Brahmin Girls Marrying (Attracted towards) NB Boys

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

dear Mr. Hoover

Is your name a short form of "Who ever?"

I am just kidding

You are right!

United we stand, divided we fall!

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

அன்புள்ள ஐயா,

தாங்கள் மேற்கோள் காட்டியது என் சொற்கள் அல்ல!

# 817 ஐ ஒரு முறை மீண்டும் பார்க்கவும்.

கொம்பு முளைத்தால் அவர்கள் பெயர் பிராமணர் என்பதில் இருந்து மாறி
ஆடு / மாடு / எருமை / காளை / பசு என்று மாறிவிடும். நீங்கள் அறியாததா?

"பெண்கள் விடுதலை அடையட்டும்" என்பதை விட "விடுதலை அடைந்து
வீழட்டும்" என்று கூறினால் மிகவும் பொருத்தமாக இருக்கும்.

காதலனைக் கைப் பிடித்தவள் அந்தக் கையை பாதியிலேயே விட்டுவிடுவது என்?

ஒரு விரலால் ஒருவரைச் சுட்டிக் காட்டினால், மூன்று விரல்கள் காட்டுபவரையே சுட்டும்.

ஐந்து விரல்கள் உள்ள எந்தக் கைக்கும் இந்த விதி பொருந்தும்.

கோபத்தை ஒதுக்கிவிட்டு அமைதியாக சிந்தியுங்கள்!
வணக்கம்.
V.r.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. K.R.S,

I sincerely wish that you will brush up your TamiL' soon.

You must read my simple poems in TamiL' and give me your opinion.

You must be knowing the expression "paanakaththil thurumbu"-something that disturbs a smooth flow of enjoyment.

Your mail has the reverse effect. It IS the paanakam in a tumbler full of thurumbu!

Every time i see your name, i fondly remember my brother who has the same initials

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear friends,

While every one replies to the thread, here is a person who repeatedly records his views in my blog!

I don't owe a reply to these kinds of allegations! (K. P. case?)

Who ever has the energy and time please take up this task.

I will thank you with all my heart and wish your efforts success!

V.R.
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
//பிராமணர்களை அம்மாஞ்சி போலவும் மற்றவர்களை ஹீரோவாகவும் சித்தரிக்கும் திரைப் படங்களை விசில் அடித்து முதல் நாள் முதல் ஷோ பார்த்து புளகம் அடைவது யார்?/ ப்ராமணர் அல்லாதவர்கள். இது கூட உங்களுக்குத் தெரியவில்லையென்றால் நம்மைச் சுற்றி என்ன நடக்கிறது என்றே தெரியாத உங்களைப் போன்ற அம்மாஞ்சிப் பெண்கள் தான் விழிப்புணர்ச்சி இல்லாமல் சொந்த குல கலாச்சாரத்தை இழக்கிறீர்கள். பிள்ளைகளுக்கும் சொல்லிக்கொடுக்க மறக்கிறீர்கள் எனலாம்.

//பெண்களின் கருப்பையை என் போன்ற பிற பெண்களா கவர முடியும்?// ஏதோ நீங்கள் கவர்ந்து விட்டீர்கள் என்று குற்றம் சாட்டியது போல அல்லவா பேசுகிறீர்கள். உங்களைப் போன்ற பென்கள் பிற பெண்களுக்கு எடுத்துச் சொல்லி, சொந்த வீட்டுப் பெண்களுக்கும் புரிய வைத்து கலாச்சாரத்தை காக்க வேண்டும் என்கிறேன்.

//கட்டுக்கோப்புடன் தங்கைகளையும் தமக்கைகளையும் காப்பாற்ற முடியாத ஆண்கள் மற்றவர்கள் மேல் கோபம் கொள்ளுவது என்?// காப்பாற்ற முடியாத ஆண்கள் என்று ஆண்கள் மீது பழியை போட்டு நீங்கள் மட்டும் தப்பிக்கப் பார்க்கிறீர்களா? என்ன அயோக்கியத்தனம். பெண் சுதந்திரம், பெண் உரிமை என்றெல்லாம் கூறி பெற்றார்களுக்கோ வீட்டுக்கோ பெண்கள் கட்டுப்பட்டு நடக்காத நிலைமையை உங்களைப் போன்ற பெண்கள் தானே ஏற்படுத்தினீர்கள். பெத்த அம்மா அப்பாவிற்கே அடங்க மறுத்து ஆட்டம் போடும் பெண்கள் தான் ஜாஸ்தி. ப்ராமண குடும்பங்களில் இருந்து வேறு ஜாதி ஆண்களுடன் ஓடிப்போவதும் வேறு ஜாதி ஆண்களை காதலிப்பதையே பெருமையாக நினைப்பதும் ப்ராமணப் பெண்கள் தான். ப்ராமண ஆண்கள் 40 வயதிலும் கூட எங்காவது ஒரு ப்ராமண பெண் தனக்காக கிடைத்து விட மாட்டாளா என்று இருக்கிறான். ஆனால் ப்ராமணப் பெண்களோ பணமும் படாடோபமும் இருந்தால் எந்த ஜாதிக்காரனுடனும் ஓடத் தயாராக இருக்கிறார்கள். அதற்கு சினிமாவும் ஒரு காரணம் . அதை உங்களைப் போன்ற பெண்கள் அதைப் பற்றி விழிப்படைய வேண்டும் என்று தான் இவற்றை எழுதுகிறேன் தவிற கோபப்பட அல்ல.

