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The gothram of a child

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Dear Prasad,

I think you left the Gunas long way home.
I am sad that you have completely missed the substance.
We have revived Temples in TN too. So again please do not have that holier than thou attitude.
I have not said any where that I have revived many temples in India, US or Canada or Timbuctoo. I do not agree with your misconception that more the temples you revive more holy you become.
I do not know what world you live. This discussions not going anywhere.

I reciprocate your feelings.

I totally disagree with your view that all brahmins are predominantly sattvic.
No problem. You have your rights as I have mine. All the best.
Every honest person will disagree with you.
So your judgement is that those who do not disagree are not honest. Hang them all. It is a strange world in which you live with your pet likes and dislikes. God bless you.

Cheers.
 
Dear Renuka,

Actually I did not want to debate anymore on this topic but the red rag matador bull fighting line here was also used in your reply to my post.

I used it there in a different context. I do not think examples and imageries i pick up and use are for one time use only like the disposable syringes(again an example and I reserve my right to use it again when a situation demands).

I have never known any TB in my life in the real sense.All TB contact I have had was from Forum.Majority here are fine and have predominance of Sattva.
Just a statement of fact. I have no dispute.
But there are also some with massive doses of Rajas and Tamas out here itself who keep professing their outlandish love and desires.(via Private Messages).When I first landed in Forum I was under the impression that TB's are mainly Sattva Guna but now I have come to realize after some [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]personal messages[/COLOR] received of the weird kind
that TB's are just like any other community cos similar behaviour patterns are also seen in other communities too.
I think you have multiple options here. At least three of them come to mind immediately. 1. You can ignore them and keep quite 2. You can give back a strong dose of medicine 3. You can refer to Praveen for remedial action. I do not know whether you did any of this. My interest is limited to telling the members here that I am not one of those weird creatures PMing you. In fact I rarely use PMs. I think you are capable of handling this issue.

Caste was never spoken about in my home..in fact I was not even aware of my caste heritage till very late teens when someone asked me. The only Brahmins I have known well is my mother and her relatives and they are not Tamil Brahmins. In fact I never even knew they were Brahmins cos they themselves never spoke about caste.

Again I restate my position: caste is not a dirty word to be carefully avoided in conversations. there is no higher lower connotations to a caste. castes are there. caste is the most misunderstood concept in India and elsewhere.

BTW bulls are color blind..any colored rag can make them mad.
Red is Rajas and might actually stimulate the Matador to be more active.

That is okay and I leave it at that.

Cheers.
 
Dear sir,

Actually I did not want to debate anymore on this topic but the red rag matador bull fighting line here was also used in your reply to my post.

Please do not think that some of us roam around with prejudices.

I have never known any TB in my life in the real sense.

All TB contact I have had was from Forum.

Majority here are fine and have predominance of Sattva.

But there are also some with massive doses of Rajas and Tamas out here itself who keep professing their outlandish love and desires.(via Private Messages)

When I first landed in Forum I was under the impression that TB's are mainly Sattva Guna but now I have come to realize after some personal messages received of the weird kind
that TB's are just like any other community cos similar behaviour patterns are also seen in other communities too.

In each community there is the Good,the Bad and the Ugly.

So all my learning experience about TB's are only from this forum.


Caste was never spoken about in my home..in fact I was not even aware of my caste heritage till very late teens when someone asked me.


The only Brahmins I have known well is my mother and her relatives and they are not Tamil Brahmins.
In fact I never even knew they were Brahmins cos they themselves never spoke about caste.

BTW bulls are color blind..any colored rag can make them mad.

Red is Rajas and might actually stimulate the Matador to be more active.

Dr Renu

I know there are many Satvic TB out there :-)

One may not get that view by reading posts in this forum sometimes !

Let me share my thoughts about birth brahmins.
In a right family where Sativic world view exists demonstrated by a vision of sameness in how they relate to other human beings (as well all beings) a person is well groomed to learn. Furthermore they may have ready access to all the material that can allow one to mature into a Guna Brahmin.


A Guna Brahmana is someone who is predominantly Satvic, with secondary attribute of Rajasic nature and traces of Tamasic nature.

I have met people from many cultures who are Guna Brahmanas. They were not born in a Brahmin family for most part.

Unfortunately many do not mature into a Guna Brahmin from their birth status in my limited contact.



The fellow who goes to temple and says lofty things to please some God-form often tend to be ignorant and has unfortunately a wrong notion.

Why should the Lord of the Universe want some fellow to come and say lofty things about the Lord so that the Lord can get pleased. As if the Lord of the cosmos does not have anything better to do LoL

This is so silly, and thank God (Isvara) - that is NOT the vision of the ancient sages of Isvra.

