How to arrest the slide in TB numbers

[zebra16]

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TWO BIG WHITE ELEPHANTS SITTING IN A SMALL ROOM WHICH NO ONE WANTS TO LOOK AT:

Ever since I became a member of this forum in 2008, the issue of dwindling numbers of TBs gets repeat attention. There are two main issues which every one sees but which no one wants to address:

The first is apparent injustice to the TB womenfolk by their men folk which people tend to white wash under different garbs. I will give just one personal experience on this.

My grand father was a vAdhyAr doing vaideekams for his living and to the best of my knowledge he was a very knowledgeable person well versed in Shastras and Sanskrit. He was a Sanskrit Vidhwan and was addressed as "Brahmarsi" by his peers (whatever that may mean). After morning rituals, poojas etc. he would set forth his vaideekam and return to the house at around 2 pm for his meal and after his meal my grand mother would take her meal. This was how the life went for about 60 years of their life.

Now how do you expect a woman who had got up early in the morning at about 4 am (ardha-jAmam or brahma-jAmam) to go without any intake of food till 2 pm, but with just one cup of kanji or coffee perhaps? All this because of a stupid concept of "stree Shesham" mentioned in one of the rule books (named perhaps Dharma Sindhu - but not sure)?

What is this "stree shesham" all about ? How does food get polluted by the lady who cooked it, eating it when she is hungry? It is not as if she is eating the food in the container that it was cooked in and he is made to eat the left overs. What is the use of being vidhwAn and brahmarsi if such a common thing does not enter into the head? That he himself remains without food till 2 pm is no answer to the lady who is made to wait with hunger.

Do you suppose I would give my daughter in marriage to such a strict orthodox person even if he possessed all other stellar qualities? Does my concern for my daughter show any lack in my upbringing?

The second white elephant: One of the reasons for decline is migration to other cities and other countries. Every one who is concerned about declining TB population wants to address the issue by being located where he is. No one has ever indicated that he would even think about reverse migration. Why is it so difficult to understand that being a minority TB in a different city or country is per force going to dilute the TB culture (whatever that one associates with TB culture)?

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Narayan Sir,

Gone are the days when the wife awaits her husband to return and have his food first! Most of the TB women work for

additional income in the family. Stree shesham does not exist even in agrahArams! In fact, we give food to the maid

servant first and then have our breakfast! So no 'shesham' concept now a days.

When TBs are settled abroad, their way of life changes so much that they have to look for TB alliance from that country only!

And girls normally don't wish to relocate and so find their own mates living in the same city.

I have already written that two of the boys in my extended family could not get any TB girl willing to relocate and hence chose

their own partners, after a futile search by their parents for a couple of years.

So, the solution to increase TBs in number may be to accept any girl marrying a TB boy as a TB!
And, if possible, change the caste of boys marrying TB girls as brahmins! :grouphug:

 

[Vaagmi]

In continuation of post # 100 and post #112:

My earlier two posts referred above were made by me with the intention to start a serious discussion in this forum of the present condition of Brahmin community and what can be done to improve it.

But doubting Thomases, renegade brahmins and arm chair revolutioneries among the community have tried their best to derail the thrust of the subject. They have repeatedly questioned the very idea of being a brahmin. They wanted to know the definition of culture, tradition etc., and even liberally told us that we should forget about maintaining our identity as the change that is happening in the society is so powerful. That we are racists if we continue to think in terms of brahmins and non brahmins.

Now we stand here.

Now to carry this discussion further I am going to adopt the following method:

1. I will summarily state the present condition of brahmin community. Those who have differences can start a separate thread and tear to pieces each and every thing said here summarily. But here it will the basic premise on which further discussion on how to improve o0ur condition will discussed. No reply will be given here to those who do not believe brahmins should remain brahmions.

2. After stating the present condition, I will move to what can be done and what needs to be done by the members of the community to improve the lot of members of the community. Here discussions can take place. And we can question and answer each other about various points.

3. One fact which has come out from the discussion so far is that the few members here are most vociferous and keep shouting at me for what I have said while others of the forum are maintaining a sphinx like silence. If they come out and express their views it will encourage me to write here. Otherwise, I have betterthings to do and I will not write on this topic.