//இன்றைக்கே எல்லா ஆண்களும் பெண்களும் உறுதி எடுத்துக்கொள்ளுங்கள்!
பிராமணரை அன்றி வேறு எவரையும் மணப்பது இல்லை என்று.// அதை பெண்கள் மனதில் விதைக்க ஒரு ப்ராமணப் பெண்ணாக நீங்கள் முயற்சியுங்கள். அதை விட்டு விட்டு ப்ராமணப் பெண்கள் வேறு ஜாதி ஆண்கள் மீது எதைப் பார்த்தெல்லாம் ஆசைப்படுகிறார்கள் பாருங்கள் என்று புள்ளி விபரம் போட்டு வெட்கமில்லாமல் புலகாங்கிதம் அடைந்து கொள்ளாதீர்கள்.

//நீங்களும் சுரணை கெட்ட பிராமணக் கூட்டத்தில் ஒருவர் என்பதை மறக்க வேண்டாம்.// சுரணை இருபதால் தான் உங்கள் பதிவில் எதிர் மொழி இட்டேன். உங்களுக்கு சுரணை இருந்தால் இப்படி ப்ராமணப் பெண்கள் பாதை மாறி போவதை புள்ளிவிபரங்கள் போட்டு பெருமைப்பட்டுக் கொள்ளாமல் பெண்களுக்கு புத்தி சொல்லும் வழியைப் பாருங்கள். இப்படி இன்னும் எத்தனை ப்ராமண கிறுக்குகளைத் திருத்த வேண்டுமோ தெரியவில்லை! தலையெழுத்து. ப்ராமண குலம் அழிவதற்குள் திருந்துங்கள். விழிப்படையுங்கள்.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Who ever you may be!

பிராமணக் கிறுக்குகளைத் திருத்த ஒரு
பிராமணக் கிறுக்கனால் முடியுமா? சொல்!

 

[Iyyarooraan]

I want some clarifications.
from non-tambram lot. Both will have to undergo some extra suffering.
Who are the "நாங்களே"?

Who are the "அவர்களும்"?

Who are the "மாற்றார் பெண்கள"?

Who are the " வீரர்"?

which is the "அழிவுப்பாதை"?

If choosing a life partner is the right of everyone, why do we waste time in discussing and disapproving the mixed caste weddings?

Why should we worry that brahmins will become extinct in the next two generations?Will the N.B girls who marry Tambram become brahmins naturally?

Naangale? - Tambram boys alone (2) Avarkalum? - non-tambram boys (3) Maatrar pengal? - daughters of non-tambrams (4) Veerargal? - the supposed 'Brave and Heroic' non-tambram boys (5) Azhivupaadai? - those who go out of the community will find life more difficult and demanding than they had experienced in the tambram community.The comparison can go on if one would only like to know. Tambram boys are more courageous, adventurous and hardworking. A study of tambram demography outside TN, India and abroad will prove that. Madam it is not that sword-wielding man is only brave (I would call him a frightened man) but one who undergoes lot of suffering and still survive with bruises. There are cases where brother/s have left the family in lurch, father has done that and why of all the holy, mother, has left. These are stray cases bound to be there in God's scheme of things. I am afraid you have not come across innumerable brothers and sons, and why daughters also, have sacrificed every thing for the family. You know our MEN have maintained distant cousins also. The point is the tambram boys are not less courageous or heroic. Forget about the TV serials ( I will only call them TV Twists) because money making thro TRP is the name of the game. Read my lines with a sense of humour. Humour is mostly born out of helplessness. Nobody is in a position to do anything. Whatever you attempt may become against law if you know the state of mind of the children (girls) or the limit of their tolerance. Otherwise these exercises are just an attempt to blow the conch so that if and when it dawns, it will. One more explanation. It is better to have an experienced hand than bring in a raw hand because both will have to undergo some extra suffering. I have not attempted to hurt anyone but made to protest in my way.