Such people who focus only on lofty prayers tend to be phony in my limited experience. They are ready to hurt others by their thinking, their action and their words in their desire to think they are pure. Why do they worship - out of fear (Artha) and desires (Kama).

Even those that want heaven into a kind of desires. There is nothing great or extraordinary about such people.

I think this post was about an ordinary woman who showed some extraordinary courage to achieve a family and did not care about the views of narrow minded birth brahmins.

Let me conclude that this topic brought out the real pride and prejudices that has been very revealing indeed for me...
 
I think you have multiple options here. At least three of them come to mind immediately. 1. You can ignore them and keep quite 2. You can give back a strong dose of medicine 3. You can refer to Praveen for remedial action. I do not know whether you did any of this. My interest is limited to telling the members here that I am not one of those weird creatures PMing you. In fact I rarely use PMs. I think you are capable of handling this issue.



Cheers.

Dear sir,

I can not control anyone's mind so any sort of fantasy can come up in anyone and as a human I have to right and ability to reject anyone's fantasy too...most of the while I am just evaluating such messages from a psychological point of view with no hatred towards the sender and sometimes also with a small prayer to God to help some people overcome their fantasies.

I think I have crossed that age to actually be even affected by such messages!LOL

I am not complaining about anyone in specific here but I chose that example to show that anyone from any community can be an admixture of any Guna in varying proportions.

Again I restate my position: caste is not a dirty word to be carefully avoided in conversations. there is no higher lower connotations to a caste. castes are there. caste is the most misunderstood concept in India and elsewhere.



I know Caste is not a dirty word but it is just that I prefer not to use it cos as Hindus we should strive to rid of bodily identification as much as possible.

Like for example a new South Indian stall opened near my clinic and the owner seeing me only buying vegetarian food asked me if I am only veg for Navaratri?

I said nope its not just for Navaratri becos I am a vegetarian..he was looking at me kind of confused and then he asked "are you by chance a Brahmin even though you do not look like one"

Here when people use the word Brahmin they only have the word Iyer in their mind and to them Iyer girls are traditional and demure homely types.

I replied.."Is caste a criteria to be eating at your shop?"

He said "sorry doc"

So you see I see no reason why he needs to know if I am Brahmin or Non Brahmin when I am his customer.

He must be still wondering why I am a vegetarian.
 
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A Guna Brahmana is someone who is predominantly Satvic, with secondary attribute of Rajasic nature and traces of Tamasic nature.

I have met people from many cultures who are Guna Brahmanas. They were not born in a Brahmin family for most part.

..

Dear sir,

I agree with your post but just would like to beg a differ on just one point.

There are many people who don't mind being called predominantly Sattva but might not really want to be classified as Guna Brahmana.

They don't mind the word Sattva Guna but not too keen for the Brahmana tag.

Becos that still causes a division and people might think that everyone is striving for a Brahmana Wannabe status.


I remember emailing an elderly man who is an author of a religious book who is a Brahmin by birth and since I loved his book so much I wrote to him saying that I give him full respect of being a Brahmin by birth and for authoring such a wonderful religious text.He is worthy of respect.
I have also met him in person in India.

He told me that he feels he has no right to call himself a Brahmana cos he has yet to realize Brahman.
He said only a person who has realized Brahman is a True Brahmana.
 
Dear TKS,

Your post # 228 for reference:
A Guna Brahmana is someone who is predominantly Satvic, with secondary attribute of Rajasic nature and traces of Tamasic nature.
I have met people from many cultures who are Guna Brahmanas. They were not born in a Brahmin family for most part.
Unfortunately many do not mature into a Guna Brahmin from their birth status in my limited contact.

The very fact that you have chosen the word "Guna Brahmana" shows that a saatvik individual has to be denoted by associating him with the term "Brahmana". What would you call a nirguna brahmana with a lot of tamasic and rajasic attributes? a guna Sudra? LOL.

The fellow who goes to temple and says lofty things to please some God-form often tend to be ignorant and has unfortunately a wrong notion.Why should the Lord of the Universe want some fellow to come and say lofty things about the Lord so that the Lord can get pleased. As if the Lord of the cosmos does not have anything better to do LoL

Dear friend, You are now opening up a fine philosophical point for debate. Do you know that all the lofty things are told to repeatedly remind oneself how small he/she is? Are you aware that there is something called ego and as long as it is ruling you there is no chance of your seeing anything else leave alone God and that that is the effort involved in all the sthothram made to God. Are you aware that you are rubbishing the entire sthothram literature of Hindu Religion?

