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intercaste marriages

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I also asked specifically about the Vadagalai group because they make far too many claims when compared to the Thengalais.

Vadagalais claim that
1) They are an indo-aryan group of Prakrit speakers whereas Thengalais are Dravidian speakers.
2) They came from Kashmir whereas Thengalais are native to the Tamil land.
3) The article on Iyengars in Wikipedia even claims Vadgalais descended from Kossars.
I dont want to get involved in your discussion with Raju. But I want to add something, since I know many vadakalai closely. It may be that in some sites and books some vadakalais make many claims. The ordinary middle class vadakalai is not making such claims. Not all vadakalai will support fanciful claims. Since the times of Desikar this community exists. They are proud of being tamil and many have deep knowledge of tamil. May be you didnt mean as a general statement. But people not familiar with this subject should not think that all vadakalai hold fanciful claims. Most are proud of their ritualism and their heritage. I dont like pride in any form but even tenkalai, iyers are also proud in their own way. But that is a different subject. There is no need for every vadakalai to speak to defend every stupid statement some vadakalai makes.

Forgive me for interrupting. I dont want to interfere in your debate. Please go on. Thank you. Just my take on a particular statement.
 
This discussion on intercaste marriage is a dead topic. Children who marry with other community people are not worried. Let children experiment with life. You did your best shot if they want to be different let them do it, its their life.If they hit success and have good marriage its good only no? If they fail, they will come back to you. That is not a victory is it?.But life moves on.
பட்டாள் தான் புரியும்
So many divorces within arranged same caste marriages as well! Atleast having one partner for life is better no even if it is intercaste?

Parents are worried and sad. We should talk about parents how they should be happy, adjust and enjoy life. You can still teach traditions to grand-children.
அவர் அவர் கவலை அவர் அவர் க்கு
 
Dear HH,

I give up. You may please carry on your argument with someone else on this subject when an opportunity comes and come to some sort of conclusion if you can. You can interpret this in any way you want.

Cheers.
Shri Raju,

I take it that this means you have no answers. However, i do not understand what do you mean by asking me come to "some sort of a conclusion if you can". Probably you should have said that to the orthodoxy and folks who support eugenics of brahmanical supremacy since they are the ones unable to resolve their "orthodox" views with those of history / genetics.

Regards.
 
I dont want to get involved in your discussion with Raju. But I want to add something, since I know many vadakalai closely. It may be that in some sites and books some vadakalais make many claims. The ordinary middle class vadakalai is not making such claims. Not all vadakalai will support fanciful claims. Since the times of Desikar this community exists. They are proud of being tamil and many have deep knowledge of tamil. May be you didnt mean as a general statement. But people not familiar with this subject should not think that all vadakalai hold fanciful claims. Most are proud of their ritualism and their heritage. I dont like pride in any form but even tenkalai, iyers are also proud in their own way. But that is a different subject. There is no need for every vadakalai to speak to defend every stupid statement some vadakalai makes.

Forgive me for interrupting. I dont want to interfere in your debate. Please go on. Thank you. Just my take on a particular statement.
Shri Subbudu,

This is a nice honest answer. Me too am aware that only a small section of Vadagalais make baseless or crazy claims.

Regards.
 
This discussion on intercaste marriage is a dead topic. Children who marry with other community people are not worried. Let children experiment with life. You did your best shot if they want to be different let them do it, its their life.If they hit success and have good marriage its good only no? If they fail, they will come back to you. That is not a victory is it?.But life moves on.
பட்டாள் தான் புரியும்
So many divorces within arranged same caste marriages as well! Atleast having one partner for life is better no even if it is intercaste?

Parents are worried and sad. We should talk about parents how they should be happy, adjust and enjoy life. You can still teach traditions to grand-children.
அவர் அவர் கவலை அவர் அவர் க்கு
I remember something from pre-marriage days. I suspect except for some serious brahmachari types ( no offense intended ) we all had our share of bird watching. How many girls we have all(men) sight-adichified. Did we say no I will not sight-adichify a non brahmin. Our eyes were indiscriminate. Many encountered a lot of beauties among NB girls. I know they might have had suspicion on the caste. But did your eyes not indulge? Be honest? Are we not the sons of rishis, who broke tapas in the presence of ladies? If you allowed your eyes to indulge, how you can ask your son's eyes not to indulge in girls outside your community? In earlier generation we had a natural hesitation to talk to girls. Today opportunities are plenty . The girls themselves talk to boys. How can you expect their hearts not to flutter. They like somebody who is sweet and kind to them. In particular cases they did not find a brahmana ponnu who was kind to them. Whom should those particular individuals like?

