Tambrahms to become extinct by 2035

[sravna]

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Dear Shri Sravna,

The community should understand that their survival is under threat and together we have to surmount this..Especially youngsters...I would suggest that the community associations as a first steps take copies of the pdf article and circulate to each of the families

Dear Shri Vgane,

You are right. Each and every family should be made aware that the future of the community is at stake and why it is important to prevent that from happening. I feel it will be a prolonged effort and if the right steps are taken, the community should be receptive.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Your reply should have been to Renukaji and TBS and not me. I endorse your views. Carnatic Music is not exclusive to Brahmins only.

It is in extremely poor taste to equate castes other than Brahmins with only dapankuthu. T Brindha, T Muktha, Kanchipuram Naina Pillai, Madurai Somu (Vellalar), M S Subbulakshmi, Swathi Thirunal Rama Varma, Prince Rama Varma who is now one of the best Carnatic musicians and many others were some of the finest exponents of Carnatic music, and were *not* Brahmins.
Mr Chandru,

My observations were *not* directed towards you. As someone whose father was a tenant in MS' home as a child, I've heard many tales about music. There is no visible B-NB divide in Carnatic music.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

It is in extremely poor taste to equate castes other than Brahmins with only dapankuthu. T Brindha, T Muktha, Kanchipuram Naina Pillai, Madurai Somu (Vellalar), M S Subbulakshmi, Swathi Thirunal Rama Varma, Prince Rama Varma who is now one of the best Carnatic musicians and many others were some of the finest exponents of Carnatic music, and were *not* Brahmins.
Mr Chandru,

My observations were *not* directed towards you. As someone whose father was a tenant in MS' home as a child, I've heard many tales about music. There is no visible B-NB divide in Carnatic music.

I feel if the reply is exactly in opposite direction, such reply may be directed to the concerned person only. Such action will avoid unnecessary misunderstanding.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Shri Vgane,

You are right. Each and every family should be made aware that the future of the community is at stake and why it is important to prevent that from happening. I feel it will be a prolonged effort and if the right steps are taken, the community should be receptive.

Dear Sir,

What happens when a community/ species goes extinct? The Arawak, Taino, and other native peoples of Central and South America went extinct. There was no significant societal upheaval. As for animals, the dodo became extinct, so did many other animals. It did not affect the ecological balance much.

Just my 2-cents.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sir,

What happens when a community/ species goes extinct? The Arawak, Taino, and other native peoples of Central and South America went extinct. There was no significant societal upheaval. As for animals, the dodo became extinct, so did many other animals. It did not affect the ecological balance much.

Just my 2-cents.

Dear Ash,

Personally I would not prefer a world that is a homogeneous. My personal preferences apart, I think the brahmins have something that is different and more importantly something useful to offer to others. Should that not be kept intact if a balance in perspectives is to be maintained?It is that balance that helps the world to not slip to extremist positions which is patently dangerous.

The spiritual perspective of the brahmins is an effective counter to the growing materialism and I think the world now needs that spiritual perspective more than ever? The tambrahm community which is representative of such spirituality for the above reason has to survive. Thus there is more than a selfish motive here.

 

[krish44]

Dear Ash,

Personally I would not prefer a world that is a homogeneous. My personal preferences apart, I think the brahmins have something that is different and more importantly something useful to offer to others. Should that not be kept intact if a balance in perspectives is to be maintained?It is that balance that helps the world to not slip to extremist positions which is patently dangerous.

The spiritual perspective of the brahmins is an effective counter to the growing materialism and I think the world now needs that spiritual perspective more than ever? The tambrahm community which is representative of such spirituality for the above reason has to survive. Thus there is more than a selfish motive here.

one hundred plus brahmins who went to serve mahesh yogi foundation to spread spirituality in US vanished in thin air many of them it is learnt are working in restaurnts to make a living. Three cheers to spirituality. brahmin style

 

[sravna]

one hundred plus brahmins who went to serve mahesh yogi foundation to spread spirituality in US vanished in thin air many of them it is learnt are working in restaurnts to make a living. Three cheers to spirituality. brahmin style

The problem is that there is not enough awakening. One hundred plus is a drop.If 1 million plus have the same realization, the result would be different.

 

[auh]

...
There is a general feeling that children born out of B and NB marriages are intelligent.

It maybe your feeling in general, but it cannot be a "general feeling", if I may say so.