This is so silly, and thank God (Isvara) - that is NOT the vision of the ancient sages of Isvra.

Which ancient sage are you having in mind? Can you quote? How ancient have you gone in this effort?

Such people who focus only on lofty prayers tend to be phony in my limited experience. They are ready to hurt others by their thinking, their action and their words in their desire to think they are pure. Why do they worship - out of fear (Artha) and desires (Kama).


Because your experience is limited it can not be representative of any acceptable group. It would be better if you increase your sample size!

Even those that want heaven into a kind of desires. There is nothing great or extraordinary about such people.

Heaven represents the pinnacle of all good desirable things for a saatvic individual. What is wrong in praying for it? It is better than praying for virgins to enjoy on the way to Heaven. Hope you understand what a saatvic desires for.

I think this post was about an ordinary woman who showed some extraordinary courage to achieve a family and did not care about the views of narrow minded birth brahmins.

"Extraordinary courage" and "achievement" are the words you are using to eulogize that unfortunate lady. Next step will be to etch this story in golden letters to be read along with Ramayana and Srimad Bhagavatham and spread the message widely across the continents and make it a point to teach this to all the children so that they emulate and feel emancipated.

Let me conclude that this topic brought out the real pride and prejudices that has been very revealing indeed for me...

  • very true

    Cheers.
 
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Dear TKS,


The very fact that you have chosen the word "Guna Brahmana" shows that a saatvik individual has to be denoted by associating him with the term "Brahmana". What would you call a nirguna brahmana with a lot of tamasic and rajasic attributes? a guna Sudra? LOL.



  • Cheers.

LOL!

Dear TKS,

I think now you would understand why I begged to differ on the usage of the term Guna Brahmana!

It's a patented word!

Hence this was my opinion in my previous post #230

There are many people who don't mind being called predominantly Sattva but might not really want to be classified as Guna Brahmana.

They don't mind the word Sattva Guna but not too keen for the Brahmana tag.

Becos that still causes a division and people might think that everyone is striving for a Brahmana Wannabe status.

I can't help smiling how right I was! Ha Ha Ha
 
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Whats really silly is the conclusions that one arrives at with ones own limited exposure, knowledge and acquaintance and dubs it as the profound truth and discovery.
Dr APJK said:
"I was aware that the best work required more ability than I possessed and therefore I needed help that only God could give me."
Is this TB forum made of more wiser men or their achievements much greater that they showcase their ignorance and conclusions as the ultimate reality?
Surely, At some level mind becomes an impediment to growth and maturity and what better example than what you see here.
 
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Is this TB forum made of more wiser men or their achievements much greater that they showcase their ignorance and conclusions as the ultimate reality?
Surely, At some level mind becomes an impediment to growth and maturity and what better example than what you see here.

How profound..truly an introspective Atma Vichara.

Hats off to you.

Not everyone is humble enough to admit their flaws.


Everyone should learn from you..well said.. you truly defined yourself well.


You have opened our eyes previously clouded by the cataract of ignorance by your Atma Vichara.

Koti Pranams to you.

I rest my case.
 
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Originally Posted by suraju06
Dear TKS,

The very fact that you have chosen the word "Guna Brahmana" shows that a saatvik individual has to be denoted by associating him with the term "Brahmana". What would you call a nirguna brahmana with a lot of tamasic and rajasic attributes? a guna Sudra? LOL.



  • Cheers.

Dear Sir,

In your reply to TKS I have a slight doubt here.

Nirguna means beyond Gunas(transcended Gunas) so why have you described a Nirguna Brahmana as being having Tamasic and Rajasic attributes in your reply to TKS?

Nirguna is beyond Gunas so how does Tamas and Rajas come into this picture?
 
BTW even though I do not use the word Guna Brahmana,Guna Kshatriya,Guna Vaisya or Guna Sudra I can't help saying that these are accepted terminologies.

Vishvamitra is described to be a Birth Kshatriya and a Guna Brahmana.

Parashurama is described to be a Birth Brahmana and a Guna Kshatriya.

Swami Vivekananda was the best example of a modern day Guna Brahmana.

So I guess TKS was using these terminologies based on the fact that it is an accepted terminlogy though the word Brahmana is patented now.
 
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Vishvamitra is described to be a Birth Kshatriya and a Guna Brahmana.

Parashurama is described to be a Birth Brahmana and a Guna Kshatriya.

Swami Vivekananda was the best example of a modern day Guna Brahmana.

Can you give me an example of a birth brahmana also becoming a guna brahmana from the puranas and Itihasa that you quote?