I am not justifying anyone's behaviour. I am also a straight forward man who did not do anything silly with any lady. Forces of attraction are available in plenty today. It is not the fault of some upbringing. But the opportunities have become plenty -some want to use it. Some apply special restrictions. Thats all. Both are exercising their freedom of choice.
 
I remember something from pre-marriage days. I suspect except for some serious brahmachari types ( no offense intended ) we all had our share of bird watching. How many girls we have all(men) sight-adichified. Did we say no I will not sight-adichify a non brahmin. Our eyes were indiscriminate. Many encountered a lot of beauties among NB girls. I know they might have had suspicion on the caste. But did your eyes not indulge? Be honest? Are we not the sons of rishis, who broke tapas in the presence of ladies? If you allowed your eyes to indulge, how you can ask your son's eyes not to indulge in girls outside your community? In earlier generation we had a natural hesitation to talk to girls. Today opportunities are plenty . The girls themselves talk to boys. How can you expect their hearts not to flutter. They like somebody who is sweet and kind to them. In particular cases they did not find a brahmana ponnu who was kind to them. Whom should those particular individuals like?

I am not justifying anyone's behaviour. I am also a straight forward man who did not do anything silly with any lady. Forces of attraction are available in plenty today. It is not the fault of some upbringing. But the opportunities have become plenty -some want to use it. Some apply special restrictions. Thats all. Both are exercising their freedom of choice.

கண் போன போக்கிலே கால்கள் போகலாம்!
மனம் போன போக்கிலே மனிதனும் போகலாம்!
விபத்து நேர்ந்தால் இருக்கவே இருக்கிறார் இரக்கமற்ற கடவுளும் என்றோ எழுதிவைக்க பட்டு விட்ட தலையெழுத்தும்.
நாம் அறிந்தே செய்ததற்கு பின் வேறெதை நொந்து கொள்ள?
அறிவுரைகளை அள்ளி வீசுங்கள். படிக்கிற இளைய தலைமுறை கடைத்தேறி விடும் நிச்சயமாக.கை தட்டுவதற்கும ஓ போடவும் ஒரு கூட்டமே காத்திருக்கிறது.உங்கள் வீட்டு பிள்ளைகளையும் குறிப்பாக பெண்களையும் வளைத்துப்போட வலைகள் விரிக்க பட்டுள்ளன. கவலையை விடுங்கள். நாமெல்லாருமே ஹீரோக்கள் தான்.
 
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Dear Shri Nacchinarkiniyan,

Any step taken away from caste identity is a good step. More than a year ago RVR reported that almost all the participants of the swayamvaram he conducted in TVM were not only against icm, but were against allowing NBs to even register, i.e. they didn't want even other participants to have icm as a possibility. Hope your example makes an impression on others to at least accept icm when their kids go for one.

BTW, my best wishes to your grandchildren and hope they will get to be raised free of caste-identity.

There is more acceptance of inter-caste marriage among the Brahmins than any other community.
If this is true, this must be commended and encouraged even further, after all Brahmins, on average, are more educated and affluent.

Cheers!
 
கண் போன போக்கிலே கால்கள் போகலாம்!
மனம் போன போக்கிலே மனிதனும் போகலாம்!
விபத்து நேர்ந்தால் இருக்கவே இருக்கிறார் இரக்கமற்ற கடவுளும் என்றோ எழுதிவைக்க பட்டு விட்ட தலையெழுத்தும்.
நாம் அறிந்தே செய்ததற்கு பின் வேறெதை நொந்து கொள்ள?
அறிவுரைகளை அள்ளி வீசுங்கள். படிக்கிற இளைய தலைமுறை கடைத்தேறி விடும் நிச்சயமாக.கை தட்டுவதற்கும ஓ போடவும் ஒரு கூட்டமே காத்திருக்கிறது.உங்கள் வீட்டு பிள்ளைகளையும் குறிப்பாக பெண்களையும் வளைத்துப்போட வலைகள் விரிக்க பட்டுள்ளன. கவலையை விடுங்கள். நாமெல்லாருமே ஹீரோக்கள் தான்.

யார் விதியையும் மாத்த முடியாது . அறிவு இருக்குற பிராணிகள் ஒழுங்கான வழியில் செல்வார்கள்
 
Obama's line!

renu,

this is a great punch line. i should remember this one.

fondly...yours truly :)

Wasn't something to a similar effect also said by President Obama when accepting the Nobel peace prize?

