Theory of Karma

[Govinda]

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How is this relevant to the discussion here? Do Quran and Vedas contain everything there is to know including rocket design?

Yamaka,

I was answering Nara,

Posted by Nara I am sure APJK was not reading the Quran when he designed the rockets and neither were his Hindu assistants reading the Vedas. They both claim, i.e. Quran by Muslims and Vedas by Hindus, that they contain everything there is to know, including rocket design

They don't have to read Quran or vedas, but their consciousness has been developed over time through different sources. You guys are thinking, you are what you read today or 10 years ago, but we are actually what we have been developing/shaping all these days from day one this birth [from over many births]!

Why would Kalam be inclined to their teachers wisdom/knowledge or even in rocket sciences, it would have been in his consciousness for long time, so he is quick to tune to those interests. That's exactly what I meant.

How is this relevant to the discussion here? Do Quran and Vedas contain everything there is to know including rocket design?

Was rocket design completely kalam's idea from scratch? Oops! it was the revelations from many scientists, many chinese/indian/european guineapigs/rockets, many trial-errors, many experiments, many brains and assistants beginning from the Newton's laws of gravity, to Kepler's laws etc.. So, it involved the knowledge of many from the ancients!

In 1792, the first iron-cased rockets were successfully developed used militarily by Hyder Ali and his son Tipu Sultan, rulers of the Kingdom of Mysore in India against the larger British East India Company forces during the Anglo-Mysore Wars. The British then took an active interest in the technology and developed it further during the 19th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket

So, does this too:
The first airplane was made by Shivraj Talpade in India, but his funding by a king was obstructed by the then British. This was based on the VaimAnika Shastra by Rishi BaradwAj.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzzVeGK6hLg
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2004-10-18/mumbai/27162445_1_plane-wright-brothers-air-show

 

[Yamaka]

Yamaka,

I was answering Nara, They don't have to read Quran or vedas, but their consciousness has been developed over time through different sources. You guys are thinking, you are what you read today or 10 years ago, but we are actually what we have been developing/shaping all these days from day one this birth [from over many births]!

Why would Kalam be inclined to their teachers wisdom/knowledge or even in rocket sciences, it would have been in his consciousness for long time, so he is quick to tune to those interests. So, One's birth can be based on some kind of karma/fulfillment of desires or learning.

Govinda:

1. You did not answer whether Quran and Vedas contain everything there is to know including rocket design, or not?

2. Do you know Sanskrit well, and have you read the Vedas, Scriptures and Upanishads ?

3. What's the modus operandi of " ones' birth can be based on some kind of karma/fulfillment of desire or learning"?

Define that Karma - Is it the Poorva Janma Karma?

Disclosure: I am on record saying PJK is a hoax perpetrated by religion, in particular, Hinduism.

What say you?

 

[Govinda]

Define that Karma - Is it the Poorva Janma Karma?

Disclosure: I am on record saying PJK is a hoax perpetrated by religion, in particular, Hinduism.

What say you?

Read my post #424 and #426 again.

 

[nachi naga]

gravity is a term which got coined recently but it existed much before as it is from time immemorial.god is defined by many as many are there.karma is understandable experianceable and actually provable.our darshanas are fully logical.that is why darshanas are sanathana.that to make them our swa-dharma requires guidance obediance a sincere belief.in fact its even encouraged to question so that one is fully knowledgeable about karma.saints all over the world lived preached.ppl find comfort peace harmony in life.this is the truth.

 

[Nara]

....I was answering Nara,
They don't have to read Quran or vedas, but their consciousness has been developed over time through different sources. You guys are thinking,

The problem is people jumping in without clearly appraising themselves of context.

Not going all the back to the rishimoolam in this case, responding to Sangom's point that there was no need to keep hounding the atheists of this forum, I made this post in which I observed we all are born as atheists, etc. for more refer to that post.

There was no mention of APJK or Quran at this point.

