Tambrahms to become extinct by 2035

[vgane]

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IC/IR marriages are something that would be prevalent and even be the norm in the future. If at all any community has the inner strength to resist it in TN, I think it is the Tambrahm community. Tambrahm community should strive for that as the resolve of a 3 million strong community is good enough for that. It is however necessary that the community project the right image and be seen as friendly with the other communities and working for the benefit of the society.

Dear Shri Sravna,

The community should understand that their survival is under threat and together we have to surmount this..Especially youngsters...I would suggest that the community associations as a first steps take copies of the pdf article and circulate to each of the families

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Parents of the girls might not mind cos that way they can save on dowry..NBs are known to give high dowry when their daughters get married within the same community.

So the NB parents can save money and get their daughter married to a Brahmin boy cos different community means no need for dowry.. but get their sons married to Non Brahmin girls to get dowry..that way they can become richer!LOL

Brahmin and Non Brahmin union would be fun..fusion of Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu!LOL

Money is not the criteria. It can be earned.

By marrying NB girls, brahmins can create new breed. Generally, NBs give lot of respect to Religion. That respect can be inducted into Brahmin DNA if IC marriages between brahmin boys and NB girls are encouraged.

Your comparison of Brahmins and NBs with Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu respectively is in bad taste. There is a separate community called Isai Velllar who promoted classical music right from 12th century onwards. There are also other NB communities who are well versed in Carnatic Music.

 

[tks]

Originally Posted by CHANDRU1849
Does Vedic tradition apply to all sections of Hindus?



Traditions do not 'apply' like a law in my understanding but evolve to portray the underlying significance of a teaching. My question to you is about the profound significance if any of wearing something in our forehead regardless of how it is done (horizantal or vertical or a dot)?

Chandru1849

Since you had many statements with authority about Namam etc I asked you a question. You have not answered it which leads me to think you have no answer to basic questions.

You may be a knowledgeable person but reading your messages here and elsewhere make me conclude that your messages are rooted in ignorance. Your messages come across as looking to manufacture issues - silly posts about various Iyer subsects, diversity of Namams on the forehead, and starting a thread that had to be closed right away, total lack of understanding of what freedom of expression means to just name a few.


The requirements to become a member here are just to have a valid email address and an agreement to follow the basic rules of the forum. So members of any faith are welcome here from what I have witnessed..

Without revealing personally identifiable information (PII) it is good etiquette to declare if one is not of Hindu faith in a forum like this. If you are a Muslim or Christian or whatever else you will still be welcome by the members with open arms but no one likes Trojans.

Based on your messages intending to divide (and did not succeed) I want you to know that your messages reflect those of a Trojan to me.

I am against Trojans whether it is in software or in forums.

The ball is in your court on your own volition to reveal your faith without revealing PII ..

Regards

 

[ashwin_ash]

Money is not the criteria. It can be earned.

By marrying NB girls, brahmins can create new breed. Generally, NBs give lot of respect to Religion. That respect can be inducted into Brahmin DNA if IC marriages between brahmin boys and NB girls are encouraged.

Your comparison of Brahmins and NBs with Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu respectively is in bad taste. There is a separate community called Isai Velllar who promoted classical music right from 12th century onwards. There are also other NB communities who are well versed in Carnatic Music.

It is in extremely poor taste to equate castes other than Brahmins with only dapankuthu. T Brindha, T Muktha, Kanchipuram Naina Pillai, Madurai Somu (Vellalar), M S Subbulakshmi, Swathi Thirunal Rama Varma, Prince Rama Varma who is now one of the best Carnatic musicians and many others were some of the finest exponents of Carnatic music, and were *not* Brahmins.

 

[biswa]

Dear Biswa,

I think to many it is not the loss of caste position but more real concerns. One is primarily talking of the genes disappearing. That implies that their tradition will automatically be not practiced.

Mr. Sravna,
I understand the loss of traditions and commiserate. However I strongly question the gene theory. Genes are never lost unless individuals stop procreating. Also, has anyone been able to isolate the gene(s) in question?

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Chandru1849

Since you had many statements with authority about Namam etc I asked you a question. You have not answered it which leads me to think you have no answer to basic questions.

What are those basic questions?


You may be a knowledgeable person but reading your messages here and elsewhere make me conclude that your messages are rooted in ignorance. Your messages come across as looking to manufacture issues - silly posts about various Iyer subsects, diversity of Namams on the forehead, and starting a thread that had to be closed right away, total lack of understanding of what freedom of expression means to just name a few.


