mere infatuation.

Vanaja

Brave girl..she did the right thing by walking away..cos why give up her identity and be adopted by maternal uncle when she has living parents to give her away?The boys parents should have never suggested that cos that is purely the girls decision to respect her parents and not be adopted by her maternal uncle.

So in such situations a girl can make out that the boys side seem dominant to have their way so she could have thought "if at the begining itself they can dictate terms..if anything goes wrong they will blame her and try to control her life..so better break off instead of suffering"

She did the right thing..the All or None Phenomenon..either follow tradition or dont..no need to twist and turn anything on technical grounds.

Giving up love and deciding not to marry cannot be term infatuation..sometimes we need to use logical reasoning.
There is no use just ruining our life for the sake of love cos we can always love again.

The problem is most people think love comes only once in our lives..love can even happen extra marital.

So there is always chance to love and love again.

Parents should move with times..at present day its better for parents to play the role of a wedding planner and just plan the wedding according to the desire of the bride and groom and attend the wedding like a VIP ..who comes for the wedding but does not get personal with the bride and groom.