Summary statements about the state of the community:

1. It is God's will that the people on this earth should be heterogeneous in colour, other outward physical attributes like height, structure, features etc. and in intellect and other achievements too. So any attempt to ignore this fact and look for a non-existent homogeneity is tilting at the windmill. This fact has to be accepted by every one in the community first because collectively the members suffer from a terrible sense of inadequacy, self-doubt and self pity. Steps are to be taken for this.

2. The community has contributed handsomely to the Indian society in every conceivable field--science, art, academics, literature, technology, philanthrapy, military etc., There has been a well orchestrated attempt by a cunning and resourceful middle caste rump to denigrate our community and they have succeeded in this because of their physical numbers. Indian political system is a majoritarian anarchy which has cleverly camouflaged its lethal and poisonous fangs with the advantages of a democratic system of governance. So despite a disproportionately (disproportionate to their number in the population of the country-we make up just less than 2% of the total population as per census data) large contribution of service to the society we have been always ridiculed, shamed and made inconsequential. Steps are to be taken to tackle this.

3. Though we do not lack cohesion we certainly lack unity. We have a tendency to be individualistic. The result is that we lose in every area where an organized effort only will deliver welfare to us. We need to address this problem.

4. We have community leaders. But they are just sanyasis heading the various mutts. Their interest is more on guiding the communkity on the right spiritual path. Their discipline does not have space for guiding our community through its day to day travails here. This needs to be addressed.

5. Even though we stand isolated and disabled by the power the other phalanx of middle castes in politics, we still enjoy the respect of large section of them because of our sAtvic nature and our knowledge. We need to work to improve on this. We do not consider ourselves to be superior to others because of what we are endowed with. Rather we would use our superior skills for the society as a whole. We have to take steps keeping this in mind.

6. Though our land holdings in the pre independence India was not anything comparable to the vadapathi mangalam mudaliyars, mooppanars of the Tanjore delta or the ahamudayars of the Madurai belt or the dalavois of Tampraparani watershed plains, we were land owners. After independence, slowly we lost our lands partly because of the land reforms and partly because of the political patronage to the local thugs and usurpers. When the lands owned shrunk to smaller than critical size agriculture became a loss making business for our community and we did not know what to do and how to handle the crisis. Many families moved to the small nearby towns after selling their land holdings and with the money they lived a frugal life and educated their children. Some of our members moved to distant metros like Delhi, Mumbai and Calcutta and made good their life there. Thus the independence had been a mixed bag of freedom and woes for us, woes being more than the advantage of freedom. Agraharams were left in shambles and temples were left without pujaris. The agraharams became haunted places. The transplantation in a city came with the advantage of anonimity to individual members and we used it to our advantage well. And we went after academic achievement with a vengeance. And we are here today. We have lessons here to learn from these experiences.

7. We are in metros, towns and cities spread all over India. we are there in all countries of the world. And we are a very successful diaspora in Europe and american continent. The remittances back home are substantial because we have a love which borders on passion for this country. Wherever we go we yearn to come back home ultimately to settle down here. Wherever we go we take care to see that we do not drift far from our cultural moorings. We promote our community bhajan mandalis, Astik samaj, darsana sabhas, veda Adyayana sabhas, music sabhas etc., to satisfy our need to keep our roots in tact. The organizing skills are there in our community. We need to put it to use in a bigger way.

I wait for the response of the silent majority here-not the rant from the usual crowd which bays for the disappearance of the community.

In my next post I intend to suggest what needs to be done depending on the response in the next few days.

(To be continued)

 

[prasad1]

The level of arrogance has reached a new level.
People who are mere guests are proposing new rules (they are not funny as Bill Mahar's new rules).

[video=youtube_share;Hdv9W-xcgeQ]https://youtu.be/Hdv9W-xcgeQ?list=PLAF22812129BFCD50[/video]
Like Swami Chinmayananda used to say:
I ayeaaaa know all, I ayeaaa said the world is like this, I ayeaaa decide who lives and who dies. NO one other than I ayeaaa can have a point of view. So you all dumb A.. shut up and listen.

Oh the great one do have grace on us and sanction us our daily meal. How low should I bow down!!!!!!!!!


[h=4]Gita Chapter 2: verse 63[/h]

krodhad bhavati sammohah
sammohat smrti-vibhramah
smrti-bhramsad buddhi-naso
buddhi-nasat pranasyati
​

From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool.

