Tambrahms to become extinct by 2035

[prasad1]

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In the Hindu pantheon, soul has been very firmly eulogized. Soul is the most powerful; body, mind, and intellect, in comparison, are fleeting and transient, even an illusion. Our body and all material objects are in a constant state of change, but the soul is regarded as eternal and imperishable. Hindu philosophy envisages two types of bodies: the physical or gross body (called thul sarira) and the subtle, invisible body (called suksma sarira). Soul has been identified as the subtle, immortal, transcendental suksma sarira. Hindu seers have often referred to a conflict between heart and brain—not the anatomical heart in our bodies but the soul heart of the suksma sarira.
As Swami Vivekananda says: ”It is the heart which takes one to the highest plane, which intellect can never reach; it goes beyond intellect and what is called inspiration.”44
According to Hindu philosophy, soul is the eternal constituent, which is invisible and metaphysical in nature and acts as a vehicle for reincarnation from one body to another. It also carries within it the notation of the past karmas, as well as a genealogy map of our tendencies, the vasnas. It is these subtle karmic particles and vasnas that make the soul impure.
It is the eternal and transcendental phenomenon of the soul that kindles the flame of fearlessness, or abhay, in human beings. Lord Krishna tells Arjuna: “Thou art the reservoir of omnipotent power. Arise, awake and manifest the Divinity within.”45 Knowing the true self, the higher self, is true knowledge (called para vidya). Hindu seers are taught to disentangle themselves from the false, superficial ego-self (neti neti—“I am not this”) and instead, to assert, “I am that” (tat twam asi). Soul is the divine seed in each being.46 In Hindu society, it is in this recognition of the Divine in each being that even the poorest person or the lowest animal was revered in spiritual discourses.

WE have had discussion about Atma in this forum.

Hinduism ? Path of the Ancient Wisdom » CHAPTER 15

 

[prasad1]

Krishji,
We all are anonymous in this forum hiding behind our Avatar, we learn about each other only by reading their post.
I feel you have to read a little bit more about Hinduism.

Nine Beliefs of Hinduism


Our beliefs determine our thoughts and attitudes about life, which in turn direct our actions. By our actions, we create our destiny. Beliefs about sacred matters--God, soul and cosmos--are essential to one's approach to life. Hindus believe many diverse things, but there are a few bedrock concepts on which most Hindus concur. The following nine beliefs, though not exhaustive, offer a simple summary of Hindu spirituality.




Hindus believe in a one, all-pervasive Supreme Being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.
Hindus believe in the divinity of the four Vedas, the world's most ancient scripture, and venerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's word and the bedrock of Sanatana Dharma, the eternal religion.
Hindus believe that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservation and dissolution.
Hindus believe in karma, the law of cause and effect by which each individual creates his own destiny by his thoughts, words and deeds.
Hindus believe that the soul reincarnates, evolving through many births until all karmas have been resolved, and moksha, liberation from the cycle of rebirth, is attained. Not a single soul will be deprived of this destiny.
Hindus believe that divine beings exist in unseen worlds and that temple worship, rituals, sacraments and personal devotionals create a communion with these devas and Gods.
Hindus believe that an enlightened master, or satguru, is essential to know the Transcendent Absolute, as are personal discipline, good conduct, purification, pilgrimage, self-inquiry, meditation and surrender in God.
Hindus believe that all life is sacred, to be loved and revered, and therefore practice ahimsa, noninjury, in thought, word and deed.
Hindus believe that no religion teaches the only way to salvation above all others, but that all genuine paths are facets of God's Light, deserving tolerance and understanding.


Hinduism, the world's oldest religion, has no beginning--it precedes recorded history. It has no human founder. It is a mystical religion, leading the devotee to personally experience the Truth within, finally reaching the pinnacle of consciousness where man and God are one. Hinduism has four main denominations--Saivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism and Smartism.

Of course there are other fringe groups like Charvakas and others with their own belief systems. Hinduism does give a lot of latitude but to mingle Christian and Islamic ideas is done out of ignorance or mischief.
Good luck.

 

[sravna]

So are you suggesting a get together of a different kind..I need a preacher..you coming?LOL

Why not? Let's teach them some lessons.

 

[renuka]

Sravna,

I am replying your post in the Get Together thread. see my reply there.