One poster observed Stalin was mass murderer and an atheist. I pointed out the absurdity of this statement and mentioned the names of two much admired scientists of TB birth who are atheists too.

There was no mention of APJK or Quran even at this point.

Another poster then observed that APJK read his Quran the day his rocket was successfully launched, another irrelevant and absurd statement. This was how this APJK and Quran thingy started.

Now, all this context makes no difference to nobody LOL, arrows are flying everywhere. Strong exceptions are taken. Links are demanded.

I think we have too much time in hour hands and nothing better to do ....

 

[prasad1]

The problem is people jumping in without clearly appraising themselves of context.

Not going all the back to the rishimoolam in this case, responding to Sangom's point that there was no need to keep hounding the atheists of this forum, I made this post in which I observed we all are born as atheists, etc. for more refer to that post.

There was no mention of APJK or Quran at this point.

One poster observed Stalin was mass murderer and an atheist. I pointed out the absurdity of this statement and mentioned the names of two much admired scientists of TB birth who are atheists too.

There was no mention of APJK or Quran even at this point.

Another poster then observed that APJK read his Quran the day his rocket was successfully launched, another irrelevant and absurd statement. This was how this APJK and Quran thingy started.

Now, all this context makes no difference to nobody LOL, arrows are flying everywhere. Strong exceptions are taken. Links are demanded.

I think we have too much time in hour hands and nothing better to do ....

You are right, we are off the subject. This has nothing to do with Karma.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

When I say I am not an authority on vedas , I mean I have not read all of vedas.But I do know its essence. And I also know that vedas are as logical as anything can get. Hence given my fundamental knowledge of vedas I use logic to make inferences. Therefore it may seem that I do not say what is exactly said in the vedas but I believe my statements have never contradicted what are in it and I believe that they can be inferred from the fundamentals of the vedas.

 

[Govinda]

You are right, we are off the subject. This has nothing to do with Karma.

Stop. We are not off the subject.

Did kalam, jumped down with shanka, chakra and invented rocket engine?? Answer me Plus, can a hindu rocket scientist become a President in Saudi Arabia? It is pure good karma that Kalam was born in a secular hindu country. As Yamaka pointed out, don't take it as personally offending Kalam. Those are the examples, we can take to explain philosophies/logic/realities.

How is this not related to Poorva Janma Karma? This birth is a result of Poorva Janma Karma, and the result of our current state of life involves karma every other minute, so does kalAm's. KalAm had too many fans of hype, plus he held good positions, his good karma must have been expensed. Yamaka wants to know the proof of PJKT.

 

[Yamaka]

"Yamaka has lot of time, he wants to know the proof of PJKT." - post 433

Govinda:

Well, Yamaka is a multi-tasker.. at any given time he throws more than one ball in the air! Lol.

You need not give a final proof of the PJKT... just give me a small glimpse of the Solutions to this Problem or the puzzle.

As far as I am concerned, my research papers are well read, even cited in old literature... I get funded well for my research by very prestigious institutions like DARPA (a Wing of US Military), NIH, NSF and others. I may be "unfamous" to some...but I am a happy Scientist - an Investigator!

When I die all that I consciously learnt all through my life vanishes.. my Soul, Consciousness, Imagination, Hallucinations, Fascinations, Illusions, Verbal and Mental Bombast - all the properties of my specialized Sensory Neurons in my pre-frontal cortx -all vanishes all together. This is what's known in Neurobiology today.

There is no Rebirth possible, Reincarnation of my Soul is just impossible...

That would happen to APJ K and ALL others including Theists and Atheists, period.

Give me some logical mechanism that your PJKT could be REAL and not a FICTION.

Cheers.

ps. "It is pure good karma that Kalam was born in a secular hindu country."- Govinda. My answer is Kalam's parents lived in Ramaeshwaram when he was born... hence he is an Indian, not a Saudi! Lol Kalam, like any other Scientist, worked his tail off to learn all about rocket science before he started doing his job. Where is his PJK here?