 

[senthil]

@nara

நமது தமிழினப் புதுமைப் பெண்கள் இவ்விதமான பிற்போக்கு வாதத்திற்கு என்றும் இணங்க மாட்டாள்

என்றிலிருந்து பிராமணப் பெண்கள் தமிழினப் பெண்களாக மாறினார்கள்.. உங்கள் தமிழ் இன வெறி உங்களை அறியாமலேயே வெளிவந்துவிட்டதோ?

ஐயோ! பெண்கள் வெறும் கருப்பைகள் அல்ல. அவர்களின் கருப்பைகள் மற்றோர் எவருடைய சொத்தும் அல்ல, அதை காப்பாற்றுவதர்க்கு.

ஆம்.. பெண்களின் கருப்பை எவருடைய சொந்தமும் இல்லை.. அது பொது சொத்து.. அதனால் தான், @nara வின் இந்த நவீன உலகிலே பெண்களின் ஒவ்வொரு உறுப்பையும் கூறு போட்டு "விளம்பரம்" என்ற பெயரில் விற்று கொண்டிருக்கிறார்கள்.. அப்படி செஞ்சாத்தான் சமத்துவம்.. இல்லைனா அது பெண்களின் மேல் உள்ள அடக்குமுறை.. இதுதான், அந்த சித்தாந்த வெறியர்களின் சட்டம்..

ஜாதி என்ற பெயரால் பெண்களை சிறையிடுவது மிகக் கொடுமை. நெஞ்சில் உறமும் இன்றி, அதில் சிறுது ஈரமும் இன்றி, பெண்களை உங்கள் ஜாதி வெறிக்கு பலியிட நினைப்பது மிக்க இழிவான எண்ணம்.

ஐயா நாரா அவர்களே.. சித்தாந்தம் என்ற பெயராலும் சமத்துவம் என்ற பெயராலும் செய்யப்படும் அட்டூழியங்களும் சிந்தனை அடக்குமுறைகளும்தான் இழிவானது.. ஜாதி அல்ல.. ஜாதிக்குள்ளே கட்டுப்பாடுகள் இருந்தாலும் அதில் ஒரு தர்மம் இருக்கிறது.. ஆனால், இந்த சித்தாந்த வாதிகளுக்கும் சமத்துவ வாதிகளுக்கும், எந்த ஒரு தர்மமும் கிடையாது.. வன்முறைகளும், படுகொலைகளும் தான் அவர்களுக்கு தெரிந்தது..

இப்போது நீங்க செய்து கொண்டிருப்பது, சிந்தனை ரீதியான வன்முறை.. உங்கள் கற்பனை வளத்தை பயன்படுத்தி, இருக்கிற ஜாதியை பிற்போக்குதனம் என்றும், இழிவானது என்றும், வெறி என்றும், இன்னும் பலவாறாக, கேவலப்படுத்துவது, ஒட்டு மொத்த சமுதாயத்தை மீதும் ஏவப்படும் கொடூர சிந்தனை வன்முறை..

நாவினாற் சுட்ட வடு என்றைக்கும் ஆறாது.. நீங்கள் செய்வது, நாவினால் செய்யும் கொடூரமான வன்முறை..

அவளை பலவிதமான யுக்திகளைக்கொண்டு ஒடுக்க நீங்கள் முயற்சிக்கலாம். அவற்றிலிருந்து வெற்றியுடன் விடுதலை அடையவேண்டும் என நான் அவர்களை வாழ்த்துகிறேன்.

அதாவது, தந்தையின் உழைப்பிலே வந்த காசில், படித்து பட்டம் வாங்கி, அதை வைத்து ஒரு வேலையும் வாங்கிக் கொண்டு, பின்பு அவர்களை தூக்கி எறிந்துவிட்டு எவனோ ஒருவனுக்கு பின்னால், தன் சுகத்துக்காகவும் சுய நலத்துக்காகவும் போவது பெண்ணுரிமை.. பச்சை நன்றிக்கெட்டதனத்தை பெண்ணுரிமை என்ற போர்வையில் வக்காலத்து வாங்குவது..
அதான் ஏற்கனவே சொன்னேனே.. இந்த சமத்துவவாதிகளுக்கு சுய நலத்த தவிர வேறெதுவும் கண்ணுக்கு படாது..

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Iyyarooraan,

Either you are ambiguous or I am old and out dated!

My father had educated his three younger brothers, got them employed and married. He took care of them till we (his five children) were ready for college and marriage.

He used to maintain his distant relatives by sending money for their monthly maitainance.

I have nieces, nephews and cousins who are still unmarried with no prospect of ever getting married. The reason... they had to take care of either their father or mother for life.

It is not that every person lives a rosy life or on a bed of roses.

But running away from the family, is not the solution be it for a brother or sister or mother or father.

Disappearing or committing suicide looks like the easy way out but what about the people left behind?

