Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys

[pannvalan]

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I see a perceptible and vast gap between what people like me in India think and what our Tamil Brahmin brethren settled in Europe and USA long ago think. The views on either side are sweeping or opposite to each other and hence have no meeting point. This geo-physical disparity plays a crucial role in dividing us, in this matter.

When each side sticks to their own stand, there is no point in talking further. Let us leave it like that. We will agree on disagreement and close the issue.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

reply to # 980.

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

Now I understand why our ancestors vehemently opposed crossing the oceans or

as you put it 'The Kala Paani.'

I have read the story in which M. K. Gandhi's mother extracts a promise from him,

before he plans to go abroad for higher education.

He is made to promise the he will keep away for wine, women and meat. He

promised it and stuck to it. That is why he could later become mahatma Gandhi.

Now the ones who have crossed over seem to be are neither here nor there!

Eating meat is not wrong! Drinking is not wrong! Premarital affairs are not wrong!

How else can a person find a compatible partner than by trial and error(?)

Marrying several times is not wrong.

The list can be expanded depending on the fertility of one's imagination.

The person becomes like a bat or a platypus - neither a bird nor a mammal!

At least in India the people I referred to in an earlier mail, have the feeling of guilt

while drinking and eating meat. Now the guilt feeling has also been removed.

Tell me is there anything that is 'really wrong' according to you? Murder perhaps?

Now I understand why you did not reply to the points I raised about abstinence as

preached by our Scriptures.

You have wandered too far away in the past three decades. I don't know what

else to say!

Even persons who breed race horses give so much importance to the pedigree of

the horses in question. But we human beings are so much superior. So every thing

should O.K. for us.

If all the crimes are legalized there won't be any criminals! Am I right?

with warmest regards,
V.R.

 

[rajesh]

rajesh,
why you got so much angry when I mentioned afro american and Arabs. I know you people are the psudo liberals. You accept an NB hindu in good economic conditions as s.in law and b. in law. your liberalism doesnt extends to africans and Arabs. It is covert recism of yors. You people bear an hatred for these groups. why you people are so much hesitant to accept interreligious marriages and interrecial marriages as equal as icm.
and just some one is veteran or ace is not a concern for me this is an open forum let do it only for veterans or aces.
rajesh, instead telling meaning of word equality to me. tell it to nbs which are first sucking blood of brahmin and then snatching brahmin women from us. It is just vandelism. You remember equality when marrying a brahmin girl, where your equality goes when writing caste for taking reservations and other benefits.

Dear Hoover,
I think I first should explain what my views are.Talking about marriage to Afro_Americans or Arabs..I dont think I would be happy with such a situation should it arise in my family. But having said that, I also realise that is the ideal that the world should ultimately move into. Whether it can happen, or not I dont know. It might be centuries before that becomes norm. So, at the same time I realise my bias, Im also aware that this is wrong and I wouldnt dare to mention about an Afro American with the same contempt and sneer that you do. To me, they are equal, but different.

Intercaste marriages are also in a way marrying into different groups, but remember the difference is less. We still are part of hinduism. And castes do not form the core of hinduism. There has been creation of new castes as our society evolved, and the concept of high/low caste is something in tune with the economic realities. Some castes which were considered socially high have become low, and the low castes have acheived a 'high' based on how much they are able to uplift themselves economically. So, all that Im saying is caste is just a social arrangement, it does not make or break hinduism.

On one hand, we have people marrying across castes and other hand there is a need to stick to the brahmin identity as well.These icms are not happening out of our will. It is part of the social change that we cannot stop. So, why cant we do something to adapt ourselves to the situation and try to take our culture to the next generations? We cannot disapprove it totally, because we lose not only our culture but also our children. I think this is what Kunjuppu is also saying. No one asks to experiment by doing icms, but given that this is happening inspite of all our intentions and also the dwindling population of TBs, what can we do to adapt? And what are the pros and cons of such adaptation. Isnt that what we should be discussing. Or we can continue living in our dream world, but wouldnt know what to do when reality strikes us.

