Is the Community digging its own grave

[Asirvadam]

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The community is not digging its grave. A few guile elements in the community are preparing the coffin, unsuccessfully searching for corpses to fill.

 

[Asirvadam]

In response to renuka's post #94, "BTW I forgot to add one more succesful Non Brahmin Marathi father and TB mother".

They are one more successful husband and wife couple, not Non-Brahmin-Marathi-and-TB-mother, who have successfully overcome initial hiccups in their wedded life and successfully raised 2 beautiful girls as successful women, one a successful film director and the other a successful career woman.

 

[vgane]

If what you say is true, then why this OP and the lament

Dear Vaagmi,

I think many of us have not gone through the Excel sheet that I embedded in Microsoft office picture

I am attaching this again for the benefit of the group

Our Tambrahms are like the Frogs inside cold water that is being slowly heated....Put a frog in boiling water and it will jump for safety...But put it in cold water and slowly heat it...It will not notice the danger and will be boiled alive...:

We are not aware of the monumental changes that are happening in our Tambrahm community that has not happened since millions of years and we may perish like the frog in the above example

I leave it to the group that this is one chance for us to get together and finalize our strategy

What we will finalize and act as a group will have implications for our future generations

Are we going to fight with each other and loose a golden chance to bring in reform in our community and get our children in sync or we going to act as role models for our brethren

If we get our act together even the Governments will heed our request if we have anything required from the Governments

View attachment Population Trend.bmp

 

[renuka]

I would like to add on a little about human behavior when it comes to choosing a spouse.

1)Some can only feel comfortable with a person who is from their own community/caste.

2)Some can feel comfortable with a person from a different community/caste but same religion..for example an intercaste or interstate marriage where both are Hindus.

3)Some can feel comfortable with anyone from any race/religion/caste etc.


We just have to be honest to ourselves and decide which category we fall in.

For me I am category No 2 where I can only feel comfortable marrying a fellow Hindu regardless of caste and type of Indian.

Each and everyone differs and some might be category 2 or category 3 and hence have no problems marrying out of their caste.

It is not that they do not value their caste and community or lifestyle..it is becos their make up and nature is different.

So no use playing the blame game..just have an honest chat with children and ask them which category they are and try to solve the "problem" if it is a problem to start with.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mr. Sangom,

I have two grandsons aged 6 and 2 years. I don't know what my grandsons - british citizens - will do when they grow up and I may not be alive at that time. But if I live that long and still have all my faculties intact, I will not compel them either to marry only brahmin or even hindu girls, nor will I compel them against these. It will be their choice completely.

I expected nothing more than this from you. The easy way out. Thanks.

 

[Vaagmi]

I find it interesting to watch how people remain hardcore hypocrites and cleverly hide their hypocrisy with words and sentences. One moment you will find them giving big lectures on how bad it is to speak about castes. They will say there is nothing superior about being a brahmin. They will call people who say brahmin culture is unique as brahmin supremacist/chauvinist pigs(BCP). They will say IC/IR marriages are not only perfectly alright and desirable but would also say they are good for the humanity. Touch them personally and scratch them you will find them in their true colors. If they are sincere and steadfast in their belief that IC/IR marriages are the best for the community they should recommend that best to their near and dear ones. My argument is not that marriage is something which is determined only by the parents. While ideally it is certainly a matter of choice by the concerned individual, practically parents do play their role. They facilitate. They advise and help the children in the matter of selection and guide them keeping the welfare of the child in mind. The parents as well as the children know that it helps. So when as a parent you have the welfare of the child in your mind, and when you strongly believe and preach from the roof top about the goodness, appropriateness and advantages of a IC/IR marriage should you not strongly recommend it to your children? Like you prevent your child from marrying an alcoholic, like you actively nudge your child to go for a handsome, well earning boy from a good family background, why don't you recommend that the child should only choose from another caste and not from the brahmin caste? My point is that you won't do that. You won't do that because when it comes to your personal self the shoe pinches. You can eloquently recommend things to others like our politicians recommending tamil medium for education. When it comes to your personal self you will become very very philosophic and equivocating and say "I wont interfere and I will leave it to the child to decide". Some honesty this.