Each one in a family is tied to all the others by invisible strings. We should always think as to how our actions will affect the rest of our family.

Before I close one final clarification. What or who is the experienced person you have referred to?
with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Sri.Visalakshi Ramani sounds as if she does not agree with Sri.Senthil. But in fact, Sri.Senthil writes in support of Sow.Visalakshi Ramani. I can see his point of view loud and clear. Sri.Senthil's point of view is not castiest in anyway. He looks at caste brahmins as like minded, group with similar living styles. To start with, there should be a closely formed group; then only one can worry about the moral ethics etc that should be followed by such a group. I am surprised to see the lack of support for Sri.Senthil.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

“பெற்றோர் என்போர் பணம் காய்ச்சி மரம்;
மற்றோர் எல்லாம் தன் ஊழியர் படை;

தானே அண்ட சராசரங்களின் மையம்;
தனக்கெனவே பிறந்தது இப்பரந்த பூமி!”

இங்ஙனம் எண்ணியபடி, பிறருடைய
உழைப்பு, நேரம், திறமை, பொருள்

இவற்றை மனச் சஞ்சலம் இன்றியே
உறிஞ்சுபவர்களும் இங்கு திருடர்களே!

தினை விதைத்தால் தினைதான் முளைக்கும்.
வினையை விதைத்தால் என்ன முளைக்கும்?

மனித நேயம், நேர்மை, பண்பு இவற்றை
மனத்துள் இளமையில் விதைக்க வேண்டும்.

ஞானம் என்பதே இல்லாமல் வளர்த்தால்,
ஊனம் கொண்ட மனத்துடனேயே வளர்ந்து,

நேரம் பார்த்து நெஞ்சில் உதைப்பார் தம்
நெருங்கிய உறவினரின் கூட்டத்தையே!

Does this summarize the mentality of the selfish youngsters of today who care for nothing and no one?

 

[Raghy]

Respected members,

This is a very strange thread discussing about Brahmin girls attracted to NB boys. Each case is different. In some cases the parents are at fault by ruling with an iron fist or in some cases, not taking control of their children in anyway; children are at fault too by not taking the parents in confidence when they could or by selecting no such a reasonable mate due to infatuation. It is quite hard to talk in general when individual cases are different to each other.

We should not forget possibility theories too; when we we look at the possibilty due to majority exposure, caste brahmin girls/boys are exposed to more NB boys/girls. It is a fallacy to think that NB girls don't fall for caste brahmin boys; although most of the caste brahmnin boys are less well todo (they are) than most NB boys (Don't forget, percentage of caste brahmins is in the single digit; so, there can be more well to do NB boys than caste brahmin boys). We are not talking about that side of the story; caste brahmin boys do attract NB girls (Sri.Senthil Sir, I request your opinion on this, please).

Cheers!

 

[Nara]

தாங்கள் மேற்கோள் காட்டியது என் சொற்கள் அல்ல!
# 817 ஐ ஒரு முறை மீண்டும் பார்க்கவும்.

உங்களுடைய வார்த்தைகளைமட்டும் படித்து விட்டு பதில் எழுதிவிட்டேன். நீங்கள் வேறு ஒருவருக்கு பதில் அளித்திருக்கிறீர்கள் என்பதை கவனிக்கவில்லை. என் தவறுக்கு தாழ்மையுடன் மன்னிப்பு கேட்டுக்கொள்கிறேன்.

ஆனால், நான் என்னுடைய வார்த்தைகளிலிருந்து பின்வாங்கவில்லை, அவைகளை heyyram அவர்களுக்கு திசை திருப்புகிறேன். என் கண்டிப்பு அவரை எதிர்த்து, உங்களை அல்ல.

நன்றி

 

[Raghy]

Sow.Sri.Vishalakshi Ramani,

Does this summarize the mentality of the selfish youngsters of today who care for nothing and no one?

No. I am afraid not. I know five girls who married inter-caste (one was inter-religion). All the five son-in-laws support their parent-in-laws when they are in need. They are present without any formal notification or request, offering their help; so are the daughters (in one case, the parents of the bride are living with the ICM couple. The boy became complete vegetarian; gave up smoking; no more booze. Actually,personally I am very proud of that boy. His parents were lovely from the beginning). It is quite possible my exposure is very limited; but, I am speaking only from my observations.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Raghy,
Appearances are deceptive
Please read thread # 835.
Mr. Senthil and I say the same thing but in different words.
So you think we are contradicting each other!
When both of us are well wishers of Tambrams why should we oppose each other?
with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Raghy,

Now two sons/ daughters are alike! Now two households are alike.

Personal experience will have a lot of truth and be authentic!

So people who have the firsthand experience in mixed caste wedding should come forward and share their experiences and difficulties etc.