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad Sir,

Do you still have doubts about 'gene theory'? Last year, we came across a brahmin lady in forum, who after her divorce from brahmin husband

begot a son with 'white gene', using modern methods? She wished to perform the upanayanam of her son.

lol

 

[dvrrajakumar]

With the present population explosion among Muslims you will find like this.
Muslims:1947-1 Cr; 2013: 23 Cr; 2020:32.08 Cr.; 2030:51.58 Cr.; 2060:214.52 Cr
Non-Muslims:1947-34 Cr; 2013:101 Cr; 2020:113.36; 2030:133.69 Cr; 2060:219.30

Probably those below 20 years of Non Muslims today will find it extremely difficult for survival. Many of us would have been born into Muslim family.

Prof.D.V.R.Rajakumar

 

[sangom]

Dear Ash,

Personally I would not prefer a world that is a homogeneous. My personal preferences apart, I think the brahmins have something that is different and more importantly something useful to offer to others. Should that not be kept intact if a balance in perspectives is to be maintained?It is that balance that helps the world to not slip to extremist positions which is patently dangerous.

The spiritual perspective of the brahmins is an effective counter to the growing materialism and I think the world now needs that spiritual perspective more than ever? The tambrahm community which is representative of such spirituality for the above reason has to survive. Thus there is more than a selfish motive here.

Dear Shri Sravna,

Both the points contained in the above post, are, not factual, imo.

That "the brahmins have something that is different and more importantly something useful to offer to others." is a myth. Brahmins or the brAhmaNa varna somehow came to be regarded as the "highest class or group of people" in a certain social set-up. They also became, by force of circumstances, the "intermediaries" between a godhead which was more perceived to lie outside of the living devotee, rather than being within that devotee himself (I am knowingly omitting the 'herself' part, because the brAhmaNa religion did not look upon woman as anything more than a chattel of the male.).

Having thus become the crux of the society, somehow, all the efforts of the brAhmaNas have been, historically, to secrete whatever knowledge they had and not to disseminate it. Such an effort can be justified because historically, the brAhmaNas (at least the vast majority of them) had no other skill except, the knowledge and the use of the scriptures to pose themselves as intermediaried between Man and his (foolishly imagined) external god.

For the last two centuries or so, most brAhmaNas have virtually dissociated themselves from learning those scriptures, understanding those and using such skill and knowledge to eke out a living as intermediaries between Man & god. The "brahmins" today, are mostly an "advantaged" labour class (not withstanding the usual grumblings about the reservation system) which will move anywhere where there is a chance to make more money and live a life full of maximum materialistic comforts.

Hence, such a brahmin class has nothing unique left with itself, which can be offered to others as useful.

By the same token, the tambrahm or the extended brahmin class in India does not any longer represent anything spiritual, other than the bottled variety which is favoured even by some temple priests and vaadhyars, etc., not to speak of the ordinary brahmins. The good thing today is that our scriptures and the secret knowledge of brahmins is no longer secret and can be accessed by any one anywhere in the world.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Let me start with the assumption that you have provided the facts. But as a brahmin myself I am not able to reconcile them with my own attitude and attitude of some other brahmins I know. Let me talk my personal experiences. Even a decade ago I had no knowledge about our tradition and culture and I was one of the brahmins you say whose main aim was to acquire a good job, earn good salary and live comfortably.

But by accident I got an introduction to our scriptures , and it immediately struck a chord in me. The depth of the philosophy made me to really think about issues in more than a superficial way. The more I read the scriptures the more I became convinced of its truths. Slowly I got weaned away from the materialistic aspirations and wanted to lead a really meaningful life.

Many people get distracted from the essence of the scriptures by side issues, especially how the scriptures were interpreted and practiced by some brahmins. I think the trick is to ignore such distractions and try to understand what the real import of the scriptures is.

I agree there are many now, whose main aim is to make more and more money but I am of the conviction that the lineage of such people will ensure that they will be in a position to grasp the significance of their culture if they are rightly exposed to it.

I will strongly deny that our scriptures are empty and were used by brahmins mainly for securing and advancing their interests. Just as in the present , in the past too there would have been well meaning brahmins.

I respect your knowledge of scriptures but you baffle me when you write something that do not show them in good light.

 

[prasad1]

sravnaji,
I do not think that you would say that Brahmins are superior to others because of this birth. But your writing increasingly conveys that intent. None of us can claim superiority in spiritualness because of our birth.