So friends who are recommending IC/IR marriages, please go and first give all your children in marriage to IC/IR spouses and then come and claim your position here to preach. People of Indian Origin living in other countries have a different kind of problem. They have no choice. They have to put their children to study and live in those countries and they pick up the values and experiences which that society offers. Those children will marry according to the culture of that land. Marry, they have to. So their experience and their acquired value system in those lands is not relevant to the people who still live here in India. Mr. Kunjuppu, I understand your compulsions. This is not directed against any one in particular. Thanks.

 

[Vaagmi]

ha ha ha.. yes, i keep telling my children to learn mandarin , but they all opted for french and spanish. oh ..those young ones !!!!!!

btw sangom, more than 95% (i hate to use 100% because there will always be one exception) tambrams i know in toronto (about 50+ families), have their children married out of caste or race or religion.

how quickly the caste cloak came off? is it because we are outside of india where such varattu gauravams dont matter?

i find my friends here, red neck tambrams once, have mellowed gradually over the years, as their children bring boyfriends girlfriends friends of other types, and they learn to initially grudge, then accept and finally to love. almost 100% there is eventual acceptance, and in almost all cases the unions have been happy and fruitful.

a proud tambram grandfather does not care if his grandchild is half white or half sikh or half punjabi or half telugu. it is his pride and joy,and he still goes out of his way, to babysit and take care of the child. with much fondness, as any of our grandparents in palakkad or thiruvananthapuram

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

My daughter is learning Mandarin.

Toronto is not in India and you do not have large number of tabras living there. Marriage is not only a social necessity but also a biological need. So your Torontoites have to marry from what is available there. This has nothing to do with gauravam or a varattu one at that.

A proud tambram grandpa in Toronto will have to necessarily not care if his grand child is half white or half punjabi or half telugu (I do not know why you left out half black and half chinese) and babysit the child with fondness because he has consciously chosen to live in Canada leaving behind India. He has no other choice. Thanks.

 

[Brahmanyan]

When I look at the social history of Tamil Brahmins for the past 75 years,which I am personally aware of, I find that there is a phenomenal change in our behaviour and attitude of acceptance to reality. During this period we have left our Caste appendages in dress like Madisar and Panchakacham as also the kudumi and embraced the non-brahmin (or western) attire happily. External caste markings like Vibhuthi and Namam are reserved for occasions like Temple visits and religious ceremonies in the family. Then I do not understand why we should lament on the inter caste/religious marriage now. Real Brahmins as enunciated in the Varnasrama dharma, have become endangered species now. Racial pedigree under the Gothra and Anuloma marriages are the preserves of the past era, it has no relevance to the community today.

It is my view,in a liberated society of Brahmins, love marriages and mixing up of castes, communities will be the rule and not an exception in future. But the basic brand of "Tamil Brahmin" will sustain all these changes successfully and continue for ever.

 

[vgane]

When I look at the social history of Tamil Brahmins for the past 75 years,which I am personally aware of, I find that there is a phenomenal change in our behaviour and attitude of acceptance to reality. During this period we have left our Caste appendages in dress like Madisar and Panchakacham as also the kudumi and embraced the non-brahmin attire happily. External caste markings like Vibhuthi and Namam are reserved for occasions like Temple visits and religious ceremonies in the family. Then I do not understand why we should lament on the inter caste/religious marriage now. Real Brahmins as enunciated in the Varnasrama dharma, have become endangered species now. Racial pedigree under the Gothra and Anuloma marriages are the preserves of the past era, it has no relevance to the community today.

It is my view,in a liberated society of Brahmins, love marriages and mixing up of castes, communities will be the rule and not an exception in future. But the basic brand of "Tamil Brahmin" will sustain all these changes successfully and continue for ever.