 

[thebigthinkg]

I meant 'Evolution will perish YOU'.

But on a still higher plane, you know Brahma also sleeps.. which means evolution ends and there is a night for this Universe after which there is a dawn with a Big Bang..

Why should TamBrahms not be the embodiments of sattvic life..? After all sattvic life is the key to evolve knowledge in any domain.

-TBT

 

[ashwin_ash]

Dear Renuka,

Definitely I wish Krish Ji lives a long life here.



Devils are good looking in a sexy way but angels can attract you in a more profound way. So don't be fooled.

So you wish Krish only has a long life in this forum and dies early in real life. Cool.

 

[Raji Ram]

So you wish Krish only has a long life in this forum and dies early in real life. Cool.

:nono: Krish Sir will live long to write in forum!

 

[sravna]

So you wish Krish only has a long life in this forum and dies early in real life. Cool.

Dear Ash,

Why the above interpretation? I meant in this world.

 

[krish44]

4

ashwin_ash says --- I feel neither pride nor shame in belonging to the community. It just happens I belong, and nothing more. It is cent percent correct.No one nowadays follows the traditional practices.But they want to be identified as brahmins.They even wears poonnal. But preaches others that heaven will fall if their ward marries a non brahmin boy and when it happens in his house he is proud to compromise.Wonderful tribe.

wrongan ji
I am with ash when he says it happens that I belong to brahmin community and would like to be identified with brahmin.I do not follow most of the traditional practices. Also I do not have a poonal and never went thru the ceremony. I compromised with my son when he wanted go thru the ceremony when his girl friend insisted on him to have the ceremony as a precondition to marriage. I told one of my relatives to help him fulfill his girl friends condition. however ,I offered to be a witness in case he wanted. frankly I would have accepted my sons choice irrespective of caste . My DIL turned out to be a brahmin and again it is a matter of chance. I do not think it is a compromise to wed someone from non brahmin caste. what matters are the qualifications of the person and ability to integrate with my family. I have been lucky in this regard

 

[Vaagmi]

OMG Sravna!

Instead of wishing Krish ji long life to see a 100 autumns you asking him to go to heaven?LOL

Sravna..isnt heaven boring?

One has to be a goody two shoes there.

The party,booze and babes/dudes are always in hell!LOL

BTW the Devil is always so good looking compared to any angel!

Booze may not be there. But babes/dudes and good time may be there in heaven too. Babes and dudes go to heaven too if they are good babes and dudes on earth. They will go to hell only if they are bad here.

 

[krish44]

interesting post prasad ji thank you

 

[ashwin_ash]

wrongan ji
I am with ash when he says it happens that I belong to brahmin community and would like to be identified with brahmin.I do not follow most of the traditional practices. Also I do not have a poonal and never went thru the ceremony. I compromised with my son when he wanted go thru the ceremony when his girl friend insisted on him to have the ceremony as a precondition to marriage. I told one of my relatives to help him fulfill his girl friends condition. however ,I offered to be a witness in case he wanted. frankly I would have accepted my sons choice irrespective of caste . My DIL turned out to be a brahmin and again it is a matter of chance. I do not think it is a compromise to wed someone from non brahmin caste. what matters are the qualifications of the person and ability to integrate with my family. I have been lucky in this regard

Dear Krish,

The person whom Tambrams revere the most, Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi, advised Brahmins to wear the poonal like a garland. He has said so in his book "Hindu Dharma" published by Bhavan's. And he has wonderfully expounded even the atheistic schools of thought. Yet Brahmins continue to stick to the old adage "Nunal than vayal kedum"- something to do with obstinate toads.

Btw, I was pulling Sravna's leg. No offense meant to you or anyone else.

 

[krish44]

Booze may not be there. But babes/dudes and good time may be there in heaven too. Babes and dudes go to heaven too if they are good babes and dudes on earth. They will go to hell only if they are bad here.

sravna ji
Good to know that babe/dudes are available in heaven . I heard there are pretty angels too. if some liquor is added I might opt for heaven. otherwise Hell is OK with me. as R says even devils are good looking . Have you seen the devil in ONIDA TV ads

 

[krish44]

Krishji,
We all are anonymous in this forum hiding behind our Avatar, we learn about each other only by reading their post.
I feel you have to read a little bit more about Hinduism.