This will be an eye opener to the others.

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Raghy]

Sow. Sri. Visalakshi Ramani,

Greetings. I read post #835 by yourself. I stand corrected. I did not marry inter-caste. So, I do not have any first hand experience per se. But, three of my nieces and a nephew married inter-caste. I have not been to one of the nice's home. Of the other two, (case 1) one niece took up NB cooking practices while she stayed vegitarian (Toronto) ; the other niece (case 2) stayed vegetarian (Vellore) so did the NB husband and his mother too (may be they were vegetarian all the time any way, I don't know); My nephew stayed vegetarian and his Malaysian NB girl become one too (Melbourne); The other two girls are not related to me. In both cases, NB boys became vegetarians and in both cases, looked after the girl's parents and siblings as their own and helped them.

The above experiences, although very limited, were shared on Sow.Vishalakshi Ramani's request.

Cheers!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Raghy,

Your reports are promising.

In case 1, the husband did not force his wife to become a non vegetarian.
Good Guy!

In the other two cases the non vegetarians became vegetarians. Cool!

Hats off to those persons who treated their in laws as their own relatives.
I wish the world had more such persons!

Thank you for sparing some of your valuable time and accepting my request.
with warm regards,
V.R

 

[kunjuppu]

Iyerooran, and the person who deleted his irritant post to visalakshi:

i hope this post reply to the irritant poster will be contained in the context of this post.

A while ago, on one of those lazy afternoon I was travelling aimlessly in the web world, when I came across a random album of a tamil iyer wedding. People whom I don’t know but a wedding I am familiar with. The sight of the young couple, tired but glowing, having their post thali first lunch together, brought a few lumps in throat for there is a beauty in every wedding, loved or arranged.

Also poignant was a thought that briefly flashed in my mind, that in all probabilities my own children will not go through such elaborate ceremonies. Sentimental flashes aside, I soon came to the reality as to why I have always advocated simple marriages preferably a few minutes before a vikraham in a temple and exchanging garlands, rings and (ofcourse) a thali. My children have been programmed to such and I hope they keep it up, knowing fully well that none of them in all likelihood, will marry a tambrahm.

I have in my own ways, along the lines of a broad guideline – do’s and don’ts when choosing a partner. Admittedly mine is probably sky high liberal compared to the norms of this forum, but I should be prepared if any of my children go beyond that. for wherever, it appears, that we draw the line, the reality appears to be that the boundaries remain broken. Still, I think, for reference sake, it is good to draw limitations.

So, to folks like iyarooran and the irritant one who deleted his post to visalakshi, my reply to you sir, is even if even from the date of birth your children are brainwashed to marrying within the caste, there is something unknown called chemical reaction. I will call it love.

Though I have not experienced it myself, my children assure me, that it is one of the most beautiful experiences in life, and in most cases the parties have no control. To any two persons, who see each other all the time, think nothing of it, and one day, something spurts – a small extra pulse, and soon the pulse rate increases with each interaction and then it is absolute. Admittedly it is of physical nature at first, but it soon gives way to the gradual process of getting to know each other – likes, dislikes, family backgrounds, relatives, siblings, parents, and eventually such things as money, career ambitions, wanting to have children, etc etc.

How can you put a control on this? this couple I had mentioned in another posts, and who had to be hospitalized due to loss of weight, anemia and loss of appetite. There was only one word for it – love sickness. When a person is deprived or forcibly taken away from the object this intense feeling, and overwhelming sense of being taken over, and a mind pre occupied every second of the day with the thought of the paramour. The only cure for love sickness, is to let the couple BE. Give them the space to find their bearings and get settled in life.

What is the function of the parents here? They may not like it, especially the partner the girl choses, for whatever reasons. But they have no choice, for the worst crime that they can do, is to disown her or make her life hell. Many many tambram girls, out of respect, fear, affection, duty and what not towards their parents, would not venture into the path of love. These wretched girls, suppress their feelings, bow their head to consign their lives to someone selected for them, and go through life – lime robots, doing the right thing – but without cheer or fulfillment. Do we want this to our daughters? How can you control a mind? A feeling?

It is all well and good to say that the parents spend their money educating the daughters, gave them food, love, accommodation care and now it is payback time for the daughters to marry someone whom dad wishes. What logic is this? did the girls asked to be brought to this world? Is it not the actions of the mother father that caused their birth, their presence here? Do not the parents have the duty to do all the above mentioned parental roles? Is it right for them to expect something in return? That is the worst reason for being a parent. Such people do not deserve to have children. They can keep dogs which will give them unlimted love and be happy if they feed it once a day.