Sometimes have to make war, to achieve peace.

I like that!
 
subbudu,

your post #96, says so many things, that i do not even know where to begin.

a while back, we had the same thread. someone bemoaned then, why we are striking again at a dead snake. but dead snake it is not.

our generation made changes to suit us, and give us upward mobility. my generation, though did not start the usa emigration, was the 1970s one which vastly increased the numbers, and the following generations followed suit, to such an extent, maybe i would not be wrong, if every tambram family has a blood relative abroad.

the ones who went in the 60s planned to return eventually, which the next generations eschewed in their plans, even before boarding the plane.

in toronto, the first coming of age of tambram children happened in the 80s. almost everyone married within the community, mostly under pressure from the parents, as there were sufficient numbers for minimal selection but not much of a choice. 100% marriage failure rate. this is reality, as the kids could not live under lies, just to please their parents.

most of them, remained single for a while, drifted apart, and all of them, married whites later.

some parents brought wives from india and these too failed. one wife left after two weeks here, back home, unable to handle the complexities of a boy, unwillingly married to her, and a confused desi at that, in his values. we knew the girl, who was from my neighbourhood, and felt so so sorry for her.

these days there are about 3 or 4 tambram marriages a year. all out of castes. interestingly to all hindus/sikhs. only one to muslim, and that too, a late marriage, from a rather 'devout' family. a couple to christians, but the weddings were handled hindu style and both the sides attended the festivities with gusto.

myself, i have given the kids broad parameters. these are more in terms of values, compatibilities and above all feeling of love and mutual respect and regard. i feel confident, though one is never sure, that they will use their hands, and would have considered facing a life together, ability to meet challenges and come out of it together.

you can be sure, that i will put any coupling of my children through queries such as these, for storms they will face. that is a surety. if they can stick together through the storms, and come out of it, their hands still holding, and their love for each other intact, what more could a parent want.

our chldren are reaping what we sowed ie since the generations since the 1940s - when we migrate outside of tamil nadu or kerala, had smaller families, emancipated our girls, let our sons travel abroad, educated our girls, let our girls travel abroad for education, let our girls have a career, and above all, contended ourselves with girls only family. how many changes!! from the traditions of milleniium, to these - only barely a 50 year gap - and not even that.

in many ways we should be proud of ourselves. a good many of us are frightened and alarmed. i have but only sympathy and care for them. to some all is lost. to some the future is bleak. as one who believes to the contrary, i cannot console them. but hopefully time and experience, will accomplish that.

God Bless.
 
subbudu,

your post #96, says so many things, that i do not even know where to begin.

a while back, we had the same thread. someone bemoaned then, why we are striking again at a dead snake. but dead snake it is not.

our generation made changes to suit us, and give us upward mobility. my generation, though did not start the usa emigration, was the 1970s one which vastly increased the numbers, and the following generations followed suit, to such an extent, maybe i would not be wrong, if every tambram family has a blood relative abroad.

the ones who went in the 60s planned to return eventually, which the next generations eschewed in their plans, even before boarding the plane.

in toronto, the first coming of age of tambram children happened in the 80s. almost everyone married within the community, mostly under pressure from the parents, as there were sufficient numbers for minimal selection but not much of a choice. 100% marriage failure rate. this is reality, as the kids could not live under lies, just to please their parents.

most of them, remained single for a while, drifted apart, and all of them, married whites later.

some parents brought wives from india and these too failed. one wife left after two weeks here, back home, unable to handle the complexities of a boy, unwillingly married to her, and a confused desi at that, in his values. we knew the girl, who was from my neighbourhood, and felt so so sorry for her.

these days there are about 3 or 4 tambram marriages a year. all out of castes. interestingly to all hindus/sikhs. only one to muslim, and that too, a late marriage, from a rather 'devout' family. a couple to christians, but the weddings were handled hindu style and both the sides attended the festivities with gusto.

myself, i have given the kids broad parameters. these are more in terms of values, compatibilities and above all feeling of love and mutual respect and regard. i feel confident, though one is never sure, that they will use their hands, and would have considered facing a life together, ability to meet challenges and come out of it together.

you can be sure, that i will put any coupling of my children through queries such as these, for storms they will face. that is a surety. if they can stick together through the storms, and come out of it, their hands still holding, and their love for each other intact, what more could a parent want.

our chldren are reaping what we sowed ie since the generations since the 1940s - when we migrate outside of tamil nadu or kerala, had smaller families, emancipated our girls, let our sons travel abroad, educated our girls, let our girls travel abroad for education, let our girls have a career, and above all, contended ourselves with girls only family. how many changes!! from the traditions of milleniium, to these - only barely a 50 year gap - and not even that.

in many ways we should be proud of ourselves. a good many of us are frightened and alarmed. i have but only sympathy and care for them. to some all is lost. to some the future is bleak. as one who believes to the contrary, i cannot console them. but hopefully time and experience, will accomplish that.