Nine Beliefs of Hinduism


Our beliefs determine our thoughts and attitudes about life, which in turn direct our actions. By our actions, we create our destiny. Beliefs about sacred matters--God, soul and cosmos--are essential to one's approach to life. Hindus believe many diverse things, but there are a few bedrock concepts on which most Hindus concur. The following nine beliefs, though not exhaustive, offer a simple summary of Hindu spirituality.




Hindus believe in a one, all-pervasive Supreme Being who is both immanent and transcendent, both Creator and Unmanifest Reality.
Hindus believe in the divinity of the four Vedas, the world's most ancient scripture, and venerate the Agamas as equally revealed. These primordial hymns are God's word and the bedrock of Sanatana Dharma, the eternal religion.
Hindus believe that the universe undergoes endless cycles of creation, preservation and dissolution.
Hindus believe in karma, the law of cause and effect by which each individual creates his own destiny by his thoughts, words and deeds.
Hindus believe that the soul reincarnates, evolving through many births until all karmas have been resolved, and moksha, liberation from the cycle of rebirth, is attained. Not a single soul will be deprived of this destiny.
Hindus believe that divine beings exist in unseen worlds and that temple worship, rituals, sacraments and personal devotionals create a communion with these devas and Gods.
Hindus believe that an enlightened master, or satguru, is essential to know the Transcendent Absolute, as are personal discipline, good conduct, purification, pilgrimage, self-inquiry, meditation and surrender in God.
Hindus believe that all life is sacred, to be loved and revered, and therefore practice ahimsa, noninjury, in thought, word and deed.
Hindus believe that no religion teaches the only way to salvation above all others, but that all genuine paths are facets of God's Light, deserving tolerance and understanding.


Hinduism, the world's oldest religion, has no beginning--it precedes recorded history. It has no human founder. It is a mystical religion, leading the devotee to personally experience the Truth within, finally reaching the pinnacle of consciousness where man and God are one. Hinduism has four main denominations--Saivism, Shaktism, Vaishnavism and Smartism.

Of course there are other fringe groups like Charvakas and others with their own belief systems. Hinduism does give a lot of latitude but to mingle Christian and Islamic ideas is done out of ignorance or mischief.
Good luck.

thanks for educating me prasad ji. Perhaps I do not qualify to be a true Hindu. but I like the lot of space in hindu religion for all who do not follow the commandments of hindu religion strictly.

 

[sravna]

sravna ji
Good to know that babe/dudes are available in heaven . I heard there are pretty angels too. if some liquor is added I might opt for heaven. otherwise Hell is OK with me. as R says even devils are good looking . Have you seen the devil in ONIDA TV ads

Dear Shri Krish,

Did you see the Get together thread? A get together has been planned at heaven between those at heaven and those at hell. I have been asked to conduct some classes for those from hell by Renuka Ji. You need to learn to be without liquor and babes because the only fun from now on will be to watch how people from hell turn good after trying all the tricks possible to remain bad.

 

[krish44]

Dear Krish,

The person whom Tambrams revere the most, Chandrasekharendra Saraswathi, advised Brahmins to wear the poonal like a garland. He has said so in his book "Hindu Dharma" published by Bhavan's. And he has wonderfully expounded even the atheistic schools of thought. Yet Brahmins continue to stick to the old adage "Nunal than vayal kedum"- something to do with obstinate toads.

Btw, I was pulling Sravna's leg. No offense meant to you or anyone else.

Ash I understand you yaar.{using Rs expression]. Sravna ji is a serious person spreading spirituality. he is enlightening me that rituals ,going to temples are not a pre requirement for becoming spiritual in thought and behaviour. who knows I might believe him . I may give up my wayward ways .and find solace in spiritualism

 

[ashwin_ash]

Ash I understand you yaar.{using Rs expression]. Sravna ji is a serious person spreading spirituality. he is enlightening me that rituals ,going to temples are not a pre requirement for becoming spiritual in thought and behaviour. who knows I might believe him . I may give up my wayward ways .and find solace in spiritualism

You can find solace even in your wayward ways so long as you exercise control. The religion is big enough to accommodate all views and opinions. Spirits are good in moderation.