Dear Sir,

We gave up all the aforementioned (Namam, Vibhuti, Madisar, Panchakacham) to live in peace & be with the changing times..But never was it for self destruction...Tambrahms still follow the religious functions including the karmas...But now at one stroke we are saying Hell to the community thereby putting all our culture, traditions to naught...Let us resolve this headon rather than rue and portray ourself as a victim...Tomorrow if there is conversion happening in your locality will you convert to a Muslim or Christian...Let us not deceive the future progeny of the community through the chalta hai attitude...Let us face the issue squarely ..Let us be brave, confident and determined to stop this malaise

 

[sangom]

When I look at the social history of Tamil Brahmins for the past 75 years,which I am personally aware of, I find that there is a phenomenal change in our behaviour and attitude of acceptance to reality. During this period we have left our Caste appendages in dress like Madisar and Panchakacham as also the kudumi and embraced the non-brahmin (or western) attire happily. External caste markings like Vibhuthi and Namam are reserved for occasions like Temple visits and religious ceremonies in the family. Then I do not understand why we should lament on the inter caste/religious marriage now. Real Brahmins as enunciated in the Varnasrama dharma, have become endangered species now. Racial pedigree under the Gothra and Anuloma marriages are the preserves of the past era, it has no relevance to the community today.

It is my view,in a liberated society of Brahmins, love marriages and mixing up of castes, communities will be the rule and not an exception in future. But the basic brand of "Tamil Brahmin" will sustain all these changes successfully and continue for ever.

Dear Shri Brahmanyan,

It is surprising that you have such a broad view. But, given a chance, our anti IC members are most likely to point out that you have lived by the rule-book and have tabra sons-in-law / daughters-in-law and so now you can well have a don't care attitude.

That apart, have you noticed that our anti-IC/IR lobby twists our pov to make it sound as if we are all anti-tabra alliances? I have sort of déja vue here; this has happened before also.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Sir,

We gave up all the aforementioned (Namam, Vibhuti, Madisar, Panchakacham) to live in peace & be with the changing times..But never was it for self destruction...Tambrahms still follow the religious functions including the karmas...But now at one stroke we are saying Hell to the community thereby putting all our culture, traditions to naught...Let us resolve this headon rather than rue and portray ourself as a victim...Tomorrow if there is conversion happening in your locality will you convert to a Muslim or Christian...Let us not deceive the future progeny of the community through the chalta hai attitude...Let us face the issue squarely ..Let us be brave, confident and determined to stop this malaise

Dear Sri "vgane",

I am in full agreement with you that we should not destroy our Culture and rich traditions assiduously refined for generations by our forefathers. No one will be happy to see their children breaking the tradition and culture of the community.
But, let us understand the reality. Our forefathers were able to control the families when the community was living as small groups in villages. The social structure and discipline have changed very much when we mingle at large, in big cities. The economic independence of individuals, both boys and girls are different now. Parental control over children now is minimal. Children do not like the interference of Parents in their personal life. This brings friction in families resulting in breakup.
One practical suggestion is in getting the children married when they attain marriageable age, with out waiting for them to select their partners in life due to parents delaying the same for some reason or other.

This is a serious subject. In fact we have discussed this subject in various threads under different heading.
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Vaagmi]

Mr. Sangom said in #105:

That apart, have you noticed that our anti-IC/IR lobby twists our pov to make it sound as if we are all anti-tabra alliances? I have sort of déja vue here; this has happened before also.

You can be pro tambram alliances or anti tambram alliances. That depends on whether you think it is good or bad. You can not be pro tem tabra alliances because you strongly feel IC marriages are all great, desirable and the need of the day. You cannot be pro IC/IR marriages and yet say you are not anti tambram alliances because of the simple fact that the alliance can be only either of the two.

 

[tks]

1. All that is good in the culture and values need to be preserved. What is good means what is universally accepted as good.

2. Preservation involves teaching them to tne next generation, children etc., so that these good aspects of culture and good values do not become extinct. They need to be preserved because they are good.