If you feel that discussing Iyer sub sects issilly, it is your outlook. I have mentioned several times in various posts thereason for knowing the sub sects of eminent personalities in Iyer community.Once again, I want to tell you that, being an Iyer, I am interested to know thesuccess level of Iyer in various sub sects. If you belong to Iyer community,tell me is it wrong? If not, it is not proper for you to raise such issues.

As told earlier, the message in the thread wasderived from some other thread. The name of the thread and the name of thegentlemen and their blogs were also furnished. Have you not seen? If themessages that are put in the thread new are not in good taste, the earlierthread containing such messages should have been blocked. There were so manycomments. Have you not noticed?


The requirements to become a member here are just to have a valid email address and an agreement to follow the basic rules of the forum. So members of any faith are welcome here from what I have witnessed..


Is it possible to become a member without avalid E-Mail address? I have a valid E-Mail address, and I think I am followingrules stipulated for this forum. Anyhow, I think you are overstepping.


Without revealing personally identifiable information (PII) it is good etiquette to declare if one is not of Hindu faith in a forum like this. If you are a Muslim or Christian or whatever else you will still be welcome by the members with open arms but no one likes Trojans.

Not clear. This does not pertain to me, since Iam not a non-Hindu. You should have known my background from my name itself.If not, I am helpless. There is no necessity to give false information.Don't assess others based on your outlook.

Based on your messages intending to divide (and did not succeed) I want you to know that your messages reflect those of a Trojan to me.

I presume the word "messages intending todivide" relates to Iyers and Iyengars. If so, my messages, which youimagine dividing in nature, were based on certain incidents happened during myemployment. I don't think Brahmins will blindly follow anything withoutapplying mind. You are underestimating Brahmins. If messages that reflectcertain facts are seen as Trojans by you, it is your outlook. I cannot help it.


I am against Trojans whether it is in software or in forums.

I gave my answer as above.


The ball is in your court on your own volitionto reveal your faith without revealing PII ..

By this time, you should have known my identity.If not, it is not my fault.

I should have ignored your post. To put an endto your further imaginations about me, I replied as above.


Good Night

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Sravna,
I understand the loss of traditions and commiserate. However I strongly question the gene theory. Genes are never lost unless individuals stop procreating. Also, has anyone been able to isolate the gene(s) in question?

I agree with your post. I do not agree that there is separate "Brahmin" Gene. Then it has to have "TB gene", going down to "TB gene from TN". or say "TN gene from TN with modern outlook". It makes a mockery of gene theory.

 

[sravna]

Mr. Sravna,
I understand the loss of traditions and commiserate. However I strongly question the gene theory. Genes are never lost unless individuals stop procreating. Also, has anyone been able to isolate the gene(s) in question?

Dear Biswa,

There are certain features or characteristics that mark any group. It may be the white skin or such physical features that are readily evident. If there is a gene for the skin color, then why not the mental traits. Brahmins for example, are by nature known to be less aggressive. This is something that is generally true. The genes may not have been isolated but that there are natural traits common to brahmins, in my opinion is true.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prasad Sir,

Do you still have doubts about 'gene theory'? Last year, we came across a brahmin lady in forum, who after her divorce from brahmin husband

begot a son with 'white gene', using modern methods? She wished to perform the upanayanam of her son.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sravana Sir,

Generally brahmins are nick-named 'thayir sAdham' for their less aggressive nature.

So, the IC / IR weddings are likely to add 'veeram' to the next generation? :lol:

 

[renuka]

Your comparison of Brahmins and NBs with Carnatic Music and Dapankuttu respectively is in bad taste. .

My dear Chandru ji..what is wrong with Dapankuttu music that you feel my comparison is in bad taste?LOL

That means you have some sort of "prejudice' about Dapankuttu and do not think its good enough.

I am such a Dapankuttu fan....only 2 types of traditional music want to make me get up and dance:

1)Dapankuttu

2)Bhangra


All the others like Carnatic music etc make me sleep!


So you see I feel my comparison is fine..cos Dapankuttu is a highly energetic dance and music that totally calls out "HERE I AM..ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANE"

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravana Sir,

Generally brahmins are nick-named 'thayir sAdham' for their less aggressive nature.

So, the IC / IR weddings are likely to add 'veeram' to the next generation? :lol:

Dear Smt RR,

I deliberately did not add "more intelligent" when I said "less aggressive."

 

[renuka]

Dear Chandru ji,

When I read some of you post here I am starting to wonder about a lot of things.

Firstly you seem strongly Shaivite..that is fine as long you do not sow seeds of discord trying to put down Vaishnavas.