I find it strange that looking out of money, position appears to be now a base value. Guys, even during the dowry days, nobody gave their daughters to paupers or below their status. The tambrahm girls have only learned those lessons well, and applying it in their own life to their benefit. If you cannot earn the money or get the position, try to get them to commit to you with charm but not through force or parents or society strictures. This is cowardice.

I wish to end this post with a happy story. A Bengali lady used to work with me and a few years ago, she came by my desk and told me that she was resigning her job. She had asked for 6 months loa which was refused. On querying further this came out:

She is blessed with only one child, a son. Having brought up in Canada in a liberal home, she had no expectation that he will marry a desi girl, let alone a Bengali. The previous year, on a visit to Calcutta he fell in love with a Bengali girl (yes, both were Brahmins for those here to whom this should make a difference). This lass played hard to get. Not interested in a westerner. Wanted a true Bengali. If this young man should have serious intentions on her, they should learn to get to know each other only through Bengali. True enough, our love kissed man, took crash course in Bengali and in 6 months was able to call this girl back in Calcutta and press his suit. Again, as they say, the rest is history.

My Bengali friend, looked upon this coupling as the greatest pleasure left for her in the world, and went to Calcutta to set up the wedding. And I lost in touch with her after that …

Let us, the older folks, learn to understand at life, the problems, issues, loves, loverlorns, expectations, and above all life defining desires of the younger generation through their eyes. The young people of today, I find are much more mature and much more aware of things, than when we were young. I am 60 btw. Give them credit. To draw arbitrary lines based on our prejudice, caste and narrow demands, is demeaning of us. The youngsters definitely do not need this. if the parents do not accede, the young tambram girls are best leaving the abode of birth to a new life. There may be risks, there may be sorrows in their wake, there may be disappoints – but what is life without risk? Every marriage, arranged or loved, is a lottery.

Love not experienced is love lost. I know that for sure, for I am one 60 year old fogey who is such. Thank you.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

reply to # 849.

Dear Mr. Raghy,

Thank you for pointing out that we can never generalize on any issue or behavior.
The world is too complex to allow us to make sweeping statements.

However there will be a majority (excluding the rare exceptions) about whom we can generalize, I suppose.

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

The crazy mail from hayyram has not been deleted.

It still exists in #840.

IF HE WERE ...
a true living example of the tambram boy(?) today,
people will celebrate happily the extinction of the race-
if and when it happens, as foretold by him!

World will be much better off-without a group of such perverted persons!

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Kunjuppu,

Today I came across a lovely quotation which reflects your opinions.

i want to share it with every one!

"Happiness in marriage is entirely a matter of chance."
Jane Austen
V.R.

 

[senthil]

@raghy

We should not forget possibility theories too; when we we look at the possibilty due to majority exposure, caste brahmin girls/boys are exposed to more NB boys/girls. It is a fallacy to think that NB girls don't fall for caste brahmin boys; although most of the caste brahmnin boys are less well todo (they are) than most NB boys (Don't forget, percentage of caste brahmins is in the [COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important]single[/COLOR][/COLOR] digit; so, there can be more well to do NB boys than caste brahmin boys). We are not talking about that side of the story; caste brahmin boys do attract NB girls (Sri.Senthil Sir, I request your opinion on this, please)

I think its wrong.. In most cases, it is the boys who cajole the girls.. the reverse is very very rare.. The brahmin boys from traditional family does not have that skill.. even if they have, they were brought up in a well mannered way, that they will not stoop such low..
Same with other castes which follow high standards of living.. eg: Pillais, mudaliyars etc..

But those castes which have nothing to lose, & those castes which can group together easily, target these Brahmin girls and other soft caste girls..

I belong to kongu vellalar, and we too are facing the same problem.. infact even worse.. there were so many runup cases, that it became a regular flash news for gossiping.. and many of them are targetted.. For eg, the devar guys and other similar caste guys would openly say that they target gounder girls.. In some regions, the vanniar leaders openly declare that any vanniar guy who successfully "madukkufyies" gounder girl, can directly come to him and he will protect them.

In the regions where thiruma group are strong, they openly encourage their guys to target gounder girls..

I will quote a very recent example happened in my area.. the father is a bigshot with around 100cr asset.. his only child, his lovable daughter, studied in an engg college, and there she was successfully cornered by a SC staff who worked there. At one stage, the matter leaked out, and the couple went to police station.. The man who was a big shot, has to beg his daughter there in the police station.. the girl adamantly said, that she will go to that guy.. the inspector said, he cant do anything.. the couple rejoices their success in front of this father.. the father returns back totally shattered..
And within 2 months, the girl could not live with that boy, and returns back to her father..

Now tell me, will that parents ever want to live any more after seeing this?

There were so many such cases.. in my own village, a gounder girl was in love with another caste guy, and when she became pregnant, that guy refused to marry her, stating her parents did not agree..

in another case, a gounder girl ran with a oddar boy, and could not live with him even for a month.. bcoz, the boy's profession was to break stones, and she could not cope up..