Our scriptures shows us that spirituality of individual is due to their own effort, and any body can reach any spiritual height they try.

 

[sravna]

sravnaji,
I do not think that you would say that Brahmins are superior to others because of this birth. But your writing increasingly conveys that intent. None of us can claim superiority in spiritualness because of our birth.

Our scriptures shows us that spirituality of individual is due to their own effort, and any body can reach any spiritual height they try.

Dear Prasad,

Since I am responding to the question whether brahmins have anything unique or useful to offer, my reply may sound that way. After all practicing spirituality for many millenia would definitely put them in a position of advantage to offer that expertise for the benefit of the society. As a matter of fact there may be brahmins who find spirituality meaningless and persons who are not brahmins being highly spiritual. So I agree with you on that.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Shri Sravna,

Both the points contained in the above post, are, not factual, imo.

That "the brahmins have something that is different and more importantly something useful to offer to others." is a myth. Brahmins or the brAhmaNa varna somehow came to be regarded as the "highest class or group of people" in a certain social set-up. They also became, by force of circumstances, the "intermediaries" between a godhead which was more perceived to lie outside of the living devotee, rather than being within that devotee himself (I am knowingly omitting the 'herself' part, because the brAhmaNa religion did not look upon woman as anything more than a chattel of the male.).

Having thus become the crux of the society, somehow, all the efforts of the brAhmaNas have been, historically, to secrete whatever knowledge they had and not to disseminate it. Such an effort can be justified because historically, the brAhmaNas (at least the vast majority of them) had no other skill except, the knowledge and the use of the scriptures to pose themselves as intermediaried between Man and his (foolishly imagined) external god.

For the last two centuries or so, most brAhmaNas have virtually dissociated themselves from learning those scriptures, understanding those and using such skill and knowledge to eke out a living as intermediaries between Man & god. The "brahmins" today, are mostly an "advantaged" labour class (not withstanding the usual grumblings about the reservation system) which will move anywhere where there is a chance to make more money and live a life full of maximum materialistic comforts.

Hence, such a brahmin class has nothing unique left with itself, which can be offered to others as useful.

By the same token, the tambrahm or the extended brahmin class in India does not any longer represent anything spiritual, other than the bottled variety which is favoured even by some temple priests and vaadhyars, etc., not to speak of the ordinary brahmins. The good thing today is that our scriptures and the secret knowledge of brahmins is no longer secret and can be accessed by any one anywhere in the world.

What do we gain by learning/ reading the scriptures? One might as well relax with a good novel. Scriptures provide an insight into spirituality, but will that provide us our salaries? People with lots of money to spare can probably afford to spend their lives mastering the scriptures, but of what use is it to man who is destined to go back to the earth someday? Even many animals lead fulfilling lives, I don't think they read the scriptures.

 

[tbs]

What do we gain by learning/ reading the scriptures? One might as well relax with a good novel. Scriptures provide an insight into spirituality, but will that provide us our salaries? People with lots of money to spare can probably afford to spend their lives mastering the scriptures, but of what use is it to man who is destined to go back to the earth someday? Even many animals lead fulfilling lives, I don't think they read the scriptures.

hi

aahara nidra bhaya maithunam ca saamanyamethath pasubir naraaanam................


saahitya sangita kalaa vihinaha.....saakshath pasu puccha vishaana hinaha.....trunam na khadati jeevamanaha tad bhagadeyam

pasubir naraanaam.....

 

[sravna]

What do we gain by learning/ reading the scriptures? One might as well relax with a good novel. Scriptures provide an insight into spirituality, but will that provide us our salaries? People with lots of money to spare can probably afford to spend their lives mastering the scriptures, but of what use is it to man who is destined to go back to the earth someday? Even many animals lead fulfilling lives, I don't think they read the scriptures.

Dear Ash,

Your thinking changes when you read and understand the truth in the scriptures. I have led my life both without the knowledge of scriptures and later knowing what they say. The quality of your life is so much different which money can never provide. I am not saying to totally shun money but money only to the extent that it gives you the day to day requirements of this world. Beyond that it is a bane which people don't even recognize.

 

[prasad1]

Your thinking changes when you read and understand the truth in the scriptures. I have led my life both without the knowledge of scriptures and later knowing what they say. The quality of your life is so much different which money can never provide. I am not saying to totally shun money but money only to the extent that it gives you the day to day requirements of this world. Beyond that it is a bane which people don't even recognize.