God Bless.
Problem is people are stuck to some era in which they grew up. They dont want their children to move out of their era. How it is possible? Life has always been changing even when we were babies. They may do some right some wrong. You cant spoon feed anybody. You have to equip them with enough information and advice. You cant control every minute. More you do that, more will be the resistance. I think that should be the warning parents need.
 
subbudu,

the word is 'time warp'.

the tambrams who came here in the 70s, had their morals and codes etched in the period that they left india.

india has changed. so did they. but when it came it their children's marriage, they stuck to the day of departure. absolutely 100% right here.

most of these, i think, cannot fit back into the india or tamil nadu of today. one way or the other, their habits have changed. enough said. ;)
 
I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.
 
Vow!

Regards,
KRS
I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.
 
Talking about migration and time wrap, when I started living in Bombay after marriage in the early 1970s there was a curious incident. Just a day before Avani Avittam we were woken up in the morning by persistent ringing of the door bell. When I opened the door I found a group of children. The shouted in unison "Avani Aavittam kovanam." When I could not comprehend they told each other "this mama does not know" and buzzed off.

I narrated this incident over phone to my father in law who is originally from Palghat. He told me that this was a practice in Palghat prevailing in the 1920s and 1930s whereby the children collected money. He informed me that this practice has disappeared in Palghat.

The Bombay Tamilians who migrated to Bombay from Palghat in the 1920s and 1930s still retained the custom. I wonder whether they do it still.
 
I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.

One small problem Ravi. By Palghat Tanil what do you mean? Kalpatthy Tamil, Noorni Tamil or Kodinthirppally Tamil? These are different. Kalki once said that "Tamil changes from street to street."

There is an old Tamil novel Vasaveswaram by Kritthika. She was the wife of S.Bhoothalingam. I.C.S. There was only prpblem with that novel. It was written in Nanchil Nadu Brahmin Tamil which is not understood anywhere else. The dialogues may not be understood even by the present day Brahmins from Nanjil Nadu.
 
One small problem Ravi. By Palghat Tanil what do you mean? Kalpatthy Tamil, Noorni Tamil or Kodinthirppally Tamil? These are different. Kalki once said that "Tamil changes from street to street."

There is an old Tamil novel Vasaveswaram by Kritthika. She was the wife of S.Bhoothalingam. I.C.S. There was only prpblem with that novel. It was written in Nanchil Nadu Brahmin Tamil which is not understood anywhere else. The dialogues may not be understood even by the present day Brahmins from Nanjil Nadu.

Kalki was known for his exaggerations. Anyway, he did not know about Palakkad Tamil. And how do you know that Kalpathy Tamil is different from Noorani or Kodundirapally Tamil? Go to any village in Palakkad district or Trishur district, you will find people speaking the same Tamil. It is so in Thanjavur. Whether you go to Tiruvaiyyaru or Thillaistanam or Kodavasal it is the same Thanjavur Tamil. Same with Tirunelveli, whether it is Kallidaikurichi or Shencottah or Vasudevanallur. Each region has its unique flavour and will have to be preserved.

Walk on any road in Matunga in Bombay, you'll hear Palakkad Tamil being spoken. This thing sabout Tamil changing from street to street is just a bit of rubbish from Kalki.
 
I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.