Then you seem to be all out for intercaste marriage with NB of the Shaiva kind..I find this a bit weird cos I am yet to see a TB talk this much about intercaste marriage of the TB and NB kind..that too a TB from India.

Then you sort of feel me comparing NB wit Dapankuttu and TB with Carnatic Music in bad taste.

BTW I am a Non Brahmin myself and as far as I know many NBs like Dapankuttu.

But I have noted that the so called educated lot of any community always try to project that they are only in for classy music.

I know a person who is an expert in Carnatic music and also a fan of all different types of music in this world. A person who values music just sees it as Sapta Swaras..only those who have a per formed notion try to project an image of class and taste.

So you see it kind of seemed that you felt "offended" by me equating Dapankuttu with Non Brahmins.

I dont know yaar..but somehow your posts are a kind of confusing.

You talk about getting intercaste marriage with NB to get the NB gene into the TBs to create a new breed.

I was thinking "what????"

You see I am starting to wonder if there is hidden agenda cos many others from other religions think that they should dilute the "TB gene" by intercaste marriage.

Technically I feel marriage is always better among people of the same background,education and mind set and in India this often translates as being from the same caste.

Those of us who are abroad can take partners from different communities cos our mind set is different due to exposure to different lifestyles.

So Chandru ji..now its up to you to actually tell me.."what is it are you trying to arrive at?"

I am not accusing you of anything but it just seems a little unusual thats all.

 

[Raji Ram]

......... I deliberately did not add "more intelligent" when I said "less aggressive."

So nice of you, Sir!

Otherwise, it would have started the 'Third world war' here!!

 

[biswa]

Dear Biswa,

There are certain features or characteristics that mark any group. It may be the white skin or such physical features that are readily evident. If there is a gene for the skin color, then why not the mental traits. Brahmins for example, are by nature known to be less aggressive. This is something that is generally true. The genes may not have been isolated but that there are natural traits common to brahmins, in my opinion is true.

Sravnaji,

Let me counter your assertion with some obvious examples. Prashurama, Dronacharya and Chanakya caused the obliteration of entire kingdoms and thousands of people. They may have been justified in their actions (not being debated here), but clearly they were aggressive and driven by revenge.

In this very forum Mrs RR and others have presented many examples of aggressive and arrogant individuals (mostly women ) There are frequent instances of aggressive and predatory behavior exhibited by forum members.

I myself encounter difficult and aggressive people every day. It does not appear that stubbornness, arrogance and aggressiveness are more or less present in a certain group. They seem to be uniformly distributed among humans.

 

[biswa]

Dear Biswa,

There are certain features or characteristics that mark any group. It may be the white skin or such physical features that are readily evident. If there is a gene for the skin color, then why not the mental traits. Brahmins for example, are by nature known to be less aggressive. This is something that is generally true. The genes may not have been isolated but that there are natural traits common to brahmins, in my opinion is true.

So are you saying "white skin" is a prerogative of a particular caste or not? If so maybe all forum members should post their real pics so that we can know at which point of the spectrum the caste line should be drawn. It is really unbecoming to talk about skin color when no person could do anything to deserve it.

 

[sravna]

Sravnaji,

Let me counter your assertion with some obvious examples. Prashurama, Dronacharya and Chanakya caused the obliteration of entire kingdoms and thousands of people. They may have been justified in their actions (not being debated here), but clearly they were aggressive and driven by revenge.

In this very forum Mrs RR and others have presented many examples of aggressive and arrogant individuals (mostly women ) There are frequent instances of aggressive and predatory behavior exhibited by forum members.

I myself encounter difficult and aggressive people every day. It does not appear that stubbornness, arrogance and aggressiveness are more or less present in a certain group. They seem to be uniformly distributed among humans.

Dear Biswa,

I am not presenting my view as the right view. It is only based on my limited experience and knowledge. In my experience I have observed brahmins to be less aggressive. As you point out your experience is different.

 

[Raji Ram]

........... In this very forum Mrs RR and others have presented many examples of aggressive and arrogant individuals (mostly women ) ............ .

Dear Biswa Sir!

Brahmin girls are becoming arrogant (= having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities) because of their

financial independence. But they are NOT aggressive (= ready or likely to attack or confront; characterized by or resulting from aggression.)!

 

[sravna]

So are you saying "white skin" is a prerogative of a particular caste or not? If so maybe all forum members should post their real pics so that we can know at which point of the spectrum the caste line should be drawn. It is really unbecoming to talk about skin color when no person could do anything to deserve it.

Dear Biswa,

I am not relating the color of the skin to caste. I am just saying that skin color is inherited.