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

When I say I am not an authority on vedas , I mean I have not read all of vedas.But I do know its essence. And I also know that vedas are as logical as anything can get. Hence given my fundamental knowledge of vedas I use logic to make inferences. Therefore it may seem that I do not say what is exactly said in the vedas but I believe my statements have never contradicted what are in it and I believe that they can be inferred from the fundamentals of the vedas.

Dear Sravna:

You may recall, one Vedic Scholar in this Forum has said "Sanskrit is a complex language. To understand it well you need "the right infrastructure and guidance from an able teacher" to understand the TRUE meaning of the verses. For, each word in Sanskrit has multiple meanings - some words need a whole week of discussion to know the true meaning".

To give you another story. In Holy Koran there is one very controversial passage which is interpreted in English like this:

"If your wife does not obey you, throw her in the couch and beat her up until she obeys you". This is liked and observed by most of the Fundamentalist Muslims.

Whereas another person interpreted the very same passage as

"If your wife does not obey you, ask her to sit in the couch and reason with her". This interpretation is what most women in Islam like, and most Reformist Muslims love.

Therefore, I will conclude that knowing Sanskrit or Arabic or Aramic WELL is essential to understand the Scriptures.

Cheers.

 

[Govinda]

Therefore, I will conclude that knowing Sanskrit or Arabic or Aramic WELL is essential to understand the Scriptures.

Cheers.

I agree with you. But a dilemma.

By Knowing Sanskrit, we can avoid most language related errors. but still the contextual and perception errors are individual, depending on one's intellect and mind (way of thinking/experience). Our indian philosophers knew sanskrit and came up with 20 philosophies. How will you explain this phenomenon? Thus, though all humans similar humans have similar brain structures/neurons, why are we so different in our perception (plurality)?

my Soul, Consciousness, Imagination, Hallucinations, Fascinations, Illusions, Verbal and Mental Bombast - all the properties of my specialized Sensory Neurons in my pre-frontal cortx -all vanishes all together.

Brain is a static part, like one lobe does the reasoning, one explains pain/pleasure of the body, one searches the hash memory etc. , and presenting the information to you. It is you, the individual (Self) involved in the decision making and perform according to your decision, and enjoy your decisions. Self/Soul is not something para-normal in the sky, it is just that part of you that uses and controls the whole system.

This lecture might be helpful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaVoiXbaVZU&feature=related

 

[Yamaka]

I agree with you. But a dilemma.

By Knowing Sanskrit, we can avoid most language related errors. but still the contextual and perception errors are individual, depending on one's intellect and mind (way of thinking/experience). Our indian philosophers knew sanskrit and came up with 20 philosophies. How will you explain this phenomenon? Thus, though all humans similar humans have similar brain structures/neurons, why are we so different in our perception (plurality)?



Brain is a static part, like one lobe does the reasoning, one explains pain/pleasure of the body, one searches the hash memory etc. , and presenting the information to you. It is you, the individual (Self) involved in the decision making and perform according to your decision, and enjoy your decisions. Self/Soul is not something para-normal in the sky, it is just that part of you that uses and controls the whole system.

This lecture might be helpful:
V. S. Ramachandran on the Uniqueness of Human Consciousness - YouTube

Our indian philosophers knew sanskrit and came up with 20 philosophies. How will you explain this phenomenon? Thus, though all humans similar humans have similar brain structures/neurons, why are we so different in our perception (plurality)?

1. Are they interpreting the same sentence or the paragraph in the Scripture 20 different ways?

If they do, then that portion of the Scripture has to be ignored, if the interpretation is quite different.

2. Aside this, in general the neurocircuitry of each individual is UNIQUE although the gross brain structure is very similar. This is the basis of personality.. my son and daughter need not be of similar personality as that of mine.

3. Again, our perception and narration of an event can be quite different.

 

[subbudu1]

Karma is recorded in the Chitta portion of the Antahkarana.Chitta is known as the repository of memories and this Chitta portion is situated in the Subtle body that leaves the gross body upon death.