Many here live in a utopian world that all lovers ARE genuine, and every love is divine.. the truth is that in most cases, the love is either bcoz of infatuation, or one side targets the girl..

In my college days, there were a dozen love story.. and most of them married now, but with different persons.. one person cajoled a girl for three years and the girl fall at the final year.. and after college, it got broken, and the girl married a different guy .. like wise, another pair, both of them got high paying job in IT field.. the boy married another girl as i saw in the wedding invitation.. his former lover girl is still unmarried..

when i joined my company, there was couple of love affairs freshly started.. and broken bcoz of incompatability or immaturity.. i received the wedding invitation of all of these couples and their lover's name was NOT in the card..


The impact of cinema is so heavy that even those neutral persons are carried away.. Love is not rosy as some people are projecting.. the best example is seen in the marina beaches of chennai..

The most fundamental factor of indian civilization is the personal discipline (or in tamil, ozhukkam) of the female gender.. it is the women who brought up the culture, and everything, and the males were just complementary element.. We can see it ourselves in each of our family.. In the so called traditional family, it is the elderly women who is more vigorous in family discipline..

Today, it is this women folk who were targetted systematically.. The entire media space is brought under complete domination of missionaries and marxists.. by media, i include the film sector too.. by continous secret sponsoring of films that contradict the societal values, that ridicule the society, and which eulogises the western values..

Just compare the films of the black and white days, with the present one.. we can understand the difference..

 

[senthil]

These wretched girls, suppress their feelings, bow their head to consign their lives to someone selected for them, and go through life – lime robots, doing the right thing – but without cheer or fulfillment. Do we want this to our daughters? How can you control a mind? A feeling?

This is too generalised.. are you saying, that all those girls who marry the boy chosen by their parents do not have any cheer or fulfilment?
And what feelings are you talking about? Its true that a person fallen in love lose himself.. but havent we seen many of such intense feelings wither away, either after marriage, or over a period of time?

Man is NOT an individual animal.. he is destined to live as a community as per nature.. and that's why, parents want their children to be married within their community, because after marriage, they will NOT become orphans..

Whether you agree or not.. today, those who have done inter-caste marriage are mostly urban orphans, who have no one to rely.. its true for all castes..

We cannot avoid love feelings from emerging in our daughter or son.. but we as a community can collectively shape their life, in various ways..

It is all well and good to say that the parents spend their money educating the daughters, gave them food, love, accommodation care and now it is payback time for the daughters to marry someone whom dad wishes. What logic is this? did the girls asked to be brought to this world? Is it not the actions of the mother father that caused their birth, their presence here? Do not the parents have the duty to do all the above mentioned parental roles? Is it right for them to expect something in return? That is the worst reason for being a parent. Such people do not deserve to have children. They can keep dogs which will give them unlimted love and be happy if they feed it once a day.

So you are saying, that only parents have the duty and NOT their children.. On those days, the parents gave away their daughter as soon as 18 years is completed.. but today, the parents take extra care, to educate their daughters/sons, which is beyond their basic duty.. ie, parents of the daughters could have easily found a groom and send off their daughters.. but they put in so much effort to earn for their daughter's education..

Imagine.. today, an eggn course costs min 4 lakhs.. even a B.Sc degree costs around 2-3 lakhs.. Most of the brahmin families were salaried persons who rely on this only income.. and every one knows, how much financial stress they would have undergone to fulfill this financial burden of their daughter..

And the reward for all these : the daughters throw away their parents, and run off, leaving their parents to fend for themselves.. in many cases, the parents would have got some bank loans for their daughter's education which they themselves have to pay..

The question is whether are we ready to inculcate these basic human values to the children.. or are we going to allow our sons & daughters to become modern day kamal hasans and gowthamys?

A culture can exist only within a social group.. NOT among group of individuals..

Are we going to allow the next generation to become a cultureless orphans prisoned in the urban centers?

 

[hoover]

from these posts one can easily assume,
1. Brahmin girls should marry nb boys as nb boys care in laws. Is it not just a tread?
2. Its meaning sounds somewhat like that Brahmin boys doesnt take care of their in laws.
3. It can be summed up like as brahmin caste doesnt bear genes of care for in laws they should marry all their girls to nbs.
open your eyes there are a lot nb families who are involved in a lot activities which only can be counted as crimes. Just someone is vegetarian and he is caring his in laws cannot be only measure of goodness. and what about those girls who aqired positions of open catagory seats and left their houses (at that time when they marry ,for instance they have given priority to physical attraction than their emotional ties with their parents) to prosper nb. do these girls take care of their in laws.
Ties and reletions are not tested in prosperity.
Arent we becoming more and more cheap, just leaving our dharma and whatever moral order our dharma tells us. i.e. forbidden varnasankara. for just care of old age. arent we somewhere faulty when we fail to indoctrinate our boys and girls for care of their parents in old age. and ist the fifty percent of our community i.e. women are equally responsible when they fail in bringing up their sons if they are so incapable and bad.
I must say again brahmin girls as brides of nb boys is just a bonus of caste based reservation policy for nb.