3. If you do not preserve, all the effort(over centuries) and internalization that went into acquiring and retaining these good aspects of culture and values will go waste. What is going to replace them may be or may not be good. Just an example:

Our culture glorifies "நும்முன் பிறந்தது நுவ்வையாகும்" kind of discipline even in matters controlled by ductless glands and hormones whereas not asking a boyfriend after an outing on dating(with a lot of kissing and petting thrown in) to stay back for the night is considered bad etiquette in courtship in another culture. Of course the mother in that culture/society is bothered about other consequences and carefully reminds the girl about taking a condom even before she goes on the outing.

In this, what is good value and what is bad value varies according to cultures (கால தேச வர்த்தமானங்களுக்கு ஏற்றவாறு). Let me hasten to add I am not making any value judgment here as to what is good and what is bad in this. But what is desirable and what is not is determined by the society in which we live.

Let us ask ourselves if TB households stand for item number 1 above which is "All that is good in the culture and values need to be preserved. What is good means what is universally accepted as good." In my limited experience with people of TB community statistically they represent the overall population ...For example I am sure TBs contribute to the the corruption problem in India like all other groups do, statistically speaking. They want black money while selling a house like any other seller would want in today's India.

I am making a distinction here between values and principles : former being subjective and the later universal. I have come across many Satvic TB people who are keen to learn and strive to be aligned with the universal laws (Samanya Dharma).

I have also come across a few who call themselves a TB that are aping the west without understanding, projecting a Brahmin heritage without understanding and developing fashionable taste for expensive non-vegetarian dishes.

The word Brahmin has a meaning and I know many NB by birth who actually live the principles implied by the word.

The issue is that birth based classification of Brahmins is meaningless for most part in today's world. There may be nothing to preserve if people who do not uphold the essence of word but are acknowledged that identity called Brahmin.

Couple of years ago I came across a woman in her late 20s in a Vedanta class I was attending. She was from an area near Brazil and her knowledge of our Upanishads was phenomenal. She was able to read and interpret Sanskrit verses on her own, and was an exceptionally mature and satvic person. She was stunningly beautiful and was attractive even more for the personality she projected. She had chosen the lifestyle of a vegetarian for all the right reasons. Being an outsider learning about Hinduism she had meticulously learned the significance of many of our rituals and was able to articulate the meta meanings with precision. Whether it was chanting Rudram or singing the Aarathi a person that understands the meaning is better able to feel it when they are participating.

Not sure if she is considering marriage or becoming a Sannyasi (had been to Rishikesh twice). To me she is represent a (new breed of Guna) Brahmin that B.Gita refers to. Inter-race marriage to such a person would be a privilege in my view to the family of her husband if she chooses to marry.

I also know attended a wedding between a TB American boy (who had gone astray in terms of principles for a while ) and married a nice white woman in her late 20s. They had a Vedic wedding. She is not as well versed as the women from Brazil about values and principles from our scriptures. She had a reverence to learn Satvic way of life. She has enabled her husband to appreciate all the values and they have a very TB like life to the extent it is natural and possible. He now does Sandhyavandhanam (with understanding) once in the morning from what I understand. Most of all what was striking to me was how wonderfully kind and nice she is.

We come across many persons who are clueless and hypocrites in terms of practice, but call themselves TB. Is there anything to 'preserve' what they represent? It seems we have new breed of Guna Brahmins that are already beginning to preserve the values and principles.

If our community has to preserve all that is good they must first educate themselves and become serious students of our scriptures that are timeless and relevant. They must strive to practice a satvi way of life. They must understand what is Samanya Dharma and embrace it. They must be able to teach others and their children with cogent explanation or at least direct them to someone who can. They must respect all the Guna Brahmins in every other race and caste.