So Chitta is like an individualized microchip for each one of us.
Action is not actually frozen in time but rather leaves an imprint in the sands of time.

Karmic cycle works like a bank account.You deposit actions both good or bad in it.
Every transaction is recorded in the microchip of the Chitta.

For each input deposited in the account there will be a output in equal intensity like Newtons Third law.

One is liberated when he has zero bank balance that is he has exhausted his account and has no merit or demerit to bind him anymore with repeated births.
I think Sravna was talking about an equilibrium state of karmic balance in his above post.

Coming to Kali Yuga being a high speed Yuga...I guess we can see it this way..
in a chemical reaction at one point it reaches equilibrium and its hasten by a catalyst.
Hence we can treat Kali Yuga as a catalyst for us to reach equilibrium as soon as possible.

Why is it faster in Kali Yuga..I am not too sure??
Have you got any idea??
I can only think on medical grounds..when a person is seriously ill we take immediate measure to treat him/her.
So I guess all of us are ill with the disease of Kali and the "Bheshajam Bhava Roginaam"(Divine Physician) will treat us as soon as possible.
Its up to us to locate His Clinic!!!

P.S My post might sound sans logic to some but its for benefit of all I have written this and welcome anyone else to add in info.

This is fine . So as per what you say karmic actions are imprinted in the subtle body.
How do you then get somebody else's involvement into the karma.

To give you an example you killed a person. The police caught up with and the judge proclaimed the sentence that you be hanged. Now the doer , the sufferer and the payer is different. In other words the person who pays is neither the doer nor the sufferer. How did that information on karma travel to him.

Let us go by a more simplistic situation on Karma. A person committed lot of sins in his earlier life. As a repayment he is suffering in many ways. One of the ways is severe diseases . One example is that while he was working in a building, a slab fell on his leg, and he lost his leg. It would be declared that it was his karma. The slab did not know that this person would be coming. Do you intend to say that his own subtle body somehow communicated with the slab that "O slab come and punish my physical body" or would you rather say that somebody else a controller of karma, coordinates all movement in the world , provides and dispenses justice. If the latter be the case , since he is already aware of movements in the world, would there be a need to store the duplicate information in the chitta of a person.

 

[renuka]

This is fine . So as per what you say karmic actions are imprinted in the subtle body.
How do you then get somebody else's involvement into the karma.

To give you an example you killed a person. The police caught up with and the judge proclaimed the sentence that you be hanged. Now the doer , the sufferer and the payer is different. In other words the person who pays is neither the doer nor the sufferer. How did that information on karma travel to him.

Let us go by a more simplistic situation on Karma. A person committed lot of sins in his earlier life. As a repayment he is suffering in many ways. One of the ways is severe diseases . One example is that while he was working in a building, a slab fell on his leg, and he lost his leg. It would be declared that it was his karma. The slab did not know that this person would be coming. Do you intend to say that his own subtle body somehow communicated with the slab that "O slab come and punish my physical body" or would you rather say that somebody else a controller of karma, coordinates all movement in the world , provides and dispenses justice. If the latter be the case , since he is already aware of movements in the world, would there be a need to store the duplicate information in the chitta of a person.

Subuddu..I feel as a Hindu you should be knowing that your Q sans logic esp the slab part.I guess my karma has intended me better things to do today.
I dont think you are in for a serious debate here but rather just having some fun here.I am sure you have better understanding than this.
You are doing a nice acting job here yaar!!!

Now I want to have some fun too..i am looking up some hot videos to post in my X rated thread.
Some how my microchip Chitta knows where to look ..hey wait a sec..may be in my previous life I was one of the sculptors in Kajuraho.
Wow do I have a good Karma!!!

Adios Amigos!!!

BTW: the judge,police etc are just doing their duty.