 

[kunjuppu]

hoover, i have to take this on just because i wish to clarify my viewpoint from your summary. i can understand your anguish, and also understand your steadfastness to what you believe.

but may i please suggest, that you do not distort the arguements of those who feel that a tambram girl should have the choice of her heart, IF IT SO HAPPENS, just like a tambram boy too. just like all youngsters in this yet to be ideal world. we can make a start, can't we?

from these posts one can easily assume,
1. Brahmin girls should marry nb boys as nb boys care in laws. Is it not just a tread? ]

no sir. there may be as many tambram boys who care for the in laws. the issue should be the quality of the boy and not his caste. bad marriages are not the monopoly of intercaste marriages. i have a few pukka tambram boys cousins, who were scoundrels, beat up their wives, spend their money (& their wife's money too) on booze and other women. one of whom was found drunk on the street by a passing relative and brought home. this about 10 years ago in mylapore chennai. ok?

2. Its meaning sounds somewhat like that Brahmin boys doesnt take care of their in laws.]

i think my answer to #1 answers this. there are scoundrels in all castes. it is upto the girls to use their judgement to separate the wheat from the chaff. parents, these days with so little interactions with their children, are not necessarily the best judges of their wards, or for that matter, potential dils or sils.
i think so, and speak through years of seeing disastrous marriages happen to good girls and gooder boys.

3. It can be summed up like as brahmin caste doesnt bear genes of care for in laws they should marry all their girls to nbs. ]

this unwarranted conclusion sounds based more on bitterness, jealousy and a loser. why don't the tambram take upon a challenge to find wives, instead of sticking to their mother's thalappaas? maybe not because they have been brought up as wimps and eunuched of their self confidence. i feel really sorry for those boys who still have this done to them. these parents are ignorant or foolish, i don't know which? or both?

open your eyes there are a lot nb families who are involved in a lot activities which only can be counted as crimes. Just someone is vegetarian and he is caring his in laws cannot be only measure of goodness. and what about those girls who aqired positions of open catagory seats and left their houses (at that time when they marry ,for instance they have given priority to physical attraction than their emotional ties with their parents) to prosper nb. do these girls take care of their in laws.]

this is villifying 97% or more of the population and to me sounds funny to even read it. there are good people in all communities, and if you cannot accept that, you are going to have a hell of time living in india. this is what being brought up with 'brahmin' values does to your mind. how can you ever have a peace of mind?

Ties and reletions are not tested in prosperity.
Arent we becoming more and more cheap, just leaving our dharma and whatever moral order our dharma tells us. i.e. forbidden varnasankara. for just care of old age. arent we somewhere faulty when we fail to indoctrinate our boys and girls for care of their parents in old age. and ist the fifty percent of our community i.e. women are equally responsible when they fail in bringing up their sons if they are so incapable and bad.
I must say again brahmin girls as brides of nb boys is just a bonus of caste based reservation policy for nb.

wrong buddy. learn to be a good person first. goodness does not discriminate caste or creed. then open up your mind to a wonderful world out there. if you are young, and open your heart, suddenly you have millions more people whom you feel akin, and probably million eligible girls to go out and win over. look at the inner beauty of the girl, her accomplishments, her compatibility, her character, her poise, her structure and NOT HER CASTE. you will find this a better world and you will get better progeny to make india a better land.

earlier, i asked you if you are a tambram, and if you don't mind your age and marital status. because your bitterness is so severe, i should, in the absence of not forthcoming information, that you have been jilted by a few tambram girls. if that be then may i suggest......in a reply post in the future.

as to cheapness, i think, we are actually increasing our enlightenment and discarding unwanted baggages which have been handed down and which made 25% of population, aka as dalits, not even considered humans. in any other country, this would be crime against humanity. no other society barring the new world where africans were bought into slavery, did this happen. except india. this is a shameful episode of our heritage, and the sooner we discard it, it is better for our dharma? let us not go beyond that.

you are talking of indoctination of our boys and girls to submission. i am talking of love and opening of the heart. pure love, if you are not aware, is giving. giving gives fulfilment. those particular nb boys who took care of their inlaws are giving something - not necessarily to the in laws, but to the women they love. do you understand love? i am amazed, i should say, rather reluctantly, at the grossness of such ignorance. there is no hope for people with such strong prejudices.