Hoover, the concept of reservations have come in after a lot thought from people like Ambedkar,Nehru,Gandhi and likes. You probably need to read the material relating to it to know its validity. With our limited perceptions, we cannot simply discount things put forward by eminent persons. And believe me there is a lot of talk these days in north indian media about the benefits that it has brought about in tamilnadu.
At the same time, I also agree there is a lot of improvement required in the way it is implemented. Like introducing a creamy layer or reducing it from the current quota of 70% in tamilnadu and likes. But to say it is totally unjust is just our ignorance. We need to discuss and fight for whatever improvements we think are needed in it.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

As one shuttling between India and USA(I am a greencard holder aged 77years)
I feel that Mr.Kunjuppu and Mr.Raghy have got the right attitude as to how to deal with their children's marriage.Any Indian who have settled in western countries ought to have only such views.Any other view if held by Indian parents (who are settled in other countries outside India) will only bring untold mental sufferings.
Mr.Morarji Desai our former Prime Minister once told an audience that there is no point in lamenting that your children are following western culture and thinking after sending your children abroad for higher education.
The views posted by Mr.Pannavalan and mr.Sangom represent the view of a majority of Tamil brahmins still residing in India.
I am unable to understand why Mr.Hoover gets so much upset when this topic is discussed in an open forum.His reaction is as if all ic marriages of Brahmin Girls are only from his immediate family and relatives.
It is the parents and near close relatives who may be affected if such an event takes place in their family.It does not directly affect other Tamil brahmins but I have found out of experience that it becomes a topic of gossip and ridicule among other members of the community.
Such ic marriages cannot be avoided in future.Whenever I accompanied my grand daughter who was studying in Engineering for BOOK BANK for collecting books I observed that there are a few brahmin girls among number of Girls and Boys of other communities.Brahmin girls have to move in such cosmopolitan atmosphere and possibilities of getting closer to other community boys are more.This was not the case some forty or 50 years before.IF you find that robbery is going on in your neibhourhood, you take additional precautions to safeguard your house.So it is for individual parents to give adequate education and values to their chiildren.
ULTIMATELY WHAT CANNOT BE PREVENTED HAS TO BE ENDURED and there should be no ill feeling or guilty feeling after the event.All concerned have to work for happiness of the family.

 

[rajesh]

reply to # 980.

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

Now I understand why our ancestors vehemently opposed crossing the oceans or

as you put it 'The Kala Paani.'

I have read the story in which M. K. Gandhi's mother extracts a promise from him,

before he plans to go abroad for higher education.

He is made to promise the he will keep away for wine, women and meat. He

promised it and stuck to it. That is why he could later become mahatma Gandhi.

Now the ones who have crossed over seem to be are neither here nor there!

Eating meat is not wrong! Drinking is not wrong! Premarital affairs are not wrong!

How else can a person find a compatible partner than by trial and error(?)

Marrying several times is not wrong.

The list can be expanded depending on the fertility of one's imagination.

The person becomes like a bat or a platypus - neither a bird nor a mammal!

At least in India the people I referred to in an earlier mail, have the feeling of guilt

while drinking and eating meat. Now the guilt feeling has also been removed.

Tell me is there anything that is 'really wrong' according to you? Murder perhaps?

Now I understand why you did not reply to the points I raised about abstinence as

preached by our Scriptures.

You have wandered too far away in the past three decades. I don't know what

else to say!

Even persons who breed race horses give so much importance to the pedigree of

the horses in question. But we human beings are so much superior. So every thing

should O.K. for us.

If all the crimes are legalized there won't be any criminals! Am I right?

with warmest regards,
V.R.

Visalakshi, Sorry to interrupt you in your conversation with Kunjuppu..But I feel that there are two ways to look at your religion. One is blindly accept whatever has been passed to us from our elders and think about right/wrong only in those terms. The other way is to start thinking out for yourselves and also getting exposed a variety of thinkers, you decide what to absorb from your tradition and what not. I understand that this filtering is not possible to do on our own. For most of people who set out on such enquiry,inspiration comes from reading a thinker, or meeting a guru. For me it started with Rajneesh, and it has evolved and now reached Narayana Guru. For you, based on your posts it is very evident that you have not set out on this journey at all. So, you do not have your own perception of right/wrong. You just rely on what has been passed on to you and think of everything else as a crime. Excuse me if I have been rude.