 

[subbudu1]

Dear Shri Subbudu,

Consider two persons D and K. Both commit sins but K commits more serious sins and more frequently. Who becomes incorrigible faster if he is not checked? Obviously K. That is the reason the more major and frequent the sins are just as in kali yuga, the faster the reactions appear.

My answer to your query as to how the actions are recorded is, it is there in the soul. The soul gets attached to a body that is apt for it. Since you know even scientifically that the nature of the body or the genes determine the nature of living to a large extent. The other factor that determines a person's nature of life is environment. This includes the family, friends, the culture of the place etc. Since the effects of these in the previous births is recorded in the soul, the right combination of these for the present birth is based on that information. Basically both the nature and the environment in the present birth have to fit in with that of the past.The right nature and the environment happens if born at a certain place and time in the universe. The alignment of planet, stars etc. carry this information. That is my hypothesis

So I am trying to understand how different your explanation is from that of Renuka. So what you are saying is that circumstances in the world are kind of predetermined and the soul has no choice but to incarnate with one of the circumstances in accordance with his or her karma.
Let me see if it is possible.
Let me say I am doing a set of actions. So this may according to your idea, trigger certain circumstances in the future. This may or may not rebound on the individual in the same life or a next life. The next life and circumstances attract the soul to the the correct environment to punish him or her appropriately. This attraction is based on the information stored in the soul. If this is your scenario it does answer how the payer or the circumstance for the karma results gets selected . But that is still not logically appropriate as how do circumstances which have no bearing on the event get triggered when a karma is initiated. For example the reward that a person gets for building a temple, a child birth in the family, are two unrelated circumstances. When a temple is built is an event which has no bearing on the birth of a child . Birth of a child is related to other circumstances such as mood of a partner, health of the individual, climate, temperature, and so many other factors which do not have any linkage with the act of temple building. Unless of course some god some deity intervened and made things positive for the couple to bear children. Thus we can see that even in the example you cite karmic distribution is not possible without the interference of an administrator .

If administrator is there who can record and administer karmas, is there a necessity for any information on karma to be stored in a subtle body?
Why should information be duplicated.

Is there s shastra pramana for this?

 

[subbudu1]

Subuddu..I feel as a Hindu you should be knowing that your Q sans logic esp the slab part.I guess I have my karma has intended me better things to do today.
I dont think you are in for a serious debate here but rather just having some fun here.

Now I want to have some fun too..i am looking up some hot videos to post in my X rated thread.
Some how my microchip Chitta knows where to look ..hey wait a sec..may be in my previous life I was one of the sculptors in Kajuraho.
Wow do I have a good Karma!!!

Adios Amigos!!!

BTW: the judge,police etc are just doing their duty.

No I am serious. If you find my question dumb you need to enlighten me seriously. I am not convinced by your explanation on information stored in a subtle body because that information must still propagate to external entities which administer justice. So how does it and if it can happen why not instantaneously.

I seriously consider your idea of information stored in a subtle body as a dubious theory. No offences or sarcasm intended.

 

[renuka]

No I am serious. If you find my question dumb you need to enlighten me seriously. I am not convinced by your explanation on information stored in a subtle body because that information must still propagate to external entities which administer justice. So how does it and if it can happen why not instataneously.

I seriously consider your idea of information stored in a subtle body as a dubious theory. No offences or sarcasm intended.

I just edited my post...may be you might want to read that.
Its ok..I am not answering any Q not that I have no answers or I find anything dumb or I dont like to be Q..its just that its too time consuming.

You know the answers yourself..I am 100% sure that you know much more than what you portray.

Adios once again baby!!!

 

[subbudu1]

The Buddhist pov which somehow appeals to me, though it is also not 100% satisfactory, is as under:

Person A goes on performing Karma without any forethought as his senses lead him to. The results (reaction) of these Karmas have to be experienced. Since nothing will be left of A upon his death (Buddhism did not believe in Atma, its reincarnation, etc.), some new life B - either human or some other life form - originates in order to experience the reactions of A's karmas, both the good and bad results. Similarly some new C life will come into being to experience the results of B's karmas and so on.

