Tambrahms to become extinct by 2035

[biswa]

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Ok Sravna ji, I was only pulling your leg. Please dont mind.

IMHO beauty is solely in the eye of the beholder. Even the African pygmy or the Australian aborigine will find others of their tribe to be beautiful.

 

[sravna]

Ok Sravna ji, I was only pulling your leg. Please dont mind.

IMHO beauty is solely in the eye of the beholder. Even the African pigmy or the Australian aborigine will find others of their tribe to be beautiful.

Yes Biswa, I agree

 

[Raji Ram]

Mrs. RR, come on! Let's hear your plain, unvarnished opinion on ICMs!

Dear Biswa Sir,

Our close family circle has ICMs and IRMs too! To tell you frankly, I was only hoping that my son will marry a brahmin girl but was

ready to accept any girl of his choice. But, not all boys and girls fall in love, right? So, we gave him two choices for his final selection.

One of the IRMs was with a Muslim girl and ONLY that guy converted to Islam. Other ICM ceremonies were in Iyer style. Those

girls are all vegetarians one girl even learnt brahmin dialect! :thumb:

Those who married Christians had two weddings - one in the Church and one in Iyer style - of course in the U S of A.

As long as the couple are happy and mingle with the family members with affection, it is OK!!

 

[biswa]

Thank RR ji. Now it is on the record.

 

[Raji Ram]

Why only now, Biswa Sir? All along, I have been writing that once a non brahmin girl enters a brahmin family, she has to be considered a brahmin.

My cousin's son married a Thai girl and she is named 'Srividhya' and follows brahmin customs and traditions, including wearing a nine yards saree,

whenever necessary! In fact, I wish to stitch a 'two minutes madisAr' for her, the next time she visits India.

P.S: Link for 'two mt madisAr': http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/chit-chat/10725-ideas-ideas-43.html#post218825

 

[sarang]

This is permitted by smritis as well. Anyway smrits can be modified to suit the time and location.

So the possible solution might be to accept all the Hindu girls who marry brahmin boys as brahmins and save the community!

 

[biswa]

So when people say Tambrahms becoming extinct, what are they talking about? The people actually dying out and their genes disappearing from the gene pool? The erosion of certain traditions, madisaar wearing etc. etc.? Or the loss of the caste position on the totem pole?

 

[sravna]

So when people say Tambrahms becoming extinct, what are they talking about? The people actually dying out and their genes disappearing from the gene pool? The erosion of certain traditions, madisaar wearing etc. etc.? Or the loss of the caste position on the totem pole?

Dear Biswa,

I think to many it is not the loss of caste position but more real concerns. One is primarily talking of the genes disappearing. That implies that their tradition will automatically be not practiced.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Biswa,

I think to many it is not the loss of caste position but more real concerns. One is primarily talking of the genes disappearing. That implies that their tradition will automatically be not practiced.

Dear Sir,

If Levis jeans are a bad fit, try Lee. If that is also bad, try Tommy. Still bad, try Ralph Lauren. Yet bad, try Prada or some such. Surely this world has a pair of jeans for everyone!! Creation won't disappear.

When we gave an ad for our house for rent, we said we need veggies of any caste. Surprisingly, most of the 'vegetarians' who responded were *not* brahmins. Many were North indians too. Churn is a constant. We must change and mold with the times.

 

[renuka]

Why only now, Biswa Sir? All along, I have been writing that once a non brahmin girl enters a brahmin family, she has to be considered a brahmin.

My cousin's son married a Thai girl and she is named 'Srividhya' and follows brahmin customs and traditions, including wearing a nine yards saree,

whenever necessary! In fact, I wish to stitch a 'two minutes madisAr' for her, the next time she visits India.

P.S: Link for 'two mt madisAr': http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/chit-chat/10725-ideas-ideas-43.html#post218825

Dear RR ji,

That is why it is not easy to have an IC marriage or an Inter Racial Marriage for a girl if the guys family wants to hold on to culture and tradition.