 

[pannvalan]

I shake your hands V R. When everything is alright, from premarital sex to gay marriage, except murder every other crime may be acceptable. Even capital punishment is banned in these so called developed nations. But, these are developed notions only. Culturally we Indians have come a long way. For heaven's sake, please do not take us back to Adam and Eve's period.

Anything western is definitely not superior and anything a white-complexioned person says may not be always right. Let us be very clear and firm about this.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Sangom Sir,

even in India I think no one will seriously object to a Tambram girl marrying a wealthy Nadar boy or a Tambram boy marrying a well-to-do NB girl. Problem arises only when the choice becomes faulty from the earthy, practical point of view. In this connection, despite all these 100 pages of discussion, we should note that not much has been spoken about a Tambram boy/girl growing up in an African country (fortunately the Tambrams are shrewd and our diaspora there is minimal) and falling in "irrevocable, divine, and sublime love" with a subsistence-level Afro-american from one of the slums/shanty towns. I suppose there are very many such afro-americans in US and UK etc., also who get predominantly assigned only menial works like lawn maintenance, waste/garbage collection and transport, and similar "inglorious" work, even from the western standards of egalitarianism. It will be instructive to know whether the members who champion equality and icms etc., will heartily agree for their children picking their life-partner from such groups.

Sri. Sangom Sir,

Greetings. It is so unlike me to high-light as I have done in the quoted message. You have asked an important question. In Fiji Islands, People from the Indian origin, majority of them marry ICM, since they hardly follow caste anymore. (exceptions are Pundits, still seldom go for ICM; Gujaratis mostly only marry amoung fellow Gujaratis). I suppose, Indian origin people in South Africa did the same. May be that is the reason, why the native Africans like Indians even less than they like Whites.

Personally, I will still uphold my child's wish. Having said that, I will try my level best encourage such SIL to improve his career through education/career development courses. While lot of youngsters are well placed at the age of 30, when they seek a partner, there are persons who go to school at the age of 30 to study, then develop a career after 35 or so. It is very common to see 30 plus taking serious education in most of the western countries. As a responsible parent, I should stand by for my children and help them to get a happy and prosperous life. I know this sounds very selfish; but, I am selfish when it comes to my children's happiness. I have no shame in admitting that.

Now, we have not spoken from my children's point of view. Since my children know they have all the freedom to choose their life, life partner, last thing they would do is to surprise the parents. They would discuss most everything with the parents. We hardly come across a Hindu Afro-American/African/Jamaican/Fijian. If not all of them, almost all of them are Christians or Muslims. That means converting to a different religion; that would be deterent. Not because Hinduism is in anyway superior, but because, our children would ask themselves why they should convert, in what way they are inferior? Such questions are always there. That's why, inspite of all the freedom they were given, Indian children have not gone for Afro-American and the rest.

In India, parents and the children alike have lot of friends, relatives and associates. Paents/children can get angry with each other and stay away from each other even for years while getting social and moral support from other friends/relative groups. They can afford to do that. Such luxuries don't exist amoung over-seas settled Indians, caste Brahmins. For example, In our family, there are only four members. That's it. We have to support each other in high and low times. So, our children would seriously think before taking a decision about a partner; they would only like to add one more member, not subtract one member from the family of just four. As one can see, the whole thing is quite complicated.

That is why, my simple resolve is - " I would put my children's happiness before anything else". I hope I have answered your question. But I am not sure though.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Sri.Sangom Sir,



Sri. Sangom Sir,

Greetings. It is so unlike me to high-light as I have done in the quoted message. You have asked an important question. In Fiji Islands, People from the Indian origin, majority of them marry ICM, since they hardly follow caste anymore. (exceptions are Pundits, still seldom go for ICM; Gujaratis mostly only marry amoung fellow Gujaratis). I suppose, Indian origin people in South Africa did the same. May be that is the reason, why the native Africans like Indians even less than they like Whites.

Personally, I will still uphold my child's wish. Having said that, I will try my level best encourage such SIL to improve his career through education/career development courses. While lot of youngsters are well placed at the age of 30, when they seek a partner, there are persons who go to school at the age of 30 to study, then develop a career after 35 or so. It is very common to see 30 plus taking serious education in most of the western countries. As a responsible parent, I should stand by for my children and help them to get a happy and prosperous life. I know this sounds very selfish; but, I am selfish when it comes to my children's happiness. I have no shame in admitting that.