If A's karmas are extremely potent - good or bad - and more than one life form is required to experience and expend all the results thereof, two or more life forms may originate out of A's own Karmas, just as one can light any number of fresh candles with on lit candle.

Here, the unsatisfactory point is that I can jolly well be a debaucher or murderer in my life and thus create another fellow who might (?) suffer for it! No one knows how it works. Buddha preached to his followers to feel for others and expected them to be more careful lest they by their karma, give rise to trouble for others. But in our parent Hindu religion with its emphasis on each individual and the liberation of that atma, etc., probably our lawgivers of ancient days correctly judged the pulse of our folks and made some changes to make it appear that "as you sow so you reap", so that it sinks more forcefully in people's minds, imho.

Dear Sangom,

While this seems an explanation I feel it is a cook-up to explain away the effects of karma and rebirth. The essential thing that needs to be answered how can event at a location , have any bearing on an event at another location, whether or not the original participants are involved in the subsequent events. There to me seems no logical explanation unless there is some one overseeing these operations. If that be so anything is possible.

However the difficulty with having an overseer or administrator is that truly speaking good karmas are not necessarily seen to be rewarded. We dont have evidence for that. Similarly bad karmas are not always seen to be punished.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Subbudu,

You reasoning ignores the possibility events are not interconnected. That is exactly what would be the case if you go by the spiritual logic. So you do not have to tell the slab to come and hurt you. That is automatically dispensed with. As I said in my opening post, I think in everything there is a balance, which is inbuilt into the reality. Whenever the balance is twisted to one side an automatic reaction sets that twist right. This is because that balance is the actual reality. Reality cannot stay twisted. It is in this way you desires, emotions etc are seen to be brought under control. The reactions are not instantaneous because you should be at the right stage of development and should be in the right environment and naturally evolve.

 

[saidevo]

namaste Yamaka.

You said in post #407:
You all say "I don't know Vedas, Sanskrit or Scriptures much; even when I know, I am not an authority on these things"... and then you proceed valiantly to elaborate the enigmatic doctrines enshrined in those books!...How is this possible?...I am puzzled.

In turn, I can ask you, "Do you know everything about neuro science and evolution? Or about the other branches of science you seek to add value to your posts?"

One cannot take bath in the ocean, when he waits for all the waves to die down. Most Internet forums are nothing more than informal simplex chats, where both parties learn something more and try to reach at an understanding of each other.

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Sangom.

You said in post #409:
Many of our theist friends, imho, cook the data to prove the theory at the centre, I believe.
...
If such is the tactics, there is no need to know sanskrit or scriptures or whatever the Acharyas have really stated. Our stock-in-trade need be some commonly used words and an overall capacity to present them in some form, not necessarily cogent even.

I believe many theist members do seek some authenticity and verify their statements. I would put myself in this category. For example, for the information I have given about sUtrAtman in post #408, I proceeded as below, since I am not adequately Sanskrit-literate or well read in the ancient Hindu texts.

• I started with searching the word in Monier William's Sanskrit Dictionary, lwlhcih gave me a source:
MW Advanced Search

• Then I went to the source, vedAntasAra in this case, and looked up both the translation and the original text, trying to understand and find them agreeing as far as I could see.

• Not satisfied with this, I looked up the word in the upaniShads and found Sanakra's interpretation of the IshAvAsya upaniShad mantra 17. I checked up the Tamizh translation of this mantra in the KaDalangkuDi Publication, before I posted what I did.

I believe most serious posters take this kind of efforts, although we occasionally see the type you have criticised about.

As against this, I feel there is another type of theist members: they are very well versed with the texts and are much respected here for their knowledge, but are frustrated for some reason that all their lifelong study have given them nothing. So they go about showing only their side, neglecting more often than not, the other side of the picture.