 

[prasad1]

TWO BIG WHITE ELEPHANTS SITTING IN A SMALL ROOM WHICH NO ONE WANTS TO LOOK AT:

Ever since I became a member of this forum in 2008, the issue of dwindling numbers of TBs gets repeat attention. There are two main issues which every one sees but which no one wants to address:

The first is apparent injustice to the TB womenfolk by their men folk which people tend to white wash under different garbs. I will give just one personal experience on this.

My grand father was a vAdhyAr doing vaideekams for his living and to the best of my knowledge he was a very knowledgeable person well versed in Shastras and Sanskrit. He was a Sanskrit Vidhwan and was addressed as "Brahmarsi" by his peers (whatever that may mean). After morning rituals, poojas etc. he would set forth his vaideekam and return to the house at around 2 pm for his meal and after his meal my grand mother would take her meal. This was how the life went for about 60 years of their life.

Now how do you expect a woman who had got up early in the morning at about 4 am (ardha-jAmam or brahma-jAmam) to go without any intake of food till 2 pm, but with just one cup of kanji or coffee perhaps? All this because of a stupid concept of "stree Shesham" mentioned in one of the rule books (named perhaps Dharma Sindhu - but not sure)?

What is this "stree shesham" all about ? How does food get polluted by the lady who cooked it, eating it when she is hungry? It is not as if she is eating the food in the container that it was cooked in and he is made to eat the left overs. What is the use of being vidhwAn and brahmarsi if such a common thing does not enter into the head? That he himself remains without food till 2 pm is no answer to the lady who is made to wait with hunger.

Do you suppose I would give my daughter in marriage to such a strict orthodox person even if he possessed all other stellar qualities? Does my concern for my daughter show any lack in my upbringing?

The second white elephant: One of the reasons for decline is migration to other cities and other countries. Every one who is concerned about declining TB population wants to address the issue by being located where he is. No one has ever indicated that he would even think about reverse migration. Why is it so difficult to understand that being a minority TB in a different city or country is per force going to dilute the TB culture (whatever that one associates with TB culture)?

Zebraji,
Your point is well taken. In these kind of threads I raise the same question again and again, how can you loose something you never had. If there is no distinct, and unique Brahmin trait (at least know one has identified it), how can we lament the loss of it.

Gita Chapter 2 verse 30

dehi nityam avadhyo 'yam
dehe sarvasya bharata
tasmat sarvani bhutani
na tvam socitum arhasi
​

O descendant of Bharata, he who dwells in the body is eternal and can never be slain. Therefore you need not grieve for any creature.

Like Sangomji said in his post:

For all the learned discussions by equally learned members of this forum, I would like to remind one small thing and that is that there never was any static and immutable thing called TB culture.

 

[mkrishna100]

Vaagmiji

I appreciate your efforts to write in detail about this decline in TB and how to prevent the same . Kindly carry on .

 

[Vaagmi]

The level of arrogance has reached a new level.
People who are mere guests are proposing new rules (they are not funny as Bill Mahar's new rules).

[video=youtube_share;Hdv9W-xcgeQ]https://youtu.be/Hdv9W-xcgeQ?list=PLAF22812129BFCD50[/video]
Like Swami Chinmayananda used to say:
I ayeaaaa know all, I ayeaaa said the world is like this, I ayeaaa decide who lives and who dies. NO one other than I ayeaaa can have a point of view. So you all dumb A.. shut up and listen.

Oh the great one do have grace on us and sanction us our daily meal. How low should I bow down!!!!!!!!!


Gita Chapter 2: verse 63

krodhad bhavati sammohah
sammohat smrti-vibhramah
smrti-bhramsad buddhi-naso
buddhi-nasat pranasyati
​

From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool.

From anger, delusion arises, and from delusion bewilderment of memory. When memory is bewildered, intelligence is lost, and when intelligence is lost, one falls down again into the material pool.

The quoted post is good example of this. LOL.

 

[Jaykay767]

Vaagmi JI, You have our full support!! Pl continue writing… & fighting for our cause !!

Let me add my comments –

TBs are the flag bearers of our culture !. All the Sanskrit literature - Vedas, Puranas, Upanishads, Vendantas, Ramayana & Mahabharata, Carnatic music, Bharatanatyam, etc.. – were all practiced & preserved mostly by the TBs & south Brahmins !! Most importantly, almost all of them were conceived & written by our TB ancestors !!

All the grantha leaves were collected from TB households in many towns/agrharams by swaminathan iyer (if I remember the name correctly) during the British days & the entire literature was put together, including the tamil sangam texts !!! Raja Bhoja’s literature were found in Kerala TB households not in Bihar or UP etc.. !!!