Now, we have not spoken from my children's point of view. Since my children know they have all the freedom to choose their life, life partner, last thing they would do is to surprise the parents. They would discuss most everything with the parents. We hardly come across a Hindu Afro-American/African/Jamaican/Fijian. If not all of them, almost all of them are Christians or Muslims. That means converting to a different religion; that would be deterent. Not because Hinduism is in anyway superior, but because, our children would ask themselves why they should convert, in what way they are inferior? Such questions are always there. That's why, inspite of all the freedom they were given, Indian children have not gone for Afro-American and the rest.

I understand. But curiously, here in Kerala as well as TN, it appears that Tambram girls do not mind other religion esp. Xian also.

In India, parents and the children alike have lot of friends, relatives and associates. Paents/children can get angry with each other and stay away from each other even for years while getting social and moral support from other friends/relative groups. They can afford to do that. Such luxuries don't exist amoung over-seas settled Indians, caste Brahmins. For example, In our family, there are only four members. That's it. We have to support each other in high and low times. So, our children would seriously think before taking a decision about a partner; they would only like to add one more member, not subtract one member from the family of just four. As one can see, the whole thing is quite complicated.

I do not think relatives, friends, etc., will like to give shelter for a boy in any case. If it is a girl, perhaps they will try their best to inform her parents and see that she is taken away by the parents/guardians at the earliest; sheltering her for long is very risky and one may have to face the police, the law and, above all, the permanent dislike of the girl's parents also. Hence, in this respect, the youngsters here are not in any advantageous position compared to those abroad, I feel.

That is why, my simple resolve is - " I would put my children's happiness before anything else". I hope I have answered your question. But I am not sure though.

Cheers!

Yes, you have answered the question. Whereas you have the confidence that your children will not select a non-hindu, and you are open to any hindu being your SIL/DIL, there is a boundary line even there and that is "hindu". In India the boundary is still "brahmin" for a large number of Tambrams. Why should that be taken as something very bad and backward? Your circle is larger but here it is smaller, that is all; circles with well-marked circumferences are there in both. The lengthy and probably futile discussions here were caused, in my view, because the smaller circle of most Tambrams here was taken as something very bad and retrograde while the larger circle (which our diaspora have given unto themselves) was seen as something very noble and a high point of culture.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

As one shuttling between India and USA(I am a greencard holder aged 77years)
I feel that Mr.Kunjuppu and Mr.Raghy have got the right attitude as to how to deal with their children's marriage.Any Indian who have settled in western countries ought to have only such views.Any other view if held by Indian parents (who are settled in other countries outside India) will only bring untold mental sufferings.

Dear Mr. B.K.M,

You may be right in your opinion but remember we are discussing about the cases

in India, where Brahmin girls get attracted to /or marry non brahmins.

What is the solution you offer to this burning issue?

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

For me it started with Rajneesh, and it has evolved and now reached Narayana Guru. For you, based on your posts it is very evident that you have not set out on this journey at all. So, you do not have your own perception of right/wrong. You just rely on what has been passed on to you and think of everything else as a crime. Excuse me if I have been rude.

Rajesh!

Isn't it strange that you-who know nothing about me- state that I do not have my own perception of right and wrong!

You are a follower of Rajneesh. So what else can I expect from you EXCEPT consolidated and WANTON rudeness?

Isn't weird that you-who lap up everything coming out Mr. Kunjuppu's pen
(as you yourself have declared) blame me for lacking in originality!

The greatest oxymoron of the 21s century!!

For your information I have set out on journeys inward as well as on astral tours-whether you believe it or not. Not that I really care!

 

[sravna]

I think people should encourage marrying within one's community as it helps preserve uniqueness of each group. It is that diversity which makes the world an interesting place to live in. Besides there are important issues of compatibility etc which are better served if married within one's group.

There should be better ways of trying to end discrimination and professing equality than encouraging girls to marry outside one's community

 

[Nara]

....Anything western is definitely not superior and anything a white-complexioned person says may not be always right.