 

[krish44]

[Vaagmi QUOTE. A reservation system which was brought in while drafting the constitution to help the really exploited people was one such noble idea. It has been completely sabotaged and wrecked from inside by the mobocracy which got it extended liberally to the exploiters too. And it is derisively referred to as “not withstanding the usual(?) grumblings about the reservation system” here by Sri Sangom. .

On reservations, happened to read the view of Congress senior leader Dwivedi..He wants reservations to be only based on financial status and he would like caste based reservations to end..A welcome change..But will Congreass High Command accept his views...Is this feasible in our country?

Dwivedi seeks end to caste-based reservation - The Hindu[/QUOTE]
It might be a ploy to get all castes to vote for the congress . i wish caste or religion based politics comes to an end for the sake of the country.I will shift my vote from AAP to other parties if such a thing happens. citizens will get a wider choice for voting

 

[wrongan]

When I was in US I had an oppertunity to discuss on several social aspects with a renowned socialogists and others at Providance.They told me so"In America in the battle between black and white we fought for parity and we achieved it honourably but In India you fight for priority (over so called upper cast ) which you will never achieve.When talented persons are migrating to other countries in search of green pastures and they are rewarded suitably(microsoft top postings)We Indians encourage brain drain in the name of social justice.already we are paying the price. eg BSNL P&T RAILWAYS Time has come to do away with reservation as the desired result was not achieved even after 65 years.

 

[sarang]

Two days ago, an executive of BHEL tiruchy said that out of 40000 megawatt order for power plant installation in the country, BHEL did not get even one mw order.

When I was in US I had an oppertunity to discuss on several social aspects with a renowned socialogists and others at Providance.They told me so"In America in the battle between black and white we fought for parity and we achieved it honourably but In India you fight for priority (over so called upper cast ) which you will never achieve.When talented persons are migrating to other countries in search of green pastures and they are rewarded suitably(microsoft top postings)We Indians encourage brain drain in the name of social justice.already we are paying the price. eg BSNL P&T RAILWAYS Time has come to do away with reservation as the desired result was not achieved even after 65 years.

 

[tks]

When I was in US I had an oppertunity to discuss on several social aspects with a renowned socialogists and others at Providance.They told me so"In America in the battle between black and white we fought for parity and we achieved it honourably but In India you fight for priority (over so called upper cast ) which you will never achieve.When talented persons are migrating to other countries in search of green pastures and they are rewarded suitably(microsoft top postings)We Indians encourage brain drain in the name of social justice.already we are paying the price. eg BSNL P&T RAILWAYS Time has come to do away with reservation as the desired result was not achieved even after 65 years.

Actually it is more than brain drain in my view...

I know there are few people here that cannot stand the word Varna and only know the maligned meaning of the word Brahmin as defined by those who did not understand the meaning of that word.

Caste is an invention by outsiders to destroy India in my view, and while caste identity is prevalent in India today it is a term we want to get rid of if possible.

Varna classification was defined with the intent of achieving checks and balances between orthogonal categories of power - namely Knowledge & teaching for promoting knowledge in a society, direct power of physical strength & army needed for defense, power of commerce for prosperity and power of direct labor for realization of all things of physical value.

By not allowing all power to be centered in one person or group it was possible achieve a more sustainable society. While this ideal was never achieved there was good intent behind such a value system and sustained due to mutual respect for the orthogonal categories of power. Each power groups had their own Varna-Dharma but overall subjected to 'Samanya Dharma' applicable to all beings. The so called Moksha which is the ultimate goal of human life in Hindu thinking was NOT denied to anyone notwithstanding how they are born.

The outcaste and Mlechas from what I understand were defined to be those not falling into the above categories and those that did not follow any Dharma.

Such a kind of ideal for equal division of power is seen in many institutions. In USA for example there are three orthogonal and independent center of power in branches of government - legislative (enacting laws), executive (execute laws) and Judiciary (interpret law in situations) with 'constitution document' being the highest source of power giving rise to these branches. The constitutions by and large embodies many aspects of Samanya Dharma in my understanding.

The Knowledge class had special duty to interpret and teach Varna Dharma and given the interpretation nature of this is therefore subject to change with time. The Samanya Dharma based on universal principles are applicable regardless of place or time. There are many writing about Varna based Dharma in our scriptures that are now obsolete. The Varna is destroyed with Caste having taken over the organization is part of the cause.