So all traditions & cultures originate from us – TBs !!! Given this, some have the terminity to ask what is TB culture – astonishing… so what do you call the various rituals we perform - sandhayavandanam, the various festivals, pujas, homams, etc.. – TB culture or ???

TBs are at best a brown race, with some fair skinned Brahmins & some brown skinned Brahmins – and fair skinned means no where compared to the Whites, infact as many say, we are not as fair as the North Indians let alone the whites !!

for the record no one is claiming any supremacy of the TBS here !! But if the whites can claim supremacy, why cannot a brown race claim supremacy???. So according to our NRI slaves (for whom the whites are the undisputed masters), other than whites, none of the other races on this earth can say anything that may be construed to proclaim their supremacy!!!

Wah re wah !!! Sabash…

 

[Jaykay767]

US elections is so racist, many of the rallies are being compared to Nazi Germany, but do you see a single thread on this by the NRIs ????

After all our NRIs went to the "whitey place" because they didnt want to live a "browney place", so much for blaming the Indians in India about racism !!!

LOL !!!!

 

[Vaagmi]

TWO BIG WHITE ELEPHANTS SITTING IN A SMALL ROOM WHICH NO ONE WANTS TO LOOK AT:

Ever since I became a member of this forum in 2008, the issue of dwindling numbers of TBs gets repeat attention. There are two main issues which every one sees but which no one wants to address:

The first is apparent injustice to the TB womenfolk by their men folk which people tend to white wash under different garbs. I will give just one personal experience on this.

My grand father was a vAdhyAr doing vaideekams for his living and to the best of my knowledge he was a very knowledgeable person well versed in Shastras and Sanskrit. He was a Sanskrit Vidhwan and was addressed as "Brahmarsi" by his peers (whatever that may mean). After morning rituals, poojas etc. he would set forth his vaideekam and return to the house at around 2 pm for his meal and after his meal my grand mother would take her meal. This was how the life went for about 60 years of their life.

Now how do you expect a woman who had got up early in the morning at about 4 am (ardha-jAmam or brahma-jAmam) to go without any intake of food till 2 pm, but with just one cup of kanji or coffee perhaps? All this because of a stupid concept of "stree Shesham" mentioned in one of the rule books (named perhaps Dharma Sindhu - but not sure)?

What is this "stree shesham" all about ? How does food get polluted by the lady who cooked it, eating it when she is hungry? It is not as if she is eating the food in the container that it was cooked in and he is made to eat the left overs. What is the use of being vidhwAn and brahmarsi if such a common thing does not enter into the head? That he himself remains without food till 2 pm is no answer to the lady who is made to wait with hunger.

Do you suppose I would give my daughter in marriage to such a strict orthodox person even if he possessed all other stellar qualities? Does my concern for my daughter show any lack in my upbringing?

The second white elephant: One of the reasons for decline is migration to other cities and other countries. Every one who is concerned about declining TB population wants to address the issue by being located where he is. No one has ever indicated that he would even think about reverse migration. Why is it so difficult to understand that being a minority TB in a different city or country is per force going to dilute the TB culture (whatever that one associates with TB culture)?

Zebraji,

I am not going to defend the practice. But I have this to say.

There is no need to disown our follies. What is needed is to identify and recognize them as such and evolve. Evolution is a continuous process. Things which are not in sync with changing time and which are in conflict with values interpreted currently are discarded after a careful examination of their utility. What is important is there is no use throwing the baby with the bath water. We should know the baby and bath water clearly. As I have mentioned in an earlier post when the pressures building up on the community wants it just to bend and mend, there is no need to crawl and kiss the boot.

Like a gentleman from another religion said one day. His religion believes in the original sin and Adam and Eve as our first ancestors. He said we all have our origin in incest. The evolution has its origin in incest which we despise today, he said. This was his way of telling me that it is better to live today without feeling sorry for yesterday's incest if that is the path we came by.

Anyway as RRji said, we do not hear any housewife starving so that her husband has his breakfast first to avoid the streesesham food. Is there any other horrendous practice comparable to Sati? Today even sallekhana has become questionable and is subject to civil suits by human right organizations. Hinduism is so old that it is older than anyother living religion in the world. It survives today because of its resilience. The resilience to change, adopt, assimilate, discard after careful evaluation etc.,

The second elephant: If some one goes and settles down in another country he need not be bound by any obligation to his community back home. If he does not get a girl from his community, which is most probable, he will have to marry from any community in that country. But marry he must because the wisdom is "prajatantum mA vyavachchetsi". Otherwise he should come back to this country, marry and settle down.