This is certainly true. When I first came to the USA I thought all Americans are very intelligent and I must work really really hard to even stay afloat. I did just that, which I never did while in India. Of course, I soon realized how true what Shri pannvalan expresses above.

I want to make one things clear though, I don't think anyone is suggesting that people in India blindly accept all the social mores of the west. At least from my side, what I am suggesting is, if a girl falls for an NB, be gentle and understanding, that is all. I am not asking for all Tambrams to just go out catch hold of the first dalit walking down the street and make him your son-in-law.

Also, when girls fall in love with an NB, it is usually from college or work. In such cases, the two families are bound to be more similar than different. Perhaps a little more adjustment may be needed compared to Iyer v. Iyer, or Iyengar v. Iyengar, but not something that would require huge sacrifices.

regards ...

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

reply to #992

Dear Mr. Pannvalan,

Thank you for the hand-shake!

Westerners are trying to learn Yoga, meditation, value of family etc from us .

In return we are trying to learn from them premarital sex, same sex marriages, unwed pregnancy, casual relationships, serious affairs etc.

The thin line of distinction between the human and animal may disappear soon!

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Imagine a strange dish prepared by mixing sambar, rasam, curries, papads and curds.

That will be the end product if all these inter-caste, inter-religion, inter-state and inter-continental weddings are allowed to take place unchecked!

Everything will lose its identity and become uniform or so to say all will become equal with no differentiation!

But will it be fit for human consumption?

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Smt.Visalakshi Ramani,
Please go through post no967 by Mr.Pannavalan.The views expressed in this thread by various members who are residing in western countries may be considered as too liberal by the members who still reside in this country.
We in INDIA live in a totally differnt environment and are very conservative.
We will be happy for continuation of 'Status Quo'.
Perhaps you have not read the later part of my post no990.
I know we are discussing about Tamil brahmin girls in INDIA(MOSTLY IN TAMILNADU) getting attracted to other Community Boys.

While every Tamil Brahmin parent(ME also included) would like that their girls marry only within the community,the present day situation in TAMILNADU where Tamil Brahmin Girls get opportunity to interact with other community boys in colleges, workplace etc it will be extremely difficult to curb this IC marriages.
When such marriages become inevitable it is better to accept the reality and
go ahead in life without ill feeling or guilty feeling.

 

[hoover]

rajesh,
The first para of your post is sufficiant to stop going further. Situations you will not prefer to arise in your house, you are proposing the same for brahmin.
Your unification zeal is just a madness like that in early days of science. Nature preffers diversity and and caste is also a diversity. once there was a zeal in various countries of unifying forests with commercially useful trees. it resulted in various disasters both biological and physical. e.g. in Australia nilgiri trees are grown in large numbers as they were growing strait. now studies show that it is a great cause of fierce fires. Noone should experiment with nature. diversity is nature is now an accepted notions both in scintific field and greatest political organisation UN.
regardign solution on the problem, I and many of us are suggesting various remedies for this disease of ethics. but people like kunjuppu are just harping the same tune from start as if they are on payroll of somone to inicite brahmin girls for icm.
I am not repeating the names of those leaders. Indian commen people doesnt praise Gandhi and Nehru these days though it is an ritual in intellectual circles here to chant their names. is all wisdom of India is stored in just minds of those leaders. and sixty yeas have passed then, the foundation of socialism, nehrus ideal is no more socialist, germay is now unified and there are three new nuclear powers in this world. not we but you are obsolate in your thinking. Our great sages were a trillion times more intlligent than them, as they were living and experiencing the most serane state of mind and I belive in fact that such a great mind always give more good guidance to society than leaders of material life.
Gandhi was non vegetarian during some time of his life. he tried to cure illness of his son by naturopathy and operated on own in london by expert doctors is it not controversial. What to say about Nehru.not mentioning here Mrs. Edwina mountbatten in length. when millions of hindus were suffering from miseries of partition this so called great mind was speaking about korian conflict. (read Mr. Madhav Godboles book on partition former home secretary.) exactly like a begger wishing to settle a dispute of two billionires. and he had mentioned it that he is just a born hindu man and he has no relation to hinduism than this.
mention something is good and good and bad as bad

 

[hoover]

respected Ramaniji,
vary vary vary good posts.
hon. srinivas Ramanujans father also set such conditions before him. what is different, while Gandhi forget that conditions once set foot in UK. Srinivas Ramanujan honestly followed it till his death. in fact one cause of his ill health was malnutrition as then there were nearabout no pure veg restaurants in UK.