That is unlikely to happen judging by false pride and ignorance in many posts of so called TB in forums like this.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sir,

We gave up all the aforementioned (Namam, Vibhuti, Madisar, Panchakacham) to live in peace & be with the changing times..But never was it for self destruction...Tambrahms still follow the religious functions including the karmas...But now at one stroke we are saying Hell to the community thereby putting all our culture, traditions to naught...Let us resolve this headon rather than rue and portray ourself as a victim...Tomorrow if there is conversion happening in your locality will you convert to a Muslim or Christian...Let us not deceive the future progeny of the community through the chalta hai attitude...Let us face the issue squarely ..Let us be brave, confident and determined to stop this malaise

Shri Gane,

When you state, "Tambrahms still follow the religious functions including the karmas", you are either conveniently forgetting that few of the tabras do the three sandhyavandanams, oupaasanam, vaisvadevam, vedaabhyaasam etc., as part of their daily routine. The tarpanams which I find being done in mathams, halls, etc., by large groups has been conveniently abridged and the riks have been completely omitted. According to our traditional beliefs, tarpanam done without reciting the appropriate rik mantras do not reach the pitrus.

All in all, what the so-called upholders of religion do today is a comic mime or parody of the true brahmin culture and nothing more.

In these circumstances, it is quite possible that further dilution of our religious functions and Karmas may take place as we go along. We tabras have allowed the real treasure of our brahminism and brahministic beliefs, rites, karmas, etc., on our journey in time for the sake of material gains, and are holding only the empty casket in our hands. Should we worry now, so much, if this casket also is damaged, broken or even completely lost? After all, the treasure we have already lost irreparably.

 

[sarang]

There is nothing wrong even if one feels superior for certain set of values or behaviour. Western thinking and logic has brain washed us into thinking that if one is superior, the other is inferior. If I say, this doctor is good or better, it does not follow that all other doctors are inferior or bad. One doesn't have to evolve in spirituality to understand this.

Please don't waste your time in arguing, but state your views and march on. There are a few who stand on the side of the royal highway and shout abuses (like racist, supremacist) or just throw stones. They have such a poor opinion of our culture, community and ancestors.

Dear Shri Nara, Yes I do care a lot about spirituality but does that mean I consider myself superior if I am spiritual? It is like saying if I care a lot about money , I would consider myself superior if I were rich.The conclusion does not follow. What does follow is that I would be glad that I am rich. Feeling good about something you possess and feeling superior about it are not the same. Regarding nayanmars again Nara's conclusion does not follow because I did not say that spiritual development is restricted only to the brahmins. But in general the reverse is true.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Dear Shri Brahmanyan,

It is surprising that you have such a broad view. But, given a chance, our anti IC members are most likely to point out that you have lived by the rule-book and have tabra sons-in-law / daughters-in-law and so now you can well have a don't care attitude.

That apart, have you noticed that our anti-IC/IR lobby twists our pov to make it sound as if we are all anti-tabra alliances? I have sort of déja vue here; this has happened before also.

Dear Sri "sangom",

If you go through my previous posts you will find my views are always the same.
If we go through our life, we will find there are always two views, one is ideal and other is practical, based on reality. For a long time my views were built on idealism of what it should be and when once I realised what it is, I came out to face the reality in life. It needs a lot of will and conviction to accept the reality, but not difficult.First I tried my best to shed all the muck of false notions that I have gathered in the name of Caste and Community and understood the truth of the words "वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम्" vasudhaiva kuṭumbakam. World is a wonderful place to live if we accept the reality and adjust ourselves accordingly, instead of creating conflicts. Personally at my age, I don't care what others think or comment about me. All I care is my conscience, which is my guide and God in my actions.

With warm regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sangom]

<snip> Western thinking and logic has brain washed us into thinking that if one is superior, the other is inferior. If I say, this doctor is good or better, it does not follow that all other doctors are inferior or bad. One doesn't have to evolve in spirituality to understand this.

For ordinary human intelligence, anywhere in the world, if one says "I am superior", it necessarily implies a comparison, and if the compared item is not stated, then the implied meaning is "I am superior to you." But may be, under the pure oriental thinking it does not make any difference and everyone can boast "I am superior"

So, if someone says "the supermarket is costlier", according to the oriental scheme of things it just does not mean that some other shop is cheaper, or less costly! This is perhaps what obtains in "saayujya" !