Dear Ravi,

My wife is from Kerala and I am from the southern district of Tamilnadu-pure rustic tamil. There is no place even for the Thanjavur's sanscritised spoken consonants of the language. My wife, as you have mentioned, brought with her the கோந்தே! மழை சாரரதுடா, பனி பிடிக்கப்போரதுடா, ஐயோ இவனோட ஒரே சல்லியமா போச்சு, பிடிக்கப்போனா ஒரே சாட்டமா சாடறான், கோவிலுக்கு போகும்போது ஒரு இடங்கழி அரி கொண்டு குடுக்கணும், நீ பொக்கோ நான் புரையே வரேன் etc etc.(I can add many more to this list) which was quite a new but enjoyable experience for us folk. We have encouraged her to retain that flavour and not to sacrifice it in the new environment. And even some of my people in the family have adopted that new vocabulary. In our dining table also we make it a point to include occasionally a பச்சை புளிசேரி, இடிச்சக்கை, சக்கப்ரதமன் or for that matter even a simple and bland கஞ்சி(made of palakkadan matta rice) with பயறு, பப்படம் & சம்மந்தி . So what is needed in a marriage is to allow the personalities to retain their original flavour and grow in their own space at their own pace. That makes life interesting and worth living.

Cheers.
 
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It is difficult for brahmins born before the 70s or 80s even to come out of the brahmin race. It is difficult to accept NBs into our culture, for any occasion. Wherever it happens, it is not wholehearted, but because of compulsion. So people of that age are not comfortable in dealing in anything that is NB. When it comes to marriage within tBs also, the issue of sub-caste crops up. It is difficult to overcome this. The problem is with the habit and custom and mental make up of these people which cannot accept change. So these people (includes me) cannot accept ICMs, though we all feel that all men are equal. Till we brahmins wholeheartedly welcome NBs into our fold, it is not worth saying anything pro-ICM.

In temples and mudams, where food is served, we still have separate pandhis for brahmins and non-brahmins. We just cannot wish these away. It is ingrained in our blood. Difficult to renounce.

We are hypocrites but that is what we are. We can't change so easily. It takes another 50 years to become an open caste free society.
 
I have stayed in Palghat for a number of years and also in Bombay. My job involved interacting with people. Noorni Vs Kalpatthy Vs Thirunellai. Again the Palakkad Tamils claim Tanjore descent. But not all of them. Like Ramanathapuram and other villages which claim Pandi descent.

Again coming to Bombay, Matunga Tamilians are different from Sri Ramnagar Colony Tamilians. Then if you do not know where Sri Ramnagar colony is, that is not my fault. Like many would not know where is Nanjil Nadu which I referred to.

Want to find differences you will find many. The Tamil spoken by myself, my wife and my children is different. It is not even uniform among the children now that they have grown up and settled down. :laugh:

I was once asked in a Tamil meeting whether I was from Yashppanam.
 
I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.

ravi,

welcome to the forum. always a new member, is a breath of fresh air and to be received with wholesome cordiality. i wish to extend the same to you.

you have posted a very interesting note, which i would like to comment on.

even though both my wife and i are from palghat, we do enjoy cuisines from other states and other parts of the world. there is no danger of any cuisine getting obsoleted unless it is deliberately given up.

language? accents? it is but natural that we pick up the local lingo. i used to spend my summers in kerala, and would come up with what my friends would call 'kanjiveLLam' accent, which i soon lost after a couple of weeks in madras. my north india raised cousins did not lose it, because they did not hear any other tamil. so it goes.

a person marrying a palghat will invariable also acquire behaviours and become acculturazed. so will the palghat person to his/her new spouse's culture. this is human nature - to learn, mix and bring out something new.

have you seen the move nala damayanthi? it is a very realistic portrayal of a palghat guy marrying a sri lankan tamil. very soon after she meets him, she found herself speaking some of his words and his intonations, much to her own surprse. i concur that one of the few times, in kollywood, where film imitates llife. in the end, the heroine comes to live in palghat to spend the rest of her life with him.

maybe, we are seeing the end of palghat emigrations, and return of the natives. if that happens, that would be a real welcome progress. :)
 
Apology

I would like to bring to attention of all that I am apologizing for the use of rather forceful expressions in this thread.I had no intention of hurting anyone directly or indirectly but its just that i wanted to get the point clear across.
This apology is also directed to Sangom, Nachchinarkiniyan and Nara.
No hard feelings please..I left once, I came back cos i really wanted to learn and share.

renu
 
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I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.
I for one do not even approve of marriages outside one's own region, leave alone caste. For example I don't approve of a brahmin girl from Palakkad marrying into a Thanjavur brahmin family or vice-versa. Before dubbing me narrow minded listen to my arguement.
When a Palakkad girl marries a Thanjavur boy, the first casualty is her unique dialect. This dialect is a mixture of Tamil and Malayalam and is one of the most unique dialects still left in this country. When a Palakkad girl marries into a Thanjavur family, in about six months time her dialct changes to pure Tamil. Her children also will have no familiarity with the Palakkad dialect. This is a most unfortunate situation. Second, she would forget her recipes which are unique to her region. Thus the Palakkad uniqueness loses one more follower. This is true of the reverse also. Hence, not only inter caste but even inter regional marriages also should be avoided.
It is really sad that you feel that way. But whether you like it or not things will change much against your liking. Why people have to choose the narrowest road?