 

[Nara]

Imagine a strange dish prepared by mixing sambar, rasam, curries, papads and curds.

[....]

But will it be fit for human consumption?

Dear Mrs. VR, Greetings, since you are still posting in this thread I am emboldened come in with the following comment and hope you don't think I am keeping you in this thread longer than you like

Since an icm is between only two people, it is like mixing just two items, no? It is like mixing rice and sambar, or rice and Satramadu (i.e., rasam for you Iyers ), or rice and yogurt? Each has its own unique and enjoyable taste. Of course, if we want to be obstinate, then it will be like mixing sambar and Thirukkannamudu (i.e. payasam for you Iyers ), but that is just one's own perspective.

Even if we want to look at many icms in the aggregate, instead of looking at it as mixing disparate items like you suggest, one could look at it more like Aviyal -- what can be more tasty than aviyal?

Everything will lose its identity and become uniform or so to say all will become equal with no differentiation!

A family with son-in-laws and daughter-in-laws from many nationalities, Arab, Afro-American (sic - Hoover), Navajo, and what not, would hardly be "uniform" with no differentiation, no? Such a family would be a great family with a lot to learn from each other, lots of love to share, lots of holidays to celebrate. Alas I have only two kids and I can have only one d-i-l and one s-i-l.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Shree,Nara,

First only two dishes are mixed. But the next generation will mix with the
bye-product of one more such mix up (?)

So as time proceeds more and more mix ups with more and more similar mix ups!
So the final product will be the homogeneous, unpalatable and equalized grand
mixture of humanity!

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Nara]

....ULTIMATELY WHAT CANNOT BE PREVENTED HAS TO BE ENDURED and there should be no ill feeling or guilty feeling after the event.All concerned have to work for happiness of the family.

Dear Shri BK, in all the rhetoric that now has exceeded 100 pages, the kernel of wisdom that you present very nicely is unfortunately not being recognized. There may be thousand cases in which children follow the boundaries set by the parents. That is great. But, in those few cases, when a girl or a boy chooses NB for a partner, that also is a matter between the children and the parents, nobody else has the liberty to interfere. I can only hope that the parents will put their own happiness and the happiness of their children uppermost. They should care a hoot for those who want caste purity. In the final analysis, whatever happens to our children, we are the ones who will be affected the most, we are the ones who will care the most, none of these caste-purists will lift a finger to help.

So, my dear fellow parents, if your children are obedient, I congratulate you for your good fortune, enjoy it. On the other hand, in those few cases in which our children want to share their lives with NB, don't worry, it is not the end of the world. In fact your s-i-l or d-i-l will show you 10 times the love you show them, for they will appreciate your acceptance as nothing short of a big sacrifice. If this is not enough, think of the grandchildren who will give you tons and tons of bliss when they are young, and even more importantly, when they are all grown up, will respect you immensely for respecting their parents choices. Why should we want to mess all that up because somebody totally unknown to us wants Brahmins of the world to unite? Unite against what, our own children who had the temerity to love?

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

One honest doubt:

Is a person who has produced 12 posts in 18 months

qualified to comment on the ORIGINALITY of others?

Personally I feel that less number of such venom

spitting posts, better for the future of the Forum!

 

[Nara]

First only two dishes are mixed. But the next generation will mix with the bye-product of one more such mix up (?)

I don't have to tell you how to cook Aviyal dear Mrs. VR, (BTW, my wife cooks up one "bad" aviyal, my mouth wells up even just thinking about it), but don't you think the aviyal gets better and better as we add more and more of different vegetables, no? There was a time when aviyal in Brahmin households didn't have carrots, beans, or potato (I am tempted to add an "e" to it, a la Quayle). Now, we in USA add such things as Asparagus, Broccoli, and Zuchinni, and it is divine; these vegetables are now available in India too. The more the variety the more the taste and joy, don't you agree?

best regards ....