Nirguna means beyond Gunas(transcended Gunas) so why have you described a Nirguna Brahmana as being having Tamasic and Rajasic attributes in your reply to TKS?

LOL. Now I understand what is patenting a word.

Cheers.
 
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Can you give me an example of a birth brahmana also becoming a guna brahmana from the puranas and Itihasa that you quote?



LOL. Now I understand what is patenting a word.

Cheers.

Dear Sir,

I have two examples..1st from the Upanishad and 2nd from Bhagavata Purana

In our Upanishads/Puranas only True Brahmanas who made an impact were spoken about and not any Ambi,Remo or Anniyan(sounds better than Tom,Dick and Harry).

But the sages did not fail to mention that some did not fit the category too.

I am pasting what I had written in forum before.

1)By this Upanishadic evidence it shows that a Birth Brahmana is NOT always a Guna Brahmana.



The terminology used is BrahmaBandhu(one who does not have the conduct of a Brahmana but only points to Brahmanas as his relatives)



chhAndogya upaniShad 6.1.1 - 6.1.3

Om. shvetaketur hAruNeya Asa, taM ha pitovAca: shvetaketo,
vasa brahmacaryam, na vai, saumya, asmat-kulIno.ananUcya
brahma-bandhur iva bhavatIti 6.1.1

om
shvetaketu: shvetaketu, by name

AruNeya: the grandson of AruNa

Asa ha: there was (once upon a time)

taM: to him

pitA: (his) father

uvAca ha: said

shvetaketo: O shvetaketu

brahmacaryaM: the disciplined life of a celibate student

vasa: live

saumya: dear boy

asmatkulIno: anyone in our family

ananUcya: who does not study (the vedA-s)

brahmabanduH iva: like one who does not have the conduct of
brAhmaNa but only points to the brAhmaNA-s as his relations;

i.e. who is only a brAhmaNa for namesake

na vai: never was
bhavati: there is
iti: thus

Om. Once upon a time there was one Shvetaketu, the grandson
of AruNa. His father (UddAlaka) said to him, "O Shvetaketu,
live the life of a celibate student in the teacher's house.
Dear boy, there never is anyone in our family who does not
study (the vedA-s) and is only a namesake-brAhmaNa".

chhAndogya upaniShad 6.1.1 - 6.1.3



So a Brahmin is a Brahmin by birth no doubt but he might be classified as a BrahmaBandhu hence not a Guna Brahmana.


2) Ajamila who was a Brahmana by birth, fell below the level required to be a Brahmana and the final call of "Narayana Narayana"(even though he was calling his son) at his death bed saved him and he became a Guna Brahmana.


BTW better make sure USA does not patent the word Brahmana before Indians do!LOL


P.S

Dear Suraju ji,
This will be my last post in this thread for this topic cos I know no matter what I write or no matter even if I paste evidence from Upanishad/Puranas my views will not be accepted by you.

So I let you have the last say and may you be happy.

I do not lose anything.
 
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Dear Sir,

I have two examples..1st from the Upanishad and 2nd from Bhagavata Purana


Dear Suraju ji,
This will be my last post in this thread for this topic cos I know no matter what I write or no matter even if I paste evidence from Upanishad/Puranas my views will not be accepted by you.

So I let you have the last say and may you be happy.

I do not lose anything.

A sage advice to me also :-)
 

Post # 240

Those who want the get the point, without rAga alApanA, may please click at 1.15 mts of the video! :ranger:
 
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..... Even though I started the thread, ......
It is not my property!
icon3.png
 
I think the thread has served its purpose...It can be closed now..

BTW who decides to close this...Praveen?

Before closing this thread we should call upon a Melsanthi to do the final pooja.

I feel we have very capable candidates here.


[video=youtube_share;rcQCkkVKC5w]http://youtu.be/rcQCkkVKC5w[/video]
 
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I don't understand how anyone can or even should generalise all Brahmins. I have grown up wih Brahmins all my life and know loads of them, not just Tamil Brahmins but Telugus as well as Kerala pattars. And they are for the most part as diverse as the next person with the same human flaws the same human egos, tempers, etc (hardly Sattvik I'm sure everyone will agree?..on second thoughts perhaps not). To say all are Sattvik is either stretching it too far or being extremely generous :) But I agree that they should ideally definitely aspire (the key word here i think) to be Sattvik.

Again I'm not saying the are all unsattvik. Just that they aren't all Sattvik only.
 
Anyway I'm sure I saw someone saying in this thread that gunas are still binding. Therefore is the aim is to become Nirguna then how does being Sattvik matter at all, unless it helps get there quicker?
 
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