 

[vgane]

Shri Gane,

When you state, "Tambrahms still follow the religious functions including the karmas", you are either conveniently forgetting that few of the tabras do the three sandhyavandanams, oupaasanam, vaisvadevam, vedaabhyaasam etc., as part of their daily routine. The tarpanams which I find being done in mathams, halls, etc., by large groups has been conveniently abridged and the riks have been completely omitted. According to our traditional beliefs, tarpanam done without reciting the appropriate rik mantras do not reach the pitrus.

All in all, what the so-called upholders of religion do today is a comic mime or parody of the true brahmin culture and nothing more.

In these circumstances, it is quite possible that further dilution of our religious functions and Karmas may take place as we go along. We tabras have allowed the real treasure of our brahminism and brahministic beliefs, rites, karmas, etc., on our journey in time for the sake of material gains, and are holding only the empty casket in our hands. Should we worry now, so much, if this casket also is damaged, broken or even completely lost? After all, the treasure we have already lost irreparably.

Dear Shri Sangom,

I do understand the anguish about the non adherance to the nitya karmas which will result in law of retributive action (Karma)...Besides rituals, good Karmas are also created by virtuous thoughts, words and deeds..Altruistic deeds and charity will also help

It was possible to follow the Nitya Karma in the agrarian economy esp in the villages

However with 95% migration to the cities and towns where one has to go for job at 8 AM some of the rituals were not feasible...But to say that because you are not following the rituals cursing them to dissolve with other castes and communities is heresy...

Given the constraints, Brahmins are trying to follow whatever is feasible..It may be a compromise but I would say the soul is intact...In North India for example as doing Karmas on exact dates of Thithis is not feasible they do shradh in the Pitru paksha period in the Krishna Paksha fortnight

Instead of repairing the casket you are asking us to throw away that treasure trove and you are thrusting Bible and Koran in our hands..

Instead of writing an epitaph please guide us what needs to be done

 

[prasad1]

Let us ask ourselves if TB households stand for item number 1 above which is "All that is good in the culture and values need to be preserved. What is good means what is universally accepted as good." In my limited experience with people of TB community statistically they represent the overall population ...For example I am sure TBs contribute to the the corruption problem in India like all other groups do, statistically speaking. They want black money while selling a house like any other seller would want in today's India.

I am making a distinction here between values and principles : former being subjective and the later universal. I have come across many Satvic TB people who are keen to learn and strive to be aligned with the universal laws (Samanya Dharma).

I have also come across a few who call themselves a TB that are aping the west without understanding, projecting a Brahmin heritage without understanding and developing fashionable taste for expensive non-vegetarian dishes.

The word Brahmin has a meaning and I know many NB by birth who actually live the principles implied by the word.

The issue is that birth based classification of Brahmins is meaningless for most part in today's world. There may be nothing to preserve if people who do not uphold the essence of word but are acknowledged that identity called Brahmin.

Couple of years ago I came across a woman in her late 20s in a Vedanta class I was attending. She was from an area near Brazil and her knowledge of our Upanishads was phenomenal. She was able to read and interpret Sanskrit verses on her own, and was an exceptionally mature and satvic person. She was stunningly beautiful and was attractive even more for the personality she projected. She had chosen the lifestyle of a vegetarian for all the right reasons. Being an outsider learning about Hinduism she had meticulously learned the significance of many of our rituals and was able to articulate the meta meanings with precision. Whether it was chanting Rudram or singing the Aarathi a person that understands the meaning is better able to feel it when they are participating.

Not sure if she is considering marriage or becoming a Sannyasi (had been to Rishikesh twice). To me she is represent a (new breed of Guna) Brahmin that B.Gita refers to. Inter-race marriage to such a person would be a privilege in my view to the family of her husband if she chooses to marry.