I just wanted to add these few lines.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukaji,

I am glad that you have understood the principle of genetic link to behaviour. It is ok that I have noted that it is a half hearted admission.

Dear Vaagmi Ji,

Its not a half hearted admission.

Its my speculation..it might sound half hearted becos I do not have concrete evidence for what I am speculating.

 

[vgane]

In continuation of post # 100 and post #112:

My earlier two posts referred above were made by me with the intention to start a serious discussion in this forum of the present condition of Brahmin community and what can be done to improve it.

But doubting Thomases, renegade brahmins and arm chair revolutioneries among the community have tried their best to derail the thrust of the subject. They have repeatedly questioned the very idea of being a brahmin. They wanted to know the definition of culture, tradition etc., and even liberally told us that we should forget about maintaining our identity as the change that is happening in the society is so powerful. That we are racists if we continue to think in terms of brahmins and non brahmins.

Now we stand here.

Now to carry this discussion further I am going to adopt the following method:

1. I will summarily state the present condition of brahmin community. Those who have differences can start a separate thread and tear to pieces each and every thing said here summarily. But here it will the basic premise on which further discussion on how to improve o0ur condition will discussed. No reply will be given here to those who do not believe brahmins should remain brahmions.

2. After stating the present condition, I will move to what can be done and what needs to be done by the members of the community to improve the lot of members of the community. Here discussions can take place. And we can question and answer each other about various points.

3. One fact which has come out from the discussion so far is that the few members here are most vociferous and keep shouting at me for what I have said while others of the forum are maintaining a sphinx like silence. If they come out and express their views it will encourage me to write here. Otherwise, I have betterthings to do and I will not write on this topic.

Summary statements about the state of the community:

1. It is God's will that the people on this earth should be heterogeneous in colour, other outward physical attributes like height, structure, features etc. and in intellect and other achievements too. So any attempt to ignore this fact and look for a non-existent homogeneity is tilting at the windmill. This fact has to be accepted by every one in the community first because collectively the members suffer from a terrible sense of inadequacy, self-doubt and self pity. Steps are to be taken for this.

2. The community has contributed handsomely to the Indian society in every conceivable field--science, art, academics, literature, technology, philanthrapy, military etc., There has been a well orchestrated attempt by a cunning and resourceful middle caste rump to denigrate our community and they have succeeded in this because of their physical numbers. Indian political system is a majoritarian anarchy which has cleverly camouflaged its lethal and poisonous fangs with the advantages of a democratic system of governance. So despite a disproportionately (disproportionate to their number in the population of the country-we make up just less than 2% of the total population as per census data) large contribution of service to the society we have been always ridiculed, shamed and made inconsequential. Steps are to be taken to tackle this.

3. Though we do not lack cohesion we certainly lack unity. We have a tendency to be individualistic. The result is that we lose in every area where an organized effort only will deliver welfare to us. We need to address this problem.

4. We have community leaders. But they are just sanyasis heading the various mutts. Their interest is more on guiding the communkity on the right spiritual path. Their discipline does not have space for guiding our community through its day to day travails here. This needs to be addressed.

5. Even though we stand isolated and disabled by the power the other phalanx of middle castes in politics, we still enjoy the respect of large section of them because of our sAtvic nature and our knowledge. We need to work to improve on this. We do not consider ourselves to be superior to others because of what we are endowed with. Rather we would use our superior skills for the society as a whole. We have to take steps keeping this in mind.

6. Though our land holdings in the pre independence India was not anything comparable to the vadapathi mangalam mudaliyars, mooppanars of the Tanjore delta or the ahamudayars of the Madurai belt or the dalavois of Tampraparani watershed plains, we were land owners. After independence, slowly we lost our lands partly because of the land reforms and partly because of the political patronage to the local thugs and usurpers. When the lands owned shrunk to smaller than critical size agriculture became a loss making business for our community and we did not know what to do and how to handle the crisis. Many families moved to the small nearby towns after selling their land holdings and with the money they lived a frugal life and educated their children. Some of our members moved to distant metros like Delhi, Mumbai and Calcutta and made good their life there. Thus the independence had been a mixed bag of freedom and woes for us, woes being more than the advantage of freedom. Agraharams were left in shambles and temples were left without pujaris. The agraharams became haunted places. The transplantation in a city came with the advantage of anonimity to individual members and we used it to our advantage well. And we went after academic achievement with a vengeance. And we are here today. We have lessons here to learn from these experiences.