The best way to kill a society is to destroy the people that are the knowledge people. With emergence of caste identity, the Brahmin Varna is almost destroyed. The running away of those having any of the value system of Brahmin Varna itself is not bad for India . But what has become bad in India is that the quota system promoting incompetence.

New classes of 'knowledge people' can emerge and it need not be those carrying the Brahmin caste tag but for that to happen the system has to be fair and must require competence.

How a competence is measured has to change to accommodate inclusion of large number of people from unstructured society many of which are unfortunately still referred to as Dalits. But the system of government has to value merit in the end - otherwise a society cannot prosper.

I see a parallel in USA that is destroying one part of its knowledge class. The Professors of first rate institutions have become beggars trying to find funds for research. Both my children are doing PhD at MIT and hence I know first hand how many Professors there get themselves funded. This premier school keeps the funding level high by forging all kinds of collaborations with other governments outside USA who pay big money for associations with a big name of the school.

Many new PhD students with great potential for research do not want academic jobs. Institutions like NASA, Bell Laboratories and many other fine R&D institutions have collapsed giving rise to tactical R&D to make defense equipment. This is a sure way to kill the thinking and innovating class and will lead to the country's greatness being diminished significantly.

If Brahmins holding that caste name only are running away due to systematic actions of the government then so be it. There is no way to reverse this. But a system of government must embrace merit for long term prosperity. Rather than provide quota handouts, what is needed is outreach to create opportunities so that the so called Dalits of today can be part of the knowledge class tomorrow. The outreach in early stages of admission to good schools has to include new metrics to measure character and competence. Today's metrics and exams are designed to keep the power with those running the country namely the middle castes.

Right now all we see is systematic destruction of a class that who could potentially help turn the country around. There are still many Satvic people who embrace Samanya Dharma and who have the desire by and large to improve the country and the world. I hope such people that include many Brahmins and NB are not driven away by the actions of the rulers from middle castes.

 

[krish44]

Actually it is more than brain drain in my view...

I know there are few people here that cannot stand the word Varna and only know the maligned meaning of the word Brahmin as defined by those who did not understand the meaning of that word.

Caste is an invention by outsiders to destroy India in my view, and while caste identity is prevalent in India today it is a term we want to get rid of if possible.

Varna classification was defined with the intent of achieving checks and balances between orthogonal categories of power - namely Knowledge & teaching for promoting knowledge in a society, direct power of physical strength & army needed for defense, power of commerce for prosperity and power of direct labor for realization of all things of physical value.

By not allowing all power to be centered in one person or group it was possible achieve a more sustainable society. While this ideal was never achieved there was good intent behind such a value system and sustained due to mutual respect for the orthogonal categories of power. Each power groups had their own Varna-Dharma but overall subjected to 'Samanya Dharma' applicable to all beings. The so called Moksha which is the ultimate goal of human life in Hindu thinking was NOT denied to anyone notwithstanding how they are born.

The outcaste and Mlechas from what I understand were defined to be those not falling into the above categories and those that did not follow any Dharma.

Such a kind of ideal for equal division of power is seen in many institutions. In USA for example there are three orthogonal and independent center of power in branches of government - legislative (enacting laws), executive (execute laws) and Judiciary (interpret law in situations) with 'constitution document' being the highest source of power giving rise to these branches. The constitutions by and large embodies many aspects of Samanya Dharma in my understanding.

The Knowledge class had special duty to interpret and teach Varna Dharma and given the interpretation nature of this is therefore subject to change with time. The Samanya Dharma based on universal principles are applicable regardless of place or time. There are many writing about Varna based Dharma in our scriptures that are now obsolete. The Varna is destroyed with Caste having taken over the organization is part of the cause.

The best way to kill a society is to destroy the people that are the knowledge people. With emergence of caste identity, the Brahmin Varna is almost destroyed. The running away of those having any of the value system of Brahmin Varna itself is not bad for India . But what has become bad in India is that the quota system promoting incompetence.

New classes of 'knowledge people' can emerge and it need not be those carrying the Brahmin caste tag but for that to happen the system has to be fair and must require competence.

How a competence is measured has to change to accommodate inclusion of large number of people from unstructured society many of which are unfortunately still referred to as Dalits. But the system of government has to value merit in the end - otherwise a society cannot prosper.