Its not easy to become another clan...what ever said and done..we are individuals first only then we are a wife to anyone.

So that is why during viewing I did not accept mappillais that had traditional looking mothers cos that spells disaster..cos they would expect the bride to be traditional like their family.

But even then why should we adopt any other person's style of dressing or lifestyle and lets other impose their culture on us?

Its up to us to do what we feel want and not to just please the whole world.

So the best to avoid any of such problems is to marry your own type or marry a person who thinks like us.

I can never imagine tying a saree the style of a community that I do not belong too or adopt a new name ....no way man!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Renu,

There exist some IR couples who follow their own culture even after their marriage. One of our friends are Xtian guy + brahmin lady.

Each of them visit their own temple and it was probably a 'deal' before marriage! They have two sons and each of them is with one parent!

But they find it difficult to get a suitable match, just like the Tambram guys! :sad:

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Why only now, Biswa Sir? All along, I have been writing that once a non brahmin girl enters a brahmin family, she has to be considered a brahmin.

My cousin's son married a Thai girl and she is named 'Srividhya' and follows brahmin customs and traditions, including wearing a nine yards saree,

whenever necessary! In fact, I wish to stitch a 'two minutes madisAr' for her, the next time she visits India.

P.S: Link for 'two mt madisAr': http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/chit-chat/10725-ideas-ideas-43.html#post218825

Very well said. Brahmin boys must be encouraged to marry NB girls to have wider acceptance of Brahmins in other communities.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

there is a post here somewhere that iyers are smarthas, implying, as i understand it, that we were such since times immemorial.

it would be interesting to know that iyers becamse smarthas only about 500 years ago, with the takeover of tamil nadu by the vijayanagar empire. along with it, came large scale migration of telugu/tamil speaking brahmins, naickers and a whole slew of other castes.



It is said Smartha Sect was formed in the first century AD in Kashmir. Subsequently, these Smarthas have migrated to all parts of India. Therefore, the Telugu and Kannada Smarthas might have originally migrated from North.



the tamil speaking brahmins, hitched their chariots to the upper hand wielding telugu brahmins, renounced the agama tradition, and adopted smartha customs and all this happened only a few hundred years ago, when we weaned ourselves from tamildom.


Before adopting Smartha customs, what was the samprayadaya of Tamil Brahmins?



which might also explain why the doyens of modern carnatic music, with court patronage, turned out to be telugu brahmins, versed in telugu sanskrit, rather than the ancient language of the land, viz tamil.


Even during 12th/13th century, Tamil Nadu had Tamil Trinity; Muthuthandavar, Arunachala Kavi and Marimutha Pillai. MK constructed a Manimandapam for them.

Only Thiagaraja was a Telugu speaking Brahmin. Others like Muthuswamy Dikshithar, Shayama Shastri, Gopalakrishna Bharathi, Papanasam Sivan, Patnam Subramania Iyer, Koteeswara Iyer etc. were all Tamil speaking brahmins.

Tamizh Thatha U V Swaminatha Iyer started his career as Carnatic Musician and refused to learn Telugu.

 

[renuka]

Very well said. Brahmin boys must be encouraged to marry NB girls to have wider acceptance of Brahmins in other communities.

Parents of the girls might not mind cos that way they can save on dowry..NBs are known to give high dowry when their daughters get married within the same community.

So the NB parents can save money and get their daughter married to a Brahmin boy cos different community means no need for dowry.. but get their sons married to Non Brahmin girls to get dowry..that way they can become richer!LOL

Brahmin and Non Brahmin union would be fun..fusion of Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu!LOL

 

[renuka]

Very well said. Brahmin boys must be encouraged to marry NB girls to have wider acceptance of Brahmins in other communities.

BTW ancestors of Tamil Brahmins did not mind taking other communities as their wives cos otherwise how do you explain that the Brahmin of every state looks very much like the people of their own state?