 

[sravna]

So I am trying to understand how different your explanation is from that of Renuka. So what you are saying is that circumstances in the world are kind of predetermined and the soul has no choice but to incarnate with one of the circumstances in accordance with his or her karma.
Let me see if it is possible.
Let me say I am doing a set of actions. So this may according to your idea, trigger certain circumstances in the future. This may or may not rebound on the individual in the same life or a next life. The next life and circumstances attract the soul to the the correct environment to punish him or her appropriately. This attraction is based on the information stored in the soul. If this is your scenario it does answer how the payer or the circumstance for the karma results gets selected . But that is still not logically appropriate as how do circumstances which have no bearing on the event get triggered when a karma is initiated. For example the reward that a person gets for building a temple, a child birth in the family, are two unrelated circumstances. When a temple is built is an event which has no bearing on the birth of a child . Birth of a child is related to other circumstances such as mood of a partner, health of the individual, climate, temperature, and so many other factors which do not have any linkage with the act of temple building. Unless of course some god some deity intervened and made things positive for the couple to bear children. Thus we can see that even in the example you cite karmic distribution is not possible without the interference of an administrator .

If administrator is there who can record and administer karmas, is there a necessity for any information on karma to be stored in a subtle body?
Why should information be duplicated.

Is there s shastra pramana for this?

Dear Shri Subbudu,

It is necessary to see the correlation between events as indicating a subtle relation instead of thinking of them in direct terms. On the surface you may find two events unrelated as you try to understand only direct and tangible effects. But you should understand in the theory of karma there are deeper and long term effects spanning multiple births that happen and it is not possible to make sense of the theory if you stick to your logic based on physical verification.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom,

While this seems an explanation I feel it is a cook-up to explain away the effects of karma and rebirth. The essential thing that needs to be answered how can event at a location , have any bearing on an event at another location, whether or not the original participants are involved in the subsequent events. There to me seems no logical explanation unless there is some one overseeing these operations. If that be so anything is possible.

However the difficulty with having an overseer or administrator is that truly speaking good karmas are not necessarily seen to be rewarded. We dont have evidence for that. Similarly bad karmas are not always seen to be punished.

As I already said, the Buddhist view which I have understood and given, is not fool-proof.

The essential thing that needs to be answered how can event at a location , have any bearing on an event at another location, whether or not the original participants are involved in the subsequent events.

A mosquito bites a person at one point of time in one location, and the person develops filaria/malaria in a very different time, different location. Here, the "bearing" which you mention, is the injection of the germs through the mosquito bite. But humans lived for long eons without knowing this cause-effect.

Yet another real life example which comes to my mind is a long-gone brilliant banker colleague of mine. Born to a reasonably well-to-do family and a very stern and absolutely autocratic Police Inspector father (during the Royal rule) this boy was his father's pet. Perhaps due to all these circumstances (and also his PJK) he developed full tastes for drinking and womanizing right from his college days. No one in the family or outside it dared to advise nor to complain to the father. (Complainants would be inside lock-up or jail !)

Married to a girl from a very rich family and having got the job of a Bank Officer, this person had streaks of excellent genius as also the most despicable specimen of man, together. Then a stage came when he had to be taken for deaddiction (Alcoholics Anonymous or something like that.) He came back and the deaddiction centre staff had clearly warned that he should be in company of teetotallers and always under watch so that he does not get a chance to drink again. But once he joined duty back in the office, he started visiting some outlet secretly, during office time and then, within a month he was no more.

In the above, I think I find some example of PJK. One is led into the circumstances which will cause the PJK to get fructified. Someone had mentioned dung beetle; just as dung alone attracts the eggs, makes the beetle to come to life and enjoy its life in dung, finally laying eggs in another dung heap, PJK gives each person the most conducive circumstances for fruition of itself.

In the concrete slab example of Yamaka (?) it is not as though the slab knows the PJK of the worker but the worker's PJK leads him there at the exact moment when the slab had to fall due to physical laws.