When there was an intercaste marriage in my family-my uncle, the road for my outside subsect marriage got fully cleared. The otherwise proud subsect oriented elders in my family quickly said okay okay. Its really sad that people want to change only when their worst nightmares come true. After marriage the behavior of a few members in my wife's family was puzzling to me. But then I really understood after mixing with them, that behind this behavior they were the same good people I have seen in my family. Its my upbringing which prevented me from fully appreciating someone. Each person may be affected by cultural influences in his town or village but all this discussion is meaningless. How narrow can we all get?

Going by the reasoning of Ravisri, hereafter mumbai palghat vadama iyers should not marry chennai palghat vadama iyers. They should marry only mumbai based palghat vadama iyers. But brahacharanam/ ashtasahasram mixed vadama please keep away. Also no chevvai doshams no xyz doshams . After all its more than 3 generations, with so much changes in language and culture in mumbai and chennai.

Height I say!

Sorry , if I have hurt you. I am not from palghat but already some young generation in my greater family have married with palghat people. I have no choice but to speak on their behalf.

What will that palghat sastrigal, living in the heart of palghat say today . His daughter married a non brahmin against his will. Will he agree with you?

Sorry again , but your position makes no sense to me .
 
kunjuppu, it is not just cuisine. I too enjoy and can even cook Thanjavur recipes. What I meant was totally different. One should not lose one's moorings, one's roots. These are very important. We should each of us strive to preserve our cultures handed down through generations. And that includes accents, flavours, cuisines, habits, religious, secular practices, everything. When one migrates or even marries outside one's region, thee is always the danger of losing one or two or all aspects of our unique culture so painstakingly preserved and handed down to us by our ancestors. This is a very deep subject.

I have lived in Bombay (in that area called Matunga which is more Palakkad than Palakkad itself, more Mylapore than Mylapore itself). My mother never allowed us to speak Hindi at home. It had to be Palakkad Tamil, our dialect. Whereas in other Matunga homes you could hear sentences like "anda darwAjAva bandh paNNu" instead of " anda kadava shAthu", we in our home were never allowed to corrupt our language. Today, there are Bombayites from Palakkad who freely use Hindi at home. Some even speak Hindi wholly at home. Probably they are ashamed of their dialect. I am not. This is the problem with people from the South settling in the North. It is worse with Delhiites. They have almost wholly encompassed Hindi, which is sad.

There are many dialects that have died for want of people who speak that tongue. It is because of people who adopt other languages as their own that their dialects are dying a slow death. Those who have settled down in Madras mostly speak Madras Tamil. It is all right outside the house. But at home we should preserve our tongue, our unique practices. So that our dialect does not die. Our cultures, unique to each region do not die. This is true for Thanjavur, Tirunelveli and Palakkad especially, since each of these three regions have certain unique cultural practices and that as I wrote before includes everything from cuisine, tongue, pujas (like the Bhagavati Seva with Palakkad people), temple rituals which vary from region to region, music which every Thanjorean had to imbibe. Everything. You think of anything that touches our life, you'll find the touch, the uniqueness of your partcular region. And this is our legacy. Let's think about these things very deeply.
 
My position does not make sense to you because you have not thought about it properly. You have just jumped to conclusions. Your flippancy is apparent when you say that 'by RaviSri's reasoning hereafter mumbai palghat vadamas should not marry chennai palghat vadams.' What do you mean by this? mumbai palghat or chennai palghat vadamas or brahacharanams do not make any sense. We have all gone to chennai or mumbai only for our livelihood. We don't become mumbai vadamas or chennai vadamas.

I was talking about where we originally belong to, Thanjavur or Tiruneloveli or Palakkad. What I meant was wherever we live, whether in mumbai, chennai, kolkata, delhi or washington, london etc., if you are originally from Tanjore you should marry only a Tanjorean, if you are from Palakkad, you should marry only a girl who belongs to Palakkad. My post is for serious people who can think seriously , not for flippant comments.

For those who have already married outside their region, I have nothing to say, except, please bring up your children in the best traditions of of your and your wife's/husband's regions. Thats all.
 
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