7. We are in metros, towns and cities spread all over India. we are there in all countries of the world. And we are a very successful diaspora in Europe and american continent. The remittances back home are substantial because we have a love which borders on passion for this country. Wherever we go we yearn to come back home ultimately to settle down here. Wherever we go we take care to see that we do not drift far from our cultural moorings. We promote our community bhajan mandalis, Astik samaj, darsana sabhas, veda Adyayana sabhas, music sabhas etc., to satisfy our need to keep our roots in tact. The organizing skills are there in our community. We need to put it to use in a bigger way.

I wait for the response of the silent majority here-not the rant from the usual crowd which bays for the disappearance of the community.

In my next post I intend to suggest what needs to be done depending on the response in the next few days.

(To be continued)

I am with you Vaagmiji...No one can say that there is no unique stuff about TB's..Each caste & community has some unique traits..What is wrong in preserving the same! Look forward to your suggestions too to improve the mess that we are in!

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Vaagmi Ji,

We the majority are all with you.

Please go ahead.

Incidentally I would like to quote the Sanskrit proverb "sreyamsi bahu vignani" (many hurdles spring up even for good things !).

Let those members who have poor understanding with our value system come here to rant, write to their heart’s content.

And most of us are observing such members mind through their contributions which fail to add value to a lively debate.

I learn a lot through your postings. Please keep it up Sir.

 

[krish44]

Shoot vaagmiji

The floor is yours.

You can share your dreams and aspirations.

Unfortunately , there are not many youngsters who can appreciate your wisdom and ready to follow the path shown.

Seniors with nothing much to do can be lead up the garden path.

Some might be ready for second innings with another woman if circumstances permit and there is religeous sanction.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

The floor is free for all.

One is free to share his rich misconceptions and poor understanding too like our arm chair adventurist.

Fortunately, there are still many senior citizen who visit the Forum and contribute their noble thoughts.

And there are majority of good hearts and healthy minds to appreciate one’s wisdom and ready to follow the path shown.

There are also alleged seniors who write a lot but nothing much to share can be lead up the alleged rosy path.

Some who might have miserably failed in their first innings may be longing for second innings to go for girls of ……..community which dominates Garstin Bastion Road at Delhi for which act of adventure and excitement, they are free to conceive religious sanction too. lol

 

[sravna]

Vaagmi Ji's sincere efforts are appreciated. Though I agree with most of what Vaagmi Ji says I also think if a culture has to survive in the long run, it needs to focus on its time independent aspects. But we would like to see such aspects in everybody if possible. So I would go for the more inclusive approach and spreading the culture. Heterogeneity is definitely there with a reason but is it also not true that everyone is truly divine inside?

 

[vgane]

This definitely is not the gist of what I wanted to convey. So please let me amplify:

(a) I asked Vgane about what is his expectation from an agraharam because his post mentioned only about protecting agraharam from losing its sheen and buying at least one house in agraharam and nurturing it. There is not any mention of any poster going to agraharam house and residing in it for good. If the stalwarts are not going to reside in a agraharam house, but merely buy it out of nostalgia (and may be let it out for occupation by other brahmins either for rent or rent-free), what good would it achieve?

We are at best postponing the decay (or loss of sheen of agraharam) by utmost one or two generation. I do not think it is a permanent solution to arrest the slide of TB numbers in any meaningful way.

2. About Sanskrit I re-iterate that we are paying only lip service without doing anything tangible. I did not allude to non-utility of Sanskrit by any means. Learning Sanskrit in 3 months or 100 days etc. are mere STUNTS that too indulged by people who are retired or who are about to retire. Let us endeavour to do something really substantial.

3. The INTERNET RUBBISH that regularly gets posted in this forum as the purported meaning of very common slokams or even Gayatri Mantram is proof enough that North Pole is located in Begusarai in Bihar.