I also know attended a wedding between a TB American boy (who had gone astray in terms of principles for a while ) and married a nice white woman in her late 20s. They had a Vedic wedding. She is not as well versed as the women from Brazil about values and principles from our scriptures. She had a reverence to learn Satvic way of life. She has enabled her husband to appreciate all the values and they have a very TB like life to the extent it is natural and possible. He now does Sandhyavandhanam (with understanding) once in the morning from what I understand. Most of all what was striking to me was how wonderfully kind and nice she is.

We come across many persons who are clueless and hypocrites in terms of practice, but call themselves TB. Is there anything to 'preserve' what they represent? It seems we have new breed of Guna Brahmins that are already beginning to preserve the values and principles.

If our community has to preserve all that is good they must first educate themselves and become serious students of our scriptures that are timeless and relevant. They must strive to practice a satvi way of life. They must understand what is Samanya Dharma and embrace it. They must be able to teach others and their children with cogent explanation or at least direct them to someone who can. They must respect all the Guna Brahmins in every other race and caste.

That is unlikely to happen judging by false pride and ignorance in many posts of so called TB in forums like this.

Wonderful and honest analysis of the reality. The only point I have problem is that TB in TN may not be able to relate to it. Their life experience may be different.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Sri "sangom",

If you go through my previous posts you will find my views are always the same.
If we go through our life, we will find there are always two views, one is ideal and other is practical, based on reality. For a long time my views were built on idealism of what it should be and when once I realised what it is, I came out to face the reality in life. It needs a lot of will and conviction to accept the reality, but not difficult.First I tried my best to shed all the muck of false notions that I have gathered in the name of Caste and Community and understood the truth of the words "वसुधैव कुटुम्बकम्" vasudhaiva kuṭumbakam. World is a wonderful place to live if we accept the reality and adjust ourselves accordingly, instead of creating conflicts. Personally at my age, I don't care what others think or comment about me. All I care is my conscience, which is my guide and God in my actions.

With warm regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

I applaud your post for the honesty and practicality.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Mr. Brahmanyan,

Your post#111:

World is a wonderful place to live if we accept the reality and adjust ourselves accordingly, instead of creating conflicts.

Please let us know, according to you, 1. what is the reality 2. How do we adjust and with what 3. what conflict do we create.

This will help us understand your world view.

 

[Nara]

....However with 95% migration to the cities and towns where one has to go for job at 8 AM some of the rituals were not feasible...But to say that because you are not following the rituals cursing them to dissolve with other castes and communities is heresy...

Vaagmi was quite harsh (post 101) with what he sees as hypocrisy of those who want to accept IC/IR if that is what their children and grandchildren choose. To do this he says all of us think IC/IR marriages are good for Brahmins. I do, but not others like Sangom who only are advocating acceptance if that happens. Now, would Vaagmi be equally harsh with this convenient hypocrisy of adjusting to the practical reality of having to go to jobs at 8AM and yet wax eloquent about how great Brahmnical way of life is? Never mind the fact no compromise is necessary even if you have to go to jobs at 8AM, you can still fulfill nitya karma and even perform aradhanai, I used to do during my days of delusion .

BTW, vgane, I am not criticising you, I understand your predicament, it is difficult to maintain the old ways when everything has changed. My wish is for everyone to apply the same logic when it comes to IC/IR as well. It is not like you have to take a வச்சா குடிமி, சரச்சா மொட்டை approach like Vaagmi's ridiculous suggestion that you must be either against IC/IR or you must be against within caste marriage or else you are a hypocrite. Just be flexible and don't let caste pride trump your love for your kids, that is all. Continue to guide your children to make the right choices as you see, and when they do make choices support them even if they are not what you like, that is "our" position if I may be so bold to speak for others who seem to agree with this position. My own position is much more radical, but that is a different story.

best wishes ...

 

[prasad1]

Instead of repairing the casket you are asking us to throw away that treasure trove and you are thrusting Bible and Koran in our hands..

Sorry for butting in.
Are you sure that it is treasure trove?