 

[Raji Ram]

Skin color:

Fair skin is admired (hence so many fairness creams in the market!) because less than 50% of brahmins have it, imho!

Many couples exist as 'eLLum arisiyum kalandha mAdhiri'! I have seen fair skinned parents (both) having brown skinned kids!

 

[vgane]

Chandru1849

I presume the word "messages intending todivide" relates to Iyers and Iyengars. If so, my messages, which you imagine dividing in nature, were based on certain incidents happened during my employment. I don't think Brahmins will blindly follow anything without applying mind. You are underestimating Brahmins. If messages that reflect certain facts are seen as Trojans by you, it is your outlook. I cannot help it.

Dear Shri Chandru,

You cannot bring your personal prejudices to malign Iyengars...I too an Iyer..I have worked closely with many Iyengars...None of what you said is true..Also this forum is to create unity in diversity..There are so many Brahmin sects and sub sects..Do not sow seeds of hatred in this forum

 

[CHANDRU1849]

It is in extremely poor taste to equate castes other than Brahmins with only dapankuthu. T Brindha, T Muktha, Kanchipuram Naina Pillai, Madurai Somu (Vellalar), M S Subbulakshmi, Swathi Thirunal Rama Varma, Prince Rama Varma who is now one of the best Carnatic musicians and many others were some of the finest exponents of Carnatic music, and were *not* Brahmins.

Your reply should have been to Renukaji and TBS and not me. I endorse your views. Carnatic Music is not exclusive to Brahmins only.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Shri Chandru,

You cannot bring your personal prejudices to malign Iyengars...I too an Iyer..I have worked closely with many Iyengars...None of what you said is true..Also this forum is to create unity in diversity..There are so many Brahmin sects and sub sects..Do not sow seeds of hatred in this forum

Please read my reply carefully. I didn't say it relates to me; I said 'during my employment'. I have no personal prejudices against anybody and I have lot of friends from all communities.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

My dear Chandru ji..what is wrong with Dapankuttu music that you feel my comparison is in bad taste?LOL

That means you have some sort of "prejudice' about Dapankuttu and do not think its good enough.


I am such a Dapankuttu fan....only 2 types of traditional music want to make me get up and dance:

1)Dapankuttu

2)Bhangra


All the others like Carnatic music etc make me sleep!


So you see I feel my comparison is fine..cos Dapankuttu is a highly energetic dance and music that totally calls out "HERE I AM..ROCK YOU LIKE A HURRICANE"

I never said Dapankuttu is inferior. It is your assumption. I questioned only the comparison. Every music has its own appeal and charm. Music has no religion, caste, creed, economic status etc.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Chandru ji,

When I read some of you post here I am starting to wonder about a lot of things.

Firstly you seem strongly Shaivite..that is fine as long you do not sow seeds of discord trying to put down Vaishnavas.

Then you seem to be all out for intercaste marriage with NB of the Shaiva kind..I find this a bit weird cos I am yet to see a TB talk this much about intercaste marriage of the TB and NB kind..that too a TB from India.

Then you sort of feel me comparing NB wit Dapankuttu and TB with Carnatic Music in bad taste.

BTW I am a Non Brahmin myself and as far as I know many NBs like Dapankuttu.

But I have noted that the so called educated lot of any community always try to project that they are only in for classy music.

I know a person who is an expert in Carnatic music and also a fan of all different types of music in this world. A person who values music just sees it as Sapta Swaras..only those who have a per formed notion try to project an image of class and taste.

So you see it kind of seemed that you felt "offended" by me equating Dapankuttu with Non Brahmins.

I dont know yaar..but somehow your posts are a kind of confusing.

You talk about getting intercaste marriage with NB to get the NB gene into the TBs to create a new breed.

I was thinking "what????"

You see I am starting to wonder if there is hidden agenda cos many others from other religions think that they should dilute the "TB gene" by intercaste marriage.

Technically I feel marriage is always better among people of the same background,education and mind set and in India this often translates as being from the same caste.

Those of us who are abroad can take partners from different communities cos our mind set is different due to exposure to different lifestyles.

So Chandru ji..now its up to you to actually tell me.."what is it are you trying to arrive at?"

I am not accusing you of anything but it just seems a little unusual thats all.

I am not a strong Saivite. I belong to Iyer community. My perception is that if religion is a major role, then those who have similar views, worship pattern etc. will have easy compatibility.

You only compare Carnatic Music and Dappankuttu. Probably, you have a feeling that Carnatic Music relates to B and Dappankuttu belongs to NB for which I already gave my reply and I don't think so.

There is a general feeling that children born out of B and NB marriages are intelligent.