As we are aware the agraharams which were the abode of Brahmins are now wearing an emaciated look with Brahmins going away...Mandagapadi, utsavam etc are not happening as per the sastras /agamas..My suggestion is- let us buy one house in our native place..We can participate in the temple festivals and show case our culture to our children and grand children...Similar to what JJ mentioned ...Also it will prevent non Hindus from taking over our forefathers houses...TB's can give their houses on nominal charges to vedic priests...This will ensure that the houses are not locked...It will be a blessing in disguise for the priests too who are getting a good accommodation for a pittance..Our Hindu Dharma can get roots again in the villages

 

[auh]

The old wish to dictate the young when they are minds apart !

To understand whether or not the "TB culture" is to be retained, we should first identify what the term "TB culture" encompasses. Nobody has been able, so far, to give a comprehensive definition. As of today, a large number of redundant (and probably, superstitious) practices have creeped in, and an equally, if not more, large number of practices have been wished away at the sake of convenience. We talk glibly of keeping the practices in vogue, but who will do it? People who are speaking here vociferously about retaining the TB culture have all left the life of a brahmana as is prescribed. We have all, at one point of time or the other, chosen to follow a few and leave a few. Then what gives us the right to speak about preserving the "TB culture" when all of us are non-adherents?

Who does samhitadhaanam when they are brahmacharis and who does agnihotram when they are married? Where is the "appala" kudumi? Gayathri japam and panchakaccham is not the beginning and end of culture. Simply put, we have to travel back in time to keep the culture intact. The current TBs have discarded those parts that do not fit in with times and have retained the rest. So it is a diluted TB ambiguous culture that we are talking about here.

Now the second point arises - why should we retain a culture? To what purpose? Does it serve any significant end if I do not wear the panchakaccham and don bermudas? What happens if I do not do the Gayathri Japam but do Yoga? What if I do not know to celebrate any particular festival; how would it impact my life? Are these the only modes of teachings to our young? Are there no other? Can a person bring up his offspring as a good human being without subjecting them to TB culture? More importantly, a culture can be followed (as shri zebra put it rightly) only if both the parents are willing. More often than not it is the retired or reclusive male who seeks shelter under the garb of culture. The woman is free, daring, and willing to adventure and learn.

We adapt to situations and adopt those practices that help us survive, as an individual.

Agraharams are deserted now, save perhaps for a select few. Nobody cares about such setups now. Most of the brahmins do not want to get settled down in boring agraharams when there are opportunities elsewhere. Those that do, do so because of a habit that refuses to die, and probably would not wish their children such a fate.

I recently came to know of our family vadhyar's daughter who eloped with an NB. How is this possible? Who better than a vadhyar could know about culture and follow it? He wore religious marks, panchakaccham, very fluent with the rituals, homams and the mantrams... and yet.

There seems to be something else beyond culture that works at human hearts. Let us try and identify it first before we harp about the forgotten glory of TB culture and about retaining the superficiality of it.

 

[renuka]

So, the solution to increase TBs in number may be to accept any girl marrying a TB boy as a TB!
And, if possible, change the caste of boys marrying TB girls as brahmins! :grouphug:

Dear RR ji,

"Changing" one's caste(which is not possible anyways) is actually insulting to one's mother cos the mother of the person whose caste one intends to change did not procreate with another man for her child to take on the identity of a caste that does not belong to her husband.

Its Mata,Pita,Guru,Deivam. Each should stick to their own identity and address problems faced by their own community..cross over caste exchange will not work.

One does not get anywhere in life by denying one's father's lineage.

In fact Hindu culture is all about diversity...its only a certain Abrahamic religion that calls for total change of identity.

 

[prasad1]

The old wish to dictate the young when they are minds apart !

To understand whether or not the "TB culture" is to be retained, we should first identify what the term "TB culture" encompasses. Nobody has been able, so far, to give a comprehensive definition. As of today, a large number of redundant (and probably, superstitious) practices have creeped in, and an equally, if not more, large number of practices have been wished away at the sake of convenience. We talk glibly of keeping the practices in vogue, but who will do it? People who are speaking here vociferously about retaining the TB culture have all left the life of a brahmana as is prescribed. We have all, at one point of time or the other, chosen to follow a few and leave a few. Then what gives us the right to speak about preserving the "TB culture" when all of us are non-adherents?

Who does samhitadhaanam when they are brahmacharis and who does agnihotram when they are married? Where is the "appala" kudumi? Gayathri japam and panchakaccham is not the beginning and end of culture. Simply put, we have to travel back in time to keep the culture intact. The current TBs have discarded those parts that do not fit in with times and have retained the rest. So it is a diluted TB ambiguous culture that we are talking about here.