I see a parallel in USA that is destroying one part of its knowledge class. The Professors of first rate institutions have become beggars trying to find funds for research. Both my children are doing PhD at MIT and hence I know first hand how many Professors there get themselves funded. This premier school keeps the funding level high by forging all kinds of collaborations with other governments outside USA who pay big money for associations with a big name of the school.

Many new PhD students with great potential for research do not want academic jobs. Institutions like NASA, Bell Laboratories and many other fine R&D institutions have collapsed giving rise to tactical R&D to make defense equipment. This is a sure way to kill the thinking and innovating class and will lead to the country's greatness being diminished significantly.

If Brahmins holding that caste name only are running away due to systematic actions of the government then so be it. There is no way to reverse this. But a system of government must embrace merit for long term prosperity. Rather than provide quota handouts, what is needed is outreach to create opportunities so that the so called Dalits of today can be part of the knowledge class tomorrow. The outreach in early stages of admission to good schools has to include new metrics to measure character and competence. Today's metrics and exams are designed to keep the power with those running the country namely the middle castes.

Right now all we see is systematic destruction of a class that who could potentially help turn the country around. There are still many Satvic people who embrace Samanya Dharma and who have the desire by and large to improve the country and the world. I hope such people that include many Brahmins and NB are not driven away by the actions of the rulers from middle castes.

very interesting post TKSji
I like the sentence- the system has to value merit in the end -otherwise a society cannot prosper.The migration of brahmins to Us sarted in late fifties and early sixties. It was not because of reservations alone . then it was .only 22percent. for sc/sts Brahmins.left india for better pastures abroad not because of discriminations alone. many are returning now since working oppurtunities in MNCs in knowledge and other fields are good.
funding for research specially fundamental is bad everywhere including India . brahmins get good edu. oppurtunities in private institutions for a price. due to sheer force of large numbers more persons of merit will get generated from all communities. brahmins are not repositeries of all knowledge. others can also contribute. those who have gone abroad will be the ultimate losers .they have lost their roots and have to get adjusted to a society totally different from them . their next next generation are paying the price of follies of older generation

 

[vgane]

The Telegraph, Kolkata, reports that the central government is 'setting up a fertility centre for married Parsi couples at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences to boost the community's numbers through its Jiyo Parsi scheme'.


The first of its kind, the centre is expected to be operational from next week

Late marriages, marriages outside the community, emigration and separation are the chief causes for the decline in Parsi population,”

About 30 per cent of Parsis remain single. Another 30 per cent is aged above 60.Of Parsis who marry, 35 per cent choose partners from other communities

Does it not similar to what we have been discussing about TamBrahms!

Fertility clinic to boost Parsi count​

 

[krish44]

The Telegraph, Kolkata, reports that the central government is 'setting up a fertility centre for married Parsi couples at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences to boost the community's numbers through its Jiyo Parsi scheme'.


The first of its kind, the centre is expected to be operational from next week

Late marriages, marriages outside the community, emigration and separation are the chief causes for the decline in Parsi population,”

About 30 per cent of Parsis remain single. Another 30 per cent is aged above 60.Of Parsis who marry, 35 per cent choose partners from other communities

Does it not similar to what we have been discussing about TamBrahms!

Fertility clinic to boost Parsi count​

vgane ji
It is highly unlikely that TBs headcount will reduce and TBs will require fertility clinics. They have survived centuries. They will think up of schemes to boost up their numbers. They may go away to exotic places to multiply faster and become a threat to others. see how many are going to vacation in foreign places. They will dilute their hard specs and marry other brahmins from all over india and whole world. In course of time they will demand a separate homeland like the jews.

 

[ashwin_ash]

vgane ji
It is highly unlikely that TBs headcount will reduce and TBs will require fertility clinics. They have survived centuries. They will think up of schemes to boost up their numbers. They may go away to exotic places to multiply faster and become a threat to others. see how many are going to vacation in foreign places. They will dilute their hard specs and marry other brahmins from all over india and whole world. In course of time they will demand a separate homeland like the jews.

While many tambram girls are very pretty, the same cannot be said of several. Inbreeding and other factors have led to compromised looks in several tambram girls, and once they realize they can't find a tambram boy (not all are handsome, and the numbers are low anyway), they marry NBs. Fertility centers are not a solution, the acceptance that the community may vanish might be a possible solution.