So that shows that the Brahmin community all over India had intermingled with all other communities in the past..DNA would show up who is who..for all we know the Non Brahmin neighbour of a TB in TN could be his/her 7th cousin twice removed.

 

[tbs]

hi renu,

Brahmin and Non Brahmin union would be fun..fusion of Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu!LOL


i like it.....with small correction......BHARATANATYAM WITH DAPANKUTTU.....idhu eppadi irukku...lol

 

[renuka]

hi renu,



i like it.....with small correction......BHARATANATYAM WITH DAPANKUTTU.....idhu eppadi irukku...lol

You see TBS garu..if its just Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu all types of TBs can join it..the moment you drag in Bharatnatyam..Iyengars might not join cos they wont be worshiping Nataraja before starting Dance!LOL

BTW Lord Shiva seems to be the most intelligent and active of the Trimurtis..Brahma is always sleeping..Vishnu also is always lying on Adishesha but Lord Shiva is busy teaching Maheswara Sutrani.

 

[sarang]

You are not correct. Worship of other devatas is not totally banned as long as the worship is made to the antaratma of the devata. So no problem.

Iyengars might not join cos they wont be worshiping Nataraja before starting Dance!LOL

 

[sarang]

You are missing the intent; the girls will become brahmins and her parents and community may disown her. Other communities are more strict.

Very well said. Brahmin boys must be encouraged to marry NB girls to have wider acceptance of Brahmins in other communities.

 

[Raji Ram]

Very well said. Brahmin boys must be encouraged to marry NB girls to have wider acceptance of Brahmins in other communities.

I will never 'encourage' brahmin boys to marry from other community / religion! The problem now is that many brahmin girls opt to marry outside

the community and boys find it hard to get a match in their own community. Hence this suggestion to the parents to 'accept' the NB d i l as brahmin!

 

[renuka]

I will never 'encourage' brahmin boys to marry from other community / religion!

True RR ji,

I fully agree with you..read the other thread where I wrote why I feel a TB should only marry a TB.

 

[Raji Ram]

True RR ji,

I fully agree with you..read the other thread where I wrote why I feel a TB should only marry a TB.

Dear Renu,

To be more specific Tambrams settled in North India better marry those who have settled in North India!

The Tambram girls from Mumbai / Delhi / Kolkata may not get good matches from Sing. Chennai / Kerala / Karnataka!! :sad:

I find the American girls and boys who marry Tambrams, more flexible! :lol:

 

[renuka]

The Tambram girls from Mumbai / Delhi / Kolkata may not get good matches from Sing. Chennai / Kerala / Karnataka!! :sad:

RR ji,

Then let the TB girls of Kolkatta marry Bengali Non Brahmin guys.

Bengalis are known for their intellect and might make good partners to TB gals from Kolkatta or even anywhere else in the world.

I am sure many TB girls would find Bengali guys interesting.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Tambrams failed to adapt or blend in to the prevailing Saivite culture in TN, they adopted an aura of exclusivity. Iyers and Iyengars are now Saivites and Vaishnavites respectively, but the numbers are too low to prevent extinction. Also, Tambrams developed an existential crisis after the success of a bearded man's movement. They became so demotivated even to produce offspring. Lack of brides and grooms led to quite some inbreeding. This resulted in more girls and less boys. Consequently, the girls started marrying outside the caste thus contributing to erosion of numbers.

Kerala Brahmins didn't beget enough progeny for reasons unknown. Even if extinction is imminent, it has to be accepted as cold reality. Life will still move on.

 

[sravna]

IC/IR marriages are something that would be prevalent and even be the norm in the future. If at all any community has the inner strength to resist it in TN, I think it is the Tambrahm community. Tambrahm community should strive for that as the resolve of a 3 million strong community is good enough for that. It is however necessary that the community project the right image and be seen as friendly with the other communities and working for the benefit of the society.