How exactly the PJK works is yet unknown but belief in PJK helps explain the inequalities in a way which may make people to behave slightly better, imo.

 

[Yamaka]

namaste Yamaka.

You said in post #407:
You all say "I don't know Vedas, Sanskrit or Scriptures much; even when I know, I am not an authority on these things"... and then you proceed valiantly to elaborate the enigmatic doctrines enshrined in those books!...How is this possible?...I am puzzled.

In turn, I can ask you, "Do you know everything about neuro science and evolution? Or about the other branches of science you seek to add value to your posts?"

One cannot take bath in the ocean, when he waits for all the waves to die down. Most Internet forums are nothing more than informal simplex chats, where both parties learn something more and try to reach at an understanding of each other.

"In turn, I can ask you, "Do you know everything about neuro science and evolution? Or about the other branches of science you seek to add value to your posts?"

Yes; In my specialization and allied areas of Science, I know a lot very authoritatively: that's how I get my projects funded by external agencies...

You are mixing two different things here.. You can say, "Yes, I know Sanskrit well, and read Vedas and I understand well" should be the answer.

On taking bath in the Ocean - A small story of Yamaka:

I am a good swimmer myself... During a COSIP Student trip, in my first year B.Sc in Madurai College, we went to a seaside town in Bay of Bengal... with my friend, I started jumping into the sea and gone nearly a mile into the roaring frothing Ocean to the utter astonishment of all other students and my lecturers, who were holding their breath to know whether we would come ashore alive!

I don't wait for the waves to die down to swim.. LOL.



ps. Sangom's answer was satisfactory to me!

 

[Yamaka]

As I already said, the Buddhist view which I have understood and given, is not fool-proof.

The essential thing that needs to be answered how can event at a location , have any bearing on an event at another location, whether or not the original participants are involved in the subsequent events.

A mosquito bites a person at one point of time in one location, and the person develops filaria/malaria in a very different time, different location. Here, the "bearing" which you mention, is the injection of the germs through the mosquito bite. But humans lived for long eons without knowing this cause-effect.

Yet another real life example which comes to my mind is a long-gone brilliant banker colleague of mine. Born to a reasonably well-to-do family and a very stern and absolutely autocratic Police Inspector father (during the Royal rule) this boy was his father's pet. Perhaps due to all these circumstances (and also his PJK) he developed full tastes for drinking and womanizing right from his college days. No one in the family or outside it dared to advise nor to complain to the father. (Complainants would be inside lock-up or jail !)

Married to a girl from a very rich family and having got the job of a Bank Officer, this person had streaks of excellent genius as also the most despicable specimen of man, together. Then a stage came when he had to be taken for deaddiction (Alcoholics Anonymous or something like that.) He came back and the deaddiction centre staff had clearly warned that he should be in company of teetotallers and always under watch so that he does not get a chance to drink again. But once he joined duty back in the office, he started visiting some outlet secretly, during office time and then, within a month he was no more.

In the above, I think I find some example of PJK. One is led into the circumstances which will cause the PJK to get fructified. Someone had mentioned dung beetle; just as dung alone attracts the eggs, makes the beetle to come to life and enjoy its life in dung, finally laying eggs in another dung heap, PJK gives each person the most conducive circumstances for fruition of itself.

In the concrete slab example of Yamaka (?) it is not as though the slab knows the PJK of the worker but the worker's PJK leads him there at the exact moment when the slab had to fall due to physical laws.

How exactly the PJK works is yet unknown but belief in PJK helps explain the inequalities in a way which may make people to behave slightly better, imo.

Dear Sanghom:

Can't you explain all this by shear randomness?

Accidents do happen which can't be explained.

Many of the crimes committed in present life is taken care of by the Criminal Justice system. Not all crimes, not always, I concede.

Likewise, it's possible that your good behavior also gets good recognition, although not always.

In any case, PJK is impossible to explain.

Cheers.