Now the second point arises - why should we retain a culture? To what purpose? Does it serve any significant end if I do not wear the panchakaccham and don bermudas? What happens if I do not do the Gayathri Japam but do Yoga? What if I do not know to celebrate any particular festival; how would it impact my life? Are these the only modes of teachings to our young? Are there no other? Can a person bring up his offspring as a good human being without subjecting them to TB culture? More importantly, a culture can be followed (as shri zebra put it rightly) only if both the parents are willing. More often than not it is the retired or reclusive male who seeks shelter under the garb of culture. The woman is free, daring, and willing to adventure and learn.

We adapt to situations and adopt those practices that help us survive, as an individual.

Agraharams are deserted now, save perhaps for a select few. Nobody cares about such setups now. Most of the brahmins do not want to get settled down in boring agraharams when there are opportunities elsewhere. Those that do, do so because of a habit that refuses to die, and probably would not wish their children such a fate.

I recently came to know of our family vadhyar's daughter who eloped with an NB. How is this possible? Who better than a vadhyar could know about culture and follow it? He wore religious marks, panchakaccham, very fluent with the rituals, homams and the mantrams... and yet.

There seems to be something else beyond culture that works at human hearts. Let us try and identify it first before we harp about the forgotten glory of TB culture and about retaining the superficiality of it.

Well said. Good and timely post.

 

[prasad1]

Cultism in the name of preserving Culture.
Racism in the name of purity and superiority of Caste.

 

[krish44]

I like AUHs post above where he says 'we adapt to situations and adopt the practices which help us to survive' . Not only spiritually but also in material terms. It is not

survival but more than that. We give up /modify rituals, practices to suit our convenience and retain some which we think will lead to a better life.

Agraharam are dead and there is no going back. One has to move on as clock cannot be put back.

It is like jews claiming a holy land after centuries in middle east.lol.

We need strongly to relate to each other as human beings and bring up our children with open minds to accept the society around them and live in peace and harmony.

Educated working girls simply hanging up and going off with anyone they are comfortable with is the changing face of brahmin society.

No one can stop the slide unless the male parent give up the paternalistic attitude and female mother stops collecting her pound of flesh from prospective son in law

thru daughter.

Anyone who says he will show a new path is no better than a confidence trickster. We have abundance of them in india.

Have some entered this forum also?

 

[sravna]

Let me talk from the point of view of those wanting to retain the culture. TB Culture is something that is part of the life of almost every TB. It includes brahmin culture and those that are specific to TBs. Brahmin culture includes sandhyavndhanam, doing poojas, functions and festivals the brahmin way and TBs adapt or add some to the general brahmin culture.

Should these ways of life be preserved? I think so because though some may seem meaningless and anachronistic, there are many which carry significance. For example there is so much of significance to sandhyavandhanam that abandoning it would mean we are leaving behind something that can contribute to our well being.

The crux of the matter is this. Normally it is wise to move with times and abandon practices that do not sync with the times. There are many such practices in our culture but to abandon them in toto is not the right thing to do. Practice those that can be practiced in private in a private way. The logic behind our philosophies such as advaita, vishistadvaita and the significant spiritual knowledge which we possess are something that would actually benefit everybody in their thinking and these need to be not only preserved but also propagated stripping off their religious overtones.

 

[V.Balasubramani]

Have not only entered in this Forum, but have also started to lament day in and day out untiringly.

There is no dearth for grumbling in despair, but nothing in action, all preaching through postings mostly repetition.

Since the Forum is free for all some take full advantage to exhibit their ignoorance with abundance of time left at their disposal.

Mr. Auh has concluded his posting saying that there seems to be something else beyond culture that works at human hearts. Let us try and identify it first before we harp about the forgotten glory of TB culture and about retaining the superficiality of it.

Now what is this something’?

It is better if this member who is contributing more on this thread spare some thought over this before pouring his wisdom.

 

[vgane]

I recently came to know of our family vadhyar's daughter who eloped with an NB. How is this possible? Who better than a vadhyar could know about culture and follow it? He wore religious marks, panchakaccham, very fluent with the rituals, homams and the mantrams... and yet.

There seems to be something else beyond culture that works at human hearts. Let us try and identify it first before we harp about the forgotten glory of TB culture and about retaining the superficiality of it.

Culture is fine! But one has to use the wisdom when we are allowing boys & girls to freely interact..Get the girls married fast..Do not depend on the girls income!