 

[Nara]

One honest doubt: Is a person who has produced 12 posts in 18 months qualified to comment on the ORIGINALITY of others? Personally I feel that less number of such venom spitting posts, better for the future of the Forum!

Dear Mrs. VR, if I may take some liberties, I understand your feelings, I really do. All I want to do at this juncture is to request you to forgive. At the very least he ended his post with expressing regret if he had exceeded his limit. This may be too little for any comfort, but IMHO, as they say, to forgive is divine. In any case, let me confess, one of the reasons I am pleading with you on his behalf is I think his overall intentions are honorable and on the very right of tracks.

thank you dear sister, my akka I should say -- akka by mere inches in chronology, but by many miles in wisdom

Cheers!

 

[happyhindu]

Westerners are trying to learn Yoga, meditation, value of family etc from us.

In return we are trying to learn from them premarital sex, same sex marriages, unwed pregnancy, casual relationships, serious affairs etc.

The thin line of distinction between the human and animal may disappear soon!

Am not sure why people think hinduism is some sort of a medieval insipid religion that instills sex-phobia. Well, ancient hindus do appear to have had a healthy sexual side to them. And they did not seem to have separated spiritualism with sexuality (after all, life is all about learning, experiencing, and out-growing -- if the outgrowing happens, that is).

There are recorded instances of premarital sex, like Kunti with Surya, Aniruddha with Usha, Satyavati with Parashara and Vishwamitra with Menaka.

And these are products of unwed pregnancies [sometimes i wonder if the vedic period signified a fight between the ascetics and the warriors. Indra seems to have made it a pastime to send “apsaras” from his court (like urvashi and alambhusha) to distract the tapas or meditation of quite a few kings / sages (like Vishal, Vishwamitra, Kandu, Sharadwan)] --

1) Karna (born of Kunti and Surya)
2) Shakuntala (born of Vishwamitra and “apsara” Menaka)
3) Vedavyasa (born of Satyavati with Parashara)
4) Agastya (born of “apsara” Urvashi and Mitra)
5) Vashista (born of “apsara’ Urvashi and Varuna)
6) Ruru (born of “apsara” Ghritaachi and Pramati)
7) Pramadvara (born of Danu and “apsara” Menaka)
8) Malini (born of Pushkar with “apsara’ Pramalocha)
9) Vishal (born of Ikshvaku with “apsara” Alambhusha)
10) Twins Kripacharya and Kripi (born of sage Sharadwan with “apsara’ Janpadi)
11) Kadaligarbha (born of sage Mankanak with ‘apsara’ Menaka)
12) Rishyashring (born of Vibandak with ‘apsara’ Urvashi)
13) The Puru Kaksheyu (born of Raudrashva with ‘apsara’ Mishrakeshi)
14) Shukha muni (Shuk) (born from Vedavyasa with “apsara” Ghritachi)
15) Marisha (born from rishi Kandu with ‘apsara’ Pramlocha)

And ofcourse there are instances of extramarital sex, like that of Anjana with Vayu, Arjuna with the apsara Ulupi, Indra with Ahalya; and instance of female assertion of preferences like that of Nalayani and Maudgalya.

As for same-sex marriages, you might as well browse thru these: Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association, Inc. and http://www.srimatham.com/storage/docs/homosexuality-and-hinduism.pdf

And visalakshi ji, sorry to say but i cud not help myself chuckle at this (often we cite scriptures but we seldom follow such things ourselves !!) :

Our scriptures and culture emphasize on the abstinence from acts of pleasure or at least over indulgence in them.

Even conjugal bliss is only for the sole purpose of procreating good citizens of the world.

There is a formula which goes thus:-

Twice a day defacation,

Twice a week oil baths,

Twice a month marital enjoyment ,

Twice a year caster oil treatment (for cleaning the bowels) etc.

Regards.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear shree. Nara, (reply to # 1008! auspicious number?)

Aviyal is SUPPOSED to be made with different vegetables.

How can you compare marriage to avial?

Are we SUPPOSED TO MARRY people who are different form us?

The analogy does not seem to fit in!

with warm regards,
V.R.