 

[vgane]

Sorry for butting in.
Are you sure that it is treasure trove?

For me it is a treasure trove..You can decide for yourself

 

[tks]

Wonderful and honest analysis of the reality. The only point I have problem is that TB in TN may not be able to relate to it. Their life experience may be different.

Sri Prasad - Thanks !
You are right that many TB in TN and even other places cannot relate to the overall message.
===================


I have few more comments that may make some annoyed but that is not the intent of my note below

The problem is that aside cultural practices like eating Kozhakkatai (கொழக்கட்டை) on Pillayar Chathurthi and trying to live this edict 'Brhamana Bhojana Priya', they have limited knowledge and exposure. Some think that doing some some Karma or Pooja etc (in a blah blah manner) is about living a Brahmin lifestyle. I am not knocking that practice - it is a great start but many remain at that level.

Moreover with limited exposure to buzz words - Nirguna Brahman, Maya etc they conjure up an image of reality and make up things which are meaningless nonsense and attribute to our scriptures ("Our scriptures teach us that ......etc"). They are lazy to take the time to learn from proper teachers. They may go to temples but may not know significance of saying the shanti mantra and may not even want to know the profundity of thought embedded in many of the ritualistic practices.

In the modern world where younger people are exposed to information via Internet and phone technologies it is not possible to follow a lifestyle that is 'blah blah' to them. They get exposed to members of opposite sex due to today's lifestyle. Also many youngsters all around the world (not just in TN) today reject the narrow minded interpretations or other hate messages. Topic of gay marriage was a taboo idea back in the 1970s and 1980s in USA. Today the younger generation does not care. I am sure such ideas will spill into India also. Many TB think gayness is a perversion of choice!

For 'our community' to preserve great values of our traditions they have to first learn what they really are. It is not that every person has to be knowledgeable but there has to be a few authoritative sources who are readily available in every community.

My proposal would be the following. I know many TB in India will laugh & mock this proposal since they cannot relate to this also.

A mutt or some organization need to set up a Brahmin certification program - it should be open to anyone, not just to those born in a Brahmin family.

The certification has to be maintained by being subjected to evaluation every other year or at some periodicity. The program has to include evaluation of lifestyles (to gauge if they are satvic in their approach to issues), knowledge levels and ability to teach others about significance of our rituals. They need to do this without resorting to a belief systems alone.

A tough certification of Guna Brahmana may seem silly idea but actually is a way of saving all that is good in a community. It is also a way of weeding out the fake TB types that are source of this 'destruction'. I think the certification has to include knowledge of rituals, significance of Puranic stories, meaning of key slokas and mantras etc and willingness to commit some time to serving their community with interpretations.

With internet being readily available it is possible to create a 'body of knowledge' as known in any certification programs.
There can be further programs for those given the authority to grant certification.

When one understands the reasons the youth wants to follow for all the right reasons. Let me use my first hand experience to make a point and close.

My daughter born in USA wears a Pottu most of the time including at academic meetings because the symbolism as she understands represent a profound wisdom. It is that knowledge that makes one follow a practice. When she visits TN many of her cousins tell her it is all old fashioned and outdated practice.

My son's apartment (he is also a PhD student) had a mouse problem in his apartment. The landlord wanted to put poison so they eat it , and take it to other mice. He found out that they will then die out of thirst over many days after a lot of suffering. It is a problem his room mate wanted to resolve quickly.

So he got one of those humane traps to catch them from Amazon online. It turned out that the silly system did not work - the mouse or mice just came and ate the cookie, left and crumbs without being captured. Then he asked me to ask one of my vedanta teachers what is the right thing to do. I told him to buy one of those traps that kill instantly since catching a mouse and relocating it against local laws.

My children will dislike if they ever found out I used them as examples in this forum since it may sound like bragging about some Hindu values using them as props. My apologies to anyone if that comes across that way.

The larger point is that knowledge alone can help preserve any tradition where the rituals actually symbolizes that knowledge.