I agree that knowledge can change your outlook on life. You do have to have the basic necessities of life like food and shelter, but there is more to life than those basic needs. People who can not fulfill those basic needs may not think beyond them, but people in this site are beyond that point. Most of the discussion is about people like us.

 

[sravna]

I agree that knowledge can change your outlook on life. You do have to have the basic necessities of life like food and shelter, but there is more to life than those basic needs. People who can not fulfill those basic needs may not think beyond them, but people in this site are beyond that point. Most of the discussion is about people like us.

Dear Prasad,

Yes it is exactly people like us that need to think beyond material comforts and luxuries. Beyond a point your happiness increases much more if you are able to not focus on material aspects

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Sangom,

Let me start with the assumption that you have provided the facts. But as a brahmin myself I am not able to reconcile them with my own attitude and attitude of some other brahmins I know. Let me talk my personal experiences. Even a decade ago I had no knowledge about our tradition and culture and I was one of the brahmins you say whose main aim was to acquire a good job, earn good salary and live comfortably.

But by accident I got an introduction to our scriptures , and it immediately struck a chord in me. The depth of the philosophy made me to really think about issues in more than a superficial way. The more I read the scriptures the more I became convinced of its truths. Slowly I got weaned away from the materialistic aspirations and wanted to lead a really meaningful life.

Many people get distracted from the essence of the scriptures by side issues, especially how the scriptures were interpreted and practiced by some brahmins. I think the trick is to ignore such distractions and try to understand what the real import of the scriptures is.

I agree there are many now, whose main aim is to make more and more money but I am of the conviction that the lineage of such people will ensure that they will be in a position to grasp the significance of their culture if they are rightly exposed to it.

I will strongly deny that our scriptures are empty and were used by brahmins mainly for securing and advancing their interests. Just as in the present , in the past too there would have been well meaning brahmins.

I respect your knowledge of scriptures but you baffle me when you write something that do not show them in good light.

My dear Sravna,

I have absolutely no intention to paint all the brAhmaNas of all time in a bad light. Nor do I think that our scriptures are empty; according to me, our scriptures contain many good points, but if one makes a careful reading you will perhaps appreciate my statement that those scriptures were so designed (tailored) to suit the requirements of some external godheads and the person who was adept at the chanting of those scriptures as a sure-fire intermediary between that god and the devotee who had something or the other to be obtained from that god. (As example, after having propounded "तत् त्वं असि, अहं ब्रह्मास्मि, ब्रह्मैवाहमस्मि, सन्ततँ शिलाभिस्तु लम्बत्याकोशसन्निभम् । तस्यान्ते सुषिरँ सूक्ष्मं । तस्मिन् सर्वं प्रतिष्ठितम् ।" (tat tvaṃ asi, ahaṃ brahmāsmi, brahmaivāhamasmi, santatam̐ śilābhistu lambatyākośasannibham | tasyānte suṣiram̐ sūkṣmaṃ | tasmin sarvaṃ pratiṣṭhitam |), etc., how/why was it that this line of thinking or introspection is mostly overshadowed by worship of one external god or the other?)

Yours may be one of the exceptional cases in which exposure to our scriptures has changed your mind from being more materialistic to more philosophic. But, in general, it is not so among the majority of the brahmins. An acid test is to find out how much percentage of brahmin parents who can afford to give an engineering/medical career to their sons, are willing to opt for sending their son/s to a vedapaathasaala and make them erudite in our scriptures.

The basic difference between our povs is perhpas that I do not consider our scriptures as anything more than the historical records of a people who had lofty thinking about the Ultimate Reality, but who could not, for unknown and unstated reasons, come out boldly and negate the "religious facade" that was given to their findings and conclusions.

Hope this explains.

 

[sravna]

My dear Sravna,

I have absolutely no intention to paint all the brAhmaNas of all time in a bad light. Nor do I think that our scriptures are empty; according to me, our scriptures contain many good points, but if one makes a careful reading you will perhaps appreciate my statement that those scriptures were so designed (tailored) to suit the requirements of some external godheads and the person who was adept at the chanting of those scriptures as a sure-fire intermediary between that god and the devotee who had something or the other to be obtained from that god. (As example, after having propounded "तत् त्वं असि, अहं ब्रह्मास्मि, ब्रह्मैवाहमस्मि, सन्ततँ शिलाभिस्तु लम्बत्याकोशसन्निभम् । तस्यान्ते सुषिरँ सूक्ष्मं । तस्मिन् सर्वं प्रतिष्ठितम् ।" (tat tvaṃ asi, ahaṃ brahmāsmi, brahmaivāhamasmi, santatam̐ śilābhistu lambatyākośasannibham | tasyānte suṣiram̐ sūkṣmaṃ | tasmin sarvaṃ pratiṣṭhitam |), etc., how/why was it that this line of thinking or introspection is mostly overshadowed by worship of one external god or the other?)

Yours may be one of the exceptional cases in which exposure to our scriptures has changed your mind from being more materialistic to more philosophic. But, in general, it is not so among the majority of the brahmins. An acid test is to find out how much percentage of brahmin parents who can afford to give an engineering/medical career to their sons, are willing to opt for sending their son/s to a vedapaathasaala and make them erudite in our scriptures.

The basic difference between our povs is perhpas that I do not consider our scriptures as anything more than the historical records of a people who had lofty thinking about the Ultimate Reality, but who could not, for unknown and unstated reasons, come out boldly and negate the "religious facade" that was given to their findings and conclusions.

Hope this explains.

Dear Shri Sangom,

Thanks a lot for clarifying your position.

 

[sriramraghavan]

Dear Folks - Don't worry. This will never happen. Tamil Brahmins will be alive and kicking in 2035 and I dare say even in 3035!

 

[vgane]

Yours may be one of the exceptional cases in which exposure to our scriptures has changed your mind from being more materialistic to more philosophic. But, in general, it is not so among the majority of the brahmins. An acid test is to find out how much percentage of brahmin parents who can afford to give an engineering/medical career to their sons, are willing to opt for sending their son/s to a vedapaathasaala and make them erudite in our scriptures.

Dear Shri Sangom,

No doubt it is very conducive for learning Vedas in a Veadpata sala under the Guri Sishya parampara...But it does not stop any one from learning the Vedas..For example ex TCS Head honcho Rama Durai or Ex Eicher Head Sandilya

 

[sarang]

As before the tradition may fall into three categories - chanting (strict rigorous long veda patasala schooling), interpretive for the different sidhdhantams (with conventional money making skills and occupations with mixed oriental school type education and a strong exposure/ practice of rituals) and those with a spiritual bent who wish to read and understand the inner meanings).

I believe this was so in the past also; though all brahmins might have gone through a veda parayana school, veda parayana goshti was distinct from the veda interpreting gurus and acharyas, and those in other professions - temple archakas, vaidika karma/ rituals, temple and other administrators and other less religious functions.

This argument that all brahmins always lived by the six professions is not correct and cannot be used to beat today's brahmins. Even brahmins who lived by unchavruddi got grains only from brahmin households in general.

Dear Shri Sangom,

No doubt it is very conducive for learning Vedas in a Veadpata sala under the Guri Sishya parampara...But it does not stop any one from learning the Vedas..For example ex TCS Head honcho Rama Durai or Ex Eicher Head Sandilya

 

[tks]

My dear Sravna,

.
.
according to me, our scriptures contain many good points, but if one makes a careful reading you will perhaps appreciate my statement that those scriptures were so designed (tailored) to suit the requirements of some external godheads and the person who was adept at the chanting of those scriptures as a sure-fire intermediary between that god and the devotee who had something or the other to be obtained from that god. (As example, after having propounded "तत् त्वं असि, अहं ब्रह्मास्मि, ब्रह्मैवाहमस्मि, सन्ततँ शिलाभिस्तु लम्बत्याकोशसन्निभम् । तस्यान्ते सुषिरँ सूक्ष्मं । तस्मिन् सर्वं प्रतिष्ठितम् ।" (tat tvaṃ asi, ahaṃ brahmāsmi, brahmaivāhamasmi, santatam̐ śilābhistu lambatyākośasannibham | tasyānte suṣiram̐ sūkṣmaṃ | tasmin sarvaṃ pratiṣṭhitam |), etc., how/why was it that this line of thinking or introspection is mostly overshadowed by worship of one external god or the other?)

.
.

I consider this an example of மொட்டை தலைக்கும் முழங்கலுக்கும் முடிச்சு போடும் statement ...